So I am a relatively new player as this is my first gen I've ever even used showdown, but I am far from new to competitive gaming(I'm a very invested MTG player). I have to say some things I've seen from this community are unsettling, even on the low low ladder(1000-1100) opponents being intentionally toxic as they have amounts of anonymity. In Magic when this occurs we name and shame people and it has reduced the number of these occurrences drastically. While I haven't taken screenshots of everything, I'm going to start and post them here, and I implore you all to do the same to clean things up.
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If you click their name and click three dots you can ignore them and/or report them. To add on, you can take as much time as you want and there's nothing they can really do about it as long as your timer doesn't run out.
But "shaming" users in a forum thread that they will probably never see? This will achieve nothing in the long run.
e: Honestly, I don't think the vast majority of people telling you to move faster on the simulator will EVER even know this thread exists, and only a small portion who does will care, I think.
e: Like..you're comparing an online simulator, to a mostly physical game where people have faces, names, and actual reputations, which is probably why it actually does something.
But "shaming" users in a forum thread that they will probably never see? This will achieve nothing in the long run.
e: Honestly, I don't think the vast majority of people telling you to move faster on the simulator will EVER even know this thread exists, and only a small portion who does will care, I think.
e: Like..you're comparing an online simulator, to a mostly physical game where people have faces, names, and actual reputations, which is probably why it actually does something.
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Ignoring people doesn't fix the problem it just shoves it off to someone else, which honestly isn't a great mindset to have. Calling someone out on the forums isn't just about them seeing it. It is about the community seeing it, their friends seeing it, etc, and those people acting accordingly toward that person to either get them to correct their actions or ostracize them should they choose not to. People complaining about the timer is honestly the least offensive thing I've heard, it was just the point at which I decided to do something about it. Most people who play paper Magic aren't asshole because they don't have than anonymity, but the majority of the callouts come from Magic Online, so there is a clear analog here
That is kind of the thing though, we don't have to live with this, we can do something about it
hi! I also play a bunch of Magic and I think you're looking at this from a poor perspective
Showdown is W A Y different from an LGS. Interactions at game stores are usually a lot more personal; you're sitting face to face, interacting directly in front of a bunch of other people. One bad attitude can ruin an entire event or even drive people away from the store altogether, so calling someone on shitty behavior makes a significant impact. Showdown meanwhile has literal thousands of active users at a time. Being entirely online makes it a far less personal experience, and while a rotten apple can ruin an experience, it also affects a fraction of a percent of the active userbase. Name shaming doesn't even do all that much when someone can just switch usernames and get on with their life, or just count on people not really seeing it. (I can guarantee you that maybe 10% of the people who will battle this person will see your post.)
While some dude in the 1100s might "get away" with it, toxic behavior does frequently get called out within the various subcommunities on Smogon and PS, where it's a lot more likely to impact a significant number of people. It's the sheer volume of Pokemon Showdown that makes this sort of name-n-shame pretty damn ineffective outside of those communities.
Forgive me for my midnight brain dump, and also keep in mind that you can always call in a global staff member (like me!) to deal with situations like these - unlike Modo/Arena, Showdown actually has active moderation staff!Now stop slow playing or I'm calling a judge
Showdown is W A Y different from an LGS. Interactions at game stores are usually a lot more personal; you're sitting face to face, interacting directly in front of a bunch of other people. One bad attitude can ruin an entire event or even drive people away from the store altogether, so calling someone on shitty behavior makes a significant impact. Showdown meanwhile has literal thousands of active users at a time. Being entirely online makes it a far less personal experience, and while a rotten apple can ruin an experience, it also affects a fraction of a percent of the active userbase. Name shaming doesn't even do all that much when someone can just switch usernames and get on with their life, or just count on people not really seeing it. (I can guarantee you that maybe 10% of the people who will battle this person will see your post.)
While some dude in the 1100s might "get away" with it, toxic behavior does frequently get called out within the various subcommunities on Smogon and PS, where it's a lot more likely to impact a significant number of people. It's the sheer volume of Pokemon Showdown that makes this sort of name-n-shame pretty damn ineffective outside of those communities.
Forgive me for my midnight brain dump, and also keep in mind that you can always call in a global staff member (like me!) to deal with situations like these - unlike Modo/Arena, Showdown actually has active moderation staff!
not entirely sure why you think shaming someone would make them any less hostile towards you and other users; if anything, it just further promotes this kind of behavior and comes off as an attack against them. as other users said, it's significantly easier to use the report feature on PS! or the ignore one if you don't care to fill out a help ticket.
They can either realize that what they are doing is wrong, or leave a public community as they clearly aren't fit to interact with people. Either way it is a win. Honestly I'm not sure why there are some many toxic sympathizers, do you really want people like this existing in the community, it seems realy bad for both community health and growth.
Its not about whether they get away with it or not, right? It is about taking a stand as a community against people that are blemishes upon the community as a whole. Is it a good look for a community to defend these people, which is what happens when you say things like, "oh it won't do anything, or just ignore them". If there is a better place to handle this I'd love to know, but honestly allowing and sympathizing this kind of behavior is something that will ultimately be a net negative on the community.
it's not a matter of sympathizing with them; it's a matter of understanding how to actually address the issue. PS! is designed in such a way so that we can handle troublesome users without going through a route as flawed as this--one that doesn't end up achieving nothing.
I also find it rather interesting you're sorta just labeling people as "toxic sympathizers" just because they disagree with your take on how to handle them; confrontation and disagreement are normal parts of a discussion, no?
I actually quite agree with the sentiment you have here (in general, maybe not this specific case) but this isn't something that's going to take off because it's not practical. I doubt the overlap between people on smogon and ps is high and it's so easy to change accounts on showdown that the likelihood that anyone will notice/remember/care about the "shaming" is extraordinarily low.
You're right though that we can do something about it. You can report extremely inappropriate behavior but you can also lead by example. You can only control your own behavior so don't get baited and be kind and gracious instead. Why say anything in that second screenshot? You're basically asking him to insult you.
You're right though that we can do something about it. You can report extremely inappropriate behavior but you can also lead by example. You can only control your own behavior so don't get baited and be kind and gracious instead. Why say anything in that second screenshot? You're basically asking him to insult you.
I haven't seen a real suggestion other than ignore/report them. That fixes that instance of the problem, and ignores the underlying problem that leads to these symptoms, and not having an interest in finding and fixing(or removing) the root problem is the same as supporting it. Inaction is action for the problem. I agree that disagreement is part of normal discussion, and I'm not directly labeling anyone, but it does seem that the attitude of the community is, "yeah that is just a thing that happens, just ignore it", rather than, "this is a problem, we should do something about it"
It is kind of odd to be honest, as someone who is new, I find more of my opponents are alt accounts than other new players, so people lose the mindset that there are in fact new players playing in the bracket where you would expect to find new players. That being said, players like this seem to not care that their opponents are new and might need longer to think things through or do calcs or whatever with their time, and instead of offering to help instead look to tear down
The problem is this: most of these people are barely even "part of a community", they have no reputation to care about, no smogon account, they can probably could just make another username, so they have nothing but one thing to lose: the account they are using. The underlying problem is they have anonymity, this cannot be solved.
Therefore, the best solution is simple, it's to warn them or ban them and threaten to remove the one thing you have to take from them - the ability to play, show other people if they don't treat their opponents with respect, they also won't be able to play on the simulator. And..that's what's done if you report them.
Therefore, the best solution is simple, it's to warn them or ban them and threaten to remove the one thing you have to take from them - the ability to play, show other people if they don't treat their opponents with respect, they also won't be able to play on the simulator. And..that's what's done if you report them.
Well, nobody else is saying it, and someone has to be the one, so fuck it. Guess I better live up to that firebot Poketest that said I was a Weavile who doesn't care about other people's feelings or whatever.
Look, my dude, if someone bitching about taking too long to move on Pokemon Showdown affects you harshly enough to make this thread, then maybe the internet isn't the best place for you. Believe me, your opponent may be a bit of an asshole but I've seen much, much worse. This barely even skims the surface of toxic, not just on Showdown but on the Internet as a whole. People fucking suck, and anonymity gives them a blank check to fucking suck even more. All the community browbeating in the world isn't going to fix that. You complain that nobody is giving you solutions outside of ignoring them, but that's because there are no solutions outside of that.
You seem to think that if we condemn behavior like this that somehow the people who perpetrate it are going to magically see the error in their ways, or crumble to dust like Sauron or something. This is naive. The reality is 95% of the douchebags you run into on the ladder will never see this thread, and those who do won't give a shit.
TL;DR Life is short, futile, and meaningless. Don't make it any worse by concerning yourself with the bitchings of some asshole on Showdown. Grow a thicker skin.
Look, my dude, if someone bitching about taking too long to move on Pokemon Showdown affects you harshly enough to make this thread, then maybe the internet isn't the best place for you. Believe me, your opponent may be a bit of an asshole but I've seen much, much worse. This barely even skims the surface of toxic, not just on Showdown but on the Internet as a whole. People fucking suck, and anonymity gives them a blank check to fucking suck even more. All the community browbeating in the world isn't going to fix that. You complain that nobody is giving you solutions outside of ignoring them, but that's because there are no solutions outside of that.
You seem to think that if we condemn behavior like this that somehow the people who perpetrate it are going to magically see the error in their ways, or crumble to dust like Sauron or something. This is naive. The reality is 95% of the douchebags you run into on the ladder will never see this thread, and those who do won't give a shit.
TL;DR Life is short, futile, and meaningless. Don't make it any worse by concerning yourself with the bitchings of some asshole on Showdown. Grow a thicker skin.
The only way to solve the “underlying problem” is to completely rewrite the unwritten rules of anonymity on the internet. Naming and shaming CharizardDude777’s throw-away alt on a forum he almost certainly doesn’t read isn’t going to help anyone, and it isn’t going to suddenly result in a paradigm shift for the individuals who think anonymity makes it ok to be toxic when they have almost nothing to lose. And even if it turns out he does read the non-Pokémon forum on a competitive Pokémon website, a thread like this is more likely to feed this sort of behaviour than it is to discourage it.
The reason people are saying to report+ignore these users is because it is the only effective thing that can be done when you come across obnoxious users. The only way to teach people over an anonymous, limited-resource platform like this is to give them a stern warning that their behaviour isn’t acceptable and to remove their privileges if they continue to be toxic. A lot of the time this is behaviour is a matter of some twat just needing to grow up, and in cases where people are incapable of growing up, they will likely end up being permanently banned.
Anyway, this isn’t the place for something like this. If you have suggestions for how processes could be improved or any questions about the best way to deal with any specific instances, I suggest you contact PS! global staff.
The reason people are saying to report+ignore these users is because it is the only effective thing that can be done when you come across obnoxious users. The only way to teach people over an anonymous, limited-resource platform like this is to give them a stern warning that their behaviour isn’t acceptable and to remove their privileges if they continue to be toxic. A lot of the time this is behaviour is a matter of some twat just needing to grow up, and in cases where people are incapable of growing up, they will likely end up being permanently banned.
Anyway, this isn’t the place for something like this. If you have suggestions for how processes could be improved or any questions about the best way to deal with any specific instances, I suggest you contact PS! global staff.
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