(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Dark straight up cooks Psychic either way. They don't have a ghost of a chance besides clicking Dynamicpunch and praying.

Special Ghost and Physical Dark feel just right in Gens 2 and 3. The only reason they didn't make Dark physical from the jump was for it to not completely overshadow Ghost.

Ironically, the only reason Ghost was a physical type to begin with was... Lick.

Bad decisions related to moronic artifacts.

Speaking of those...
View attachment 668023View attachment 668022View attachment 668024

I hate Experience Groups!!! :row:

Nah experience groups are definitely something they got right. (haven’t checked every Pokemon’s group but there definitely needed to be differences between them)
 
Before we had the buffed Exp Share, having different experience groups basically just meant that a) slower-growing Pokemon would see significantly more use in random route battles and b) the game would be rendered arbitrarily harder/grindier depending on how many slower-growing mons you had on your team. Experience groups are only loosely correlated with Pokemon strength, so it wasn't even really a 'more effort = greater reward' thing.

With the buffed (and now mandatory) Exp Share mechanics, fast-growing Pokemon can barely be used in regular battles without getting overlevelled relative to the rest of your team or requiring candy use to catch everything else up (which often just leads to the whole team being overlevelled). It's tough if you want to raise your team evenly but don't want exp management to be its own tedious task that you have to micromanage.

It makes sense to want variety in how it feels to raise different Pokemon, but I don't think experience groups do that in a way that's fun or interesting.
 
IMO the correct way to deal with leveling right now:

1. Exp. Share is still mandatory. In almost every modern RPG it is standard and non-optional to have every party member gain exp. We want to balance around one core experience.

2. We bring back stricter overleveling exp curves for being a higher level Pokemon than the opponent. This is not a level cap, but a soft level curve cap; this will be calculated by the Pokemon that defeated the enemy Pokemon, encouraging using a variety of Pokemon even when fighting fodder trainers- bringing back Exp Optimization in singleplayer while being consistent with Exp. All; if you want max Exp you need to rotate your party more.

PKMN 1: Level 50, PKMN 2: Level 45, PKMN 3: Level 47, OPP PKMN: Level 48; using PKMN 2 or 3 will gain more exp. If you continuously use PKMN 1 it will get above most opposing Pokemon and therefore the rest of the party will decline in Exp growth.

3. The Exp. All will have a lower base fraction of how much exp is earned.

4. After the player has become Champion, the level curve will be disabled to allow for faster grinding, as levels do not matter as much anymore.
 
Before we had the buffed Exp Share, having different experience groups basically just meant that a) slower-growing Pokemon would see significantly more use in random route battles and b) the game would be rendered arbitrarily harder/grindier depending on how many slower-growing mons you had on your team. Experience groups are only loosely correlated with Pokemon strength, so it wasn't even really a 'more effort = greater reward' thing.

With the buffed (and now mandatory) Exp Share mechanics, fast-growing Pokemon can barely be used in regular battles without getting overlevelled relative to the rest of your team or requiring candy use to catch everything else up (which often just leads to the whole team being overlevelled). It's tough if you want to raise your team evenly but don't want exp management to be its own tedious task that you have to micromanage.

It makes sense to want variety in how it feels to raise different Pokemon, but I don't think experience groups do that in a way that's fun or interesting.

I disagree on this. Exp groups broadly correspond with strength but as you say, they don't always. Sometimes a Pokemon needs more time and/or effort to raise up, and that's something which I personally enjoy when using a full team of six in a playthrough - especially when I'm putting other restrictions on myself - some team members will always need more investment than others who'll skate by (and that goes for things like TM access and vitamins too).

Pokemon has always done the "junk rare" trope quite well - uncommonness does not correlate with strength. If it did, I think the games would feel very formulaic. There are Pokemon you can catch right at the start of the game who'll become top-tier bosses and Pokemon you can catch five minutes before the Elite Four who'll play like garbage. That's something I think we (as people a touch more into the series than most) sometimes overlook: the uncertainty of that can be part of the fun for a lot of players. It was certainly jarring for me when I first discovered the tier system and learned that my beloved initial Pearl team (Mr Mime, Toxicroak, Bastiodon, Vespiquen, Weavile) wasn't all that from a competitive point of view.

Like from a cursory scan of the species in the Slow experience group you've absolutely got some Pokemon who feel jarringly out of place alongside legendaries and pseudo-legendaries: Abomasnow? Aggron? Sharpedo? Manectric? Mantine? Contrariwise there's some better-than-average Pokemon in the Erratic experience group: Milotic, Altaria, Rampardos, Hydrapple.

I'm not saying I'd defend this position with my life or anything, but I like that experience groups (and species characteristics more broadly) aren't completely cut-and-dry. It does make the game world feel a bit more... alive, in a sense. Because it's not always a straightforward case of "this Pokemon is good so it takes more time to raise" and "this Pokemon is weak so it grows more quickly". It is a lot of the time, but not always.
 
Like from a cursory scan of the species in the Slow experience group you've absolutely got some Pokemon who feel jarringly out of place alongside legendaries and pseudo-legendaries: Abomasnow? Aggron? Sharpedo? Manectric? Mantine? Contrariwise there's some better-than-average Pokemon in the Erratic experience group: Milotic, Altaria, Rampardos, Hydrapple.
This is a fun set of examples to pick because you're treating the Erratic group as the fastest group (understandably, since its L100 experience total is by far the lowest) but it's cumulatively the slowest experience group until Level 38 and the second-slowest until Level 46, which is usually a mid-to-lategame level for an actual playthrough, i.e. the only time growth rates actually matter. Stronger Pokemon arguably make more sense in the Erratic group because it's a nightmare raising them for half the game and then they accelerate hugely towards the end.

I totally agree that it's good to make Pokemon harder to raise in ways that aren't directly proportional to the 'payoff' of sticking with them. Low base stats, awkward movepools, a distant evolution level... these can be fun challenges to work around, even if the Pokemon doesn't become a powerhouse after all your effort. I honestly don't even mind grinding nearly as much as most people seem to! But experience groups just don't interest me as a way of communicating this concept. They're an extremely blunt instrument, wielded poorly by Game Freak.
 
This is a fun set of examples to pick because you're treating the Erratic group as the fastest group (understandably, since its L100 experience total is by far the lowest) but it's cumulatively the slowest experience group until Level 38 and the second-slowest until Level 46, which is usually a mid-to-lategame level for an actual playthrough, i.e. the only time growth rates actually matter. Stronger Pokemon arguably make more sense in the Erratic group because it's a nightmare raising them for half the game and then they accelerate hugely towards the end.

I totally agree that it's good to make Pokemon harder to raise in ways that aren't directly proportional to the 'payoff' of sticking with them. Low base stats, awkward movepools, a distant evolution level... these can be fun challenges to work around, even if the Pokemon doesn't become a powerhouse after all your effort. I honestly don't even mind grinding nearly as much as most people seem to! But experience groups just don't interest me as a way of communicating this concept. They're an extremely blunt instrument, wielded poorly by Game Freak.

Yes, I was mixing up my groups. Meant to use Fast as the example set.
 
My issue with the EXP groups is most of the time they almost seem assigned at random or just based on a cursory thought for the mon. Erratic being slow until the mid-40's sounds textbook for the Pseudo-Legendaries and "pseudo-pseudos" as I call them (stuff like Axew or Trapinch which don't meet the category requirements but have similar progressions), being that the point is they're weak and slow but reward you with a power house once they evolve near or just after that range, and yet the closest Pokemon to that progression style in the group is Feebas-to-Milotic, which isn't a level based Evolution regardless
 
Back in Gen 1, the EXP Group assignments made sense and when you look at which Pokemon were assigned to which EXP Group, there was a clear deliberate thought behind which Pokemon were given which EXP Group.

Among the original 151, there were four EXP Groups: Fast, Medium Fast, Medium Slow, and Slow.

Medium Fast, which was a standard cubic function, and used a similar cubic formula as Fast and Slow but was the "medium" between the three, was the default EXP Group that just about every ordinary 2-stage/single stage Pokemon had, plus the Caterpie and Weedle lines. Most of them weren't intended to really be used as party members and more as enemies to be fought either as common wild mons or Trainer enemies, but they were nonetheless given a "normal" EXP curve if they were used.

Fast was given strictly to the Clefairy line, Jigglypuff line, and Chansey. The former two were rare encounters who made rather peculiar party members: they weren't particularly powerful in a vacuum and had the cost-benefit of being stone evolutions, where they could evolve early and lose the ability to learn moves naturally or evolve later and learn moves then evolve, but in that case they would be harder to raise since Clefairy and Jigglypuff aren't that powerful, so they would have to be switched out and share the EXP repeatedly, and having a faster EXP growth rate allowed them to still keep up in spite of receiving less EXP in a battle overall. Meanwhile Clefable and Wigglytuff would get a bit ahead in levels to help them stay relatively strong in spite of their rather average stats. Chansey was a cleric who is meant to play support and thus naturally switches in and out and shares EXP with teammates, so the fast EXP curve helped it level at a good pace in spite of that for the same reason.

Slow was assigned to basically any Pokemon who had a BST that was 430 or above...barring the Eeveelutions. Stuff like Pinsir, Starmie, Cloyster, Snorlax, Arcanine, Tentacruel, Exeggutor, Rhydon, Aerodactyl, Gyarados, etc. Either they were hard to raise and high reward (Magikarp->Gyarados being the prime example) or really strong single stage Pokemon off the bat that had their high power level balanced out by leveling up at a slower rate so they stay a bit behind in level so they're not that above the rest of the team. The epitome examples are the legendary birds and Dragonite, the former three being powerhouse pre-promotes at Level 50 who were powerful off the bat, while Dragonite was high investment, high reward and the slow EXP group made Dratini->Dragonair->Dragonite a long and grueling journey to the end result combined with the high evolution levels.

And then Medium Slow was basically assigned to any three-stage evolution line that wasn't Butterfree, Beedrill, or Dragonite. The starters and just about every other three-stage line has this group, most likely because all of them are intended for the final form to become a proper party member to be used in the game.

That was basically the line of thought in Gen 1. Gen 2 was a bit more arbitrary but that roster is connected to Gen 1, and those Pokemon were designed as "RPG Mascot" characters, if that makes sense.

Later generations were a lot more inconsistent and arbitrary on EXP Groups though, even if there were still some consistencies like most three-stage lines being assigned "Medium Slow". But largely they've dropped the Gen 1 line of thought in terms of Pokemon designs and this also applies to newer mons and which groups they're assigned, and the concept now feels very dated. Especially since Gen 3 which introduced the Erratic and Fluctuating EXP groups, and those feel very gimmicky since their whole thing is that their levelling rate is inconsistent over the course of Level 1 to 100, but there's little thought as to which Pokemon are assigned those groups (and they kinda stopped using them after their debut generation anyway).
 
Genuinely feels like I’m writing a post from 10 years ago right now, but I’m going through ORAS and decided to Dexnav a Zubat to have it at a higher level and/or an egg move and GOD I forgot how miserable they made this feature in caves. I’m sure part of it is the narrow ‘corridors’ in a lot of caves messing with the needed space for the moving around gimmick, but in that case I really wish they’d just made a lot of the caves wider. They changed Granite Cave a lot to begin with so I don’t think that’s unreasonable either
 
So I’ve always kinda viewed Jynx as part of a little group with Electabuzz and Magmar, though they aren’t really. I remember playing Silver (not on the first playthru obviously but on others) being very disappointed at Electabuzz being locked to Kanto, whilst Magmar and Jynx were readily available. I also was not a fan of them moving Magmar to Mt. Silver in Crystal.
 
So I’ve always kinda viewed Jynx as part of a little group with Electabuzz and Magmar, though they aren’t really. I remember playing Silver (not on the first playthru obviously but on others) being very disappointed at Electabuzz being locked to Kanto, whilst Magmar and Jynx were readily available. I also was not a fan of them moving Magmar to Mt. Silver in Crystal.
they inflicted it on us by giving them baby pre-evos with the same evolution level! and to rub salt on the encounter table wound, they then shamelessly threw jynx to the wolves after the controversy!! I AM OWED THE JYNX EVO THAT CLEARLY WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. now that regional forms exist i 100% need a regional jynx to be created and then evolve.
 
In Gen 1 at least I kinda don't really get the impression that Jynx was intended to be part of a trio with Electabuzz and Magmar back in RGB. Jynx always had a lower BST than Electabuzz and Magmar, at a mere 340 while Electabuzz and Magmar had an equal 395 BST in Gen 1.

Electabuzz and Magmar have similar names in Japanese, Electabuzz is Erebuu (エレブー), while Magmar is Buubaa (ブーバー). and they were version exclusives in Red and Green, Electabuzz in Red and Magmar in Green, with both being rare spawns in certain post-Surf dungeons and both being single-stage Pokemon who had decent mixed attacking stats on both sides.

Jynx meanwhile always struck me as more of a counterpart to Mr. Mime than to Electabuzz and Magmar. They are both single-stage Psychic-types with a BST of 340 in Gen 1 and are both exclusively obtained via an in-game trade. They are also both eerily humanoid. Mr. Mime didn't get a baby pre-evo in Gen 2, but it did get one in Gen 4 in the form of Mime Jr., and there's still ultimately parity between them there. That parity showed itself again in USUM where Dexio and Sina each use one of the pair apiece, Dexio using Mime Jr and Sina using Smoochum. Even now Jynx and Mr. Mime's BSTs are closer at 455 and 460 respectively, and post-Special split both got a 100+ stat value but Jynx got it in Special Attack while Mr. Mime got it in Special Defense, there being a dichotomy there.

Idk I just feel like Jynx has always been Mr. Mime's counterpart from the beginning and in the present day they still have some parity between them in a way.
 
they inflicted it on us by giving them baby pre-evos with the same evolution level! and to rub salt on the encounter table wound, they then shamelessly threw jynx to the wolves after the controversy!! I AM OWED THE JYNX EVO THAT CLEARLY WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. now that regional forms exist i 100% need a regional jynx to be created and then evolve.

A regional form of Jynx that's just a very plain-looking Caucasian woman in a very simple white dress, nothing to see here
 
A regional form of Jynx that's just a very plain-looking Caucasian woman in a very simple white dress, nothing to see here
Ironically, things like this is why I don't see them ever messing with Jynx itself, neither with evolutions nor regional forms.

It's a pokemon that already was at some point object of a controversy (due to it very obviously representing a cartoonized and overproportioned black woman, remember this was 1990 when "politically correct" didnt exist).
Last thing it needs is a whitewashing controversy on top of it.
 
That's Gardevoir.

Smoochum is Johtonian Ralts (or, chicken-and-egg, Ralts is Hoennian Smoochum). I like it.

Ironically, things like this is why I don't see them ever messing with Jynx itself, neither with evolutions nor regional forms.

It's a pokemon that already was at some point object of a controversy (due to it very obviously representing a cartoonized and overproportioned black woman, remember this was 1990 when "politically correct" didnt exist).
Last thing it needs is a whitewashing controversy on top of it.

Yeah realistically Jynx ain't ever getting anything. No Mega, no Gigantamax, no evolutions (though weirdly there was that datamined Jynx cry in one of the games that people speculated was a potential new form or evolution. Wonder what that was about)
 
Smoochum is Johtonian Ralts (or, chicken-and-egg, Ralts is Hoennian Smoochum). I like it.



Yeah realistically Jynx ain't ever getting anything. No Mega, no Gigantamax, no evolutions (though weirdly there was that datamined Jynx cry in one of the games that people speculated was a potential new form or evolution. Wonder what that was about)
It was definitely for a scrapped Mega Evolution, it had the same modulation on it as all the other Mega cries.
Why it was left over in Home's data who knows, but Home had a few weirdo left overs over the years.

Why it was scrapped, well, probably because it's Jynx
 
In Gen 1 at least I kinda don't really get the impression that Jynx was intended to be part of a trio with Electabuzz and Magmar back in RGB. Jynx always had a lower BST than Electabuzz and Magmar, at a mere 340 while Electabuzz and Magmar had an equal 395 BST in Gen 1.

Electabuzz and Magmar have similar names in Japanese, Electabuzz is Erebuu (エレブー), while Magmar is Buubaa (ブーバー). and they were version exclusives in Red and Green, Electabuzz in Red and Magmar in Green, with both being rare spawns in certain post-Surf dungeons and both being single-stage Pokemon who had decent mixed attacking stats on both sides.

Jynx meanwhile always struck me as more of a counterpart to Mr. Mime than to Electabuzz and Magmar. They are both single-stage Psychic-types with a BST of 340 in Gen 1 and are both exclusively obtained via an in-game trade. They are also both eerily humanoid. Mr. Mime didn't get a baby pre-evo in Gen 2, but it did get one in Gen 4 in the form of Mime Jr., and there's still ultimately parity between them there. That parity showed itself again in USUM where Dexio and Sina each use one of the pair apiece, Dexio using Mime Jr and Sina using Smoochum. Even now Jynx and Mr. Mime's BSTs are closer at 455 and 460 respectively, and post-Special split both got a 100+ stat value but Jynx got it in Special Attack while Mr. Mime got it in Special Defense, there being a dichotomy there.

Idk I just feel like Jynx has always been Mr. Mime's counterpart from the beginning and in the present day they still have some parity between them in a way.
I think Jynx as of Gens 1-3 was supposed to be both a Mr. Mime counterpart and a member of the "Oni Punch Trio" with Electabuzz and Magmar. Since I think there was an unused Gen 1 pokemon called Buu who was an ice yeti, which was originally seemed to serve as the original third member of the Oni Punch Trio, but was scrapped for some reason. Maybe due to hardware limitations or some design reason. Either case the role was given to Jynx despite it's pairing obvious pairing with Mr. Mime. It being moved to Seafoam Island in Pokemon Blue (Japanese Version) and the other Oni Punch Trio members being trade locked, while Mr. Mime staying as a In-game Trade seems to support the role change.

Despite Jynx not being made for the role of a "Oni Punch Trio" member, I honestly love it's inclusion in it. Since Electabuzz already filled the "physicaly" strong role, it isn't that upsetting for Buu to be dropped in favor of Jynx who fills a cool trio archetype of Support/Brute/Ranged visually design wise (Witch/Tiger/Fire-Spitter).

If Jynx were given something, I would honestly prefer an evolution over a mega. Since the prospect of having an elderly hag evolution for Jynx would be so dope. It could take inspiration of the trope of "Mother Witches" which would complete the Baby/Adult/Elderly dynamic of it's evolution line.
 
It was definitely for a scrapped Mega Evolution, it had the same modulation on it as all the other Mega cries.
Why it was left over in Home's data who knows, but Home had a few weirdo left overs over the years.

Why it was scrapped, well, probably because it's Jynx
I mean, we know from the leaked beta builds that SwSh had Megas pre-dexit, maybe they were actually going to add new ones as well originally?
 
Honestly, a mega Jynx would always bother me simply because of Electivire and Magmortar. I hate the later, but I also would rather have parity (is that the English word...?)

Nowadays I would say there is no reason to avoid Jynx, specially since the original idea just happened to be racist for a different culture...but at the same time, just as Worldie said, people would probably find a way to consider a new evo/form/whatever whitewashing in some way. Yeah, they are probably never touching her again huh.

That being said, its amusing to me the cry got as far as Home. I know they apparently reuse their code a lot, but still.
Considering there were no new Megas in SM and SWSH focusing on Dynamax this seems incredibly unlikely to me unless there was a drastic change of plans
Yeah I don't see it either. Specially with how much SM tried to give the message of Z-Moves already been better (the infamous dex entries, Colress himself implying they may be superior).
 
Back
Top