(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[R_N]

Yeah I don't see it either. Specially with how much SM tried to give the message of Z-Moves already been better (the infamous dex entries, Colress himself implying they may be superior).

I don't think that was meant to be the message. The dex entries line up with supplemental material from before SM and Colress brings it up more as a passing hypothesis on bringing out more potential than the mega ring.

He seems similarly interested in Dynamax (& megas, for that matter) looking at his events in Pokemon Masters, so I'm guessing he's just always looking at super mechanics.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Nowadays I would say there is no reason to avoid Jynx, specially since the original idea just happened to be racist for a different culture...but at the same time, just as Worldie said, people would probably find a way to consider a new evo/form/whatever whitewashing in some way. Yeah, they are probably never touching her again huh.

That being said, its amusing to me the cry got as far as Home. I know they apparently reuse their code a lot, but still.

Oh I don't think anyone would make a big stink over it either, we're just using excessively risk-averse corpo logic. Remember, this is the same franchise that still won't use the Porygon line in animation over an incident that happened when Bill Clinton was president

Yeah I don't see it either. Specially with how much SM tried to give the message of Z-Moves already been better (the infamous dex entries, Colress himself implying they may be superior).

I think an aspect of Megas that got lost in translation through their implementation in the main series games is that using the forms requires an extremely strong trainer-Pokemon bond or else they lose control and go berserk, which I am 99% sure is what the Alola dex entries were alluding to. Both the XYZ anime and the PMD titles that included them ran with this idea. Like I said though, this was not conveyed in mainline gameplay at all and the dex entries don't really make the distinction so I don't blame people for not getting it.

Speaking of Kalos and to return to the topic of this thread: I can't find it now but in the week of Z-A's reveal someone made an MMD of Complete Zygarde dancing over Kyurem and Ho-oh who were lying on the floor in defeat. This video was so close to greatness but it got on my nerves because it used Driftveil City's theme as the soundtrack instead of, like, the XY Boutique theme or something.

 

[CPU]

In Gen 1 at least I kinda don't really get the impression that Jynx was intended to be part of a trio with Electabuzz and Magmar back in RGB. Jynx always had a lower BST than Electabuzz and Magmar, at a mere 340 while Electabuzz and Magmar had an equal 395 BST in Gen 1.

Electabuzz and Magmar have similar names in Japanese, Electabuzz is Erebuu (エレブー), while Magmar is Buubaa (ブーバー). and they were version exclusives in Red and Green, Electabuzz in Red and Magmar in Green, with both being rare spawns in certain post-Surf dungeons and both being single-stage Pokemon who had decent mixed attacking stats on both sides.

In prototype builds of Red and Green, a backsprite that resembles Jynx seems to have had the (tentative?) name of "Buu." Quoting from Helix Chamber:

52 (Buu?) – You can say a lot about this one right away. Its design is sure to bring up some… conversations. The missing ‘Ice Punch Yokai’, and possibly Jynx’s male counterpart, MissingNo. 52 is very unfortunate. We think it was inspired by “Woo”, a similar yeti-like kaiju with a dark face from Ultraman. Woo was actually a female of its species, which may explain the nature of Jynx, and perhaps also the reason for 52’s removal. As a bonus, if its name is really “Buu” (seen in the Tajiri Manga poll as a name on the ballot), it’s an obvious play on “Woo” – and it stands between “Elebuu” and “Buuber” in the index, bridging the names of the trio. If there’s anything that we’ve learned from this, it’s that the Game Freak staff adored Ultraman.

As alluded to in the quote, it would have fit in as the Ice Yokai/Oni to Electabuzz and Magmar's Electric and Fire (remember that the only elemental types originally conceived were Fire, Electric, and Ice).

 

[R_N]

I assume that, just from their rough placements, that Jynx & "Buu" might have coexisted at some point. It wouldn't surprise me if Jynx was originally just a pure Psychic type. There's nothing about the design that really says "Ice", but "vaguely humanoid weirdo" fits in with other Psychics just fine.

Then, for whatever reason (guess they just didnt like the design?), decided to axe Buu but:

• Still wanted another Ice type. There were only 4 others in Gen 1 by the end
• Specifically wanted a *humanoid* Ice type. The other ice types are a clam, a turtle dinosaur, a seal, and a bird.
• Probably still wanted something to use Ice Punch as STAB so it wasn't just Hitmonchan

So you start looking at the humanoid designs that the staff likes. Jynx probably got to stick around because they thought it was funny and distinct design wise (& indeed, maybe they did think it paired well with Mr Mime who even though is the neutral sounding "Barrierd" in Japan still has a relatively masculine design) but there's no getting around that it would be another humanoid pure psychic type. So let's make it stand out by giving it the Ice type and now it can use Ice Punch. And as a little gameplay "extra", it becomes an Ice Type you can get before the others thanks to being a trade.

 

[Kurona]

I think it's a bit of a shame that Drifloon is a VERY rare Pokémon in DPPt and their remakes, but this is never touched on at all beyond that. It and/or Drifblim is a fairly common spawn in any game the family appears in, and then bizarrely Legends Arceus is SWARMING with the things. Perhaps the implication in the latter is that they started dying out as Sinnoh became more populated; like how you don't see Kleavor or Wyrdeer or Paras in the region anymore? But I dunno, a little piece of dialogue here or there would have been nice. I don't need Drifloon to be a 3% spawn or a once-a-week type of thing, but it's just always felt odd that it should be so common given how it was in its debut

 

[pika pal]

Oh I don't think anyone would make a big stink over it either, we're just using excessively risk-averse corpo logic. Remember, this is the same franchise that still won't use the Porygon line in animation over an incident that happened when Bill Clinton was president

I think an aspect of Megas that got lost in translation through their implementation in the main series games is that using the forms requires an extremely strong trainer-Pokemon bond or else they lose control and go berserk, which I am 99% sure is what the Alola dex entries were alluding to. Both the XYZ anime and the PMD titles that included them ran with this idea. Like I said though, this was not conveyed in mainline gameplay at all and the dex entries don't really make the distinction so I don't blame people for not getting it.

To be fair, unlike Jynx which was "only" a controversy in one part of the world because of an unfortunate coincidence: my understanding is Jynx is based on a Yokai, and its design was essentially a floating face on empty space, rather than a pure black head (for comparison, look at something like Final Fantasy's modern take on the Black Mage design like Vivi). Evidently the sprite artists conveyed that poorly and then the anime exacerbated the imagery even worse. TO BE CLEAR this is not me saying the reaction was unwarranted, but that it was a cascade of bad coincidences hitting a critical mass up to redesigning Jynx.

Porygon by comparison didn't simply offend people, it is associated with an episode that caused legitimate physical harm to viewers in the franchise's early days, which is a much bigger stink globally to try and shake off. I can certainly see suits that would think Porygon is a much bigger "stay away" matter than Jynx is even after knowing the history of both controversies.


On the Mega aspect, this would also be congruent with how most of the "Super" gimmicks are depicted as disastrous is allowed to go unchecked or unfocused with a trainer's guidance (Dynamax spots going amok in SwSh, Tera Mons and Raids are considered dangerous in SV), but the Dex didn't convey that these behaviors are specific to wild instances of the Megas, on top of focusing heavily on physical aspects that would implicitly occur regardless (like Glalie's Jaw). I can believe that was the idea but the Dex entries feel like they leave out information rather than poorly explain it when approached from this perspective.

Even with Z-moves, the morally dubious nature of them can be considered in USUM where the stones used for the Power Rings and Z-Crystals are chipped off pieces of the injured Necrozma (imagine in Mega terms if Key/Mega Stones had to be made from shards broken off a Diancie), which kind of raises some concerns about using them like this even if the Z-move users aren't in pain themselves. USUM goes out of its way to establish both that Necrozma is in constant (and during the story, maddening) pain that those pieces relieve it of even slightly, which would suggest rather than using them for sport and festivals, the moral/pragmatic thing to do is gather and return them so that the Light-Eater doesn't try devouring the universe to stop itself from aching for a bit.

All this to say the simplest explanation is that TPC really doesn't think about their world building as long as they have something marketable now or to move onto in its place.

Legends Z-A will be how we see the mechanic since it's by FAR the most in-focus Megas as a concept have been since Gen 6 (as in they discuss the idea being part of the world instead of "Here's some energy/rocks so you can use them on pure gameplay").

 

[Samtendo09]

Yeah I don't see it either. Specially with how much SM tried to give the message of Z-Moves already been better (the infamous dex entries, Colress himself implying they may be superior).

Colress implying that Z-Moves are superior to a temproary but powerful form of a Pokémon? As in, a powerful but one-time nuke vs a powerful form that remains for the rest of the battle?

Even if unevolved Pokémon can use Z-Moves, I find it hard to believe that Z-Moves are superior to Mega Evolution in terms of power unless he implies something else about Z-Moves.

That’s like thinking that Professor Oak or anyone familiar with Kalos / Hoenn consider Dynamax and Gigantamax superior to Mega Evolution just because Dynamax doesn’t bring suffering to the trainer’s own Pokémon… sure, there’s nothing in SwSh that said about “Dynamax causing strains on Pokémon” but still.

If Mega Evolution have a notable downsides like the undesirable effects without the so-called strong bond between the Pokémon and their Trainers as early as XY, I would believe him. But that ain’t the case.

 

[R_N]

I'm going to be blunt, I do not for a moment believe Jynx is meant to be a yukionna.
Even without my "it was made ice type later" theory, the yukionna is generally closer in design to, well, Froslass. The kimono, the lean appearence, the icey attributes, the ghostly apparition.
Not Jynx, which is kind of squat, wearing a more modern style dress, has platinum blonde hair and a blank wall eyed face. The dex doesn't talk anything about the usual yukionna things either.
It's like the idea that it might be based on specific described depictions of notable vikings, which oh my god if we had a viking based humanoid Pokemon in Gen 1 buddy I do not think for a moment we would get one that would go with that design.

Every alternate explanation of Jynx just feels like trying anything and everything to make the design not be a very bad depiction of gyaru.
Gyaru fits even more with how Jynx's dex goes too. The idea of her swaying her hips seductively hypnotically and saying babbling nonsense would fit perfectly with her blank stare as a weird, frankly kind of hateful, satire of what was probably a popular trend among teenage-to-young-adult women of the time. An american version of Jynx would probably be akin to making fun of the Valley Girl archetype or maybe a classic Mean Girl situation.

Though I do think a would-be Jynx addition (a mega, a g-max, an evolution, etc etc) would likely try very hard to play into literally any other design. Viking Burnhildr with an icy viking helm and operatic voice. An elderly yuki-onna madonna. A siren in the icy north. Yeti made of hair?? Weird mermaid???

Colress implying that Z-Moves are superior to a temproary but powerful form of a Pokémon? As in, a powerful but one-time nuke vs a powerful form that remains for the rest of the battle?

Even if unevolved Pokémon can use Z-Moves, I find it hard to believe that Z-Moves are superior to Mega Evolution in terms of power unless he implies something else about Z-Moves.

That’s like thinking that Professor Oak or anyone familiar with Kalos / Hoenn consider Dynamax and Gigantamax superior to Mega Evolution just because Dynamax doesn’t bring suffering to the trainer’s own Pokémon… sure, there’s nothing in SwSh that said about “Dynamax causing strains on Pokémon” but still.

If Mega Evolution have a notable downsides like the undesirable effects without the so-called strong bond between the Pokémon and their Trainers as early as XY, I would believe him. But that ain’t the case.

Colress' interest in Z-moves is on the end of the Z-Power specifically, not the literal gameplay implications. Z-Power is a strange force present in everyone and represents unleashing their "full power" (fully powered z moves, z for "zenith"). It's easy to see why Colress -whose research is based around the idea of bringing otu a Pokemon's potential- would be excited for it and hypothesize it might be able to do more for that research than the mega ring.

 

[Ironmage]

Colress' interest in Z-moves is on the end of the Z-Power specifically, not the literal gameplay implications. Z-Power is a strange force present in everyone and represents unleashing their "full power" (fully powered z moves, z for "zenith"). It's easy to see why Colress -whose research is based around the idea of bringing otu a Pokemon's potential- would be excited for it and hypothesize it might be able to do more for that research than the mega ring.

In other words, he's talking about Ultra Burst rather than standard Z-moves?

 

[R_N]

In other words, he's talking about Ultra Burst rather than standard Z-moves?

"Oh, excuse me! I am a scientist. My name is Colress. The theme of my research is: "Bringing out the potential of Pokémon." What brings out the power of Pokémon is...""I believe that is—the bond they share with their Trainers!""And thus my attention is drawn to Trainers like yourself... Trainers bound to their Pokémon through the power of the Z-Ring!""Now that I think of it, I never asked your name. ...""<player>, is it? I'll remember your name. To commemorate our encounter, let me give you a TM.""If you're able to utilize Flame Charge fully, you'll be able to have a great battle with the totem in the next trial...the trial in Lush Jungle.""Z-Power... Is it the true potential that I seek? Does it surpass the Mega Ring? Apparently, there are uninhabited islands for Pokémon called Poké Pelago here in Alola. Alola is fascinating! I believe that I will stay in Alola for some time!"

"This is excellent! Exciting, even! Alola is proving to be just full of surprises!""If a Trainer trusts his or her Pokémon, even in the most extreme of situations, the Pokémon inevitably respond by unleashing their full power! Just like that Trainer I once met...""There was only one answer I could reach. And in Alola, that answer takes the form of Z-Moves! I can now see with my own eyes the invisible power between Trainers and Pokémon... Z-Moves give it form! The Z-Power Ring and Z-Crystals... Their unknown energy will open doors to new worlds!"

It's the Power itself, that can be brought about through the Ring and Crystals, not one specific example on one specific Pokemon. The energy associated with it and how the bonds can be applied in ways different from the mega ring.

 

[Esserise]

Mr. Mime didn't get a baby pre-evo in Gen 2

As we know from the Spaceworld demos, that wasn’t for lack of trying, though!

Yeah I don't see it either. Specially with how much SM tried to give the message of Z-Moves already been better (the infamous dex entries, Colress himself implying they may be superior).

I don’t really believe the oft-proposed fan narrative that Game Freak wanted to besmirch Mega Evolution’s reputation for whatever reason. After all, the very next games after SM and USUM ditched Z-Moves and brought Mega Evolution right back.

I think it feels kind of like saying that they wanted to make Pokémon battling look bad by writing the plot of Black & White. Game Freak are open to some degree of self-interrogation, but self-condemnation was never the goal. It’s always seemed a little odd to me that the Mega Pokédex entries stood out so much to people, even though as BW pointed out, every single Pokémon battle you put your Pokémon through causes them to get physically hurt to the point of needing medical attention.

Like Yung Dramps said, I think the Dex entries are just worldbuilding. Mega Evolution infuses a Pokémon with a lot of power at once — it’s not an uncommon idea that such a great amount of power can be difficult or dangerous to control. And with a lot of the more already-vicious Pokémon, their natural aggression increases as well. (But then you also have others that are more neutral, or ones like Kangaskhan, which averages out to bittersweet, or Pinsir, which is outright gleeful despite normally being a more violent Pokémon.)

I think it’s also worth noting that at least some of the details mentioned by those Dex entries seem to have already been in place during Gen 6, rather than being a response to Mega Evolution or an attempt to discourage it. The old, now-defunct ORAS website mentioned both Glalie’s broken jaw and Lopunny’s extreme aggressiveness, for example. Again, I suspect that’s because this idea of Mega Evolution being a lot of power that is risky to control was always somewhere in the conceptual layer, and just wasn’t emphasized very much in the main games.

 

[DrrT]

I don't think that was meant to be the message. The dex entries line up with supplemental material from before SM and Colress brings it up more as a passing hypothesis on bringing out more potential than the mega ring.

He seems similarly interested in Dynamax (& megas, for that matter) looking at his events in Pokemon Masters, so I'm guessing he's just always looking at super mechanics.

I honestly have a hard time believing it was a coincidence than the one guy who was all about studying the bond of Pokemon and their trainers, which was the basis for Megaevolution, never showed up in Kalos to talk about it but appears in Alola without any real role (in vanilla SM that is, in USUM he obviously has both his hero moment with Ghetchis and his prior experience with fused Pokemon) just to drop a direct comparison between it and Z power.

Like sure, it makes sense he would later be interested in other gimmicks, but that seems as direct as GF could make the comparison without annoying people (really, what game would tell players "don't use this mechanic, is worse than this one despite being different"). They obviously wouldn't have anyone quite literally saying Megas are inferior, but the game clearly wants you to use the new gimmick, and this character that was studying which in a later game becomes Megaevolution shows up and happens to drop the idea of the new gimmick being potentially superior? Even as someone who has only played the Ultra versions, that obviously stood out to me.

I also have a hard time believing they wrote things like Mega Glailie's entry without noticing the message it can give, but if it really was in other material, I can accept it.

 

[DrrT]

As we know from the Spaceworld demos, that wasn’t for lack of trying, though!



I don’t really believe the oft-proposed fan narrative that Game Freak wanted to besmirch Mega Evolution’s reputation for whatever reason. After all, the very next games after SM and USUM ditched Z-Moves and brought Mega Evolution right back.

I think it feels kind of like saying that they wanted to make Pokémon battling look bad by writing the plot of Black & White.

That is a fair point indeed as Let's Go used Megas, but I don't think the Unova comparison is a good one since I would argue they wrote that plot exactly because of trying to make Pokemon battling look good, it's the opposite. I always got that's the reason why Ghetchis' twist exists to begin with, why in the sequels the morality of Team Plasma is reduced to "I stood with N and now understand Pokemon shouldn't be liberated" or "I stood/stand with Ghetchis and am a piece of shit who wants to steal Pokemon". As much as I love the story of these games and N, the main takeaway at the end of the day is "see, despite posioning or making them asleep helping you catch them, you are never forcing Pokemon to be your friends, the one guy who thought that was just being manipulated!" Which, while it obviously fits what most of the franchise has been trying to push, at the very core of its game mechanics (and they were aware of that since the very first game seeinf rhe beta sprite of Red with a whip) I'm still forcing these creatures into a ball, which gets easier the more damaged they are, and using them to do what I need, and even if they don't want to obey me, they can't escape. It gets even worse when you question their intelect but that's a whole other point. Even on the fprced captures, we have Ogerpon who literally wants to be your friend, but also Eternatus who was just a wild creature trying to survive but happened to have apocalyptic powers, but once you catch ot, it's over. No one will question your ability to have it (something than even the anime did!) because well, it's over for it. I can't do anything. Even on the Ogerpon example- had Kieran won, what would be the outcome? She would have been captured by force. Sure, she could have struggled...but so does most other Pokemon except the Legendary who quite literally chose you as its hero. And let's not even get to what the Terapagos scene implies, specially with how much more easily Master Balls are used on SV.

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion that ignores other aspects of the franchise, but even back then, I remember telling N out loud "no you are right, you being manipulated doesn't mean all what you stand for is nonsense!" As the games point out, there are still abused Pokemon. If they can really be abused and asked to fight against their will, and in a world where Master Balls exist, how can I really tell N he doesn't have a point? It's one of those things you are not supposed to think too deeply on, because Blue should not take Oak's advice seriously if he still managed to become (at the time) the number one trainer on the world, only beaten last minute by the player. There are game mechanics that are that, mechanics, and should have never been questioned. BW1 for better and for worse did it, but they never had the guts to fully commit to me and 2 reduced it to "Ghetchis bad, liberating Pokemon bad" with ironically not a single shade of grey in there. But if you only ever play the main series game up to that point, N is right. You could argue that makes the story even more compelling but while I would agree, it also means the ending also never resolved the issue and instead went for a cheap discourse of "it was an evil plan all along!". So I really don't think the BW1 story was written as self critique, but more like the opposite, to adress what some people said ans keep saying about the nature of Pokemon (and yes I think they failed).

 

[R_N]

I honestly have a hard time believing it was a coincidence than the one guy who was all about studying the bond of Pokemon and their trainers, which was the basis for Megaevolution, never showed up in Kalos to talk about it but appears in Alola without any real role (in vanilla SM that is, in USUM he obviously has both his hero moment with Ghetchis and his prior experience with fused Pokemon) just to drop a direct comparison between it and Z power.

Like sure, it makes sense he would later be interested in other gimmicks, but that seems as direct as GF could make the comparison without annoying people (really, what game would tell players "don't use this mechanic, is worse than this one despite being different"). They obviously wouldn't have anyone quite literally saying Megas are inferior, but the game clearly wants you to use the new gimmick, and this character that was studying which in a later game becomes Megaevolution shows up and happens to drop the idea of the new gimmick being potentially superior? Even as someone who has only played the Ultra versions, that obviously stood out to me.

I also have a hard time believing they wrote things like Mega Glailie's entry without noticing the message it can give, but if it really was in other material, I can accept it.

I think he wasn't in Kalos because they just didn't think of it (& it didn't have that many cameos to begin with).
In Alola, they wanted a bunch of random cameos and thought Colress would be fit. So he gets to be there and comment on it as well.

And ultimately, like...the idea that they're trying to push this thing is limited to a single line of a single NPC interaction that I think most people don't think or talk about. And it's talked about in a really passive manner too, not "mega evolutions suck, who would ever bother using this INFERIROR super mechanic".
Until you, specifically, right here, brought it up I never heard anyone try to present it as something being actively pushed at all.

Also funny you brought up glalie because it's the very specific one I think of because ORAS' website blurb about it is this

The excess Mega-Synchasized energy overflows from its mouth, causing its jaws to dislodge and break. It can no longer close its mouth, but its ability to release cold air has been greatly increased. It throws its enemies into its huge mouth, releasing cold air all at once and freezing them instantly.

Excuse the translated english, the american websites keep getting deleted and I didn't want to try dealing with the wayback machine to try and find the right url. So still-up-&-running Japanese website it is!
The XY websites didn't have as much detail about them, but we know they always write up more than is actually used and considering how something like Mega Lucario was treated in the anime, the conceit of Megas has always been "these are SO SUPER COOL & POWERFUL that they do RADICAL EDGEY THINGS" and also "Pinsir enjoys flying : )" because they're just that extreme and cool and super and your bond is SO strong that they work through it anyway and you're just that cool, also.

 

[Axiemeister]

Every alternate explanation of Jynx just feels like trying anything and everything to make the design not be a very bad depiction of gyaru.
Gyaru fits even more with how Jynx's dex goes too. The idea of her swaying her hips seductively hypnotically and saying babbling nonsense would fit perfectly with her blank stare as a weird, frankly kind of hateful, satire of what was probably a popular trend among teenage-to-young-adult women of the time. An american version of Jynx would probably be akin to making fun of the Valley Girl archetype or maybe a classic Mean Girl situation.

i 100% agree, and this is consistent with jynx not being ice-type to begin with and inheriting it from the discarded "buu".

speaking of which, i think concerns of whitewashing allegations regarding a new jynx variant are overstated - if the original is considered an offensive caricature, it would be good if a new version were to go down a different lane, no? "it's offensive but if you change it it's also offensive" is logically inconsistent. it's not like a humanoid mon needs to necessarily imply a certain ethnicity anyway - most of them don't.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Honestly, a mega Jynx would always bother me simply because of Electivire and Magmortar.

That reminds me.

I hate that Electivire looks like a bulky electric yeti and has pitiful defense.

Ol' brolic for no reason ahh mon

 

[ArrowCrab]

my understanding is Jynx is based on a Yokai, and its design was essentially a floating face on empty space

Could the "floating face in empty space" be a reference to Yamauba?
I remember reading a essay from Noriko Reider called "Yamauba and Oni-Women: Devouring and Helping Yamauba are Two Sides of the Same Coin" where in one part she talks about Yamauba being depicted as an "invisible oni." Also Yamauba are generally being depicted as being able to transform and/or having cannibalistic tendencies.
Maybe Jynx is supposed to be a Yamauba who disguised in the appearance of a woman lures/hypnotizes people and humanoid pokemon with seductive wiggles towards it so it can preform Lovely Kiss (Demon's Kiss in Japanese) and eat them. Would be a cool yet creepy explanation for a lot the weird traits Jynx has.

Something else I find weird is that Jynx and Articuno in Generation 1 are the only pokemon that naturally learn Blizzard, and in Generation 2 are the only Generation 1 pokemon to naturally learn Powder Snow. Which is very weird, maybe the criteria for natural Blizzard/Snow Powder access is that they are mountainous pokemon? Since Articuno and Jynx are probably based on mountainous creatures who do have some sort of control over the weather (Articuno being a literal snow fowl and Jynx possibly being a Yamauba who in some stories are mountain deities/caretakers)

 

[Valoo]

The SM/USUM dex entries are also noticeably darker (dead Primeape lol), so it doesn’t really surprise me they went with edgy entries for the megas. I doubt they were trying to turn people off their own mechanic that they knew was super popular.

 

[Worldie]

(dead Primeape lol),

It was foreshadowing all along

 

[pika pal]

Could the "floating face in empty space" be a reference to Yamauba?
I remember reading a essay from Noriko Reider called "Yamauba and Oni-Women: Devouring and Helping Yamauba are Two Sides of the Same Coin" where in one part she talks about Yamauba being depicted as an "invisible oni." Also Yamauba are generally being depicted as being able to transform and/or having cannibalistic tendencies.
Maybe Jynx is supposed to be a Yamauba who disguised in the appearance of a woman lures/hypnotizes people and humanoid pokemon with seductive wiggles towards it so it can preform Lovely Kiss (Demon's Kiss in Japanese) and eat them. Would be a cool yet creepy explanation for a lot the weird traits Jynx has.

Something else I find weird is that Jynx and Articuno in Generation 1 are the only pokemon that naturally learn Blizzard, and in Generation 2 are the only Generation 1 pokemon to naturally learn Powder Snow. Which is very weird, maybe the criteria for natural Blizzard/Snow Powder access is that they are mountainous pokemon? Since Articuno and Jynx are probably based on mountainous creatures who do have some sort of control over the weather (Articuno being a literal snow fowl and Jynx possibly being a Yamauba who in some stories are mountain deities/caretakers)

This does sound similar to the description I remember hearing for the Yokai comparison, though it had been along time and I didn't remember the name used. Might be the one to look into.

That is a fair point indeed as Let's Go used Megas, but I don't think the Unova comparison is a good one since I would argue they wrote that plot exactly because of trying to make Pokemon battling look good, it's the opposite. I always got that's the reason why Ghetchis' twist exists to begin with, why in the sequels the morality of Team Plasma is reduced to "I stood with N and now understand Pokemon shouldn't be liberated" or "I stood/stand with Ghetchis and am a piece of shit who wants to steal Pokemon". As much as I love the story of these games and N, the main takeaway at the end of the day is "see, despite posioning or making them asleep helping you catch them, you are never forcing Pokemon to be your friends, the one guy who thought that was just being manipulated!" Which, while it obviously fits what most of the franchise has been trying to push, at the very core of its game mechanics (and they were aware of that since the very first game seeinf rhe beta sprite of Red with a whip) I'm still forcing these creatures into a ball, which gets easier the more damaged they are, and using them to do what I need, and even if they don't want to obey me, they can't escape. It gets even worse when you question their intelect but that's a whole other point. Even on the fprced captures, we have Ogerpon who literally wants to be your friend, but also Eternatus who was just a wild creature trying to survive but happened to have apocalyptic powers, but once you catch ot, it's over. No one will question your ability to have it (something than even the anime did!) because well, it's over for it. I can't do anything. Even on the Ogerpon example- had Kieran won, what would be the outcome? She would have been captured by force. Sure, she could have struggled...but so does most other Pokemon except the Legendary who quite literally chose you as its hero. And let's not even get to what the Terapagos scene implies, specially with how much more easily Master Balls are used on SV.

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion that ignores other aspects of the franchise, but even back then, I remember telling N out loud "no you are right, you being manipulated doesn't mean all what you stand for is nonsense!" As the games point out, there are still abused Pokemon. If they can really be abused and asked to fight against their will, and in a world where Master Balls exist, how can I really tell N he doesn't have a point? It's one of those things you are not supposed to think too deeply on, because Blue should not take Oak's advice seriously if he still managed to become (at the time) the number one trainer on the world, only beaten last minute by the player. There are game mechanics that are that, mechanics, and should have never been questioned. BW1 for better and for worse did it, but they never had the guts to fully commit to me and 2 reduced it to "Ghetchis bad, liberating Pokemon bad" with ironically not a single shade of grey in there. But if you only ever play the main series game up to that point, N is right. You could argue that makes the story even more compelling but while I would agree, it also means the ending also never resolved the issue and instead went for a cheap discourse of "it was an evil plan all along!". So I really don't think the BW1 story was written as self critique, but more like the opposite, to adress what some people said ans keep saying about the nature of Pokemon (and yes I think they failed).

So here's my hang up with the Unova comparison: because the Mega entries are confined to flavor text, they go completely unchallenged and thus are just being presented as information, rather than a topic. Whatever side of the BW story you would fall on, the fact is that characters challenging each other over said position prior to Ghetsis's reveal means this is treated as a debate, not a "hard truth" that people have been sweeping aside until the 5th Gen. The reason people take the Alola dex as some "besmirch" campaign against Megas is because there's no counterpoint to the physical discomfort/pain it's stated to cause for the Pokemon, much less an actual "shoot down" of the idea.

And honestly I'd disagree about this being harder to address after SV specifically BECAUSE of the stuff with Kieran, Koraidon/Miraidon, Ogerpon, and Terapagos. Terapagos going berserk in its Stellar form is the first time in game canon material where we see a Pokemon not only defy returning to a Pokeball, but outright DESTROYING it (which based on your capture after, does mean Terapagos was no longer "Kieran's" after it did that). Even if only in extremely powerful cases, this does set the precedent in the games as other Media have done where a Pokemon can and WILL defy a trainer up to the point of not being returned while battling, which means not even capture is strictly all-controlling of them. The simple explanation for why you never witness most Pokemon doing this is the most basic: they simply never choose to, even with the antagonists (who even if they look down on their Pokemon may not mistreat theirs to such a degree).

Meanwhile, Ogerpon more or less confirms something I've always said: Pokemon battles are functionally the equivalent of combat sports like Fencing, Boxing, Wrestling, or Martial Arts tournaments. Ogerpon demonstrates outside of alluded-but-never-depicted Pokedex entries, very clearly, that Wild Pokemon can be combative with each other to dangerous or fatal degrees with no human intervention, again consistent (though this time by contrast) to other Pokemon depictions where Pokemon formally battling is clearly distinct from fighting with intent to kill (see: The Clone fight in M1, several Manga villains like the Kanto Elite Four, Electric-Tale-of-Pikachu Ash's League battle).

If anything SV kind of opens the can of worms that Pokemon are only with you by choice, as it is the game that demonstrates they can and sometimes WILL attack with intent to kill (Ogerpon), are not exempt from directing this at humans (Aggressive Raidon collateral), and are not guaranteed controllable even by capture (Terapagos)

 

[a blue banana]

I don’t understand why Ogerpon’s masks power up all of its attacks rather than just its STAB moves. Doing the latter would put them more in line with how other Pokemon-specific items work, particularly Arceus’s plates and Soul Dew. I also don’t see why Ivy Cudgel needed to have an increased crit rate when it already has a rare and powerful trait that only a few other select Pokemon have a move with a similar effect.

I think these couple gameplay aspects of Ogerpon are blatantly designed to make an already powerful unit more so, and I feel that those are bad design decisions when SV’s base game already introduced many aspects that are polarizing in power.

 

[R_N]

I don’t understand why Ogerpon’s masks power up all of its attacks rather than just its STAB moves. Doing the latter would put them more in line with how other Pokemon-specific items work, particularly Arceus’s plates and Soul Dew. I also don’t see why Ivy Cudgel needed to have an increased crit rate when it already has a rare and powerful trait that only a few other select Pokemon have a move with a similar effect.

I think these couple gameplay aspects of Ogerpon are blatantly designed to make an already powerful unit more so, and I feel that those are bad design decisions when SV’s base game already introduced many aspects that are polarizing in power.

It's also a little funny since between the two you'd think Terapagos would get the really busted stuff -since it's restricted- but as far as I know Terapagos is....strong but not "here's a laundry list of why it's strong"?

Where as both Urshifu & Calyrex wound up being busted for different but equal reasons.

Truly, the favored child.

 

[DreamPrince]

A very minor peeve about Gen 5- It is only generation with the National Dex that you have to strictly transfer to obtain all the Pokemon. Gens 3, 4, and 6 allowed you to complete the Pokedex exclusively via trading, transfering was not required. Granted, its not that a big deal for most people, considering that Gen 5 and 4 were on DS, and you need two consoles for both trading and transfering; but there are still advantages that trading has over transfer. The biggest being is that trade is two way- if you, let's say, wanted to use a Pokemon in Gen 5 VGC like Hitmontop, but still wanted to use Hitmontop in the Gen 4 facilities, you'd face a dillema with one way transfer. Trading wouldn't have that issue. Granted, its a minority, but it proves how trading is better than transfer in that case.

Interestingly enough, all gens with the National Dex in them have had remakes with the exception of 5: FRLG for Gen 3, HGSS for Gen 4, and ORAS for Gen 6. While Gen 7 had the entire roster, there was no National Dex, hence no awards for taking the effort other than more teambuilding options.

 

[R_N]

A very minor peeve about Gen 5- It is only generation with the National Dex that you have to strictly transfer to obtain all the Pokemon. Gens 3, 4, and 6 allowed you to complete the Pokedex exclusively via trading, transfering was not required. Granted, its not that a big deal for most people, considering that Gen 5 and 4 were on DS, and you need two consoles for both trading and transfering; but there are still advantages that trading has over transfer. The biggest being is that trade is two way- if you, let's say, wanted to use a Pokemon in Gen 5 VGC like Hitmontop, but still wanted to use Hitmontop in the Gen 4 facilities, you'd face a dillema with one way transfer. Trading wouldn't have that issue. Granted, its a minority, but it proves how trading is better than transfer in that case.

Interestingly enough, all gens with the National Dex in them have had remakes with the exception of 5: FRLG for Gen 3, HGSS for Gen 4, and ORAS for Gen 6. While Gen 7 had the entire roster, there was no National Dex, hence no awards for taking the effort other than more teambuilding options.

Though Gen 4 has the asterisk of needing the event Regigigas to get everyone without transfer.

I think if we count events (Restricted giveaways, Mythics, dream world starters, Pikachu, etc), Gen 5 has everyone covered....except for Unown. Well. Had everyone covered. Dream World being down and all...

 

[a blue banana]

It's also a little funny since between the two you'd think Terapagos would get the really busted stuff -since it's restricted- but as far as I know Terapagos is....strong but not "here's a laundry list of why it's strong"?

Where as both Urshifu & Calyrex wound up being busted for different but equal reasons.

Truly, the favored child.

I prefer the developers to go with the design philosophy of Terapagos when designing future legendaries or other special Pokemon like paradoxes, rather than just slapping a stat multiplier ability onto a Pokemon, over-optimizing or min-maxing its base stats, and then calling it a day.