ORAS Ubers Lugia + Offense

I've always had a penchant for making HO teams, so I've decided to branch out a tiny bit post Mega-Ray. As a result, HO + Lugia was initially an idea I had to counter balance some of the limits of HO, namely extremely bulky walls/tanks and vulnerability to revenge killing/Xerneas. The "main sweeper", or the one that's designed to be supported the most, is Mega Blaziken.
249-d.gif

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave

Lugia serves a sort of focal point of the team, and can be thought of as a means to pass an advantage to whichever sweeper is appropriate later in the match. Basically, this set is used early game to cripple as many walls as possible with Toxic, and faster sweepers with Thunder Wave. Somewhat of a judgment call exists when facing a bulky sweeper/tank as to which status to inflict, but often typing dictates that, as in the case of Scizor, Landorus-T, and Arceus Ground/Electric/Steel/Poison. Whirlwind is there to phaze Xerneas and other setup sweeper/wallbreaker types, and to make spreading status a bit easier. 204 speed outspeeds Primal Groudon and Kyogre, which is nice for a wall, and honestly the defense EVs are a vestige of the Mega Ray era, so those are open to change.
491.gif

Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Void
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt

Darkrai was the last Pokemon I added to this team, largely because the rest of the team really appreciates not having to deal with hazards #multiscale. A fast Taunt lead is one way of accomplishing this, and Darkrai is arguably the best Pokemon that fits that archetype. Dark Void temporarily bypasses one check/counter, but the accuracy is REALLY annoying, so much so that I've considered using Wide Lens. Nasty Plot is generally the best way to spend the free turn Dark Void gives you, and Dark Pulse is there because it deals damage. Darkrai can really destroy the occasional team that forgot it exists, so it's not dead weight after its taunting is done. EVs are pretty standard for sweepers, but possibly not optimal (I'm not aware of what is optimal). 4 Def gives Genesect the SpA boost so he can't rek you with U-Turn.
257-mega.gif

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz

As the main setup sweeper on this team, Blaziken usually comes in during the late game to sweep weakened and statused Pokemon. Protect and Swords Dance are standard, and I've chosen HJK over Low Kick because it does have higher BP, and the argument of accuracy seems to me to be exactly like Flamethrower vs Fire Blast on every special Fire mon in existence. It's not as if I'm going to click HJK when there's a Ghost left on the opposing team anyway. Flare Blitz serves as my other STAB, and compliments HJK pretty well, but I'm sure most of you already knew that. Like Darkrai, this one is open to EV optimizing if that's what ought to happen.
384.gif

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 108 Atk / 160 SpA / 240 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Surf
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Ascent
- Stone Edge

This set's a bit weird. I use Rayquaza as a revenge killer primarily, as the nature of this metagame is still pretty offensive. Surf OHKOs max bulk Primal Groudon.

160 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Surf vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Groudon: 452-536 (111.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Flamethrower OHKOs max bulk Ferrothorn, which I find insanely annoying in general.

160 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 354-416 (100.5 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Stone Edge OHKOs max bulk Ho-Oh. While max bulk may not be common, this thing is everywhere, and the rest of the team is weak to it, so I'm not taking any chances.

108 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 442-525 (106.5 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dragon Ascent is the spammable move of this set, and also the only one that isn't geared to kill a specific threat to the rest of the team. Leftover EVs are put in speed so Rayquaza can actually perform its role as an offensive mon.


493-steel.gif

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 44 Def / 52 SpD / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Recover

Here is your obligatory Xerneas/Ekiller check. Iron Head always 2HKOs Xerneas, While 2HKOing Ekiller at +2. Steelceus dies to Focus Blast and EQ respectively, but Focus Blast isn't being run as much as in the past, in my experience. All other attacks from those two do a pittance of damage to Steelceus.

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Arceus-Steel: 187-221 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Arceus-Steel: 134-158 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 31.7% chance to 3HKO

Note that even at +2, Ekiller doesn't OHKO with EQ, so you can get some damage off before you die if they run EQ.

+2 252+ Atk Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Arceus-Steel: 372-438 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EVs are structured to avoid the 2HKO from +2 Xerneas' Moonblast, outspeed Primal Don & co, and survive an EQ from Ekiller, while doing as much damage as possible with 32+ attack investment.
649.gif

Genesect @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 84 Atk / 172 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Iron Head
- U-turn

Ubers is a really unpredictable metagame, so Genesect helps this team out by providing coverage to hit all the random things people think of. BoltBeam's coverage is perfect, and the physical moves are for destroying Fairies and maintaining momentum, respectively. The attack EVs allow me to always 2HKO Xerneas, and the rest in SpA helps Genesect's good coverage really hurt. Generally, trying to get a download boost in SpA is more desirable, as BoltBeam hits a lot more mons hard than Iron Head and U-Turn. This Pokemon had a scarf at one point, but experience has shown me that this thing has real sweeping potential, and most of the stuff it can kill is slow anyway.




Threats

Clerics - Completely ruin Lugia's day, making this just a mediocre HO team unless they're dealt with by Darkrai, Genesect, or Steelceus before Lugia is dead.

383.gif

This guy can ruin my day if Ray is somehow gone, so I generally save Ray for him.
382.gif

RestTalk Variants beat Lugia, which is what I use to Toxic stall normal Ogres to death. Can be revenged by Genesect or Blaziken, though.
 
About to go to bed so I can't give a full rate but here are a couple things.

HO + Lugia doesn't work very well. As offense you want to be attacking and forcing the opponent to switch out of unfavorable positions or whatnot so that you can wear down walls or set up to sweep. As soon as Lugia comes in you lose the ability to put pressure on opponents. Toxic is a minor issue, especially when you team can outright 2hko the majority of things. Offense wants a Stealth Rock user, so that could go here.

Focus Blast Xerneas is the most used coverage move now because it hits Primal Groudon the hardest. Also, most Ekillers should be Jolly Life Orb, meaning EQ does more. Arceus Steel still can check these kinda with a different set (bulk with Wisp), though you might do better swapping it out entirely. Anyway will do a full rate sometime in the future, these are just some things to think about in the meantime.
 
Hello, Gravity Wisp

This team is pretty strange. HO + Lugia doesn't work, you should try another Groudon-Primal check. I suggest Arceus-Ground. Your Rayquaza set is strange, i don't even know why are you using Stone Edge, Rayquaza already 2HKOs Ho-Oh with max adamant LO dragon ascent ; using Surf for Primal Groudon is stupid, its ability protects it from the water moves and Earthquake 2HKOs Primal Groudon ; Dragon Ascent 2HKOs Ferrothorn as well. I'll suggest the following set: Dragon Ascent, Extreme Speed, Earthquake, Swords Dance.
Arceus-Steel isn't a good Ekiller check (or not even a check): Earthquake from +2 LO ekiller OHKOs it. I would suggest Giratina-Origin over Arceus-Steel.
I would also suggest Klefki over Genesect, because it checks Xerneas and other fairys much better; it also can sets Spikes, which it provides more offensive pressure.
Blaziken gives you a huge Kyogre weakness, that's why i suggest Groudon-Primal over it. It is a great Revenge Killer and a decent Xerneas/Kyogre check.

n.b: brave bird = dragon ascent.

Dragon Ascent LO Adamant Rayquaza vs. Ho-Oh (Choice band, Physically defensive)

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 341-402 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 242-285 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Dragon Ascent LO Adamant Rayquaza vs. Ferrothorn (Uber Utility)

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 247-292 (70.1 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 493-581 (140 - 165%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Arceus LO Ekiller vs. Arceus-Steel

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Arceus-Steel: 484-569 (109 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

493-ground.png
over
249.gif

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover


------------------------------------------------------------

383.gif
over
257.gif

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 129 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
-------------------------------------------------------

487_orijin.gif
over
493-steel.png

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 180 Atk / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic


-----------------------------------------------

707.png
over
649.gif

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Toxic

------------------------------------------------------------

384.gif

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance


Hope I helped !
 
Last edited:
Hello, Gravity Wisp

This team is pretty strange. HO + Lugia doesn't work, you should try another Groudon-Primal check. I suggest Arceus-Ground. Your Rayquaza set is strange, i don't even know why are you using Stone Edge, Rayquaza already 2HKOs Ho-Oh with max adamant LO dragon ascent ; using Surf for Primal Groudon is stupid, its ability protects it from the water moves and Earthquake 2HKOs Primal Groudon ; Dragon Ascent 2HKOs Ferrothorn as well. I'll suggest the following set: Dragon Ascent, Extreme Speed, Earthquake, Swords Dance.
Arceus-Steel isn't a good Ekiller check (or not even a check): Earthquake from +2 LO ekiller OHKOs it. I would suggest Giratina-Origin over Arceus-Steel.
I would also suggest Klefki over Genesect, because it checks Xerneas and other fairys much better; it also can sets Spikes, which it provides more offensive pressure.
Blaziken gives you a huge Kyogre weakness, that's why i suggest Groudon-Primal over it. It is a great Revenge Killer and a decent Xerneas/Kyogre check.

n.b: brave bird = dragon ascent.

Dragon Ascent LO Adamant Rayquaza vs. Ho-Oh (Choice band, Physically defensive)

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 341-402 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 242-285 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Dragon Ascent LO Adamant Rayquaza vs. Ferrothorn (Uber Utility)

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 247-292 (70.1 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 493-581 (140 - 165%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Arceus LO Ekiller vs. Arceus-Steel

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Arceus-Steel: 484-569 (109 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

493-ground.png
over
249.gif

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover


------------------------------------------------------------

383.gif
over
257.gif

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 129 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
-------------------------------------------------------

487_orijin.gif
over
493-steel.png

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 180 Atk / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic


-----------------------------------------------

707.png
over
649.gif

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Toxic

------------------------------------------------------------

384.gif

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance


Hope I helped !



y0 Earth, they seem like some good suggestions but just a little thing: You want to change the evs so you have an odd HP total. So for Rayquaza it'd be 252Att/252Spe 4Def/SpD. :]
 
Hello Earth and Lemonade,

First of all, thank you for your time and effort. I can't stress enough how much gratitude I have that people actually analytically examined this. I plan on switching Arceus for Giratina, and likely Genesect for Klefki as well. Also, swords dance over flamethrower (and more attack EVa) on Rayquaza is a much better option, so thank you for that.

However, some of your other arguments seem unfounded to some extent. Here's why. No disrespect intended.

Air lock negates desolate land, so Ray always OHKOs Primal Don with surf. On top of that, Ray's speed means that only RP sets at +2 have a chance of winning.

I need the OHKO on Ho-oh with stone edge because sacred fire burns cause dragon ascent to become worthless, and while dragon ascent still beats banded Ho-oh, a roost variant can stall you out. Basically, being able to beat most, if not all Ho-oh sets seems better to me than efficiently beating one Ho-oh set, but losing to others.

Lugia isn't meant to check Primal Groudon, as Ray does that just fine for reasons explained above. Lugia may be inefficient on this team, but that's not because he's a bad Primal Don check.

Additionally, Blaziken's Kyogre weakness is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Lugia can switch into any water move, if it's still alive, and toxic stall/whirlwind out kyogre, for all-out attacking and CM sets respectively. This tactic is obviously shut down by RestTalk sets, but Blaziken can easily get a swords dance up while Kyogre is sleeping, at which point HJK is a OHKO. This isn't Blaziken vs Kyogre in 1v1.

My mind is still open in all these cases, as long as I see evidence behind why I should change what already works to some extent, not just "surf is shit".

As for what lemonade mentioned, I don't understand why SR is emphasized so much in a game so full of defog. Also, how does Lugia stop my momentum when it forces tons of switches and generally makes the opponent beat it on its own terms via whirlwind? I'm genuinely curious as to how you see this issue.

Again, thank you both for your time and effort. I hope I've made myself look like a bit less of an idiot.
 
Just because Defog is there doesn't mean the opponent can Defog whenever they want. Often times they have to balance their Defoger taking a ton of damage or being KOed to get the Defog off.

Let's take Latias for example, as it is one of the best Defog users atm. Agaisnt what Pokemon does it Defog for free? Everything besides Lugia deals serious damage. Now you might be thinking, well Latias outspeeds Rayquaza and forces it out, so it gets a free Defog there. That is also highly situation dependent. If you don't need you Ray anymore, you can leave it in to deal massive damage. If Latias Defogs, it traded itself for Defog. If it Dracos you, you can just switch in Darkrai or whatnot and force Latias out. As an offensive team, the idea is to put pressure on the Defog user so it's never free. Then, your Stealth Rock user is often a very good pivot that can come in multiple times to get Rocks back up, such as Groudon. Rocks really do help wear down the opponent, and importantly prevent free switches.

With regards to Lugia, first of all without Rocks Whirlwinding is not a big deal. They just wait unitil say their Yveltal comes out (for free because no Rocks), and now your team will take a ton of damage from LO Dark Pulse. If you had Stealth Rock, if they tried to switch in their Yveltal immediately it would take 25% and be phazed out, meaning it would take 25% more the next time. Forcing switches hardly matters when you can't do anything detrimental (like fire off a powerful attack).

Basically, when they switch in their Lugia check, Lugia is forced out. That means something on your team is taking a powerful attack for no reason, and with offense most of your mons are too squishy to survive. While you could say to just use Rocks, it's not really enough. Lugia cannot stall out a well built team on its own, nor can the rest of your team stall out a Toxic'd mon. You need a Cleric to heal status off (many teams can Burn or Toxic things), and Defog of your own to keep Multiscale intact.
 
Back
Top