ORAS OU M-Sableye's last words

[noob nightmare]

This is the first serious team I have made. It is aimed to be a stall team (please dont try to change that) and I have reached 1509 points in the ladder with it.

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Snarl
- Recover
- Calm Mind

I chose M- Sableye because of the two wonderful abilites it has access to: prankster (before mega-evolving) and magic bounce. It cripples physical attackers with willo wisp, and special attackers with snarl. It heals with recover and can even set up with calm mind. It bounces status, taunt and hazards.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Its my special wall, and it can also cleric with heal bell( very useful for clefable). Toxic is mandatory to actually do some damage, and seismic toss is to avoid being taunt bait.
Soft boiled to heal, although i would like to use wish(again to cleric) but i would need to have protect then and i dont want to drop toxic or seismic toss

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonlight
- Flamethrower
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power

I needed a way to stop set-up sweepers and unaware gave me the solution. Its not a calm mind one because i want it to wall physical sweepers too. Flamethrower is to surprise scizors and other steel types (bar heatran) if they try to switch in. I would like to have soft-boiled instead of moonlight but its incompatible with another move.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Roost

Its my physical wall and stealth rock setter. It also absorbs status if sableye is weak to switch in (or just dead). Protect allows me to scout ice beams and switch out if necessary. The two final moves are one of the few things i havent clear: i have used earthquake and roost, fling and acrobatics...I may change it to swords dance earthquake, but I dont know. With one attack, it always misses something.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball

I chose Ferrothorn for the team after testing a few pokemon, like umbreon and registeel, but none of them gave me anything I didnt have. I realize that having a spikes setter and a way to punish physical attackers. Gyro ball punishes fairy types and power whip tries to deal with manaphy. Leech seed helps to heal ferro.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Scald
- Calm Mind

The classical Suicune set, designed to sponge physical hits and spread burns and cripple physical attackers, as Sableye cannot do everything on its own. It can set up if the opponent lets him and proceed to destroy their team if they dont have the luck to crit him. I recently realized that pressure can be useful sometimes, if the opponent has a supereffective attack with low pp. The problem with this set is that sleep talk is not reliable





Manaphy gives a lot of problems, mainly the scald-rain dance-tail glow version, as it can 2hko chansey and it is not stopped by clefable because moonlight heals less on rain, and even suicune isnt a safe counter.
Mega-Heracross and Hoopa-U are also problematic if sableye has megaevolved. Kyurem-black can be a huge problem if it carries iron head
Needless to say that crits can destroy the team too if they come in the wrong moment

 

[FroTW]

Kinda messed up how people answered your poll but no one replies, ah well, they probably couldn't come up with any ideas.

Looking at your team I must say it is refreshing to see a whole team based on stalling but you have quite a road ahead of you in this age of sweepers.

The one thing that really sticks out as off to me about your team is that every single pokemon is specced for Defense. This is highly redundant and tbh I'm surprised you got so far without that problem coming into effect. Your team has 2 burners, one that is all but guaranteed to burn and Will-O-Wisp so you don't really need to make every pokemon Defense heavy as it leaves you very specially weak. For dealing with M-Hera and Hoopa-U, all I can say is leave Sableye un-mega'd till they're burned because the only real way to counter those two is with either burn or a better sweeper and since this is a stall team, you gotta burn 'em.

Now onto dealing with your threat of Manaphy (and I assume CM Keldeo as well) you have 2 options.
Note: I'll be using Surf since it's slightly stronger and I don't feel like calculating for burns

First, you can simply change the EVs on your Ferrothorn to 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpDef. This allows you to tank a +2'd Manaphy:
+2 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 153-180 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
w/o Rain:
+2 252+ SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 136-161 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Assuming you switched to Ferrothorn when Manaphy went out you should be able to KO it with Power Whip since it either won't be TG'd or won't have Rain:
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 246-290 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is the change to make that would change your team up the least and yes you'll lose out on some Defense but as I said before, you have 2 burners, I wouldn't worry too much.

Secondly you can change the Gliscor to Support Tyranitar
Tyranitar w/ LO
248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpDef - Careful
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge
Roar
T-Wave/Pursuit

This will give your team some additional SpDef but doesn't stall as well as Gliscor. Roar lets you get rid of Manaphy and other set-up Sweepers along with dishing out some SR damage to the enemies. T-Wave will allow you to shut down speedy sweeper teams that rely on switching and special moves since burn won't matter to them and the switching will make Toxic pointless. Pursuit can also be used to lock in enemies like Latios/as who could get pulled in by a Roar.

Support Tyranitar can also tank a Manaphy shot and, assuming you're playing well, Roar the punk away in the next turn:
+2 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 302-356 (74.9 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You could also use a mixed wall Hippowdon in place of Gliscor.

Hippowdon w/ LO
252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpDef - Impish
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Slack Off
Whirlwind

On any stall team I think it's key to have Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail because it allows you to get hazard damage on the entire enemy team along with preventing enemies from setting up. Now this Hippowdon cannot tank a +2 Manaphy hit but if you just change your Ferrothorn, there won't be any trouble with Manaphy.

The reason I think Gliscor should be switched out is because it's not really stalling anything and on a stalling team, that's kinda a big problem. He seems to be stuck between a sweeper/stallbreaker/wall role and I don't see how Gliscor can pull that off well.

tl;dr
Ferrothorn > 252 HP/88 Def / 168 SpDef
Gliscor >>> Hippowdon / Tyranitar

 

[MANNAT]

Hey there noob nightmare, this is a pretty solid stall team, but as an avid stall user myself, there are a few changes that I recommend you make to this team in order to make it better. But before I suggest these changes, I highly recommend that you add more explanation to each mon's description about sets, moves, usage tips, ev spreads, etc. using the edit button as they are rly short and your thread may get locked.

Set Change 1: CM

--->Utility

Your team is weak to many powerful attackers with high physical attack stats like Mega Pinsir and Hoopa-Unbound and generally appreciates opposing mons being crippled with their respective items knocked off, and you will have 3 other wincons if you make the changes I do, so the utility of foul play being able to OHKO powerful attackers like hoopa u after rocks or one round of LO recoil or mega pinsir at +2 is invaluable to your team, although you need to burn the pinsir when it initially tries to SD.

Set Change 2: SR

--->SD

Your current Gliscor set is extremely passive and literally does nothing for your team aside from setting rocks, so I recommend replacing your current Gliscor set with an SD one so that you can use weak ground types like hippo and defensive lando as setup bait and really threaten opposing teams while being a cool check to mons that commonly threaten stall like gengar, clefable, and opposing sableye if they have cm.

Set Change 3:

Set
Currently, Manaphy and other special attackers that beat chansey are a large threat to your team, and you lack a rocker as a result of gliscor now having SD over its old set, so a slight change using a more specially bulky EV spead in 88/168 with stealth rock as well as holding a leftovers for an extended lifespam is really appreciated for your team.

Set Change 4:

Unaware Cosmic Power --->

Magic Guard Calm Mind
Currently, your team handles most setup sweepers very well in between the other five members of the team, you have lost a cm user in sableye, and your team is somewhat worn down quickly since sableye is your only method of hazard control, so I recommend running magic guard clefable over your current clefable set. It can lure in steel types actually even better than the cosmic power set since flamethrower hits harder, it is significantly harder to wear down, and it hits very hard once it starts boosting as the boosts are offensive and not defensive.

Mon Change 1:

--->

Specs Keldeo, Mega Heracross, and LO Loom are all huge threats to this team as they can 2hko every member of the team, and suicune doesn't really do anything for you that any other member of the team doesn't already do, so I recommend running bulk up talonflame over suicune in order to better check these threats as it can revenge kill all three of these mons with STAB no item acrobatics. It also provides your team with a win condition to replace suicune since it can bulk up and win later in the game, and it can cripple most of its normal switch ins with wisp, making them into setup fodder.

Conclusion: These changes should definetely make your team a lot more consistent and preform better in general vs a multitude of threats, and you have quite a few more winconditions that allow you to win, but you are a bit weaker to some uncommon threats that you probably won't see much on the ladder, the only one that I can think about righth now being victini. Also, make sure that you get sableye mega evolved as soon as possible, maybe even during turn one if possible since you have no other methods of hazard removal, but you have to accept that you will most likely lose the hazard war any time that you face a team with a rocker that beats sableye, like rocks clef or lum sd chomp.

Sets:

Sets

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower/Thunder Wave

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 8 Def / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Roost

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp

 

[gobosox]

this team is ass

 

[dream light]

Yo this is an interesting team dude, it's nice to see stall that's not ABR's cancer. I do notice a few things that could be troublesome to deal with though like MegaCharX, which if SD or if it gets a few DD's against say Suicune can put in a lot of work. DragMag with Altaria / Latios can also put in a lot of work, because once Ferro goes you can't really beat DD Refresh Altaria. I have a few things that might make this team more effective.

Threats:

1. Like I said earlier DDZardX is very threatening for you to deal with. You do have a Gliscor but it's not the best check for ZardX: +1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 279-328 (78.8 - 92.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, that's not a particularly good solution since after that your main answer is flare blitz recoil stalling. If you come in on rocks
2. DragMag has the potential to win as well; generally speaking it's like Scarf Mag + Alt with refresh and bulky DD. If Ferrothorn is trapped, Roost Altaria beats every other team member one on one and DD's to +6 fairly easily with no way of reliably stopping it. Similarly CM Latios puts in a ton of work with Mag support, 2HKO'ing Chansey at +1 and putting pressure on clefable to recover with hazards. Clefable can kind of wall it but can't come in 100%:
   212 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 165-195 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, so you need to be careful that clef doesnt get chipped in that scenario
3. Manectric / Volt Switcher (could be Raik or Thundy too ig) + Azu, Azu can put in a ton of work and gets free switches from Manectric Volt Switches on say, Suicune or Ferro which are both forced out. You can generally pivot around them but they both put in a lot of work if played well.
4. Hoopa is also a threat as always. No switchins here or real way to beat it. Same with Gengar, tbh and specs Keldeo blows a lot of the members away.

I think these can be improved on with a few simple changes, nothing too drastic.

1. To help with CharX and setup sweepers in a pinch that Clefable can't handle, run Roar > Sleep Talk on Suicune. Roar lets you Roar out opposing Suicune as well as ZardX which attempt to set up, and lets you potentially rack up spikes and SR damage which is nice. Sleep talk is nice but roar helps a ton for racking up residual
2. I agree with FroTW's suggestion of using the 252 HP / 88+ Def / 168 SpDef spread on Ferrothorn to make it a better mixed check for everything really. I might also recommend using Shed Shell to improve your Magnezone matchup, which is otherwise problematic in terms of reliably beating Altaria. You can still heal potentially with Leech Seed. However, I think the best solution might actually be Amoonguss > Ferrothorn because then you still check Altaria with Clear Smog but also gain a Keldeo switchin. This makes Manaphy a greater threat though, so this has to come with the following:
3. Cleric Clefable > Moonlight Setup, with Heal Bell and WishTect Unaware Clefable can consistently beat Manaphy unless it's RD TG Rest in which case you likely still win unless you get burned very often, and you can cm up with Manaphy and Roar it out with Suicune.
4. Gengar is enough of a threat that I'd consider either running Specially Defensive Gliscor like littlelucario suggested above (please with EQ though) or instead run Choice Scarf Tyranitar > Gliscor to Pursuit trap Lati@s, Gengar, and potentially HoopaU. Finally you lose rocks from this, so
5. Stealth Rock > Heal Bell on Chansey, which is covered already by Clefable with the changes in mind. You need Rocks without Gliscor now and double Heal Bell is a little bizarre.

If tldr,

1. Roar > Sleep Talk on Suicune
2. Amoonguss > Ferrothorn
3. Cleric Clefable > Moonlight Setup
4. Choice Scarf Tyranitar > Gliscor
5. Stealth Rock > Heal Bell on Chansey

Think that's all, hope I helped!

E: Oh and Scarftar helps you out against Pinsir!

sets

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clear Smog
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Spore

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Roar

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Serious Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Recover

 

[Addiction]

Hey,

This is a pretty cool team. Stall teams are usually pretty uniform (especially now with the prevalence of a certain one) and I like that you tried to deviate from that. However, a few threats really jump off the page:

Pinsir - This is probably the most dangerous one, as it can just spam return and pretty much beat you 10/10 if your opponent isn't bad.
Keldeo - Your team has no traditional switch-in; you have to make a prediction every time specs Keldeo comes out. Suicune can switch into SS, but takes 33% with an absolute min; after that, it can:
a) fish for a burn while risking getting worn down completely
b) pivot out to something else, leaving it weaker for next time
c) use rest, rendering it a much worse switch-in than it was initially.
CM Keldeo can be tentatively taken on by Clefable, but is extremely problematic if it lands a burn (and we all know how much that happens...).
Bisharp - You have no switch-in to knock off until Gliscor's Toxic Orb activates. Even then, you don't have EQ on Gliscor, which means you can't touch it (opp is going to assume you have it, but this is still a problem for obvious reasons).

You're also generally weak to strong physical attackers that can break through Gliscor, which isn't really the best primary physical wall for a stall team. You're weak to Weavile for the same reasons as Bisharp, really weak to Charizard-X, and even Lopunny and SD Excadrill give you a bit of a headache.

Although I hate to say it and I know you might not want to make this change, I honestly think a core of Skarmory/Quagsire/Amoonguss complements your team better than Gliscor/Ferrothorn/Suicune. The latter seems like a core that would be found more often on balance teams than on full stall; it can switch into many offensive mons with ease, but it has to rely on the other team members putting some offensive pressure on dangerous stallbreakers to perform to its best. In switching those 3 out for Skarmory/Quagsire/Amoonguss, you gain pretty reliable counters to Pinsir, Bisharp, and Keldeo. The combination of Quagsire/Skarmory also does quite well against most of the physical attackers mentioned above. Amoonguss can keep CM Manaphy at bay with Giga Drain and Clear Smog, though Tail Glow variants still present a problem. You don't really seem to lose anything important when this change is made, either. You can now change Clefable to a CM variant, since you have Quagsire in the back and may still want a win condition. Note that if this change is made, Toxic on Chansey should be replaced with Stealth Rock.

Even if you don't want to make such a big change, there are a few things I can recommend for your current version. First off, you really need to switch out either Protect or Roost for Earthquake on Gliscor. You really only need one to get the healing your desire. Though Protect can scout, I personally would probably keep Roost. Mono-attacking Gliscor just fails to hit a ton of what it needs to hit. I also don't really like Cosmic Power Clefable; sweeping seems altogether unlikely against good players because it takes so long to set up, and the loss of Moonblast means you're incredibly weak with horrible coverage off the bat. I feel that a simpler set of Moonblast / Flamethrower / Wish / Protect does all you need Unaware Clefable to do without sacrificing the ability to attack.

Sorry about the length of this post. I find that stall teams often require more in-depth descriptions of threats. I'm not a huge fan of stall myself, but good luck with your team nonetheless. Here are the sets I mentioned:

Hide

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Defog
- Roost

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover

Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled