ORAS OU M-Swampert Rain Team

I've taken a shot at a rain team with, honestly, mild success. I'm not really sure where I've gone wrong. Here's hoping you good fellows here at smogon can see the flaw/s in my team that I'm apparently blind to.

Building Process
swampert.gif

From the begging I intended to use M-Swampert.
Bolstering awesome 100/110/110 defenses, a massive attack stat and insane speed under rain. It was an easy choice..

politoed.gif


It's Politoad.

ludicolo.gif


With a physical rain sweeper covered I needed someone to fill in the special gap.
After a lot of consideration I decided on Ludicolo over Kingdra and Omastar. I'll go into more detail below.

tornadus-therian.gif


I need to plug up the glaring grass weakness that plagues all rain dedicated teams.
Being able to abuse 100% accurate Hurricanes and resisting grass, Tornadus-T seemed like an obvious choice.

raikou.gif

I noticed a glaring weakness to Talonflame that need to be fixed.
After a swords dance, Talonflame could punch holes in my team uncontested. Raikou seemed to be the best answer.

ferrothorn.gif


I needed a rock setter, as well as a way to check/counter a few key pokemon.
Ferrothorn filled that gap perfectly.

In-dept Team Analysis
swampert-mega.png


Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch

Mega Swampert is a very strong and very fast under rain. Bolstering a massive attack stat of 150 and a wide movepool with all the coverage options it needs, it deserves it's place as a staple on rain teams. It's only drawback being that it takes up a mega slot.
Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature makes Mega Swampert hit as hard as possible. Maximum Speed investment allows Mega Swampert to outspeed the whole unboosted metagame, as well as some slower Choice Scarf users.

Waterfall hits incredibly hard. Especially under rain. Earthquake is a solid secondary STAB attack and is also Mega Swampert's hardest-hitting attack outside of the rain. Ice Punch hits the Grass- and Dragon-types that resist Mega Swampert's STAB combination. Power-Up Punch, while not very useful as a coverage move, can be used on weakened foes and gives Mega Swampert a way to boost its Attack stat, allowing it to wallbreak more easily.




politoed.png


Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest


Politoed's ability Drizzle makes it a crucial Pokemon for rain teams.

I've opted for a physically defensive EV set. Mainly due wanting to switch into physical attackers more often then special.

Scald is STAB and is boosted by the rain and has a chance to burn. Toxic wears down bulkier Pokemon and cripples foes such as Latios and Latias that don't really mind a Scald even if it burns. Encore prevents Politoed from being taken advantage of by setup sweepers, and allows it to take advantage of defensive Pokemon that have just used a support move by locking them into the move. Rest is an important form of recovery. Allowing it to switch in more often to get up rain.



ludicolo.png

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast


One of the few special rain sweepers available. I've opted for Ludicolo over Kingdra and Omastar for a few reasons. Mainly being able to threaten apposing water types such as Manaphy, Rotom-W, (M) Slowbro, Azumarill, and Keldeo with STAB grass while being quad resistant to water is amazing. Of course Ludicolo doesn't have enough bulk to continually switch into attacks. Couple that with life orb recoil and it's life span can easily be ended short. Still though it's able to fulfill it's role adequately well.

The given EVs' maximize Ludicolo's Speed while providing as much punch as possible. Life Orb boost Ludicolo's Hydro Pump to terrifying levels of power and usable levels for its other moves. A Modest nature is used to boost Ludicolo's power further.

Hydro Pump is a monstrous move when the rain is up. Scores many OHKOs and 2HKOs on Pokemon that do not resist it. Giga Drain is STAB and hits with decent power while also providing healing. Ice Beam is there to hit the Grass- and Dragon-types that resist both of Ludicolo's STAB moves. Focus Blast is for hitting predicted Ferrothorn switch-ins.



tornadus-therian.png


Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Taunt
- Knock Off



Tornadus-T melds very well with a rain dedicated team. Resisting grass and access to STAB Hurricane that's 100% accurate in rain. Tornadus-T is able to nail the grass types that plague rain abusers such as M-Swampert, hard. Accompany that with coverage that can break down and neuter certain Pokemon that cause issues for rain teams makes it a phenomenal addition.

76 Attack EVs allow Tornadus-T to OHKO standard support Tyranitar and offensive Excadrill with Superpower. Maximum Speed investment with a Speed-boosting so that Tornadus-T can outspeed as many Pokemon as possible and at least Speed tie with opposing Tornadus-T. The remaining EVs go into Special Attack to maximize Hurricane's power.

Hurricane is Tornadus-T's best STAB move, with its bad accuracy being mitigated by rain. Superpower is more accurate than Focus Blast and hits specially bulky Pokemon like Assault Vest Raikou and Chansey harder. Knock Off is mainly used for utility as opposed to damage. Such as knocking off Chansey's evolite. With no rapid spinner Taunt is used to help prolong hazards from being set and status' being spread as well as stallbreaking more easily, and makes certain checks to Tornadus-T easier to take advantage of or wear down.



raikou.png

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball



High Speed, good Special Attack, and Electric typing allows Raikou to check threats such as Thundurus, Talonflame, Manaphy, and Serperior to just name a few.

252 EVs in Speed with a Timid nature allow Raikou to speed tie with Starmie and other Raikou while being able to outrun threats such as Serperior and Thundurus. 252 EVs in Special Attack maxmimises Raikou's damage output. An Assault Vest enables Raikou to more comfortably switch into special attackers such as Thundurus, Mega Manectric, Manaphy, Keldeo, and Mega Charizard Y.

Under rain, Raikou gets the luxury of being able to use a 100% accurate Thunder. Thunder itself also has an added bonus of a 30% paralysis chance. Though the power change from Thunderbolt to Thunder isn't huge. The added power and paralysis chance is nice. Volt Switch gives it a safe move to pivot and wear down defensive threats with. Hidden Power Ice is compulsory coverage to hit Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp, which otherwise completely wall Raikou. I still haven't decided on the last move slot. Being able to threaten M-Venusaur is nice. But so is 2HKOing Latios with Shadow Ball.


ferrothorn.png

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect


Ferrothorn and Rain go together like peanut butter & chocolate. Many would-be problematic Pokemon are held at bay thanks to its unique set of resistances and bulk as well as both of it's supportive and offensive moves.

I've opted for the standard EV and move set. It seems to work so far. Any suggestions on improvement are welcome.

Though Protect may seem as an odd choice. Considering it waste a turn of rain. It has come in handy. Combining it with Leech Seed and Politoad's toxic performs wonderfully as well as helping my scout out moves.



 
Pretty decent rain team, but it definitely needs some improvement like you said. I think more type coverage is definitely needed on the team, but still some way you can recieve support. Blastoise carries rapid spin and Rain Dish, so it's great for support. There are also two Swift Swim users that might work well, Beartic and Armaldo. They types and movepools are definitely worth looking at. That's all I got, hope I helped.
 
I'm a bit too tired and inexperienced with rain to give a good rate, but I can try a couple points:

Mega Charizard Y gives you some trouble outside of Raikou. Raikou is a solid check to it, definitely, but watch out if it goes down early. Energy Ball Manaphy again potentially forces you to rely on Raikou, and this puts some pressure on it. Ludicolo is there but if it goes down, all eyes are on Raikou.

I guess what I'm saying is you've got Raikou doing a lot of jobs, checking Sp. Attackers. It could use a hand, at a glance anyway. It has no recovery to speak of so it can get worn down. Also, I like the use of Power-Up Punch on M. Swampert, that's a great setup/coverage move.

Edit: actually probably the most important thing you need is hazard control. Tornadus and Raikou particularly don't like phasing damage.
 
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I'm a bit too tired and inexperienced with rain to give a good rate, but I can try a couple points:

Mega Charizard Y gives you some trouble outside of Raikou. Raikou is a solid check to it, definitely, but watch out if it goes down early. Energy Ball Manaphy again potentially forces you to rely on Raikou, and this puts some pressure on it. Ludicolo is there but if it goes down, all eyes are on Raikou.

I guess what I'm saying is you've got Raikou doing a lot of jobs, checking Sp. Attackers. It could use a hand, at a glance anyway. It has no recovery to speak of so it can get worn down. Also, I like the use of Power-Up Punch on M. Swampert, that's a great setup/coverage move.

Edit: actually probably the most important thing you need is hazard control. Tornadus and Raikou particularly don't like phasing damage.

I've noticed that as well. Raikou seems to be pretty heavily burdened. The problem is I'm unsure as how to reduce that burden.

I am very, very, very well aware of my hazard problem. The issue is I have no clue on how to actually fix it. This is why I opted for Taunt over U-turn on Tornadus-T. Just to help mitigate the problem. I have no clue on who to remove in order to even add a rspid spinner/defogger

The team synergy is there. But I'm having problems figuring out how to move the pieces around to better patch the holes.
 
Bro, with your hazard issue run a zapdos over raikou on your team, with this set
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 176 HP / 200 SpA / 132 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Volt Switch
- Defog
- Heat Wave
Hidden power is mainly for quagsire, having enough sp att to 1HKO quagsire, volt switch is your main stab move. Defog is for your hazard weakness, and heat wave fis for your weakness to ferrothorn with power whip and gyro ball.
 
Alright, hopefully I can help a little more reliably now. I agree with the Zapdos suggestion in general, although I'm dicey on the HP Grass.
I think that you could afford to swap Protect for Power Whip on Ferrothorn, personally. I don't see much use in Protect outside of somewhat uncommon toxic stalling and Leftovers. That opens up a slot for either HP Ice or Roost on Zapdos.

I can't think of anything to take pressure off of Zapdos, but the bright side is it'll be able to keep itself healthy if it has Roost. You're a little weaker to Latios but at least M. Swampert, Ludicolo, and Tornadus-T don't mind taking on that challenge.
 
*facepalm* I honestly never even though of Zapdos as an option. It completely left my mind.

I'm definitely going to give this a shot. But I'm going with gyarayquaza's suggestions. HP Ice > HP Grass on Zapdoes and Power whip > Protect.

I'm gonna give this a shot and see how it works. I'll edit this post with a few replays

---Edit---

These are some of the better replays. I've noticed I have a weakness toward Mega Gardevoir while playtesting. basically nothing can safely switch in. Even Ferrothorn is killed by a Hyper Voice+Focus Blast. Other than that it's been performing well

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-395766721

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-395786548

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-395780834

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-395777106

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-395769331
 
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hello, interesting rain team we have here, rain teams are teams definitely very flexible, having the ability to utilize different rain abusers to have certain advantages, in spite of everything, your team has some problems against some common threats to rain teams, first of all I find the greatest weakness in mega charizard Y, mega charizard y is a strong Wallbreaker canceling rain and threatens your team with his moves, even if your team has a countermeasure in raikou, I think that since the common charizard mega y's partners are Excadrill and Tyranitar, raikou can work very little against this pokemon, since it is easily pressed from these; Another weakness is very difficult to manage is bisharp, Bisharp can easily to use swords dance against Ferrothorn, and weaken the abusers with sucker punch, Bisharp finally puts pressure Politoed, removing the damp rock, and therefore making less effective the rain; Another big threat is keldeo, Keldeo, especially specs version, takes advantage of the rain to make its even more lethal blows, and then putting Tornadus-Therian under pressure along with the rest of the team, your only countermeasure is the revenge kill with Tornadus-t, Ludicolo and raikou, but I think that the lack of a switch to Keldeo forces your team to close in on defensive plays, trying to generate momentum and make double switches aggressive, and then assume an attitude too locked in battle; Two other major threats are Volcanion and mega lopunny, volcanion, as I said above with Keldeo, it is difficult to play around, but even here you have the revenge killers to bring it down, instead it is a powerful mega lopunny wallbrekaer who can delete your members and stall the rain turns using fake out, and here you've only got the revenge killers, but lopunny is more difficult to deal with, because usually runs along with solids defensive pivot that can handle, or put pressure on your abusers, as rotom-w, Tornadus Therian; finally, very dangerous are the sand builds and mega medicham, a component of sand builds, as Excadrill, can put pressure on your team, given the lack of a real switch, and being forced to put back the rain, you may lose Politoed, and then losing the War weather, mega Medicham instead it is a bit like mega lopunny, although its slower than it makes more vulnerable to Tornadus-t, raikou, but that does not mean it is weaker mega lopunny fact your team only has some revenge killers, at least a situational switch as a countermeasure to deal with it would be a good choice. my rate will be seeking to match up against these threats, making them less hazardous, and of course keeping the team idea.

latias.png
>
tornadus-therian.png

Seen your lack of switches for Volcanion, Keldeo, mega charizard y, suggest using latias over tornandus-therian, Latias is a great Pokemon for the team, as well as being a good switch for pokemon listed above, provides a switch in more for Thundurus and mega venusair, that are boring for the team finally is a great pokemon able to have a lot of more longevity Tornadus-t, doing pretty much the same role as Tornadus-t, also against Latias is a good countermeasure for mega Medicham being able to enter the HJK and then shoot with draco meteor, finally Latias has the ability to remove hazards, but this also it can not serve because we removed Tornadus-t (one of the few to suffer the hazards in the team)

garchomp.png
>
raikou.png

With the addition of Latias, the team has become even more vulnerable to Bisharp, Excadrill, tyranitar, mega Scizor, and threats such as mega lopunny and band / DD Terrakion can give a hard time to your team, then I'd suggest you to use tankchomp over raikou, putting tankchomp, make your team a lot more solid against these threats and offensive SD talonflame is no longer a problem now, since before neither raikou it could stop it, it also provides a great Phazing, which allows to weaken threats as charizard y much more easily finally putting stealth rocks and due to its great combination rought skin and helmet, can weaken even more mega Medicham, and all other physical attackers as Landorus, Scizor, and Bisharp Terrakion and mega Heracross.

ferrothorn.png

Since we already have a rock setter, I would use spikes over stealth rock, This would make your team even more dangerous given the option of using stealth rock + Spikes, thus weakening the various threats to the team, the combination hazard stack + dragon tail is incredible, this always weakens more opposing team, I would recommend to utilize healing wish on latias if you decide to use spikes, so as sort of countermeasure if your wincon is temporarily weakened and needs to be cured, but if you decide to use defog on latias, I would suggest to use Power whip over stealth rock, power whip provides more control against manaphy and Azumarill, finally i'd suggest utilize chople berry over leftovers, Chople berry allows Ferrothorn to control threats like gengar, Gardevoir mega, mega Alakazam, mega Medicham, Azumarill and Keldeo much better than before.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Power Whip / Spikes

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Defog / Healing Wish
- Roost
- Psyshock

That's all man, hope i've helped and GL with the team :toast:
 
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hello rain interesting team we have here, rain teams are teams definitely very flexible, having the ability to utilize different rain abusers to have certain advantages, in spite of everything, your team has some problems against some common threats to rain teams, first of all I find the greatest weakness in mega charizard Y, mega charizard y is a strong Wallbreaker canceling rain and threatens your team with his moves, even if your team has a countermeasure in raikou, I think that since the common charizard mega y's partners are Excadrill and Tyranitar, raikou can work very little against this pokemon, since it is easily pressed from these; Another weakness is very difficult to manage is bisharp, Bisharp can easily to use swords dance against Ferrothorn, and weaken the abusers with sucker punch, Bisharp finally puts pressure Politoed, removing the damp rock, and therefore making less effective the rain; Another big threat is keldeo, Keldeo, especially specs version, takes advantage of the rain to make its even more lethal blows, and then putting Tornadus-Therian under pressure along with the rest of the team, your only countermeasure is the revenge kill with Tornadus-t, Ludicolo and raikou, but I think that the lack of a switch to Keldeo forces your team to close in on defensive plays, trying to generate momentum and make double switches aggressive, and then assume an attitude too locked in battle; Two other major threats are Volcanion and mega lopunny, volcanion, as I said above with Keldeo, it is difficult to play around, but even here you have the revenge killers to bring it down, instead it is a powerful mega lopunny wallbrekaer who can delete your members and stall the rain turns using fake out, and here you've only got the revenge killers, but lopunny is more difficult to deal with, because usually runs along with solids defensive pivot that can handle, or put pressure on your abusers, as rotom-w, Tornadus Therian; finally, very dangerous are the sand builds and mega medicham, a component of sand builds, as Excadrill, can put pressure on your team, given the lack of a real switch, and being forced to put back the rain, you may lose Politoed, and then losing the War weather, mega Medicham instead it is a bit like mega lopunny, although its slower than it makes more vulnerable to Tornadus-t, raikou, but that does not mean it is weaker mega lopunny fact your team only has some revenge killers, at least a situational switch as a countermeasure to deal with it would be a good choice. my rate will be seeking to match up against these threats, making them less hazardous, and of course keeping the team idea.

latias.png
>
tornadus-therian.png

Seen your lack of switches for Volcanion, Keldeo, mega charizard y, suggest using latias over tornandus-therian, Latias is a great Pokemon for the team, as well as being a good switch for pokemon listed above, provides a switch in more for Thundurus and mega venusair, that are boring for the team finally is a great pokemon able to have a lot of more longevity Tornadus-t, doing pretty much the same role as Tornadus-t, also against Latias is a good countermeasure for mega Medicham being able to enter the HJK and then shoot with draco meteor, finally Latias has the ability to remove hazards, but this also it can not serve because we removed Tornadus-t (one of the few to suffer the hazards in the team)

garchomp.png
>
raikou.png

With the addition of Latias, the team has become even more vulnerable to Bisharp, Excadrill, tyranitar, mega Scizor, and threats such as mega lopunny and band / DD Terrakion can give a hard time to your team, then I'd suggest you to use tankchomp over raikou, putting tankchomp, make your team a lot more solid against these threats and offensive SD talonflame is no longer a problem now, since before neither raikou it could stop it, it also provides a great Phazing, which allows to weaken minace as charizard y much more easily finally putting stealth rocks and due to its great combination rought skin and helmet, can weaken even more mega Medicham, and all other physical attackers as Landorus, Scizor, and Bisharp Terrakion and mega Heracross.

ferrothorn.png

Since we already have a rock setter, I would use spikes over stealth rock, This would make your team even more dangerous given the option of using stealth rock + Spikes, thus weakening the various threats to the team, the combination hazard stack + dragon tail is incredible, this always weakens more opposing team, I would recommend to utilize healing wish on latias if you decide to use spikes, so as sort of countermeasure if your wincon is temporarily weakened and needs to be cured, but if you decide to use defog on latias, I would suggest to use Power whip over stealth rock, power whip provides more control against manaphy and Azumarill, finally i'd suggest utilize chople berry over leftovers, Chople berry allows Ferrothorn to control threats like gengar, Gardevoir mega, mega Alakazam, mega Medicham, Azumarill and Keldeo much better than before.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Power Whip / Spikes

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Defog / Healing Wish
- Roost
- Psyshock

That's all man, hope i've helped and GL with the team :toast:

Very much appreciated! Though different, i can totally see how these changes would help. I'll give them a test run when i get the chance. Thanks.
 
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