Major Leads

Artillery

Right know, there are some very big leads such as Stealthpert, Double status gengar, and Grass Rope and Psychic Starmie since it can counter both. I have been attempting to make a team that can counter almost the entire list since there is no gaurantee that my pokemon will live long enough to beat the pokemon on the threat list or that my pokemon is only there for one threat and nothing else and so there is no gaurantee of certain victory unless you know your opponents team. So right know, I am planning for a counter to counter all possible leads. Starmie sounds good but it can be countered easily too. Like I said, there are no guarantes so I really need a counter list. The threat list has been useful for everything except leads. I mentioned three threats, do any of you members have any other ideas about current or possible leads? I will update this list regularly with more suggestions and ideas.

Leads
  • Stealthpert
  • Double Status Gengar
  • Grass Rope and Psychic Starmie
  • TrickScarfZam
  • Aerial Ace Hera
  • AGMence
  • F. Orb Swellow
  • LumBro
  • Hippowdon
  • Bronzong w/ EQ
  • ChoiceMence
  • Garchomp
  • Weavile
  • Mamoswine
  • Cresselia
Possible Leads

Yanmega w/ hypnosis
Restalk Bronzong
Roserade
Special Sweeper Blissey
 
Alakazam @ Adherence Scarf
252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
<Synchronize>
~ Trick
~ Psychic
~ Grass Rope
~ Calm Mind

Metagame'd! A gimmick set that might be fun, since there's been a lot of talk about AScarf Gengar leads on WiFi. Also beats your other two starters, for what it's worth. I'm not going to try too hard to get into the science of leads until I can actually play on WiFi myself, though.
 
Everything is a possible lead. I personally think picking a "good" lead Pokemon isn't too important...if you are able to have a major impact on turn one you have been at an advantage right off the bat due to team or skill advantage. The only Pokemon I wouldn't lead with are probably Dugtrio, Magnezone and my intended end-game sweeper (like Raikou on a team based around killing Raikou's counters).
 
I love this thing as a lead;

Yanmega @ Leftovers ** 4jfly
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 116 HP / 176 Spd / 216 Satk
Modest Nature (+Satk, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Hypnosis
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Bug Upheaval

Protect against the stuff you're not faster than, then Hypnosis.
Air Slash is for crap like Hera leads, Bug Upheavel can make it an awesome thing to be paired with Gyarados (lol Azelf). Hidden Power [Ice] is for random stuff like Mence who could otherwise DD up and be gay
and yes I am shit at naming sets

although I like the look of that zam lead above this post

I also used restalk bronzong with h ice/grass rope/rest/sleep talk as a lead for ages before people realised just how hera weak life is and started using him as a lead
 
If X becomes popular, then Y becomes popular to counter it, then Z becomes popular to counter Y. If you're looking for any kind of pattern, a good lead is generally something very fast, something with a sleep move or something that doesn't die easily. Ideally, a combination of two or even three of those.
 
I like the idea of doing that with bronzong but I think another jolly AScarf 31 IV 252 EV speed Hera with aerial Ace could work to kill all other possible hera threats and yanmega if lucky. It could counter Zam and Starmie with blade test or shadow claw, if with shadow claw, it can murder Gengar, and that makes it a fairly good lead. Will be added.
 
Choice Glasses Mence works as a starter with Meteoric Swarm/Dragon Pulse/Overheat/Hydro Pump.

Flame Orb Swellow with protect/facade/somersault/filler could work as well.
 
I actually think staraptor will be more common with choice band and somersault since it has in fight to go along with it + intimidate.
 
I was actually thinking about this a while ago, the best I could come up with Slowbro- basically the same principle as picking Starmie... I was even considering Lum Berry to turn the tables on fast sleepers. Starmie will always be better for outspeeding Gyarados/Heracross/Salamence, though.
 
I wouldn't want to even show Infernape until late game, since it's such a good sweeper, but maybe that's just me.
 
No, me too. I don't like the idea of showing your "trump card" too early. Bring it out when it's counter is dead or sufficiently weakened. Show it early and your opponent will be less likely to sacrifice their counter.

I'd hide Infernape, Azelf and the like as long as possible.
 
Well, countering everything is hard. I would avoid leading with a main sweeper or wall, especially those that can be trapped and killed. All ADV leads should work, along with new Pokemon that follow in the same suit.

Slow and bulky:
Slowbro
Swampert
Hippowdon
Bronzong *Only with EQ

Sweeper-esque Leads:
Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Crobat
AGMence
CBChomp
Zapdos
Staraptor
AS Medicham/Heracross (Not CB versions)
Alakazam
 
I'd use them first then have a second trump card that can kill everything that they get killed by, screwing their trump card while still using it as a minor trump card for other pokemon, calling it my scapegoat with some punch. I'll add some of those monsters right know.
 
I like to start with AGMence, basically Intimidate whatever they have, and if that Pokemon is something like Gyarados I can find myself an easy switch into Blissey to scare it off.

Or, if the opponent starts out with something that's scared of AGMence, they would sometimes expect the physical set (or if they do know it was an AGMence, they go to part 2). Cresselia/Bulky Waters/Skarmory gets all dented by AG'ed Meteoric Swarm (Cresselia actually takes a rather insane amounts of damage. Ask Megamiz). These pokemon would be rather hard to utilize at that point (except Cresselia, sorta, but in that case this also falls under part 2), so I can finish off the scraps for later.

Part 2: If they send in Blissey/Cresselia to absorb the Meteors, they'd invite a free Heracross switch in. They have 3 options:
1) Ice Beam. They Ice Beam the Heracross switch in. Now Bliss is a little safer at this point because it takes less on Meteors, but this is a near checkmate situation for Blissey if it doesn't carry Protect
2) Softboiled/Moonlight: Bliss would be back at full health. Cresselia, however, won't.
3) Thunder Wave: Wow you just gave me a Guts boost!

In both of these cases, AND Blissey, risk taking a Pursuit if they switch, unless they carry Protect. This also shifts the opponent's prediction and makes them more careful in this situation. If they switch expecting a Megahorn, this allows Salamence to sweep again.

This is an example of how a starting pokemon can be used to finish up the remaining stuff in the later game.

Intimidate is a great weapon vs. Weavile/Landshark/other physical leads. This very well allows me to set up Spikes/Stealth Rock, and even can allow Blissey to scare them off for fun (look at Gyarados and physical Salamence)
 
AGmence and physical mence are both threats, will be added right know. I'm worried about that lead though. It can screw a lot of stuff. Just thought about it and Utility Roserade could really mess with you. Something like leaf storm, shadow ball, aromatherapy, and spikes. Leaf Storm is there to mess with pert, who might A)Flee B) Snow Slide C)Stealth rock. Hoping that its A or B, you can spike, hurting the switch. Then you could A) Flee B) Spike again and die C) switch to something that resists then come in later and spike again. I doubt it'll see much use but it could help. This thing can mess with blissey slightly if you put leech seed over shadow ball and abuse the ability to spike, aromatherapy it's thunderwaves, and ditch. Good luck using this though. I'll add it in possible threats.
 
Salamence troubles me greatly. If it carries EQ over Dragon Pulse it can be prepared for damn near anything. Empoleon, oddly enough, could be a "standard" AGMence counter, until they start carrying EQ instead of DP, say.

Seriously, what the fuck counters CGMence? CSHera leads, lol.
 
Blissey and Empoleon and prediction and extremely special defensive Cresselia are the only ones I can think of that counters AGMence, and all of them gets wiped out by Heracross.
 
Blissey, Cresselia and Empoleon. Suicune and Milotic with lots of special defense. Outside of that, predicition - same with all Choice item users. Salamence is just a little more difficult due it's STAB move being only resisted by Steels.
 
Heatran comes close, but gets owned by Hydro Pump if it has to switch in. Sala's gonna run if Heatran starts alongside it, though, so I think it's worthy of mention. Especially if you consider it outspeeds everything with CScarf and does massive damage with Dragon Pulse.

Still, yeah, CGMence is rediculous. At least it's hard for him to find openings to come in with Stealth Rock up.

EDIT: Cresselia is really iffy since you'd need max+SD and max or near-max HP AND Moonlight, and then you can't ever OHKO Sala or Chomp.
 
Phuquoph said:
Blissey, Cresselia and Empoleon. Suicune and Milotic with lots of special defense. Outside of that, predicition - same with all Choice item users. Salamence is just a little more difficult due it's STAB move being only resisted by Steels.
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Too true but using a Bronzong might help if max Sp. Attack is used plus reflect. A physical one wil get owned if it only has earthquake.
 
Still, yeah, CGMence is rediculous. At least it's hard for him to find openings to come in with Stealth Rock up.
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Well at least Stealth Rock doesn't hurt him as much as the pokemon on the ground, who gets hurt by Spikes AND Stealth Rock
 
Isn't it 3 spikes of any type total? So 2 spikes = 12.5% + Stealth Rock = 12.5%? Or is it 3 Spikes + 1 Stealth Rock?
 
Nope:
You can put 3 Spikes AND a Stealth Rock, which explains why I have been doing insane amounts of damage on WiFi trainers

EDIT: Let's not forget about Poison Spikes
 
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