Mamosweep with no Magnezone?

Luphrous

Oh well title could probably be better but whatever. In the event someone really thinks I'm crazy for trying a Mamosweep without Magnezone, let me just say that I've been doing this for a very long time, Magnezone is most certainly not needed, nor are his weaknesses to Fire and Fighting which I have plenty of already. As for helping out Mamo, I have hail. MixMamo is a real beast, only Bronzong and Cresselia can switch in safely. The hail also serves the purpose of negated Leftovers recovery of nearly every wall in the game, and allowing my SubSeed tactics to wear down walls much quicker. Apart from hail for Mamo's Blizzard and for negating Lefties, Hail does nothing else for me, and so I don't actually consider this a Hail team, despite Abomasnow's presence. None of that stuff was really important but I figured I'd put it there in case someone wanted to read it. Anyways. here's the Team
gliscor.png

Gliscor@Choice Scarf
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 200 Hp, 96 Att, 212 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn

While thinking of SR's who didn't lose to Heracross, obviously Gliscor game along. I didn't think the idea of a wall that just...walls stuff really fit the team though. Then, I decided to see how it did with a Choice Scarf slapped on it. I've only played a few games with him, so his spot is hardly set in stone, however I've been very impressed thus far. Obviously with no Lefties and the Hail, he isn't a permanent answer, but repeated switch ins on SR + Hail wear down Heracross too. EdgeQuake for coverage. Stone Edge takes out both Salamence and Gyarados after SR, and I outspeed them if they have 1 DD. U-turn is of course a lovely way to keep the momentum on my side. Hyper Cutter because the chance of him switching in while it Hails is obviously pretty high, not to mention it means I can take out Mence/Dos if I predict correctly. EVs outspeed Timid Scarftran by 1 point.
heatran.png

Heatran@Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Sp. Attack, 4 Att
Nature: Hasty
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- HP: Ice
- Explosion

Man, all these Naive ScarfTrans running around lately are a real downer. I used to outspeed all the others back when everyone went Modest, but now I pretty much never even risk the coin flip :/ Apart from that, he's here to serve as the Revenge Killer. Absorbs the Fire Attacks that can be dangerous to this team, not to mention his bulkiness/resists allow him continuously switch in, something that can't be said of many Scarfers. Provides insurance against quite a few big threats in today's metagame, Scizor, Lucario, and Skymin to name a few. Not much else to be said really, it's Heatran and it does what it does best.
abomasnow.png

Abomasnow@Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Hp, 20 Sp. Attack, 160 Sp. Def, 76 Spe
Nature: Sassy
- Blizzard
- Focus Punch
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Very bulky set to allow easy switch ins to Water types, and other stuff that can't really hurt him. Provides the Hail for Mamo, and is also a wonderful SubSeeder, hitting Grass types that are immune with STAB Blizzard. When well played, this guy can really screw over a team. Hail/SR/Leech Seed adds up quick, not to mention he always carries the threat of STAB Blizzard/Focus Punch. SubSeeding's other wonderful advantage is how often I can see several members of the opponents team early game, easing prediction for me with my other pokes. Not to mention Hail can give away Choice Items. Overall does very good in this team, supports Mamo with Hail, and softens up the other team.
breloom.png

Breloom@Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Att, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Nature: Jolly
- Focus Punch
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

The second part of my double SubSeeding team, Breloom also brings along is 100% accurate Spore. With Hypnosis' lowered accuracy scaring away many, retaining my ability to Sleep a foe is a wonderful advantage. Breloom serves a similar purpose to Abomasnow, softening up the opposition, disrupting with Sleep, and again causing many switches that rack up SR damage. I really love this thing, it's not even funny what Breloom can do to an unprepared team. Jolly nature cause I'm a speed freak.
starmie.png

Starmie@Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd, 252 Sp. Att, 4 Hp
Nature: Timid
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Starmies ability to switch in an immediately outspeed and threaten many threats is simply amazing. Also has those resists to Fire and Fighting, making it even more valuable to this team. Max Speed/Sp. Attack cause I prefer my Starmie to be offensive, taking hits harder is sometimes a drawback, but usually I can just Recover on the switch if need be, otherwise the extra firepower is very helpful.
mamoswine.png

Mamoswine@Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 236 Att, 252 Spe, 20 Sp. Att
Nature: Naive
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge

Wouldn't be a Mamosweep without Mamoswine now would it? Took 16 EVs out of Attack rather than Speed cause I prefer max in order to tie other Jolly Mamos. Set is pretty standard, Blizzard ravages physical walls, EQ/Ice Shard hit hard, SE covers the few types left over. I'm convinced this is one of the best finishers in the game, though with the current metagame, there are actually a few other endgame pokes that I lose to, namely LOCune and Scizor, but CMJirachi can also be a problem for Mamo. Really this is why it's important I be in control of the game from the start, if I can get my opponent to have to use their endgame poke before me, I can usually pick it off so that Mamo doesn't lose to it. It's a slight problem, but I've been able to control the game like I need to so it has not become a big problem yet.

Overall: Basically Uxie does its thing early game, and then Abomasnow/Breloom toy around with the opposition from there. Starmie/Heatran are able to switch in on things that threaten my two Subseeders, and both are fast enough to be immediate threats. However, this team does have its problems. The Fire/Fighting weak can be played around, but only if I keep the number of weaks where they are now. That means possible replacements for Uxie can't be weak to Fire/Fighting. Also, I'm sometimes worried by the fact that the team is fast, but not as fast as my usual teams are. I like to rely on outspeeding, and sometimes I just don't feel fast enough, even though admittedly this is already a fairly fast team.
 
A sturdy trick and rock lead is Metagross, although the fire weakness wouldn't do it for you.

You said Scizor twice in the Heatran explaination.

Heracross of all versions walk all over this team and I really can't see an easy way of getting out of it. You can consider replacing Starmie with a bulky Gyarados, who can take megahorn better. He also boasts fire and fighting resist and has intimidate. If you don't like no recovery, a rest-talk gyara can work, although I have never used one before.
 
rotom wash can help with that
you can use
rotom (w)@choice scarf
timid 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 Spe
-shadow ball/thunderbolt
-hydropump/thunderbolt
-reflect
-trick

this will allow you to handle hera considerably well. It may not be a definite "counter" but it can certainly switch in a few times. remember you dont have to trick right away. you can set up a fast reflect and switch out to use rotom as an emergency gyra revenge killer or revenge killer in general. He will also help against those annoying scizors if your heatran runs into a water or earth move.With this EV spread, you can also outspeed luke, and reflect in his face, before or after you trick.

i suggest you revise your starmie's EVs to 160 HP / 132 SpA / 216 Spe. This will make it able to counter most gyrados. He can come in on a DD, take a hit and OHKO back with thunderbolt. You can take some SpA EVs to HP if you want to be able to counter all gyaras.

other than that, great team!
 
newbioform: Fixed the Scizor thing, thanks for catching that. Also, I'm not sure what to make of Heracross. Looking over my team, he's obviously going to cause trouble. Thing is, I've run teams that should have beem mopped up by him before, and yet they just never were. Truth be told, I'm yet to come across one with this team, so I'm going to continue testing before making changes, however I'll definitely be paying attention to how my team does when he comes along.
Nihilus: Thanks for the suggestion, however retaining SR is more important to me that having Trick.
Warthog: That sentence isn't really clear, do you mean switch out Breloom for Gengar?
 
newbioform said:
A sturdy trick and rock lead is Metagross, although the fire weakness wouldn't do it for you.

You said Scizor twice in the Heatran explanation.

Heracross of all versions walk all over this team and I really can't see an easy way of getting out of it. You can consider replacing Starmie with a bulky Gyarados, who can take megahorn better. He also boasts fire and fighting resist and has intimidate. If you don't like no recovery, a rest-talk gyara can work, although I have never used one before.
Click to expand...
I agree with him a scarfed Heracross would massacre this team very easily.
Try getting a metagross or Zapdos with heatwave. A Zapdos like this could cover you :

Zapdos (w)@choice scarf
Modest 252 Sp.Atk/252 Spe
-thunderbolt
-Heat Wave
-HP grass/Hp ice
-Signal Beam

Reason for this set is because Signal Beam OHKO almost all grass types and a C.scarf Zapdos out speeds a C.scarf Timid Heatran even on Modest nature which will let you do a lot of damage with Thunderbolt 60-80% of damage ....HP ice is to counter Garchomp's replacement (Salamence)... but Thunderbolt hits Salamence harder than HP ice when Salamence is holding yache berry so HP grass would be better because it hits ground types as well and with do 99-100% of damage to Swampert. Thunderbolt for STAB against the bulky water types like Suicune.
 
I wouldn't go with Breloom if I was you. Your opponent is spamming 100% accurate Blizzards since you have given them hail and Breloom is really too slow.

But then again what are the odds of meeting a team with blizzard? But still I wouldn't go with Breloom.

....

Now time for a replacement. Well Starmie has to go... DDLO Gyara is a 6-0 with one DD. So with that in mind I would replace Starmie with a Vappy since it can provide wish support for Gliscor.

I also really don't like your plan of leading with a scarfGliscor. I would replace it with something else that can beat Heracross AND set up spikes ect. You guessed it! NIDOQUEEN. I would run a resttalk set with flamethrower so you can take status as well as set up some toxic spikes which will benefit Mamoswine more in the long run than stealth rock since most flying types are beaten by Ice Fang.

HeatWave Zapdos isn't the most friendly poke to this team... You could try a CBTar over Obama if you want lol. This way you can keep Breloom and now you have yourself a hard hitting physical threat that is walled by stuff like Swampert. With Breloom you easily dispose of that problem now don't you. Oh wait Breloom needs Seed Bomb to get some damage on swampert and Gyarados since Mamoswine generally doesn't enjoy BulkyWaters.

And finally I would replace Blizzard with Ice Fang on Mamoswine if you do decide to go with sandstorm.

Just a few suggestions I made. At least try them out before turning them down.

So you end up with Nidoqueen/Tyranitar/Vaporeon/Heatran/Breloom/Mamoswine.

lol I replaced half your team. If it works of course.

Well hope I helped and peace
 
Actually the only reason someone would carry Blizzard is if they ran Hail teams themselves, not to mention that Ice Beams wreck Breloom anyways, no need for Blizzard. Anyways, I'm pretty determined to hold on to Breloom, a 100% accurate Sleep is enormously helpful in this metagame where people are too scared to try Hypnosis.

I'd prefer a Gliscor using SR to a Nidoqueen using TS because firstly, nearly all of the metagame's largest threats are immune to it(Gyara, Mence, Skymin, Heatran, Scizor, Lucario, Gengar, you get the picture). Secondly, removing SR would ruin the synergy I've got between Hail/Leech Seed/SR. Only Grass types are immune to LS, but w/ Hail they lose Lefties recovery and SR's damage sticks with them, not to mention Abomasnow beats all the Grassers trying to block his LS. Only Ice Types are able to avoid the Hail, and they of course take 25% from SR. LS/SR/Hail combine to form a neat little combo that racks up damage quickly, and so basically that's why I'm trying so hard to keep them. I also like Gliscor as a check to many threats, Mence/Dos with a DD, ScarfTran, and Lucario are all outsped and ko'ed by Gliscor. True he can't always switch in, but really I've always leaned to offensive playstyles and so it just fits me better.

Oh, and Gyara really doesn't 6-0 me. Breloom can take a +1 LO attack that isn't Ice Fang and put to sleep, if it carries Ice Fang then there's no SE, so Abomasnow can survive all his attacks. Not to mention Gliscor outspeeds and ko'es after SR, and Heatran can explode. And if all else fails, Mamo's Ice Shard does ~32-37%, and SR+LO+Hail will put him into that range pretty quickly.

I usually do try out suggestions just to see, but I feel like those changes just cost me too much synergy. But really, thanks for the suggestions I appreciate that you at least made an effort, and I of course don't mean to come off as a person who posts his team but isn't willing to change it.
 
Your team is almost 50% weak to blizzard .... it will do a lot of damage to Mamoswine and a lot to Abomasnow too it will OHKO Breloom and your Team is 50% fire weak if your Heatran gets KOed another Heatran will probably rape your team if Starmie dead.
 
LOgyra is nothing scoff at. It is a very serious threat actually. With that said, i still suggest the EV spread for starmie.

also, i find that stallrein would be wonderfull in place of breloom. It is very effective, and extremely annoying to get rid of. a toxic/surf/sub/protect stallrein will be rather effective.

i would also take the choicescarf off of gliscor. he doesn't have the attack to capitalize on being so fast. a normal roost/earthquake/SR/stone edge or U-turn gliscor will be fine.

oh and to the poster above, he only has 2 ice weaks on the team currently, and for heatran to rape, he still has to get rid of heatran AND starmie. thats not so easy to do my friend.
 
I was certainly not saying Gyarados is a small threat, I was just pointing out that DDLOGyara does not 6-0 me. I see no reason to switch to that EV spread as with SR down I'll almost always die anyways.

Meh, I prefer an offensive style, so even though this team is a bit slower than the average offensive team, in my mind it still is one. Stallrein really doesn't fit my taste.

As for Gliscor, he doesn't have to ko everything in sight, just get those extra hits in to put pokes in range for Mamo. Besides, I used to run a suicide lead in his place, which I didn't really like. If all Gliscor manages to do is set up SR, then frankly he's done as much as my old lead would have done. If he manages to come in and score a surprise hit/KO, then he's served his purpose.

ss4 hybrid: Firstly, only other Hail teams will even carry Blizzard. No one uses it hoping their opponent will set up Hail for them. Secondly, Mamo takes a lot yes, but this team aims for a Mamosweep. Mamo is endgame only, he shouldn't be taking Blizzards. And as for Abomasnow, look at my EV spread. He can take Blizzards just fine.
Also, of course my team loses to Fire type pokes when my counters for them are gone, saying something situational like that does not help me.
 
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