Marshadow [QC: 0/2]

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[Overview]
  • Marshadow is one of the most potent physical wallbreakers in the tier thanks to its many amazing qualities.
  • Its 125 base Speed allows it to get the jump on many of the best Pokemon in the tier and its typing grants it an unresisted STAB combination and a decent amount of defensive utility, such as an Extreme Speed immunity and a Stealth Rock resistance.
  • Spectral Thief's ability to steal the opponents stat boosts can thwart setup sweepers, thus giving Marshadow a chance at its own sweep as well as providing it with great team support.
  • A Technician boost to Shadow Sneak gives Marshadow good priority and lets it counter Pokemon that would normally out-speed it. Rock Tomb also provides it with speed control and recieves a Technician boost.
  • However, Marshadow's low bulk makes it very vulnerable to many attacks and it is OHKOd by nearly all supereffective moves.
  • It is also heavily reliant on Choice Band to deal the amount of damage it does, which can be exploited by a smart player.
  • Defensive teams can also deal with Marshadow relatively well by crippling it with any form of status and setting entry hazards which further cut into its low longevity.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Spectral Thief
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Rock Tomb / Ice Punch / Poltergeist
item: Choice Band
ability: Technician
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • This is Marshadow's most standard set. Spectral Thief is a strong STAB move and its ability to steal stat boosts can be a massive help against setup-based Pokemon.
  • Close Combat is Marshadow's strongest STAB move which allows it to always OHKO Pokemon like Blissey, Dialga, and both Kyurem forms.
  • A Technician-boosted Shadow Sneak allows Marshadow to threaten the few Pokemon that can out-speed and OHKO it, such as Calyrex-Shadow and Mewtwo.
  • Rock Tomb provides crucial coverage for Flying-types and gives Marshadow a form of speed control, further bolstering its team support capabilities.
  • Choice Band gives Marshadow the power it needs to break through offensive threats.

  • Because of Marshadow's fragility and lack of recovery, it should be relegated to revenge killing purposes or brought in from switch moves, otherwise it loses momentum against the defensive teams it can struggle against.
  • Its immunity to Normal-type moves can give it an opportunity to switch in safely and threaten the opposition, however.
  • Marshadow should be reserved for the late-game as a cleaner after its checks are removed from the match.
  • As such, Pokemon like Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and Dialga can be used to deal with Fairy- and Flying-types.
  • Special attackers such as Palkia can check Pokemon like Toxapex, which can cripple Marshadow with Knock Off.


[SET]
name: Offensive Attacker
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Spectral Thief / Poltergeist
move 4: Bulk Up / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch
item: Life Orb / Spell Tag
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • This set is focused exclusively on late-game cleaning. Life Orb is used over Choice Band to allow Marshadow to switch moves, especially crucial in the late-game, at the cost of recoil damage.
  • Spell Tag can be used instead of Life Orb to remove recoil damage while still maintaining a power boost to Marshadow's Ghost-type moves.
  • Close Combat is generally a powerful STAB move
  • Shadow Sneak allows Marshadow to get the jump on other fast late-game Pokemon like Mewtwo and Pheromosa.
  • Poltergeist is usually preferred over Spectral Thief due to Spectral Thief's ability to steal stat boosts usually not being important late-game, as well as Poltergeist's higher base power. However, Spectral Thief is still a viable option mostly due to its 100% accuracy, potentially providing a crucial safety net for Marshadow.
  • Bulk Up takes advantage of Pokemon switching out, allowing Marshadow to grab a free Attack and Defense boost to aid in the team-cleaning effort.
  • Rock Tomb also punishes switch-ins by lowering their speed.
  • Ice Punch can be used to deal with the tier's many Dragon-types and may significantly hamper the other team's ability to deal with Marshadow due to its freeze chance.

  • Life Orb's recoil means that Marshadow can struggle in its role as a late-game cleaner if it is used too much in the early- and mid-game stages.
  • If one absolutely needs to use Marshadow to muscle through an offensive threat before the late-game, it should be brought in with switch moves or after a teammate is KO'd and only for as few turns as possible.
  • Spell Tag somewhat alleviates this problem, but Marshadow loses power on its non-Ghost-type moves, making Bulk Up all but required if one chooses to use Spell Tag.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

  • Iron Head can be run in the fourth move slot for Fairy-type coverage and the flinch chance, which goes well with Marshadow's high speed, but it does not have much usage other than attempting to flinch Fairy-types into Shadow Sneak range. It is also fairly weak compared to Marshadow's other moves, as it does not recieve STAB or a Technician boost.
  • Drain Punch can be used over Close Combat to increase Marshadow's longevity on the Offensive Attacker set with Life Orb, but it is significantly weaker than Close Combat, losing the ability to OHKO Pokemon like defensive Kyurem-Black and Dialga.
  • Expert Belt is a choice for the item slot on the Offensive Attacker set, boosting all of Marshadow's moves and removing recoil, but this makes Marshadow struggle against neutral switch-ins.


Checks and Counters
====

**Buzzwole**:
  • Buzzwole can take any of Marshadow's hits very easily and recover with Roost. It can also neuter Marshadow's attacking power with Lunge or use it as setup fodder for Bulk Up.

**Bulky Dragon-types**:
  • Pokemon like Eternatus and Zygarde also tank Marshadow's attacks decently well, with Eternatus hitting it with a 100% accurate Toxic and Zygarde paralyzing Marshadow with Glare and setting up with Coil.
  • Zygarde can also take advantage of a Choice Band-locked Close Combat to potentially take over 50% damage, activating Power Construct.

**Xerneas**:
  • Xerneas easily OHKOs Marshadow with Moonblast and can easily set up a Geomancy, outspeeding Marshadow afterwards.
  • Xerneas does not want to switch in on Spectral Thief or Poltergeist on either set, however.

**Status**:
  • Marshadow very much dislikes any form of status.
  • Toxic cuts into its already fringe longevity, burns heavily cripple its offensive potential, and paralysis removes its ability to out-speed a vast majority of the metagame.

**Priority**:
  • Marshadow's immunites to Extreme Speed, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave are nice traits, though it is still vulnerable to other priority moves, which is exaggerated by Close Combat's defense drop. This can make Marshadow somewhat prone to revenge killing.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Pietrym, 554573]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
 
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Hi, the options you included in the OO section are good enough to get main set mentions, so we'd like to see this offensive attacking set written about alongside some small changes to the CB one.

name: Choice Band
move 1: Spectral Thief
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Ice Punch / Rock Tomb / Poltergeist
item: Choice Band
ability: Technician
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

name: Offensive Attacker
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Spectral Thief / Poltergeist
move 4: Bulk Up / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch
item: Life Orb / Spell Tag
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
 
Checks and counters section needs a lot of work, you are completely missing mentions of Buzzwole (who hard walls every marsh set), Zygarde (does well against anything thats not CB Ice Punch), or Eternatus (which outspeeds many Marshadow to force it out; Physical Defense sets can wall any Marshadow thats not CB Ice Punch). I dont know why you mentioned Yveltal using Oblivion Wing or Magaerna at all, they are not really relevant in the meta.
 
Comments in Blue
Additions in Green
Removals in Red


[Overview]
  • Marshadow is one of the most potent physical wallbreakers in the tier thanks to its many amazing qualities.
  • Its 125 base Speed allows it to get the jump on many of the best Pokemon in the tier and its typing grants it an unresisted STAB combination and a decent amount of defensive utility, such as an Extreme Speed immunity and a Stealth Rock resistance.
  • Spectral Thief's ability to steal the opponents stat boosts can thwart setup sweepers, thus giving Marshadow a chance at its own sweep as well as providing it with great team support.
  • A Technician boost to Shadow Sneak gives Marshadow good priority and lets it counter counter implies you can switch into it, change to smth like revenge kill or a similar term Pokemon that would normally out-speed it. Rock Tomb also provides it with speed control and recieves a Technician boost.
  • However, Marshadow's low bulk makes it very vulnerable to many attacks and it is OHKOd by nearly all supereffective moves.
  • It is also heavily reliant on Choice Band to deal the amount of damage it does, which can be exploited by a smart player. LO / Spell Tag sets are main ones now and deal a ton of damage themselves
  • Defensive teams can also deal with Marshadow relatively well by crippling it with any form of status and setting entry hazards which further cut into its low longevity.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Spectral Thief
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Rock Tomb / Ice Punch / Poltergeist
item: Choice Band
ability: Technician
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Re-order this and the other set to 252 atk / 4 def / 252 spe since that's the order they normally fall into

[SET COMMENTS]

  • This is Marshadow's most standard set. Spectral Thief is a strong STAB move and its ability to steal stat boosts can be a massive help against setup-based Pokemon.
  • Close Combat is Marshadow's strongest STAB move which allows it to always OHKO Pokemon like Blissey, Dialga, and both Kyurem forms Ferrothorn. (more relevant)
  • A Technician-boosted Shadow Sneak allows Marshadow to threaten the few Pokemon that can out-speed and OHKO it, such as Calyrex-Shadow and Mewtwo.
  • Rock Tomb provides crucial coverage for Flying-types and gives Marshadow a form of speed control, further bolstering its team support capabilities.
  • Explain Ice Punch and Poltergeist and their upsides since they're slashed with tomb
  • Choice Band gives Marshadow the power it needs to break through offensive threats. Give some examples here, this is a fairly vague statement. Offensive threats in particular can probably be broken by Marshadow even without band, it's the defensive ones that the power is nice for like Xerneas and Eternatus
  • Add why jolly > ada, giving the jump on things like Eternatus which commonly creeps ada marsh, but adamant's power with feats like potentially 2hko'ing bulky xerneas with poltergeist should be mentioned too

  • Because of Marshadow's fragility and lack of recovery, it should be relegated to revenge killing purposes or brought in from switch moves, otherwise it loses momentum against the defensive teams it can struggle against.
  • Its immunity to Normal-type moves can give it an opportunity to switch in safely and threaten the opposition, however. Being immune to normal is nice but there's almost no relevant normal coverage used in the tier
  • Marshadow should be reserved for the late-game as a cleaner after its checks are removed from the match. Not entirely true, Marshadow is good at punching holes for teammates as well since band spectral baits things like Eternatus
  • As such, Pokemon like Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and Dialga can be used to deal with Fairy- and Flying-types. NDM and Dialga don't really reliably deal with the main flyings, Ho-Oh and Rayquaza, since with their fire or ground coverage they can just blow through them. I think ndm is a good mention but dialga can be a separate mention as it baits in ho-oh and stuff. other teammates like Kyogre can be a flying check, walling ho-oh and pivoting into ray if it's defensive
  • Special attackers such as Palkia can check Pokemon like Toxapex, which can cripple Marshadow with Knock Off. I'd rarely hard palkia on a toxapex since that mon doesn't like taking knock or status itself
  • Add breakers that pressure Marshadow's shared checks like Groudon, also mention Ferrothorn for Spikes


[SET]
name: Offensive Attacker
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Spectral Thief / Poltergeist
move 4: Bulk Up / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch
item: Life Orb / Spell Tag
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • This set is focused exclusively on late-game cleaning. Life Orb is used over Choice Band to allow Marshadow to switch moves, especially crucial in the late-game, at the cost of recoil damage.
  • Spell Tag can be used instead of Life Orb to remove recoil damage while still maintaining a power boost to Marshadow's Ghost-type moves.
  • Close Combat is generally a powerful STAB move
  • Shadow Sneak allows Marshadow to get the jump on other fast late-game Pokemon like Mewtwo and Pheromosa.
  • Poltergeist is usually preferred over Spectral Thief due to Spectral Thief's ability to steal stat boosts usually not being important late-game, as well as Poltergeist's higher base power. However, Spectral Thief is still a viable option mostly due to its 100% accuracy, potentially providing a crucial safety net for Marshadow. Main set has spectral > polter so reword this, spectral has consistency but polter has the insane power for immediate breaking
  • Bulk Up takes advantage of Pokemon switching out, allowing Marshadow to grab a free Attack and Defense boost to aid in the team-cleaning effort.
  • Rock Tomb also punishes switch-ins by lowering their speed. Explain that it's for catching ho-oh and hitting yvel w/o defense drawback
  • Ice Punch can be used to deal with the tier's many Dragon-types and may significantly hamper the other team's ability to deal with Marshadow due to its freeze chance. Add that Zygarde is the main target, other dragons take a lot naturally from attacks
  • Add why ada > jolly nature, HO teams being 1 big one but also since lo and spell tag are weaker than band it needs more power on average

  • Life Orb's recoil means that Marshadow can struggle in its role as a late-game cleaner if it is used too much in the early- and mid-game stages.
  • If one absolutely needs to use Marshadow to muscle through an offensive threat before the late-game, it should be brought in with switch moves or after a teammate is KO'd and only for as few turns as possible.
  • Spell Tag somewhat alleviates this problem, but Marshadow loses power on its non-Ghost-type moves, making Bulk Up all but required if one chooses to use Spell Tag. bu isn't 100% required on spell tag, I've ran spell tag 4a just fine in tours, can explain how it's probably preferred but I wouldn't brush off the other options quickly
  • You haven't included any potential teammates for this section which is the main point of it. I'd first mention HO leads like aero or slurpuff for when paired with bulk up. Things like specs Kyogre is also a good partner on balance since it pressures etern and ho-oh if you're not running tomb. Just add natural teammates for an attacking set, there's more but those are a few


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

  • Iron Head can be run in the fourth move slot for Fairy-type coverage and the flinch chance, which goes well with Marshadow's high speed, but it does not have much usage other than attempting to flinch Fairy-types into Shadow Sneak range. It is also fairly weak compared to Marshadow's other moves, as it does not recieve STAB or a Technician boost.
  • Drain Punch can be used over Close Combat to increase Marshadow's longevity on the Offensive Attacker set with Life Orb, but it is significantly weaker than Close Combat, losing the ability to OHKO Pokemon like defensive Kyurem-Black and Dialga.
  • Expert Belt is a choice for the item slot on the Offensive Attacker set, boosting all of Marshadow's moves and removing recoil, but this makes Marshadow struggle against neutral switch-ins. (Both way too irrelevant and bad to be mentioned)
  • Sub + Swagger is a very niche set but it has some merit, being an easy way to hax through teams and force switches but it gives up sneak which is huge for not checking Caly anymore


Checks and Counters
====

**Buzzwole**:
  • Buzzwole can take any of Marshadow's hits very easily and recover with Roost. It can also neuter Marshadow's attacking power with Lunge or use it as setup fodder for Bulk Up.

**Bulky Dragon-types**:
  • Pokemon like Eternatus and Zygarde also tank Marshadow's attacks decently well, with Eternatus hitting it with a 100% accurate Toxic and Zygarde paralyzing Marshadow with Glare and setting up with Coil.
  • Zygarde can also take advantage of a Choice Band-locked Close Combat to potentially take over 50% damage, activating Power Construct.

**Xerneas**:
  • Xerneas easily OHKOs Marshadow with Moonblast and can easily set up a Geomancy, outspeeding Marshadow afterwards.
  • Xerneas does not want to switch in on Spectral Thief or Poltergeist on either set, however. Mention how defensive Xerneas can take on these moves, only offensive can't

**Status**:
  • Marshadow very much dislikes any form of status.
  • Toxic cuts into its already fringe longevity, burns heavily cripple its offensive potential, and paralysis removes its ability to out-speed a vast majority of the metagame. Add mentions of things that actually status it, Glare Zygarde is probably the main one but also Ho-Oh and stuff like that
**Regenerator Pivots**: Mention Toxapex and tang giving it a really hard time with knock, status, helmet chip, etc and Ho-Oh scouting the moves on band but fearing Rock Tomb

**Priority**:
  • Marshadow's immunites to Extreme Speed, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave are nice traits, though it is still none of these are really relevant in the current meta vulnerable to other priority moves, which is exaggerated by Close Combat's defense drop. This can make Marshadow somewhat prone to revenge killing. I'd just change this to revenge killers and include mentions of specific priority, p much just sucker yveltal but also things like scarf Kyogre, and Yveltal

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Pietrym, 554573]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
Let me know when this is implemented and I'll review it and stamp
 
The post in the reservation thread for this was deleted and I haven't gotten a response nor has any updates happened in 2 months, so shelving this and letting Manaphy take over for Marshadow
 
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