massive change.

gorm

gorm

is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hi.

i want to change the world. me individually. whether my motives are pure or not, the world needs changing so im going to change it.

i want to print shirts that say "what is wrong with love." and on the back say "nothing is wrong with it."

or the front or wherever.

they will be well designed. people will like them and wear than because they agree.

love is one of the most beautiful human creations ever invented. love is never wrong its jsut how you feel. whatever the reasons, and there are reasons, its there and you cannot deny it.

why?

because i believe jesus was right when he said "love thy neighbor". i think that extend to everyone.

every single person in the world needs to choose love for others over themselves and their own impulses.

the firs step is these t shirts

the first step ("my" first step) is accepting gays and accepting that gay love is just as legitimate as straight love and that just because it doesnt produce children is no reason to use a 2000 year old book (back when producing children was important) to justify hating anyone's love EVER.


discuss :)
and even submit designs ^_^
 
thanks guys but im really looking for a contribution more than an agreement

i appreciate the support though ^__^


wer if youre serious you need to elaborate right now.

ps please actually dont post with *i agree* i dont want to encourage bandwagoning because i have clout.
 
disagree with me, agree with me and add to my efforts, or leave.

this goes for every future response and if you don't read/miss this post you are not interested enough.
 
ok, if you want my true opinion, organizing something like this over the internet is kind of impractical, one person in a given community wearing a t-shirt isn't going to accomplish anything except for wasting money, and there must already be organizations that work towards the same kind of things, so if you really want to make a difference, contribute to those organizations. if you really feel confidnet that this is the best way to make a difference then go for it, the intentions behind it are great and its certainly a great message, I'm just unsure to what extent this will get out your message.
 
There are like three people in the world that disagree with homosexuality because the bible tells them to.

Go out and get to know people.
 
ok, if you want my true opinion, organizing something like this over the internet is kind of impractical, one person in a given community wearing a t-shirt isn't going to accomplish anything except for wasting money, and there must already be organizations that work towards the same kind of things, so if you really want to make a difference, contribute to those organizations.
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im starting with my own feelings because i know im right. im not going to donate to someone elses efforts. they are taking too long. this has gone on long enough. i am taking action here and now and you can believe that its going to go beyond smogon.

im starting here because i respect ALOT of peoples opinions.

if you really feel confidnet that this is the best way to make a difference then go for it, the intentions behind it are great and its certainly a great message, I'm just unsure to what extent this will get out your message.
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im going to try because i know im right



rai you are 100% right.
 
me and gormy has a good talk... thanks

so basically we both agree that God is always right, but because the Bible is written by human beings, and has been translated a zillion times, so it cannot be taken word for word.

Regardless of if you believe in God or not, you have to admit, the 10 commandments are like, the best rules to live by ever. And Jesus knew what he was talking about too. So while it is unfortunate that the Bible is inaccurate, the main ideas... love your neighbor as yourself, do not steal, do not murder... they are all very good timeless teachings, that ring true regardless of how old they are.

So anyways, don't take the bible word for word. It is a book written by people who believe in God, as a basic guideline of how we are to live out our lives. If you take it as pure, 100% fact, then you are nothing but a yes-man. Interpret it as you will, and apply it to your own life.

Anyways, long story short... the Bible says do not judge, and do not condemn. Therefore, I will not judge gay people for their decisions, as that would by unchristian of me. It took four hours and a lot of typing to realize this, but if Jesus really wanted us to love everyone equally, that should include gay people too. If God some sort of grudge against them, that's none of my business, and I doubt he does anyways. God loves everyone, no matter what you decide to do with you life. God loves the prostitute on the corner of main street. God loves the war veteran, God loves the elderly, the single moms, kids, babies, murderers...

If God really cares about what he made, he shouldn't hate people that love people of the same gender as they are, especially since it is not their choice to be homosexuals in the first place.
 
You can think that a person is doing something wrong and love them at the same time. Hell, I pass a McDonalds on the way to work, and every once in a while I order a hamburger. Does that mean I hate myself?

'Hate' exists more in politics than anywhere else. It is very beneficial for the progays to label anyone who disagrees as hate-filled. Character assassination is the easiest way to prove your point if you don't have a point to begin with, and activists rarely do.

Also, it isn't a coincidence that the same people who preach tolerance one second are spitting on people the next. People are people, and everyone has indignations.
 
The greatest question burning in my mind is... are people born gay!?!? Because it wouldn't make sense for God to essentially screw up someone's life so badly like that.

If it is really a choice, it isn't a very good one IMO, because it causes a lot of social problems.
 
I am 95% sure that it is not a choice, at least not a conscious one. My theory is becoming a homosexual is largely based on your childhood.
 
Gormenghast said:
im starting with my own feelings because i know im right. im not going to donate to someone elses efforts. they are taking too long. this has gone on long enough. i am taking action here and now and you can believe that its going to go beyond smogon.
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these "someone elses efforts" are those of communities of dedicated people who may even feel more strongly about this than you do yourself (they might actually be living the injustices that you're attempting to change). you cant imagine that people with that much personal connection to an issue would not be doing their best with something like this, and believe it or not progress is being made, slowly but surely. this is not to say that it can't be helped along though. if this is to really make a difference, there has to be something special about our effort that sets it apart from the rest, and I really think a good starting point would be to emphasize relating to the audience that you're trying to reach, that is "yeah i'm heterosexual and a christian as well" thats my rather obvious general advice on how you're going to best make a massive change.
 
I love how some of you guys are making fun of this. I mean, look at skiddle. I don't know, I don't find it funny, I find it pretty awesome [in the 'awe' meaning of the word] that someone would take the time to show someone they met on the internet and teach them like that.

And he's right, you know. Charity is great and all but ultimately you can't just throw money, even time out, then sit back and think this is solved. You have to get out there yourself and create the change you want to see [as trite a cliché as that is]. Snowballs and all that. Also, highstakespkmn, you're looking at it wrong[ly]. It's not a passive campaign, lol. You need to take practical action with it :/ Like the talk Gorm and skiddle had. You might not think that's really important but to skiddle that is very, very important. Those shirts are the first step like it said. It isn't going to stop there, but it's a way of making a statement and spreading a message.

As hippyish as this sounds, love is probably the saving grace of this world. I am sick of all the rampant hate, no matter how the hate is 'justified', you know, justified because the God you believe in told you, or justified because you 'hate Christians' because they 'hate [x/y/z]'. The best way to counter hate isn't hate I guess, it's love.

So yeah stop making fun of it, shit like that is immature and if you're just going to sit back and make sarcastic comments, get out. Thanks.
 
yeah, if christians (the people largely associated with hating gay people) say something then most likely things will change.

@ misaki-chi: basically me and gorm argued for about three hours until we finally agreed that although God is perfect and very real, there is no way we can really take the Bible as "the last word". For the longest time while I felt, as a person, that it is wrong to discriminate against gay people, I felt somewhat forced to take that stance because "the bible says so"

However, none of the passages that said "do not be gay" were written by jesus, god, or even prophets. There was no reason to believe that God actually said that. While it most likely wasn't his intention when he designed the human body, it doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong. The only time God ever took action against gay people was in sodom... but that city already had a lot of sin (gang rape, child rape, orgies, etc) which probably led to it's destruction, which really doesn't provide any conclusive evidence prove that homosexuality is a sin at all, as there were many other variables.

Then for the last hour, we philosophized for a while, and said our goodbyes. I haven't ever really gotten so... real... on the internet before... it was a really deep talk.
 
highstakespkmn said:
these "someone elses efforts" are those of communities of dedicated people who may even feel more strongly about this than you do yourself (they might actually be living the injustices that you're attempting to change).
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thats possible and probable and i woudl collaborate with them. but i KNOW im right and im basing myself off MY thoughts and MY desire to change this world because nothing in more certain in my heart than what i know is true


you cant imagine that people with that much personal connection to an issue would not be doing their best with something like this, and believe it or not progress is being made, slowly but surely.
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too slow, i can help. im going to help.
this is not to say that it can't be helped along though.
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exactly ^_^
if this is to really make a difference, there has to be something special about our effort that sets it apart from the rest, and I really think a good starting point would be to emphasize relating to the audience that you're trying to reach, that is "yeah i'm heterosexual and a christian as well" thats my rather obvious general advice on how you're going to best make a massive change.
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its not about being a starting point of the issue. its about being a starting point for real change. its about giving no quarter. its about immeditaly eliminating people who dont believe in what is 100% true.

shiki thank you so much.
 
when did I ever say this was a passive campaign??? (confused) I did not one time mention sitting out as a way to solve this problem. I was simply mentioning the most practical way to take action. I don't care that you're accusing me of looking at it this flawed way, thats just not what I said or intended.
 
I was simply mentioning the most practical way to take action.
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herein lies the fallacy. you are encouraging the easiest way.

the easiest way is not the fastest. speed is of incredible importance. that is massive change.
 
easiest? you could easily spend as many hours of your free time contributing to someone else's campaign as your own campaign, in no way making it any "easier". I want to see success here, and the best way to do that is obviously with effectiveness and efficiency. you seem very strong willed about this but willpower alone isn't going to get anything accomplished alone.
 
putting myself on the chopping board and living through the knife is always much much harder than cheering for someone else on the chopping board.

willpower alone isn't going to get anything accomplished alone.
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im willing to do anything in my life for this cause. if i fail i failed my life.
 
Rai said:
There are like three people in the world that disagree with homosexuality because the bible tells them to.

Go out and get to know people.
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Obviously, you aren't gay and have never had to deal with coming or being out of the closet...I suggest that you take your own advice and get to know people. Talk to someone who is a homosexual and see how they respond when you tell them that there are only like three people in the world that disagree with homosexuality for that reason. See how long it takes them to laugh in your face.

No matter what the reason, there is quite an anti-gay bias in everyday life. You would have to be pretty naive not to think so. Granted, I only live in the US and I don't exactly see what happens to homos in most other countries, but as far as America goes, homosexuals are still treated quite unfairly whether it is the Bible's fault or not. I know that marriage rights aren't much to want considering that gays are STILL being executed in some other countries, but overall its pretty tough getting used to being gay in a straight world.

I'm proud of you, gorm. I wish more people were as thoughtful and adorable as you.
 
rai made a mistake by saying it was easy, thank you for pointing that out jrrrrrrr

people assume when you are right it makes it easy. this is not true. you need to fight ignorance.

edit: thank you x.
 
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