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Metagross (Agility SubLiechi)

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Tomahawk

Tomahawk

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Status: Waiting for QC approval

[SET]
name: Agility SubLiechi
move 1: Agility
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Iron Head / Meteor Mash
move 4: Earthquake
item: Liechi Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 12 HP, 252 Atk, 216 Speed, 28 Def

Why this deserves to be on-site:
  • Although this appears to be outclassed by Empoleon at first sight due to lack of Torrent, it really makes up for it with much higher stats. (Mainly 135 Attack over 111 Sp. Attack.)
  • This game functions very well as a late game sweeper with 607 Attack and 460 Speed.

Additional Comments:
  • The strategy of this set is simple: switch Metagross in on a type it resists (Dragon, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Rock, Steel) or a physical attack other than Flare Blitz or Earthquake and use Agility on the switch. Then use Substitute until you get your Liechi Berry boost.
  • Iron Head is a reliable STAB. Meteor Mash can be used over Iron Head if you want more power and chance of an Attack boost, but it's not recommended because of it's low accuracy. Bullet Punch is not needed because there is no priority move that can kill Metagross at 25% health, except for Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave maybe.
  • Earthquake gives you good coverage, only resisted by Rotom-A, Zapdos, Gyarados, Bronzong and Skarmory in OU and BL. Rock Slide can be used over Earthquake if one of these Pokémons is a real threat to your team. Except for Bronzong, since he resists Rock Slide.
  • 12 HP EVs make sure your Liechi Berry activates after 3 uses, instead of 4.
    The Speed EVs given make sure you outspeed +1 postive-natured base 90s after Agility. Maxing out Speed doesn't gain you anything, except outspeeding Ninjask, but this can also be done by using 220 Speed EVs and 24 Defense EVs.
  • If you want to prevent being revenge killed by an Choice Scarf Adamant Dugtrio, an alternate EV spread can be used with a Jolly nature: 12 HP, 252 Atk, 224 Speed, 20 Defense.

Counters:
  • Scarf Infernape, Scarf Flygon and Scarf Dugtrio can come in and revenge kill Metagross.
  • Rotom-A, Zapdos, Bronzong, Skarmory, Gyarados can wall Metagross and kill him when he's at 25% health. Gyarados and Zapdos must be aware of Rock Slide though. Also, Gyarados' Intimidate doesn't work against Metagross because of Clear Body.
  • Skarmory, Vaporeon, Swampert, Suicune, Hippowdon, Zapdos and Gyarados can survive an attack and Roar or Whirlwind Metagross away.
 
The thing that I really don't like about this set is that you lack the type coverage to pull off a successful sweep without a fair amount of support.

So I guess it's viable, but it seems like there's to much that you need to eliminate to support this, and it already hits like a truck with just its agility set, so I'd honestly say that the type coverage of a third move is a bit more worth it than the attack boost of liechi.

But yeah, seems like an interesting set; I'll test it out later today.
 
Agreeing with Windsong.

I think its viable, because like SubPetaya Empoleon, Metagross is immune to Sandstorm, and resists Bullet Punch which is huge. Though the loss of accuracy may be a small issue, power is needed and therefore I would definitely suggest at least a slash for Meteor Mash. I think it should be the main slash to be honest.

The biggest problem is type coverage, which may easily halt Metagross' sweep if the opponent has any of the Pokemon in the "Counters" section.

I don't think you need to mention Dugtrio in the AC section, because its rarely used in OU.

Otherwise it looks pretty good.
 
The Reasons why Empoleon can do this and Metagross can't:

Empoleon Quad resists Bullet Punch, Empoleon has better stab in Hydro Pump/Surf while Metagross has to deal with Steel-Type STAB, Empoleon has Torrent which is pretty much the reason why Agility SubPetaya is viable in the first place, Empoleon has Grass Knot and access to boosted Hidden Power, which lets it have much better coverage in two moves than Metagross. Bulky Waters like Vaporeon still wall the set at full health, and can use surf on Meta and kill it.
 
Windsong said:
The thing that I really don't like about this set is that you lack the type coverage to pull off a successful sweep without a fair amount of support.

So I guess it's viable, but it seems like there's to much that you need to eliminate to support this, and it already hits like a truck with just its agility set, so I'd honestly say that the type coverage of a third move is a bit more worth it than the attack boost of liechi.

But yeah, seems like an interesting set; I'll test it out later today.
Click to expand...

Damage calculations against the five pokes that resist both attacks.

Iron Head vs 252/168 Bold Rotom-A: 26,64 - 31,58% (0,13% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 0/0 Timid/Modest Rotom-A: 41,49 - 48,96% (78,35% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 248/228 Bold Zapdos: 23,5 - 27,94% (2,21% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 248/0 Calm Zapdos: 33,16 - 39,16% (100% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 0/4 Modest/Timid Zapdos: 39,25 - 46,42% (100% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 0/4 Adamant/Jolly Gyarados: 40,48 - 47,73% (100% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 156/96 Adamant Gyarados: 32,43 - 38,11% (100% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 252/80 Sassy Bronzong: 26,63 - 31,66% (0% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 252/240 Impish Skarmory: 18,86 - 22,46% (0% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 252/0 Careful Skarmory: 24,85 - 29,34% (0% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)

So the things to take care of are: Bronzong, Skarmory, Physically Defensive Rotom-A and Physically Defensive Zapdos.
Bronzong is usually a lead and will use Explosion.
Skarmory and Bronzong can be trapped and killed by Magnezone.
(Magnezone can also kill Gyarados.)
Rotom-A can be Pursuited to death by Tyranitar or Scizor.
Zapdos can be taken out by Tyranitar, who gets a Special Defense boost in the Sandstorm, with Stone Edge.
Rotom-A and Zapdos can be killed by Tyranitar.
 
I don't see much reason to use this set over the standard agility Metagross which has Life Orb. Unlike that set, this set loses some important coverage since it has to run substitute. IMO this loss coverage isn't really worth the the tradeoff (LO boosts 1.3x while Liechi boosts 1.5x). Not only that, but this set needs to be at low levels of health in order to hit as hard as it can. What differentiates this set from agility empoleon is that empoleon hits much harder due to torrent, an ability that metagross has no equivalent of. The set doesn't seem bad, just outclassed, sorry.

QC Rejection 1/3
 
This set is not terrible but its bad. Metagross really needs all the coverage it can get.The difference between life orb and +1 isnt all that much. You give up 75% of your health to get +1(+50%) when you can get +30% with the only downfall being you lose 10% when you attack. However with life orb you still have a good chance to ko 2hko things and still have a large amount of health left over. Empoleon can use this successfully because thats its niche. its one of its only successful offensive sets empoleon has.And additionally your threat (counter) list is the whole damn metagame so wtf?
 
Tomahawk9 said:
Iron Head vs 252/168 Bold Rotom-A: 26,64 - 31,58% (0,13% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 0/0 Timid/Modest Rotom-A: 41,49 - 48,96% (78,35% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 248/228 Bold Zapdos: 23,5 - 27,94% (2,21% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 248/0 Calm Zapdos: 33,16 - 39,16% (100% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 0/4 Modest/Timid Zapdos: 39,25 - 46,42% (100% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 0/4 Adamant/Jolly Gyarados: 40,48 - 47,73% (100% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 156/96 Adamant Gyarados: 32,43 - 38,11% (100% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 252/80 Sassy Bronzong: 26,63 - 31,66% (0% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 252/240 Impish Skarmory: 18,86 - 22,46% (0% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Iron Head vs 252/0 Careful Skarmory: 24,85 - 29,34% (0% chance to 3HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock)
Click to expand...

Scoring a 3HKO with Iron Head on the Pokemon you've listed in your calculations isn't really impressive. First of all, in order to deal the damage you've listed in your calculations, Metagross needs to activate his Liechi Berry, which requires him to be at low health. If he's at low health, Rotom-A, Gyarados, and Zapdos will easily kill you off with their attacks before you have a shot to hit them a second or third time. You also have to keep in mind that each of these Pokemon can replenish their health with Roost / Rest, respectively. The Skarmory / Bronzong calculations are irrelevant; Skarm can simply Whirlwind you out, or set up Spikes while recovering his health with Roost, while Zong can Earthquake you.

Anyway, like everyone else has said, Metagross doesn't need a Liechi Berry to cleave through teams. The on-site Agility set does that just fine with Life Orb. The real problem, though, is that your Metagross set lacks the necessary coverage to get past certain threats. For example, I could be using ThunderPunch to deal with Gyarados / Skarmory, while I could use Zen Headbutt to knock Rotom-A down a peg. Giving up coverage just to use Substitute to activate Liechi takes way to much time and effort. The Liechi boost doesn't even provide Metagross with any notable KOs that it couldn't already receive with the existing on-site Agility set, so this set is inferior, in my opinion.

All in all, this set doesn't have any real benefits over Metagross's existing Agility set, and the lack of coverage really hinders its potential.
 
Meteor mash raises attack occasionally. Life orb gives a 30% boost already, it's better to have 3 attacks and a 30% boost than 2 attacks and a 50% boost. Plus, another good thing about agiligross is to have the bulk to survive weak earthquakes and surfs as well. Without a third move in thunderpunch, you get conpletely walled by waters, liechi or not. Metagross does not have torrent to make lowering his health worth it over LO.
ect...
 
The other REALLY GODDAMN BIG THING is that Empoleon gets Torrent, which turns that meh 1.5x boost at 25% into a crazy 2.25x boost, making Empoleon's SubPetaya Surf more powerful than Salamence's Specs Draco Meteor. Metagross has no such thing, and it's better off just using Life Orb for the power buff than trying to wait around and Substitute down, and losing important coverage in the process.

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
Agreeing with my QC colleagues. Very good points as to why this set shouldn't get its own place onsite have been raised up. Torrent is indeed a huge reason why SubPetaya Empoleon works that well, and I'm sure if Metagross had access to something similar, it would undoubtedly get a Substitute + pinch Berry set. As of now, I'm going to have to vote against it.

Thanks for posting it, though, we appreciate it.
 
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