National Dex Misty Terrain HO and My First Failure (A Year of Teambuilding 3/13)

Moon Jelly

Moon Jelly

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Team Overview:​

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https://pokepast.es/1a62f6521280d2e1
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The goal for this month’s build was simple. Set Z Move Volcarona up to consistently do despicable things and in the meantime, maybe learn how to teambuild with setup sweepers. It sounded great. The opportunity to use my favourite Tapu and try some terrain shenanigans had me going into this believing it would be an absolute slam dunk. After all, how hard could it really be? Take Volcarona, take Tapu Fini and throw in 4 other setup sweepers. It’s hyper offense, the most linear straightforward archetype to build. Or so I thought.

The conceit of this team was to get ZVolcarona under Misty Terrain and watch it crush worlds. In practice, my world was crushed. Misty terrain doesn't stick around long and barely does anything. Volcarona gets countered by any halfway decent core and the rest of the team folds like origami to anything that even resembles a speedy threat. It had no answers for opposing sweepers, could never get its mons in a favourable position and refused to break through any checks to give one of its other sweepers a chance to actually sweep.

This month, I failed. The team never came together, I couldn’t make it to the top 500. I could barely even break 1600. The team crumbles under even the slightest pressure and no salve seems suitable. I went in with delusions of consistent sweeping and emerged from this month terrified of a simple green 1.5x above my opponents speed. I don’t know how to build this, I don’t know how to play this and quite frankly I feel utterly defeated. This isn't a thread showing off the team and moreso a desperate plea for someone with more understanding of team building and this archetype to tell me what I’m doing wrong. To provide me with the tools so that months down the line, when this horror is stricken from my memory by the temperament of time and I decide for whatever reason to dip my toe into HO again that it may be but a bit easier on me. I am a broken man, and it is all Volcarona’s fault.


The Teambuilding Method:​

In my journey to learn high level team building I’ve committed to a method that ensures each idea gets the exploration and testing it deserves. I start with a rough concept of a team, typically the core members with unoptimized movesets, spreads and supporting cast. I then create a new alt and ladder for 100 games, making any changes deemed necessary and honing the team over the course of those games until it emerges on the other side polished and prepared against the metagame. The record and final elo of each team will be recorded and compared against each other in order to both gauge the success of the individual team and also my skill and journey as a teambuilder. I believe that as these threads continue the progress in my building will be seen by how quickly the final form will be achieved. It is my goal to become one of the top team builders in this tier. In order to pursue that I will be completing this process with a new team every month next year. Be on the lookout for these threads to see how I get along.

I do not intend to compete myself, however I would love to make teams for competitors one day. Please let me know if you have any team idea suggestions or would like more info on any of the teams I have put together.


This Teams Results:​

This team made it to a peak of 1603 ELO and had a win/Loss of 63/38
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The squad:​

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Tappy Chaos (Tapu Fini) @ Life Orb
Ability: Misty Surge
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Ice Beam
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Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini.
Every game, you click Tapu Fini to lead, because Tapu Fini somehow finds itself being the best possible lead into every team ever assembled.
Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini.
Get terrain up, and then hope Fini either dies or that one of your 3 sweepers that can’t possibly stomach an entrance to the field without keeling over decided to take a shed load of pain meds today and tank something for once in their miserable lives.
Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini, Tapu Fini.
Honestly one of only two solid, standout performances on this team. I don’t know what mind virus has collectively infected the OU Ladder, but people will just leave their Lando’s in against this. Everyone expects their durdly, bulky, safety-first helmet wearing dweeb can outspeed Fini for whatever reason. I kid you not, in the 30 or so times I found myself faced with a Lando/Fini lead matchup, Fini got an ohko every single time. It might be the only reason this team has a positive win rate.

Creative flourishes aside, I am both remarkably impressed and exceptionally frustrated by life orb Fini. It does just enough damage to consistently threaten two shots on 70% of the metagame and seems to be entirely unexpected and mishandled by all of its opponents, letting it 1 for 1 in almost every matchup. Throw in taunt as an option to claim free turns and it's legitimately a really nice mon for this team to have access to, one I would recommend you try. On a team that isn’t this one. Again I cannot stress how badly you should not play this team. Fini’s frustration stems from the fact that it has no reliable way to leave the field, is not nearly as fast as it wants to be, and just barely misses out on some really crucial kills. Not being able to 1v1 bulky Ghold being the biggest standout for this team. It feels like it overachieves and underachieves every single game. It’s quite impressive.


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Vol Badguy (Volcarona) @ Buginium Z
Ability: Swarm
Hidden Power: Ground
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz
Matchup moth is such a fitting moniker. It’s actually quite hard to describe the sheer emotions having this Mon on your team can elicit from just a simple team preview. You see a Heatran, cry. You see a Moltres, cry. Heaven forbid you see a Toxapex, cause crying isn’t even close to enough in that case. But on the one in three games you boot into, where there's no good fire type, and they’re not ready for the giga drain, pure ecstasy. This mon dices through unprepared teams so utterly and entirely that it’s downright unfair. One quiver dance and some poor poor 1300’s player will never again look at their favourite game the same way. And that’s not to mention the Z move. Oh my god, the utter satisfaction that comes with blasting away a garchomp that a trainer desperately clings to for moth related salvation, or nuking a cocky t-tar that expects to shrug off your regular bug buzz with ease. Oh and if you're in swam range............ nothing survives. I firmly believe that a Z move turns Volcarona into the single scariest pokemon in the entire format, it’s despicable how high the highs of this pokemon are. And then the next guy sends out a heatran and you’re back to crying.

I know the idea of a consistent Volcarona is an oxymoron, and that I might be an oxy moron for trying to find a way to make this work, but there is sooo sooo sooo much potential with this pokemon and a z move. It is worth the squeeze, but I just can't get it to happen, my lemonade is rotten. Hazards were never the problem, this team can handle them, but feeling hopeless from team select, knowing that this mons entire purpose in a game is going to be boosting up and chipping a moltres for like 60 is rough, and I don’t know how to mitigate it.


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Bedmoon? (Roaring Moon) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Earthquake
A small saving grace with the fact that this guy got unbanned halfway through the month, and yeah it’s pretty good. It’s a nice breaking tandem with volc and while it didn’t win nearly as many games as the moth, it definitely steals some. Those it doesn’t it does a pretty good job in softening up whatever check the opponent does have for it. I like taunt as an option, it helps manage the infernal FerroPex cores and theoretically should be able to help beat Skarm and Corv but that never happened in practice as they never hit iron defense. I like this mon, I do, and it always contributed, but like everything on this team it feels awkward and just kind of crumbles under the slightest bit of opposing pressure. I don't know how to judge if a pokemon in this archetype is actually working because they're meant to die without much progress half the time anyway.

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Gholdlewis (Gholdengo) @ B
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 100 SpD / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Memento


The final slot of the team and the one I changed around the most. Prior to Ghold, this team fell apart in the face of flying and fairy types and this guy provides a solid answer to both. Bulk felt right as I also needed a desperate bandaid fix for opposing setup and I hoped being able to tank and trade a hit here would help. It didn’t, like not at all, but I still kind of like this guy. Memento is a fun move and won me games nothing else could, but I don’t actually think it helps that often. I genuinely don’t know what to do with this team. Maybe Gambit could work here?

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Leo Whitetusk (Great Tusk) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Spinner

The only “Speed control” and an absolute failure of a sweeper. It’s not bad, it really isn’t but it cannot handle the pressure put on it by this build. It can’t be hazard removal, the only check to something fast, a sweeping threat in its own right and a switch in to preserve Fini all in one. If any of this fails the team falls apart. It really does try and to its credit it can succeed sometimes, but other times the opponent has an Alomomola.

This team needs more resilience, and tusk isn’t it. It also cannot break through things. It just can’t, it needs like three bulk ups to sweep, and no team in their right mind is giving this elephant three bulk ups.

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Dia Kiske (Diancie) @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Power Gem

A decent pokemon whose only job is to keep hazards off and press moonblast. It can act as a last minute check to some stuff but honestly is not a good fit for this team. I would replace it if I could find anything that even remotely fit in this slot. I've tried calm mind which didn't work, 3 attacks plus rocks seems like the best shot as rocks can go a long way towards helping a sweep. I think I just don't like MDiancie very much tbh



Threats:

The entire metagame:
Every team has either a setup sweeper that beats this team or a core too bulky for it to break. I am so tired of getting through five pokemon only for a Dnite to dragon dance once and tear through my entire roster. I know it’s a building failure. I just don’t know how to fix it. How do you take a team that's so unbelievably frail and expect not to just immediately lose to anything fast and hard hitting. I don’t get HO, I really don’t. I don’t even think I built HO. Mega Diancie, Fini and Tusk aren’t exactly sweepers and even their middling bulk couldn’t help.

Also Alomomola and Ferropex, hate those three.



Conclusion:​

This month broke me. The reason this thread is coming out so late in comparison to the last two is because this is the first team that I legitimately did not have fun playing or building. Every game is so linear and the ones I won had no satisfaction beyond seeing the green number. The ones I lost were infuriating. A man can only take being reverse swept by a valiant or a Dnite or a Lucha so many times. A man can take thudding against Ferrothorn significantly less times, specifically 8 times before iron barbs takes a man out. I wish I only faced Ferrothorn eight times. I want to be a well rounded builder and I know that means I need to learn this archetype from both a builders and a players perspective but I’m lost. I'm stabbing in the dark here. I know the core has potential but its not like balance or Offense. I can’t just shore things up with good defense and without that, I’m not sure I know how to build. That’s why I need help. This is an honest to goodness team help thread. Tell me where me and my process went wrong so that I can be better in the future. And please tell me how to make an HO team that doesn’t immediately die to sweepers PLEASE.

Next month we’re going with a different archetype, Bulky Balance. That’s right, Clefable’s coming to play.

Thanks for reading,
Moon Jelly​
 
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Moon Jelly said:

And please tell me how to make an HO team that doesn’t immediately die to sweepers PLEASE.​

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Hi! Not a really good builder but I'm currently stuck in the HO mindset building phase right now and I think what you are lacking is one and one thing only for that problem, phazers or priority users. I had a smiliar team as yours but with a different strategy and goal.

The team in question.

It had one phazer in :tapu-fini:Tapu Fini a priority user in :pinsir-mega:Pinsir to prevent any pokemon from setting up too much. While not often used, :tapu-fini: Fini is bulky enough to live a hit and then haze, it can also prevent a sweeper from setting up again by doing some damage with Moonblast or Hydro Pump most of the time and depsite being hazard weak, :pinsir-mega: is usually a decent check to most set up sweepers with aerilate quick attack. And also if you are building HO and your team faints or gets too much damage from any attack, then I always suggest a dedicated lead to use as I can tell your :tapu-fini:Tapu Fini isn't really capable of being a lead as it's a bit too bulky and doesn't really contibute much long term before it faints barring those surprise kills for your opponents staple pokemon.
 
Hey there, I play HO occasionally, and a key feature of Hyper Offense is momentum. I see you're trying to achieve that with techs like Memento Ghold, but speed is key on HO, and your team is slightly lacking. For this reason, taking Fini and Gholdengo off the team and replacing them with slightly faster Pokemon would be recommended. For example, Terapagos :terapagos: over Gholdengo. While Ghost is a better STAB type, the coverage and secondary speed control far outshine the lead properties of Tapu Fini. Not only that, it also has a latent form of hazard control in rapid spin, freeing up a moveslot for Great Tusk:great-tusk:.
Another problem with your team is the lack of revenge killers. The lack of revenge killers mean faster pokemon such as Dragon Dance :dragapult: and Booster Energy Speed :iron-valiant: can outspeed and OHKO a significant portion of your team, if not end the game entirely. To somewhat mitigate that, I decided to slot Kingambit over :gholdengo:. I dropped Gholdengo as it was slow, easy to exploit by pursuit trappers such as :tyranitar-mega: and :kingambit:. The set can be optimized further, but I left it to standard as it's mostly personal preference. Here's the modified pokepaste.
https://pokepast.es/b8f88fb7bae40e55

I enjoyed reading this immensely, thanks for posting.
 
Rothcore said:
Hey there, I play HO occasionally, and a key feature of Hyper Offense is momentum. I see you're trying to achieve that with techs like Memento Ghold, but speed is key on HO, and your team is slightly lacking. For this reason, taking Fini and Gholdengo off the team and replacing them with slightly faster Pokemon would be recommended. For example, Terapagos :terapagos: over Gholdengo. While Ghost is a better STAB type, the coverage and secondary speed control far outshine the lead properties of Tapu Fini. Not only that, it also has a latent form of hazard control in rapid spin, freeing up a moveslot for Great Tusk:great-tusk:.
Another problem with your team is the lack of revenge killers. The lack of revenge killers mean faster pokemon such as Dragon Dance :dragapult: and Booster Energy Speed :iron-valiant: can outspeed and OHKO a significant portion of your team, if not end the game entirely. To somewhat mitigate that, I decided to slot Kingambit over :gholdengo:. I dropped Gholdengo as it was slow, easy to exploit by pursuit trappers such as :tyranitar-mega: and :kingambit:. The set can be optimized further, but I left it to standard as it's mostly personal preference. Here's the modified pokepaste.
https://pokepast.es/b8f88fb7bae40e55

I enjoyed reading this immensely, thanks for posting.
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First off, I gotta give you an insane amount of props for making the team modifications fit the naming scheme, Pagoriyuki is inspired.

Second off I appreciate the insight. I had sort of been forming the idea of needing a revenge killer but having it laid out here really highlights why the teams been struggling with fast threats. Having any form of priority probably would have been a smart idea and gambit fits well. As for momentum, I'm not sure I fully understand the concept as you refer to it. Do you mean just running faster pokemon so that the teams post kill switch ins are more threatening or is it tied to momentum in the traditional form of pivot moves to stay ahead of bad 1v1 matchups?

Also being able to get rapid spin off tusk goes a long way to making it a more cohesive mon on this team. Headsmashing a Moltres is so unbelievably cathartic after a month of getting walled by the chicken, thanks for the response and changes.
 
Moon Jelly said:
First off, I gotta give you an insane amount of props for making the team modifications fit the naming scheme, Pagoriyuki is inspired.

Second off I appreciate the insight. I had sort of been forming the idea of needing a revenge killer but having it laid out here really highlights why the teams been struggling with fast threats. Having any form of priority probably would have been a smart idea and gambit fits well. As for momentum, I'm not sure I fully understand the concept as you refer to it. Do you mean just running faster pokemon so that the teams post kill switch ins are more threatening or is it tied to momentum in the traditional form of pivot moves to stay ahead of bad 1v1 matchups?

Also being able to get rapid spin off tusk goes a long way to making it a more cohesive mon on this team. Headsmashing a Moltres is so unbelievably cathartic after a month of getting walled by the chicken, thanks for the response and changes.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you appreciated it! I personally felt Potemkingambit was shoehorned in.
But as for momentum, I'm not exactly sure what I meant. Momentum in the traditional sense of the word means creating good matchups for your pokemon, to increase your chances of winning. A lot of HO is about keeping your opponent on the back foot, either through insane offensive prowess, or making reads. You could call it proactive play, as opposed to stall, which is mostly reactive, depending on switching to a defensive piece and outlasting you.
A lot of it is just moving first, yes, but making you die or get off the field before a bad matchup is also a key factor. For example, a massive momentum sink for physical attackers are walls. You solved this through Taunt Roaring Moon, a great idea to shut down fatter mons like Alomomola and Zapdos. I further expanded upon this by booting Tapu Fini to make way for faster threats like Terapagos. Not only that, revenge killing is also a part of proactive play. If, for example, a Dragapult starts setting up on your Terapagos, correctly identifying Ice Beam as a 2HKO, you can still be proactive by chipping Pult to give Gambit leeway on the burn/sub mindgame.

In summary, HO is about proactivity, making sure your opponent doesn't have the time to set hazards or get status off. Fainting to keep momentum is a valid strategy, especially to bring in priority on a boosted setup Mon. Speed is a factor, yes, but correct play is often what separates good offense from bad offense.

Big fan of the Z-Pecharunt Hazard Stack. Excited for next month!
 
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