Move Category suggestions

QICK ATTCK in rby zu should be put in useful moves it’s the best tier for qa in rby until now

BONEMERANG should be removed from the usfull section in rby with marowaks mid attack stat he somtimes even struggles to delete subs with eq against reasonable bulky mons and If bonemerang doesn’t delete sub it’s just an worse eq
 
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torkonpeter said:
QICK ATTCK in rby zu should be put in useful moves it’s the best tier for qa in rby until now
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To expand on this, Quick Attack should be put into the useful moves category to all Pokemon that get it across all RBY tiers; its the only priority move in the game and every Pokemon that gets it will find some use out of it no matter the tier (Vaporeon in UU, Tauros in Tradebacks OU, Raticate in OU, etc etc)
 
In every generation where both moves exist Iron Defense is tagged as useful but Barrier is usually useless. They have the same effect but Barrier is objectively better since it has more PP. Can they be in the same category? I don't really care which one, I just want it to be consistent.

Edit: I just noticed that Iron Defense is moved to usually useless on mons that learn Acid Armor. Since Acid Armor has more PP than Iron Defense, this makes sense. Except for the fact that Barrier has more PP than either of them.
 
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torkonpeter said:
QICK ATTCK in rby zu should be put in useful moves it’s the best tier for qa in rby until now

BONEMERANG should be removed from the usfull section in rby with marowaks mid attack stat he somtimes even struggles to delete subs with eq against reasonable bulky mons and If bonemerang doesn’t delete sub it’s just an worse eq
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Multihits end upon breaking sub in RBY which makes Bonemerang objectively just bad EQ
 
These are for RBY:
Thunder on Magneton should be moved out of Useless as it OHKOes a lot of mons that Thunderbolt cannot and is used in NU and PU.
Leer and Tail Whip on Rhydon see frequent use in high level play to break Reflect Snorlax and should be moved out of Useless.
Flareon and Pidgeot and Vaporeon all use Quick Attack on some sets in their respective tiers so these should also not be tagged Useless.
 
Decorate should be moved into useful moves, as in doubles (specifically VGC), you can boost very, very strong Pokemon to extreme heights, sealing the game right then and there. There are only two Pokemon that learn this (Smeargle and Alcreamie), but they are very effective users of it (at least Smeargle is)
 
ADV / Gen 3:

- Pokemon that can learn Giga Drain have both Giga Drain and Hidden Power [Grass] listed as 'usually useless'. Both should be moved out of the 'usually useless' category completely as they are used widely on Grass type (and non-Grass type) Pokemon as the best coverage option.

- Future Sight, Icicle Spear, Magic Coat, Outrage, Petal Dance, and Tri Attack should be listed as 'usually useless'. These moves are not used in a competitive setting.

(Edit)

- Sunny Day and Rain Dance should be listed as 'useful', these moves are used more generally to clear Sand Stream's permasand, but also as the only method (in all tiers except Ubers) to enable Swift Swim and Chlorophyll attackers with a speed + damage boost in a single moveslot.

- Leaf Blade (caught by Celdanami), Sky Uppercut and Needle Arm should be listed as 'useful'. Zap Cannon is conditionally useful.

Pull request submitted: https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown-client/pull/2288

To be moved to useful:
Giga Drain
Hidden Power [Grass] (when Leaf Blade is not part of movepool)
Leaf Blade
Needle Arm
Rain Dance
Sky Uppercut
Sunny Day
Zap Cannon (when Thunder Wave is not part of movepool).

To be moved to usually useless:
Future Sight (all gens before 6)
Icicle Spear
Magic Coat
Outrage
Tri Attack

All of the cases above are true for GSC / gen 2 as well.
 
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I don't know if this was already suggested but in Generation 9, Leaf Blade should not be labeled "usually useless" if the pokemon does not learn Power Whip or Wood Hammer and Seed Bomb should be labeled "usually useless" if the pokemon learns Leaf Blade. Currently, Leaf Blade is in the "usually useless moves" section for pokemon such as Leafeon, Sceptile, Iron Leaves, and Decidueye who have Leaf Blade as their best physical Grass STAB option while Seed Bomb on those same pokemon (besides Iron Leaves who doesn't learn Seed Bomb) is paradoxically listed in "moves" instead. Contact punishing has never been prevalent or powerful enough in any generation 9 singles tier to make Seed Bomb's lack of contact to ever cause it to be used over Leaf Blade's 10 extra base power and higher critical hit chance.
 
Cancel cult said:
except in doubles, where it is optimal to have less protect pp because of encore
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iirc detect also has a doubles niche due to imprison + protect being a strategy that's used so detect is often used to bypass it. Idk how common the strategy is but every doubles player I've asked said that this was one of the reasons detect sees doubles use. Additionally, Detect does have a different Z effect than protect so in some formats that allow it, Z detect is used for it's +1 evasion boost although I think most formats with Z moves ban using it.
 
Yech said:
I don't know if this was already suggested but in Generation 9, Leaf Blade should not be labeled "usually useless" if the pokemon does not learn Power Whip or Wood Hammer and Seed Bomb should be labeled "usually useless" if the pokemon learns Leaf Blade. Currently, Leaf Blade is in the "usually useless moves" section for pokemon such as Leafeon, Sceptile, Iron Leaves, and Decidueye who have Leaf Blade as their best physical Grass STAB option while Seed Bomb on those same pokemon (besides Iron Leaves who doesn't learn Seed Bomb) is paradoxically listed in "moves" instead. Contact punishing has never been prevalent or powerful enough in any generation 9 singles tier to make Seed Bomb's lack of contact to ever cause it to be used over Leaf Blade's 10 extra base power and higher critical hit chance.
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After a quick look through the teambuilder, Victreebel is the only pokemon available in Scarlet and Violet that learns Leaf Blade and a physical grass move with a higher base power than Leaf Blade (Power Whip). This makes Leaf Blade being in "usually useless moves" even more puzzling because this means that for every pokemon that learns Leaf Blade in Scarlet and Violet except for Victreebel and Gogoat (who gets Horn Leech which has healing to make up for lower damage), Leaf Blade is their best physical grass STAB.
 
Adding on to this. In gen 8 at least, not sure about other gens, Leaf Blade is usually useless while Petal Blizzard isn't. Leaf Blade is just an outright upgrade to Petal Blizzard.
 
Lillith Plays said:
Adding on to this. In gen 8 at least, not sure about other gens, Leaf Blade is usually useless while Petal Blizzard isn't. Leaf Blade is just an outright upgrade to Petal Blizzard.
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Petal Blizzard not making contact does cause people to use it over leaf blade because it doesn't lose as much damage as seed bomb does due to having 90 bp instead of 80. The value of no contact isn't "10 less bp and less crit rate" good but it can sometimes be "less crit rate" good.
 
What type of bug are you reporting? Teambuilder

What is the bug?
On Pokemon who learn both Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb, Leaf Blade is listed under "Usually useless moves" despite being strictly more powerful than Seed Bomb (which is in the normal move list) with no other downside (except being contact which really shouldn't matter).

Are you able to replicate it? If so, how?
Go into the Gen 9 OU teambuilder and select a Pokemon that learns both Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb, such as Decidueye, Leafeon, and Serperior. Leaf Blade will be listed under "Usually useless moves" while Seed Bomb will not be.
 
I noticed that the natdex doubles formats (natdex 6v6 doubles draft being the one I care about specifically) seem to be using the singles format for usually useless moves. Moves like Icy Wind, Bulldoze, Rage Powder and many others that are mainstays in doubles are categorized as "usually useless" in these formats.
 
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