Muk (QC 2/3)

Raseri

Raseri

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[Overview]
  • pretty solid Pokemon right now
  • Works well against offensive teams because of the high percentage of poisoning
  • also a good offensive check to Jynx!
  • Muk is slow and easy to wall though
  • common weaknesses in ground and psychic
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[SET]
name: Touncher
move 1: Poison Jab
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Memento / Curse
item: Black Sludge
ability: Poison Touch
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def



[SET COMMENTS]
  • Poison Jab is STAB and has 51% chance to poison
  • Shadow Sneak is priority and hits jynx, haunter, and kadabra
  • Ice Punch hits Flying-types, Dragon-types, and Ground-types
  • Brick Break loses coverage some Flying-types like Golbat, but hits Probopass and Bastiodon harder. as well as normal-types
  • Memento can help a teammate set up when Muk is running low on HP
  • Curse can set up against a few teams, the extra power can be useful!

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • A specially defensive spread with curse is viable, but the lack of immediate output hurts it
  • works well with Mandibuzz because she is immune to both of Muk's weaknesses and can defeat threats like Golurk
  • Seismitoad can defeat Regirock and other Rock-types that threaten Muk, as well as hitting Poison types
  • Golurk works just like Seismitoad, while also hitting bulkier Ghost and Psychic types that Muk cant break
  • Sawk works well because it can take down Rocks and Steels that can potentially wall Muk
  • A lot of offensive Pokemon, such as Carracosta and Kangaskhan work well with Muk becausethe extra poison damage it inflicts on walls like Piloswine and Misdreavus can be the difference betweeh them getting a KO and not.
  • Haze is cool in last slot to stop boosters :)

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[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Explosion
item: Choice Band
ability: Poison Touch
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

  • Poison Jab is reliable, but Gunk Shot can 2HKO alomomola
  • Shadow Sneak priority for frail psychics and ghosts
  • Ice Punch hits ground types and flyers
  • Brick Break hits steels and rocks
  • Explosion lets you go out with a bang when Muk is almost down

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • Fire Punch is an option to hit Metang harder
  • Seismitoad and Golurk are good teammates to beat common Rock and Ground types
  • Charizard is a good teammate because it can beat metang and other steel-types
  • Musharna can take on the Poison-types this set can not break, like garbodor and arbok
  • Kanga appreciates this sets ability to lure and weaken alomomola

[Other Options]
  • Sticky Hold is a decent option, but there aren't a lot of trick users and the extra poison chance is great against offensive teams
  • Destiny Bond
  • Thunderpunch
  • special attacks like giga drain / tbolt / flamethrower. Low SpAtk makes them inferior though
  • DIG



[Checks and Counters]
  • Ground types like Seismitoad, Golurk, piloswine
  • Rock-types like Golem and Regirock do quite well too
  • Metang
  • Regirock and Metang also can't be memento'd
  • Weezing walls forever :)
  • Misdreavus takes little from Shadow Sneak and can burn
  • Costa can set up on non CB brick break
  • Musharna can tank non CB hits and psychic in return
  • poison-types like garbodor, scolipede, arbok

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i mainly want to know if this should be one set or two. First set is obv great, but CB is good too. I'll fill out the skeleton depending on what we decide on!
 
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I'll just say this: Choice Band hits like a rocket-powered truck with fists for bumpers (tipped with poison :p). Even if Poison has poor coverage, take solace knowing that 2 of the best physical walls in the tier, Alomomola and Tangela, heavily dislike switching into Muk at all: the former dislikes getting poisoned and can't actually do much back to Muk without Scald, while the latter just gets hit hard. Notably, Gunk Shot 2HKOes Alomomola and almost OHKOes Tangela (though still cannot OHKO even with SR, unless poison). Poison Jab doesn't do jack all to Alomo but the poison chance is really high, and still 2HKOes Tangela with prior damage. Most bulky Poison-resists can be dealt with Brick Break, Ice Punch or Shadow Sneak so Muk can hold its own. Since Muk has a favorable matchup against the 2 monster physical walls, I recommend some speed investment to at least outrun them so you can 2HKO Alomo with Gunk Shot / 2HKO Tangela with Poison Jab before they can respond.

For the record:
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Poison Jab vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 148-175 (34.18 - 40.41%) -- 45.07% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 222-262 (51.27 - 60.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
Click to expand...
Hell yeah.
 
Yeah, go ahead with CB imo. It does hit really hard, and tbh STAB Poison is a pretty decent attacking type in NU imo, considering how few Steel-types there are and such. On top of that, most of the top walls in the tier (Alomomola, Tangela, Musharna, Mandibuzz, etc) are all hit at least neutrally by it.
 
Can't you just combine the two sets? They're like the same thing and I don't believe they play a whole lot differently. They're both like "attack attack tounch attack tounch attack bye."

name: Offensive Touncher
move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Memento / Explosion
item: Black Sludge / Choice Band
ability: Poison Touch
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
 
Fuzznip said:
Can't you just combine the two sets? They're like the same thing and I don't believe they play a whole lot differently. They're both like "attack attack tounch attack tounch attack bye."

name: Offensive Touncher
move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Memento / Explosion
item: Black Sludge / Choice Band
ability: Poison Touch
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Click to expand...


that has real slashitis, and the sets play differently enough to seperate them.

Another reason I want to split them up is to ease things for the reader. Explaining 7 different moves and 2 different items in an analysis really doesn't make a lot of sense to me when they can be split up in to 2 seperate sets that play differently enough.

my 2 cents
 
Raseri said:
that has real slashitis, and the sets play differently enough to seperate them.

Another reason I want to split them up is to ease things for the reader. Explaining 7 different moves and 2 different items in an analysis really doesn't make a lot of sense to me when they can be split up in to 2 seperate sets that play differently enough.

my 2 cents
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Jirachi has slashitis. Gunk Shot could probably go AC because there isn't much of a reason to use it over Poison Jab; the accuracy is awful for a STAB attack of choice. I don't really know how they play differently to warrant them having their own set. If I'm not mistaken, they both have the same goal of doing damage and then making a self-sacrifice if they have the chance to. I highly doubt it'd be a strain on the reader to read the moveset explanation and then the item difference in AC, you only need like one sentence for each moveslot. 9.9

But I mean if you want to write two different sets, by all means go for it. I just find it unnecessary for you. :)
 
yea id keep them separate just cause of the support move that black sludge muk uses
if you want to combine i wont deny you tho
 
Keep them separate, and keep Gunk Shot on the CB set (2hkoing mola is pretty significant).
 
I honestly like Memento better than Curse on Touncher set. In general I think of Muk as kind of a bulky offensive support to other offensive Pokemon. What I mean by that is that thanks to Poison Jab/Gunk Shot + Poison Touch's ability to PSN super often, it can easily weaken a lot of common walls that come in on it. Regular PSN wears down Seismitoad, Regirock, Misdreavus, and Piloswine very quickly while the extra 13% damage on Alomomola makes it much easier to 2HKO with other offensive partners. The ability to do this means offensive partners such as: Carracosta, Pinsir, Scolipede, Swellow, Sawk, and Kangaskhan greatly benefit from Muk. Muk's ability to take on Tangela, which in general most physical Pokemon have trouble with is nice as well. Some mention of this in the Overview would be nice in my opinion.

As for why I like Memento better than Curse is it because it can easily open up a way for Carracosta, Pinsir, Samurott, or Scolipede to start doing work after Muk has finished wearing down their counters with PSN. Muk is mainly just going around PSN and switching out since while the PSN wears down its switch ins as well, it's still not hard to take down by itself. Curse is still really nice against more defensive teams though, which is why I think it should still be slashed after Memento.
 
Yeah, I'd be cool with Memento being slashed first. I think it ultimately comes down to the type of team you are running and the type of team you want Muk to be a bigger problem for. For the mention of Brick Break in Set Comments of Touncher, the only Flying-type you really miss coverage against is Golbat. All the other ones are either hit neutrally by Poison Jab or Brick Break or hit really hard by Shadow Sneak (Drifblim, Swoobat). Probably the main thing you miss out on coverage against is Golurk—I have doubts that Shadow Sneak can KO. Like I said on IRC, in checks and counters you can also mention that Metang and Regirock can't be Memento'd.

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QC Approved 1/3
 
If you could add a mention of this somewhere in either the Overview or on the Touncher set itself that would be cool. You kind of mentioned it in AC of Touncher, but mentioning that as being Touncher's playstyle in general would be good.

ebeast said:
I think of Muk as kind of a bulky offensive support to other offensive Pokemon. What I mean by that is that thanks to Poison Jab/Gunk Shot + Poison Touch's ability to PSN super often, it can easily weaken a lot of common walls that come in on it. Regular PSN wears down Seismitoad, Regirock, Misdreavus, and Piloswine very quickly while the extra 13% damage on Alomomola makes it much easier to 2HKO with other offensive partners. The ability to do this means offensive partners such as: Carracosta, Pinsir, Scolipede, Swellow, Sawk, and Kangaskhan greatly benefit from Muk. Muk's ability to take on Tangela, which in general most physical Pokemon have trouble with is nice as well. Some mention of this in the Overview would be nice in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Everything else looks good to me.

QC Approved 2/3
 
add stuff that likes memento in partners of the first set such as smash costa, sd pinsir, sd rott etc
id slash brick break with explosion on cb set just because having 4 move coverage is more reliable than kabooom
add pain split in OO
add taunt in OO to cripple stall better
 
prolly worth a small mention; on the cb set, i think it's a good idea to make it clear that poison jab has a much better chance of psn than gunk shot (poison touch doesn't work for gunk shot). the increased chance of poison -sort of- evens out the dmg over time, especially with gunk shot's accuracy in mind and the fact that muk will probably switch out after attacking. just another reason why pjab is preferable, i think.
 
god im such a john, ill try to finish this up on Saturday. I'm in the middle of moving now so I won't have time then. If after Saturday im still not done, ill give this to someone else to write up
 
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