SM OU My first gen7 team

[Surgo]

Thought I'd get back into Pokemon and put together an OU team one night when I couldn't fall asleep. So far it's performed surprisingly okay given how fast it went together. I wanted to build around the setup cores of Zygarde and Mega Mawile. After that I wanted something to pivot for fire and burns so I added Heatran (though it proved to be surprisingly bad at this because everything has focus blast nowadays). I noticed that we were all sandstorm immune and I needed a strong immediate hitter so CBTar went in. At this point a solid ground STAB would really mess with me so in went Landorus-T to solve my ground weaknesses. Finally I had a weakness to water and especially scald and special to a lesser extent, so in went Tangrowth to act as a water resist and overall special sponge. Then it was off to the races.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 148 Atk / 84 Def / 196 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

Way too good. Lets you run a massive ground weak team for little downside. Originally I ran defog in the last slot, but I found that the team was otherwise entirely destroyed by Mega Pinsir so rock slide was way more valuable.

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

I'm not completely sold on the set, but it's hard to deny that the mon itself patches a number of holes. Where I'm dissatisfied is with Knock Off. With most teams having both a mega and a Z, I'm strongly considering replacing the slot with Toxic. This will help me a lot with mons that I otherwise have trouble with.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch

Really strong core, not a lot to say about it. Considering dropping Hyper Cutter for Intimidate because in practice I've never seen Landorus or Salamence switch in on non-evolved Mawile and Intimidate has really strong utility.

Zygarde @ Groundium Z
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail

This might be an unusual choice of moves. I don't quite see the usefulness of double-dance with coil. I like dragon tail over extremespeed because it lets me win over Scizor, especially curse Scizor. I can also play prediction games with Salamence. I do end up having a very tough time with Greninja on the team overall, but that's the trade-off you make.

Z-moves are just stupidly good on speed-boosting sweepers.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 44 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

Standard hole puncher. Sandstorm residual damage is incredible now that leftovers isn't on every mon anymore. Pursuit traps are still very strong. Earthquake has actually not been used too much now that steel no longer resists dark, so I'm considering replacing it with ice beam or ice punch so I can hurt Gliscor switch-ins better, though it does ironically leave me weaker overall to Mega Mawile.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Rock setter, general wear-downer with toxic. With max speed I'm always willing to use earth power vs other Heatran. Magma Storm accuracy has made me want to cry on occasion but the utility it brings to the table is just too strong to miss out on.


Well, I haven't hit the high ranks or anything yet (just spammed a bunch of games to go from 1000 to 1400 yesterday) and I'm sure there's some holes I'm missing due to not understanding modern pokemon. Theoretically I think my biggest weakness is protean Greninja. The life orb version is very challenging but the choice scarf version, thankfully rare, can potentially just destroy this team completely.

 

[Mawilover]

Hey there, i'm Mawilove!
​

I missed the sprites of the Pokémon and the box with your team's import, this makes your post much more beautiful and easy to understand.

Looking at your team, I see a great lack of speed control. You have a Scarf Landorus-T, but you have five other slow Pokémon, so your speed control is far from necessary. You can be 6-0s by well played fast mons.

After some tests, I found this threatlist for your team: Kartana, Greninja, Landorus-T, and Mega Medicham. They are fast enough to outpace your entire team and strong enough to wipe out almost your entire team. Mega Scizor and PhysDef Tangrowth also walls big parts of your team.

Here is a more detailed explanation of each threat and how they are threat to your team if you find it necessary.

Threatlist

Landorus-T:
- Fast enough to outpace your entire team with a Choice Scarf
- Bulky enough to avoid the OHKO (or even 2HKO) from anything you have.
- Strong enough to OHKO Mawile, Tyranitar and Heatran, and 2HKO Landorus-T and Zygarde
- Tangrowth walls It, but is easily u-turned out and fears Z-Move Variants

Kartana:
- Fast enough to outpace your entire team bar Landorus-T
- Bulky enough to avoid the OHKO or even 2HKO from anything you have bar Magma Storm.
- Strong enough to OHKO or 2HKO your entire team (especially with a Z Move)

Mega Scizor:
- Bulky enough to avoid the OHKO or 2HKO from anything you have bar Magma Storm.
- Generate momentum with U-turn and setup war with Mawile
- Only Heatran resists Mega Scizor hits.

Mega Medicham:
- Fast enough to outspeeds your entire team bar Landorus-T
- OHKO your entire team.

Greninja:
- I think you already knows.

Tangrowth:
- Avoid the 2HKO from anything you have bar Magma Storm.
- Strong longevity with Leftovers, Leech Seed and Regenerator
- Your team strongly fears Earthquake + Hidden Power Ice

I know you have Dragon Dance and +2 Priority, but these pokémon will not let you setup.

Here are my suggestions for your team, and I'm going to separate them between the small, the average and the big changes.

Small Changes - Set Changes:

Toxic + Magma Storm > Taunt + Lava Plume

Heatran Set

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

I like toxic, but not in Taunt's place. This makes you unable to remove walls like Clefable and Toxapex. Your EVs are outdated too.

Swords Dance > All-Out Attacker

Mawile Set

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Fang

AoA Mawile will perform much better on this team, being able to lure in and remove Mega Scizor for Zygarde, and and acting as an immediate wallbreaker with super effective moves.

Groundium Z > Coil Glare

Zygarde Set

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 236 HP / 160 SpD / 112 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Glare
- Coil

Coil + Glare Zygarde will also work better on your team, being able to offer speed control in Glare, and even 1v1 with the likes of Scizor and Ferrothorn, or at least crippling them.

Average Changes - Similar pokémon changes:

Landorus-T >

Tornadus-T
They work in a similar way, they're both your fast checks to threats, flying types/ground immunitys and can OHKO Key threats like Mega Pinsir, however Tornadus-T brings more utility for the table: It can cripple walls like Clefable with knock off, safe u-turn for Mawile and Zygarde against mons they can abuse like Toxapex and Magnezone, and Tornadus-T can OHKO more Key threats in Mega Cham and Kartana, also Tornadus-T doenst needs Scarf to be fast, has longer longevity and is a special attacker (your team is lacking)

Tornadus-T set

Tornadus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

OR

Tornadus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

Tangrowth >

Tapu Bulu
They also work in a similar way: Both grass-type solid defensive backbones, handling fast special attackers like Koko and Ash Gren. However, Bulu is less passive, and can beat some walls and not loses Momentum, Bulu also summons Grassy Terrain, which provides much needed healing for Mawile, Zygarde and Heatran, also having the power of Earthquake.

Tapu Bulu Set

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Synthesis

Big Change - Different Pokémon Change:

Tyranitar >

Kartana
I can't see why use Tyranitar, you already have a strong wallbraker in Mega Mawile, It only stacks team weaknesses against fast mons. I should you to replace It for Kartana (Scarf). Kartana outpaces the majority of the metagame, most notably Greninja and Mega Cham, big issues for your team, OHKOing both, and outpacing and OHKOing Offense targets like Ninetales-A and Mega Diancie: its so hard to stop its sweep after a Beast Boost. Kartana greatly appreciates Grassy Terrain, and forms a powerful grass-spam core with Bulu. With Glare and Tornadus-T, it solves your Speed Control issues.

Kartana Set

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Knock Off

Important Tips

- Look for you Z-Move User, if you're not running Z Move Tornadus-T, you should try Steelium Z Heatran.
- The general utility of Coil Glare is preferred for your ts okay to keep Groundium Z Zygarde If you want, just use ESpeed over Dragon Tail.

I hope you like the rate, have a good luck!
Sorry for my bad english, and feel free to PM me on showdown!

 

[lydian]

hi Surgo,

I stumbled across your RMT lately and thought of a nice way to improve it in my point of view. I’ll go over some suggestions as well as why I like the idea behind such change:

Major Changes

• 
  Zygarde —> Celesteela
  
  • Celesteela

    Celesteela @ Leftovers
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Heavy Slam
    - Flamethrower
  • First and foremost, the likes of Mega Latios and Mega Alakazam straight up win against your team. Heatran being your only Steel-type usually means both of these will have a field day against your team. Tangrowth lacking Hidden Power Fire is very weak to Kartana, and Celesteela handles even Fightinium Z variants well enough. Getting rid of Zygarde may look bad initially, but I believe after my other changes are in place it won’t be too bad to leave Zygarde out. Mega Mawile is already a deadly wallbreaker, and I’ll add another win condition to the squad later.
• 
  Tangrowth —> Gastrodon
  
  • Gastrodon

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Storm Drain
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
  • Now that I’ve removed you main Heatran answer in Zygarde—which still is not a very solid Heatran answer, as its vulnerable to a burn from Lava Plume or a Toxic and takes a massive amount of damage from Corkscrew Crash—Gastrodon fills the slot by taking on it as well as most Pokémon Tangrowth dealt with. This is kind of bad for your Zygarde matchup, but I think Choice Scarf bulky Landorus-T is still a fine check and if Zygarde does go out of hand, you do have plenty of strong priority with the finished rate so it’s not that bad for an offensive team. Gastrodon also helps with the Protean Greninja matchup immensely, though it is a bit vulnerable to Spikes.
• 
  Tyranitar —> Ash-Greninja
  
  • Ash-Greninja

    Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Battle Bond
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dark Pulse
    - Water Shuriken
    - Spikes
  • This change fixes some of the gaps the other two suggestions left as well as a couple more your team originally had. Water Shuriken is a deadly priority move that immensely helps your matchup against offense, most notably rain offense, which can be a big nuisance. Spikes make Mega Mawile’s job even easier, amplifying even more its wallbreaking potential. Ash-Greninja also gives you a win condition that you lost with Zygarde. All in all, Tyranitar didn’t help too much as you already have an excellent wallbreaker and stallbreaker in Mega Mawile so there isn’t too much press for it.

Minor Changes

• 
  Defensive —> Offensive
  
  • Offensive

    Heatran @ Steelium Z
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Flash Cannon
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock
  • Now that Celesteela already takes care of Tapu Lele and Gastrodon can soft check Volcarona with Toxic, there’s honestly no need for a Specially Defensive Heatran. With the Z slot also freed from Zygarde, Heatran gets a chance to become a deadly wallbreaker that can really rattle Balance alongside Mega Mawile. Steelium Z is preferred to let Heatran pack more of a punch to would be checks like Gliscor, Zygarde, and several others, but Mega Mawile also really appreciates the aforementioned Ground-types getting weakened or KOed so they do make a formidable offensive core.
• 
  Rock Slide —> Defog
  
  • Defog

    Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 80 HP / 148 Atk / 84 Def / 196 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn
    - Defog
  • With Celesteela you already have a great Mega Pinsir check, so forgoing Rock Slide is fine. While a Rock-type move would be nice for Tornadus-T, I’d say your team has enough outs against it so it’s not really a problem. Defog really helps your team better deal with Toxic Spikes and opposing Spikes, as these could be very troublesome for Gastrodon in particular, which would leave the door wide open for Ash-Greninja or Magearna to power through it.
• 
  Hyper Cutter —> Intimidate
  
  • Intimidate

    Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Play Rough
    - Sucker Punch
    - Thunder Punch
  • Intimidate alongside the slightly higher bulk is really important here, to help check physical attackers that can overwhelm Landorus-T like Weavile and Mega Heracross. The speed benchmark gets the jump on Sassy Mega Venusaur and Skarmory.

So that’s my rate. I might have went overboard and changed too much, but I really liked how the final version turned out. Hope you enjoy my take on your team, feel free to contact me if you have any questions :)

Rate

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch

Heatran @ Steelium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 148 Atk / 84 Def / 196 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Defog

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Gastrodon-East @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

 

[Surgo]

Thanks everyone. Maybe some more detailed replies either but the threats you noted were definitely ones I was starting to have trouble with starting around the 1500 bracket (Landorus-T not so much, but Kartana and Mega Medicham became big problems).

I had actually tested and found before seeing these posts that Intimidate > Hyper Cutter and Defog > Rock Slide ended up working better.

I ended up really frustrated with Toxic on Heatran; it never really worked out great. These suggestions for Heatran are definitely mirroring what I'm seeing.

The bigger changes as well, less for me to say there. CBTar especially just hasn't been pulling its weight.