My first RMT.

[Falconator]

Hello, users of Smogon. This is my first attempt at a RMT, so hopefully all goes well. If any rules are broken, please tell me and I'll do my best to make everything right.


I basically came up with a team that could do a bit of everything, save for Baton Passing since I'm not a huge fan of it. So after a little experimenting, this is what I came up with. Don't hold back on suggestions. I want to hear what you have to say :)

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Crobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP
Nature: Jolly

Taunt
Brave Bird
Roost
U-Turn

Odd, I know, but follow me on this one. LeadApe’s Fake Out is virtually worthless and it stands no chance against Brave Bird. Taunt is great for those Leads hoping to lay out Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes. This guy infuriates Roserade since he resists both STAB attacks, keeps it from laying out entry hazards like Toxic Spikes and has a SE STAB attack. He outspeeds and OHKO’s Scpetile as well, who has proven to be somewhat of a hassle in the past. Roost lets Crobat take away some of that Brave Bird recoil and gets rid of some weaknesses. U-Turn gets him out of a bad situation while still doing a bit of damage on the way out.


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Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EV Spread: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Nature: Timid

Shadow Ball
Energy Ball/Thunderbolt
Psychic
Focus Blast

I usually save him for the halfway point of the game, usually after Hippowdon, and let him decimate everything in sight while trying to not get touched by of my opponent’s attacks. Umbreon has a bad habit of attracting Machamp’s Dynamicpunch and Infernape’s Close Combat, so Gengar comes into to absorb the moves. Exploders hate seeing me switch to Gengar. Being immune to Rapid Spin is another huge plus for him and he counters the famous Spinners well. Max Special Attack + Life Orb Starmie’s Surf fails to OHKO while Shadow Ball is a OHKO to that annoyance. Energy Ball is a OHKO on Donphan thanks to SR damage, and the chance is high even without it while Swampert stands no chance. Thunderbolt rids me of any problems with Gyarados and Skarmory, and possibly Starmie after entry damage. Psychic is wonderful for switching into Infernape as Gengar outspeeds it and delivers the pain. Focus Blast offers great coverage and takes care of T-Tar and Heatran.

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Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EV Spread: 252 HP, 168 Defense, 88 Special Defense
Nature: Impish

Stealth Rock
Slack Off
Earthquake
Crunch/Stone Edge/Roar

My best Physical Wall, and a personal favorite Pokemon of mine. He is also my Stealth Rock Pokemon. Slack Off/Lefties keep him alive and Earthquake is the powerful STAB move. Crunch helps against other sturdy Pokemon that Earthquake doesn’t do a whole lot to and few Pokemon enjoy a Defense drop. Stone Edge hits the Flying types and provides good coverage with Earthquake. Roar is another option but it honestly doesn’t get a lot of usage. Hippo usually appears early for SR and to counter an Electric attack thrown at Crobat.



I’m considering Skarmory to avoid the Sand should it be seen as too detrimental to the team. On the downside, it would make my team would be a bit too weak to Electric and take away the ground counter for them. Another candidate I'm considering is Celebi. Heal Bell could help should a Thunder Wave hit Umbreon or Scizor. A Screening variation would benefit the team nicely as well since the threat of priority moves is almost nullified and could help the Life Orbers should they ever lose the Speed contest.

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Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EV spread: 252 HP, 92 Defense, 164 Special Defense
Nature: Careful

Wish
Payback
Protect
Toxic

Wish support is fantastic to have for this team since there is a great deal of switching on my part, and Umbreon provides Wish support very well. He is more Special Defense based because I need someone who can take a bit of damage from the Special Attackers. Wish is great for healing Pokemon like Gengar or even Umbreon when Protect is used right after it. Protect lets me scout for Choice Users and works real well if it is a Normal, Fighting or Ground move because Gengar loves those moves. Toxic is wonderful for bringing down an annoying Wall and Protect on top of it makes for a hair-ripping moment. Payback is cool for hitting opposing Gengar and Taunters hoping Umbreon doesn’t have an attack.

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Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technitian
EV Spread: 252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Speed
Nature: Adamant

Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Superpower
Pursuit

Well, he’s my favorite Pokemon besides Mewtwo and he has proven to be a real force wherever he goes. His immunity to Poison has helped me out quite a bit in the past against Toxic lovers and he does a wonderful job of heavily damaging or killing fleeing Pokemon. U-turn lets me bail Scizor out of there while doing some damage. Superpower is nice because it takes care of any Magnezone hoping to trap me (would work well for Skarmory should I use him) and destroys non-Scarfed Heatran. Scizor is usually late game cleanup or will make an appearance to absorb a Toxic early if that situation happens.

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Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EV Spread: 64 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 192 Speed
Nature: Naïve

Grass Knot
Fire Blast
Close Combat
Hidden Power Ice

Man, I love this guy. With these moves, Infernape can hit every Pokemon for at least Neutral damage, which is very handy. Grass Knot lets him laugh at Swampert. Fire Blast decimates Steels like Skarmory and takes out the popular Scizor, though Bullet Punch can present a threat but I’m not sure how much it would do. Close Combat is a mighty STAB Attack as well, allowing Ape to dish out heavy on the Physical side. Blissey is no problem. HP Ice takes care of the Dragons.

 

[ginganinja]

I would like a list or better idea of how the team plays and how it deals with threats so I can better help you.

Some quick points

Umbreon functions best as a trapper. It can still provide wish support if you want to.

Put swampert in your team instead of your hippowdon, it can still stealth rock and it is a good lead.

Personally I would try something slightly more bulkier as a sweeper but SD lucario is a strong alternative to a sweeper as it provides priority and can weaken your opponents team for Infernape etc.

 

[haunter]

Your Crobat stands no chance against lead-Ape. A smart player would never use fake out on it but rather fire blast. And a blazed fire blast + the recoil from BB will kill your bat, while Ape will be still alive thanks to focus sash. If you want to keep your Crobat lead, then use super fang over BB and max out the HP EVs, so you'll survive some unboosted hits while crippling most slow leads like Swampert and Hippowdon thanks to taunt + super fang.

You have nothing to deal with Gyarados, DD Gyara can virtually 6-0 your team after a DD. Replace Umbreon with a standard Vaporeon:

Vaporeon@levtovers
nature: bold
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe
-surf
-hidden power electric
-wish
-protect

so you'll keep the wish support while earning a solid answer to Gyrados, Infernape and Heatran among the others.

Max Special Attack + Life Orb Starmie’s Surf fails to OHKO while Shadow Ball is a OHKO to that annoyance

I don't know what you're trying to say here, as a LO Starmie will almost always OHKO Gengar after SR damage, and it's faster so it can easily score two hits and finish it off. Actually you may try to use a Pokemon like Latias in place of Gengar, as it has a base 130 SpD, access to recover and the same Speed stat, meaning that it can come on bulky water type way easier while still retaining a decent offensive power.

 

[Quickster]

For your lead Crobat, I'd recommend you use this set which i made ( with the help of the Strategy Dex :D):

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 124 HP / 132 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

~ Hypnosis
~ Taunt
~ U-Turn
~ Super Fang

This is similar to what Haunter said. The spread lets you at worst unless they have a scarf, speed tie with base 130s and i think the Atk Evs lets you KO something by using Super Fang + U-turn. Can't quite remember what it is though ._. sorry. Anyways, Taunt slower Leads, Sleep leads who cant kill you easily and Black Sludge is for trickers who think they can safely trick a scarf onto you then find out that it wasn't exactly the best choice... It also heals you to boot :)

 

[jc104]

To Quick Man - Black sludge is a bad idea as it gives trick users another crippling item to offload onto one of your other pokemon. I fully support the idea of super fang though.

 

[Falconator]

Thanks for the assistance, guys. I appreciate the help immensely.

Umbreon functions best as a trapper. It can still provide wish support if you want to.

Would you recommend a set of Mean Look, Wish, Protect and Baton Pass for Umbreon? It leaves me a bit weak to Taunt, so an attacking move would be preferred but if you think it is unnecessary, I'll go without it.


Put swampert in your team instead of your hippowdon, it can still stealth rock and it is a good lead.

M'kay, how about this set:

Swampert @ Lefties
Ability: Torrent
EV's: 252 HP, 6 Attack, 252 Defense
Nature: Impish

Stealth Rock
Waterfall
Earthquake
Avalanche



Personally I would try something slightly more bulkier as a sweeper but SD lucario is a strong alternative to a sweeper as it provides priority and can weaken your opponents team for Infernape etc

Who should Lucario replace and what moves should he be using alongside SD? If possible, I would like a set without SD those rarely go well with my (in)experience. But if I use a SD set, how should it be played safely? Yes, I'm greener than the grass on my yard when it comes to set up moves on sweepers. :P

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Your Crobat stands no chance against lead-Ape. A smart player would never use fake out on it but rather fire blast. And a blazed fire blast + the recoil from BB will kill your bat, while Ape will be still alive thanks to focus sash. If you want to keep your Crobat lead, then use super fang over BB and max out the HP EVs, so you'll survive some unboosted hits while crippling most slow leads like Swampert and Hippowdon thanks to taunt + super fang.

How about this set for Crobat:
Crobat @ Lefties
Ability: Inner focus
EV's: 252 HP, 252 Speed, 6 Special Defense(?)
Nature: Jolly

Super Fang
Taunt
Roost
U-Turn

If you feel Crobat should be replaced, can you give me a recommendation or two? I want my lead to be speedy and to stop others from setting up hazards. I'm thinking Tauntdactyl might be a good choice.


You have nothing to deal with Gyarados, DD Gyara can virtually 6-0 your team after a DD. Replace Umbreon with a standard Vaporeon:


Vaporeon@levtovers
nature: bold
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe
-surf
-hidden power electric
-wish
-protect

so you'll keep the wish support while earning a solid answer to Gyrados, Infernape and Heatran among the others.

Hmm... I like this set. I'll use it :)

Does this work well against Skarmory? I'm worried that Toxic could effectively ruin Vaporeon but if HP E can take him out quick enough, no worries, right?


Actually you may try to use a Pokemon like Latias in place of Gengar, as it has a base 130 SpD, access to recover and the same Speed stat, meaning that it can come on bulky water type way easier while still retaining a decent offensive power.


Sounds like a good idea. Tell me what you think of this set:

Latias @ Lefties
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 4 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
Nature: Timid

Surf
Dragon Pulse
Calm Mind
Recover

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For your lead Crobat, I'd recommend you use this set which i made ( with the help of the Strategy Dex :D):

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 124 HP / 132 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

~ Hypnosis
~ Taunt
~ U-Turn
~ Super Fang


To be honest, I don't like Hypnosis on a frail Pokemon, which is the main reason Gengar doesn't have it. Crobat would be in trouble if it does not connect and the accuracy makes me turn away from it. I like to Roost in case Crobat takes some damage and sees a chance to shrug off some damage.


This is similar to what Haunter said. The spread lets you at worst unless they have a scarf, speed tie with base 130s and i think the Atk Evs lets you KO something by using Super Fang + U-turn. Can't quite remember what it is though ._. sorry. Anyways, Taunt slower Leads, Sleep leads who cant kill you easily and Black Sludge is for trickers who think they can safely trick a scarf onto you then find out that it wasn't exactly the best choice... It also heals you to boot :)


Don't worry, my memory isn't anything special, lol. I don't like the idea of Black Sludge for Trick purposes because if I don't KO the Pokemon, it can Trick the Sludge back on a Pokemon that wouldn't want it.I might go with it if the common Trick users can be KO'd by 2 attacks from Crobat and the 1/8 damage from the Black Sludge.

After considering the posts, this is the new and (imo) improved team:

Crobat @ Lefties (possibly Black sludge)
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 252 speed, 252 HP, 6 Special Defense (?)

Super Fang
Roost
Taunt
U-Turn

Swampert @ Lefties
Nature: Impish
Ev's: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 6 Attack

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Waterfall
Avalanche

Vaporeon @ Lefties
Nature: Bold
EV's: 188 HP, 252 Defense, 68 Speed

Hidden Power Electric
Surf
Wish
Protect

Latias @ Lefties
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 4 HP

Surf
Dragon Pulse
Calm Mind
Recover

Scizor @ Choice Band
Nature:
EV's: 252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Speed

Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Superpower
Pursuit

Infernape @ Life Orb
Nature: Naïve
EV's: 64 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 192 Speed

Grass Knot
Fire Blast
Close Combat
Hidden Power Ice



Honestly, I believe the team is significantly better now, just after a couple posts. I notice the party seems a bit weak to Physical Sceptile. He outspeeds Ape and can KO him with Earthquake, something Scizor wouldn't enjoy either. Vaporeon won't like Leaf Blade and Swampert has no chance. Latias would have to be careful of X-Scissor if she has damage and Crobat can only U-Turn out of there or else risk Rock Slide. Specially-based Apes that outspeed my own can also be a problem. I don't think Vaporeon would do too well against a Grass Knot and we all know how Swampert would fare. I have no idea if Scizor can KO with Bulllet Punch after hazard damage and possible Life Orb damage but I do know Fire Blast would fry him. Crobat can only U-Turn him.

Any other threats I should be careful around? And of course, any further suggestions and/of advice would be greatly appreciated :).

 

[haunter]

Without Hippowdon you have nothing to switch into Lucario and that's not advisable considering that if it gets a SD it's going to hurt your team badly. I'd keep Hippo, honestly.

About your lead: I don't think that Aero would fit in this team, you've already a Pokemon to set up SR and a sucide lead like Aerodactyl isn't going to help your team at all. Keep Crobat if you like it, or consider using a life orb Starmie with rapid spin, which usually beats most of the common SR leads.

I'd prefer a life orb Latias with: dragon pulse, hp fire, surf and recover over your current set. This way you'll have the chance to eliminate Scizor who think they can switch in and pursuit you.

I don't see the problem you mentioned with Skarmory. I've rarely (if ever) seen a toxic Skarmory, and anyway surf already hurts it enough for it to stay in and attempt at stalling you (btw surf hits Skarm harder than a super effective hidden power), especially since you'll be faster of most Skarm.

 

[anubite]

Crobat -- drop Leftovers and get Black Sludge, this way, Trick leads get poisoned instead of healed.

To Quick Man - Black sludge is a bad idea as it gives trick users another crippling item to offload onto one of your other pokemon. I fully support the idea of super fang though.

It doesn't matter though, your opponent may get to trick again, but it doesn't matter too much since the tricker has been poisoned and he'll have to give up a turn to poison the next pokemon as well. I consider it a fair trade off. It's better than him getting healed!

Also, just as a consideration, I've found Heatwave + Super Fang to be superior to Hypnosis – it surprises your opponent and gaurentees Crobat can kill usual counters like Foretress and Scizor (who cannot OHKO with Bullet Punch or Gyro Ball even if Crobat has 0 hp EV). Maxing SpA instead of HP also gives Crobat enough SpA to OHKO Scizor and Foretress with heatwave. That said, Air Slash is also a good candidate and can 2HKO Scizor, OHKO Breloom, and works great in conjunction with Hypnosis (I've had opponents wake up only to be flinched).

You can keep your current crobat though, only... watch out for Ghost leads and steel switch ins. Heat Wave will also OHKO Abamasnow leads and 2HKO Metagross leads (even if they have an anti-fire berry) provided the Metagross has not invested in SpD. It sometimes forces Jirachi switch ins to run away.

You could even get both, though that would definitely force you to drop the HP EV for SpA EV.

Super Fang
Taunt
Heat Wave
Air Slash

Some might not advocate that set though, but I just find Hypnosis unreliable and HP EV isn't always that amazing with Stealth Rock around, Crobat should taunt and hurt what he can and not bother retreating - he isn't meant to be a sweeper but a disrupter of team coordination. Roost is usually worthless too, since Crobat can't take a hit that well.

 

[haunter]

It doesn't matter though, your opponent may get to trick again, but it doesn't matter too much since the tricker has been poisoned and he'll have to give up a turn to poison the next pokemon as well. I consider it a fair trade off. It's better than him getting healed!

Black sludge doesn't induce the poison status on non-poison Pokemon, other types Pokemon just take damage equal to 1/8th of their maximum HP if holding this item. So, once again leftovers is generally better.

 

[Colonel M]

Even so, it's not a bad Trick weapon.

I'm thinking that you should have Brave Bird > U-Turn and toning the EVs just to outpace something random like Adamant Gyarados after a Dragon Dance. Simply put, another check against such a threat would be nice. Or, if you don't feel like doing that, you can tone down to have enough Spe to outspeed base 115s. So your EV suggestions:

- 252 HP | 12 Atk | 244 Spe (outspeeds +1 Adamant Gyarados)
- 252 HP | 120 Atk | 136 Spe (outspeeds Starmie)

Either one is doable. If you want to get nitpicky with surviving a Fire Blast + Brave Bird recoil... I dunno about that.

 

[Falconator]

Without Hippowdon you have nothing to switch into Lucario and that's not advisable considering that if it gets a SD it's going to hurt your team badly. I'd keep Hippo, honestly.

Who should Hippowdon replace then?


About your lead: I don't think that Aero would fit in this team, you've already a Pokemon to set up SR and a sucide lead like Aerodactyl isn't going to help your team at all. Keep Crobat if you like it, or consider using a life orb Starmie with rapid spin, which usually beats most of the common SR leads.

I like Crobat but I'll replace him if a better speedy lead can be found. Life Orb Starmie is a neat Pokemon but that makes half of my team Water type, which doesn't seem like a good idea. Still, if I were to use him, would this set work?:

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural cure
EV's: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Nature: Timid

Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin


I'd prefer a life orb Latias with: dragon pulse, hp fire, surf and recover over your current set. This way you'll have the chance to eliminate Scizor who think they can switch in and pursuit you.

Yeah, good point. Alright, I'll run that set.


I don't see the problem you mentioned with Skarmory. I've rarely (if ever) seen a toxic Skarmory, and anyway surf already hurts it enough for it to stay in and attempt at stalling you (btw surf hits Skarm harder than a super effective hidden power), especially since you'll be faster of most Skarm.

Yeah, Toxic Skarmory has been a pain before and so has Toxic Registeel. Noted about the HP damage.

@ anubite: I'm not so sure I like that set. Heat Wave is nice and the OHKO on Scizor/Foretress is cool but I like U-Turn to hit guys like Alakazam hard. If you (or other users) could explain the set in depth, I'll see what to do from that.


@ Colonel: Outspeeding Starmie is great to do... Um, I'm not exactly sure what set I should run. I think I have enough for Gyarados so it's between your outspeeding Starmie and what I have now.

 

[ginganinja]

Yeah I agree with haunter, if swamper is not leading I would swap it for hippowdon or something bulky.
It has been a while since i last played OU but I thought that sceptile and the regi pokes are not widely used in the OU tier. Sure you may have problems with them but its difficult to have a team prepared for every pokemon.
Just wondering how your team deals with suicune especially offensive ones with Calm Mind.
Also is another sweeper required, can anyone comment on this, I guess I am biased as I am an offensive player but infernape just seems a little fragile for a main sweeper, just a question.

 

[haunter]

Even so, it's not a bad Trick weapon.

I'm thinking that you should have Brave Bird > U-Turn and toning the EVs just to outpace something random like Adamant Gyarados after a Dragon Dance. Simply put, another check against such a threat would be nice. Or, if you don't feel like doing that, you can tone down to have enough Spe to outspeed base 115s. So your EV suggestions:

- 252 HP | 12 Atk | 244 Spe (outspeeds +1 Adamant Gyarados)
- 252 HP | 120 Atk | 136 Spe (outspeeds Starmie)

Either one is doable. If you want to get nitpicky with surviving a Fire Blast + Brave Bird recoil... I dunno about that.

There's no way Crobat can survive a blazed fire blast + the BB recoil damage as fire blast deals 87% on average to a 252 HP Crobat while BB finishes it off with its recoill, considering that it OHKOs Infernape (which, as stated before, will survive thanks to focus sash)

Yeah I agree with haunter, if swamper is not leading I would swap it for hippowdon or something bulky.
It has been a while since i last played OU but I thought that sceptile and the regi pokes are not widely used in the OU tier. Sure you may have problems with them but its difficult to have a team prepared for every pokemon.
Just wondering how your team deals with suicune especially offensive ones with Calm Mind.
Also is another sweeper required, can anyone comment on this, I guess I am biased as I am an offensive player but infernape just seems a little fragile for a main sweeper, just a question.

If you really fear CM Cune which, indeed, may be a problem for this team, then you may opt for roar on Vaporeon over HP electric. This way you'll probably lose to taunt Gyra, but will be able to force Suicune - and other random stat-uppers - out.

And yeah, I meant that you had to switch back from Swampert to Hippowdon as Hippo can somehow counter Lucaro - taking "only" around 80% from a +2 close combat while OHKOing it back with EQ.

About Starmie, you may use a: surf\thunderbolt\rapid spin\recover set with LO, so you might be able to save it for later in the game. LO Starmie would also deal a decent damage to a +1 Suicune, meaning that it won't set up easily on you. Just make some tests to see what fits better into your team.

About Skarmory: once again it seems a non-problem for me. If you keep Crobat, you can switch in on it with impunity and taunt + super fang + u-turn to Infernape. If you opt for Starmie, then you can switch on it and force it out with either surf or thunderbolt, toxic isn't a problem for Starmie thanks to natural cure.

 

[Colonel M]

There's no way Crobat can survive a blazed fire blast + the BB recoil damage as fire blast deals 87% on average to a 252 HP Crobat while BB finishes it off with its recoill, considering that it OHKOs Infernape (which, as stated before, will survive thanks to focus sash)

Let me rephrase what I meant. I meant he did this:

Turn 1:
Super Fang
Fire Blast
Leftover heal

Turn 2:
BB

My question meant if I placed those extra Atk EVs into SpD, could he take a Fire Blast + BB?

 

[Falconator]

Just wondering how your team deals with suicune especially offensive ones with Calm Mind.
Also is another sweeper required, can anyone comment on this, I guess I am biased as I am an offensive player but infernape just seems a little fragile for a main sweeper, just a question.

I haven't met a Suicune with this team yet so I don't know from experience. Ape could hurt one pretty badly and then just about anyone could finish it off. Scizor or Latias would do good.

MixApe is very deadly. He relies on not getting touched by his opponents and because of that, I give him a Life Orb to give him a boost in power. Because Infernape can be played multiple ways, my opponent has to do some guesswork. If another sweeper should go on my team, it would probably be Special since I have more than enough Physical. Then again, we did ditch Gengar so idk, lol.

If you really fear CM Cune which, indeed, may be a problem for this team, then you may opt for roar on Vaporeon over HP electric. This way you'll probably lose to taunt Gyra, but will be able to force Suicune - and other random stat-uppers - out.

And yeah, I meant that you had to switch back from Swampert to Hippowdon as Hippo can somehow counter Lucaro - taking "only" around 80% from a +2 close combat while OHKOing it back with EQ.

About Starmie, you may use a: surf\thunderbolt\rapid spin\recover set with LO, so you might be able to save it for later in the game. LO Starmie would also deal a decent damage to a +1 Suicune, meaning that it won't set up easily on you. Just make some tests to see what fits better into your team.

About Skarmory: once again it seems a non-problem for me. If you keep Crobat, you can switch in on it with impunity and taunt + super fang + u-turn to Infernape. If you opt for Starmie, then you can switch on it and force it out with either surf or thunderbolt, toxic isn't a problem for Starmie thanks to natural cure.

See, I'm not sure how much of a problem Suicune could be for the team because I haven't faced one yet. And overall, I have very little experience against Suicune to work with. Could Hippowdon face an incoming Suicune and Roar him away safely or would Suicune get a quick OHKO then boost up?

On all my Starmies, I've run the BoltBeam combo and it has yet to disappoint. Would replacing Recover with Ice Beam be advisable or should I keep it as is?

True, Natural Cure is great for Toxic carrying Skarmory. Yeah, I'll go with LO Starmie.

So what 6 Pokemon should my team consist of?

 

[ginganinja]

Even if Hippowdon could roar away suicune it would be crippled for the rest of the match, so no Hippowdon cannot stand up to suicune. Stealth Rock cannot hurt you too badly so if you wanted you could drop rapid spin on starmie but I would keep recover. Just another idea, if you had another stealth rock lead Hippowdon could run a set like this...
Earthquake ,Stockpile, Roar and Slack Off which is a *bitch* to take down. However having new team member might wreck your teams synergy.

 

[Falconator]

Ok, so I guess Suicune presents a problem for my team if encountered late-game. I'll have to be careful about it.

The only problem I have with that set is how it doesn't have Stealth Rock. Almost every team needs Stealth Rock and Hippowdon is a great Stealth Rock Pokemon.

 

[haunter]

Bolt\beam is a great combo, but water\electric still offers good type coverage and recover is really hepful on LO Starmie, that's why I said to test what Pokemon and set works better for your team.

I advise against stockpile Hippo, you need SR and since you're not making use of entry hazards - other than SR itself - you may find that Hippo set useful only in a handful of situations.

Currently your six Pokemo should be: LO Starmie, Hippowdon, Inferanpe, Scizor, Vaporeon, Latias.

Oh, and if you feel that sandstorm is not beneficial to your team, you might try a Gliscor (roost, taunt, EQ, SR) over Hippo as it also counters Lucario and other fighting types (and also TTar).

 

[Falconator]

Yesterday I used a Recover/Surf/Thunderbolt/Rapid spin set and it rarely got the chance to use Recover. I did have a few occasions were having Ice Beam in its place would have been better, though, so I'm thinking of running Rapid Spin/Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam. Vaporeon's Wishing should help reduce some of that Life Orb recoil.


Stockpile Hippowdon was never really too alluring to me, mostly because it limits my movepool a bit too much. I'm leaning towards replacing Hiipowdon since SS screws around with Latias' and Vaporeon's recovery a bit too much while also draining my Orb users. Gliscor is a neat idea since it offers a good switch-in to Electric attacks that Starmie and Vaporeon seem to attract.


I've also been considering a SR Heatran. Nowadays, Scizor has made every team carry a Fire move and Scizor attracts Fire moves more than the famous lightningrod that is Gyarados attracts Electric attacks. The set in mind is Substitute, Stealth Rock, Fire Blast and Earth Power. Vaporeon works excellently with Heatran since Wish gives him more life and Substitutes. Vaporeon can absorb an incoming Waterfall from Gyarados, Surf from Empoleon/Starmie/Suicune/other Vaporeon that try to switch in on Heatran and HP Electric back. Thoughts?