My OU Sun Team - first RMT post

[JDFstar023]

I actually posted this RMT about a week ago, mistakenly under the category of Dream World. Since then, I've perused the forums a bit more, and got a feel for how things actually work on here. That being said, I'm "re-do"ing the post I made earlier into something more polished, refined, and well thought out. Also, the older post got no responses, most likely due to the Dream World tag, which provides me with even more justification :)

MY SUN TEAM​

Ninetales @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs:128 HP/ 252 SpA/ 20 SpD/ 108 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- SolarBeam
- Sunny Day

The pivotal Sun team Ninetales. Because of its speed, Sunny Day is necessary to ensure weather is thrown up. This Ninetales has surprised me as having relatively good special bulk. Considering sun is up, I can survive a choice specced, max special attack Hydro Pump from rain team Politoeds. The power of STAB flamethrower in the sun should also not be underestimated. Will-O-Wisp is also super handy on unexpecting setup sweepers, such as DD Salamence, Dragonite, Gyarados, or Scrafty. Burn cripples any chance at a viable sweep.

Changes to consider: none at this point in time, fairly standard Ninetales.

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: Skill Link
EVs:248 HP/ 84 Atk/ 176 Def
Nature: Relaxed
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Shard
- Toxic Spikes
- Icicle Spear

Donphan wasn't exactly underperforming on my team, however he definitely wasn't filling the holes in my team that Cloyster now is. He provides me with two things that Donphan didn't: reliable, powerful Ice-type moves, and Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes is vital for two reasons. First, it allows my Cresselia to become even more of a beast by stalling people to death with poison. Second, it allows my late-game cleaner to benefit from the nifty defense drop. But Icicle Spear really has been a blessing for my team. D-Dance Dragonite, Parashuffler Dragonite, Choice Dragonite..any Dragonite was giving my team a ton of issues. Donphan's Ice Shard just wasn't cutting it. Icicle Spear + Ice Shard scores 2HKO's on any Dragonite variation(OHKO's offensive variations), including bulky sets. With Cloyster's sky high defense, surviving moves such as Dragon Claw, Outrage, or Fire Punch is no trouble, only doing 40%, 58%, and 36% damage respectively.

Changes to consider: just added this guy, he's functioning great, none at this point.

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 100 HP/ 152 SpA/ 100 SpD/ 152 Spe
Nature: Calm
- HP Ground
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance

Let me start off by saying I think Volcarona is one of the biggest threats in today's metagame, if used properly. Without a spinner, however, it's practically useless. Everyone knows that Mothra's special bulk is above average, but with reflect up this poke really becomes a nuisance, allowing me to setup with QD. Optimal time to switch in is usually against Ferrothorn, Scizor, Jellicent, or something else that's scared of me in the sun, force a switch and proceed to sweep after one Quiver Dance. I initially thought SolarBeam would be the move of choice for the 3rd attack slot, however HP Ground provides better coverage against some top-notch threats. I also already have two pokes running SB currently, so having it here is a bit redundant. Volcarona also buffers my team against the threat of Latios. It survives timid, scarfed Latios' most powerful move, Draco Meteor, allotting me time to setup and take it down the next turn, or whatever they switched into. Heat Wave is in over Flamethrower because of the extra damage and burn chance, which surprisingly comes in handy on occasion.

Changes to consider: Swapping this poke with a ScarfRachi(Ice Punch, Iron Head, U-Turn, Trick) for extra coverage against dragons, to get some nifty flinches, and to cripple strategies with trick. Jirachi still plays the role as a Latios buffer as well.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/ 200 SpD/ 52 Def
Nature: Bold
- Reflect
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight

One way or another, this Cresselia usually ends up being my MVP. She's known as one of the best mixed walls in the game, and for good reason. 444 HP with 470 Defense(after reflect) and 346 Special Defense is no laughing matter. Cresselia survives timid, scarfed Hydreigon Dark Pulse, as well as +1 Scrafty Crunch, walling two significant threats and allowing for T-Wave distribution. Reflect is another reason why Cresselia is so helpful, providing support to the relatively special defensive members of my team such as Ninetales, Venusaur, and Volcarona. Ice Beam is a good special attack that provides coverage against what usually are its biggest threats. Moonlight is a great source of recovery in the sun, giving back 2/3 of my health. And finally, Levitate provides insurance for Ninetales, Darmanitan, and Volcarona, with the omnipresent Earthquake in most physically offensive sets. Some might ask why Thunder Wave is in as opposed to Toxic. With Cloyster, running Toxic becomes needless, and with Thunder Wave, my slowest pokemon, Cloyster, has its offensive capabilities greatly enhanced.

Changes to consider: I find this pokemon functioning so well, there are none at the moment.

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 204 HP / 136 Def / 160 SAtk / 8 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

I left the metagame for nearly a year, to come back with it completely dominated by weather-abusing abilities. It's still surprising that drought + chlorophyll hasn't been banned. With 0 EV's and a 31 IV in Speed, Venusaur reaches 390, allowing it to outspeed non-boosted, non-scarfed threats. This pokemon in the sun is simply amazing. One growth and my special attack reaches 544, allowing me to obliterate bulky waters, grounds, rocks, and lots of other stuff with STAB SolarBeam. HP Fire gets a nice boost from the sun and also gets Venusaur neutral coverage against everything.Sludge Bomb is basically there for good STAB and to round out the set. Venusaur's bulk should also not be underestimated; with support from Cresselia, it has extremely well-rounded defensive stats of 364/ 340/ 261. Most cases, getting a growth off is bad news for the opponent. With speed, bulk, and amazing offensive capabilities, Venusaur acts as one of my team's main threats.

Changes to consider: making a Mixed, wall breaker set, although I don't know what moves or EV distribution I'd use.

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- U-Turn
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Superpower

This pokemon is the main motivation for me making a sun team. When I first played through my version of Black, I caught myself a cute Darumaka. Noticing it plowed through in game battles like none other, I did a little more research and found out just how good Darmanitan is. Flare Blitz is a devastating attack that dents anything significantly, but we'll get to that later. With choice scarf, Darmanitan outspeeds anything non-boosted or non-scarfed, acting as one of the tier's best revenge killers. Fighting, ground, and fire provide excellent coverage. U-Turn allows for Darmanitan to scout my opponent out, and Earthquake is one of my team's few Heatran checks. Superpower is mainly there to round out the set and provide good coverage against dark types. Now comes Flare Blitz. With the sun, this attack is monstrous. It scores 2HKO's against walls THAT RESIST IT, such as Gastrodon, Vaporeon, and Jellicent. Darmanitan acts as a great cleanup act late game, OHKO'ing with Flare Blitz most anything it sees that doesn't resist fire, and lots of things that do.

So that's it! I kinda touched upon some of the problems this team has. Dragons do cause me trouble, especially Dragonites. Heatran also poses troubles to me every once in awhile, however I think this team is layin' pretty solid right now. Comment, criticism, suggestions, all are welcome on my first RMT!

 

[emirinho]

Hello,

I have to say that a DD dragonite Completely destroys this team. He can set up on at least 3 of your pokemon.Also you don't have a Pokemon to fight other rain teams. A solution to these problems could be a shiftry. With his speed and coverage he can outspeed and ohko dragonite,salamence with hp ice. He can also beat Politoed and many other members of the classical rain teams used today.

You may not see this kind of shifry used in sun teams however,it would greatly help you strenghten your team.

Here is the set

Shiftry Life orb
Chlorophyll
Timid
252 spe 252 sp.att
HP Ice
Dark pulse
Giga drain
Nasty plot

This Shiftry set does have a bit of a lack coverage, however the "overpowered" Darmanitan covers it all.

 

[Style_Dota]

Hey. A few minor changes I would make.

If you don't want Fiery Dance on Volc, I would suggest you run Flamethrower over Heat Wave, since Flamethrower is a much more reliable move, and 90% accuracy can troll you at the worst times. Thanks to the sun boost, the 5 BP difference isn't too big of a deal.

Second, I don't really see the need for Future Sight on Cresselia. I would suggest giving Cresselia Ice Beam over Future Sight in order to handle some threats (like Dragonite, who dominates this team).

Energy Ball over Solarbeam. Less Base Power, but Solarbeam leaves Venusaur weak to A TON of threats. I would also suggest Sleep Powder over Toxic, since this team is going to be forcing a lot of switches. If you could explain what the EV spread does there too that would be great, since I don't see how that's functioning at all to be honest.

Last, give Darmanitan U-turn over Earthquake / Rock Slide. This helps you scout your opponent's switches

Cool team overall

 

[Dark Pulse]

seems like a great team - really well thought-out two.

I am only suggesting two minor changes. First up: I suggest you remove Solarbeam on Venusaur for Energy Ball. The only reason I say that is Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Politoed. With Solarbeam, you can't hurt T-tar, Hippowdon or Politoed. But with Energy Ball, all three of those Pokes are scared of you after you Growth up - Hippo being OHKO'd by an unboosted Modest E-ball - I know you are wanting to kill them before Venusaur comes in, but losing that little bit of Power with the EV's you have on Venusaur isn't really all that much.
Also - if you want Venusaur to go all-out offensive, try using Sludge Bomb - With it you can hit D-nite and other Dragons and if you have rocks, hopefully OHKO them. It also lets you deal extra damage to Bulky Grass-types - Sludge Bomb is stronger than HP fire as is, but you also get STAB

The venusaur set I use is a little bit different to most, but I prefer it for it's ability to outspeed everything while still Shrugging off priority moves (namely BP and E-speed)

RageFace (Venusaur) (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 204 HP / 136 Def / 160 SAtk / 8 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

(yes, I used Black Sludge, yes, I know people think Lefties is better. No, I'm not a n00b - I understand the benefits and disadvantages, and quite frankly don't feel threatened by being Choice locked - Venu will most likely OHKO a trick user, and if I don't, they lose HP, I'm now faster than them (if they scarf me, if not, then I was always faster) and therefore can hit again for the KO - but otherwise they'd probably trick back to me expecting a switch - which doesn't happen :p)

but yeah, great team, well done

 

[JDFstar023]

Hello,

I have to say that a DD dragonite Completely destroys this team. He can set up on at least 3 of your pokemon.Also you don't have a Pokemon to fight other rain teams. A solution to these problems could be a shiftry. With his speed and coverage he can outspeed and ohko dragonite,salamence with hp ice. He can also beat Politoed and many other members of the classical rain teams used today.

You may not see this kind of shifry used in sun teams however,it would greatly help you strenghten your team.

Here is the set

Shiftry Life orb
Chlorophyll
Timid
252 spe 252 sp.att
HP Ice
Dark pulse
Giga drain
Nasty plot

This Shiftry set does have a bit of a lack coverage, however the "overpowered" Darmanitan covers it all.

Very true words, my friend. My way to deal with Dragonite currently is to either burn or paralyze it and wall it to death. Your Shiftry set is very intriguing - that HP Ice would be an amazing help to my team right now. Who do you suggest I replace? Venusaur?

 

[JDFstar023]

Hey. A few minor changes I would make.

If you don't want Fiery Dance on Volc, I would suggest you run Flamethrower over Heat Wave, since Flamethrower is a much more reliable move, and 90% accuracy can troll you at the worst times. Thanks to the sun boost, the 5 BP difference isn't too big of a deal.

Second, I don't really see the need for Future Sight on Cresselia. I would suggest giving Cresselia Ice Beam over Future Sight in order to handle some threats (like Dragonite, who dominates this team).

Energy Ball over Solarbeam. Less Base Power, but Solarbeam leaves Venusaur weak to A TON of threats. I would also suggest Sleep Powder over Toxic, since this team is going to be forcing a lot of switches. If you could explain what the EV spread does there too that would be great, since I don't see how that's functioning at all to be honest.

Last, give Darmanitan U-turn over Earthquake / Rock Slide. This helps you scout your opponent's switches

Cool team overall

Thanks for the rate.

You're essentially right about the HW vs. FT thing on Volc, I honestly don't know what that extra damage does for me.

Since making that change to Cresselia, I realized how pointless a Psychic move is on her, haha. I'll look at her move pool, but I can't think of a better option than Ice Beam.

The Energy Ball idea is pretty sound logic, but if the sun's not out then Venusaur's offensive capabilities are going to be severely hamstringed regardless. Still - good suggestion and I'll test it out.

 

[emirinho]

Yes Venusaur should be replaced by Shiftry because it is worth sacrficing venusaur's bulk for Shiftry's capabilites of sweeping.

 

[Zero Hour 17]

Thanks for the rate.

You're essentially right about the HW vs. FT thing on Volc, I honestly don't know what that extra damage does for me.

Since making that change to Cresselia, I realized how pointless a Psychic move is on her, haha. I'll look at her move pool, but I can't think of a better option than Ice Beam.

The Energy Ball idea is pretty sound logic, but if the sun's not out then Venusaur's offensive capabilities are going to be severely hamstringed regardless. Still - good suggestion and I'll test it out.

Remember though, if sun isn't out, Solar Beam is COMPLETELY useless. I've not tested it, but say sun is out and you hit solar beam, if they dry switch out into a scarfed politoed, would rain go up before the attack thus making you charge? If so then it could then KO you with ice beam.(Again I've never been in this situation) Either way, having a move that completely relies on a particular weather, in such a weather war stage like OU, isn't always the best choice.

 

[JDFstar023]

Le Bump! I made the suggest changes, are all working out very well for me. Also, I'd like some thoughts on my choice of Cloyster over Donphan. It's working great for me and I want to know what you guys think.

 

[MMF]

Hey nice team! I just have a couple of minor changes that I think will benefit you.

Alright first off give Ninetales Leftovers over Life Orb. Lefties gives you much more survivabilty which is really useful in winning weather wars and especially since Ninetales needs all the survivabilty it can get.

Next I would recommend using a more offensive Volcarona set over your current one. Under the sun Volcarona just becomes crazy strong. This set will give you much more immediate power and also breaks down other walls for Venusaur and vice-versa.

I would suggest using this set:
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Timid Nature
Evs: 252 Spatk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance/Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Ground


Now I suggest changing your Venusaur's Evs to 252 Spatk / 6 Def / 252 Spe. With your spread you are missing out on outspeed things like Scarf Terrakion and Latios. Late game that can be gamebreaking. It also gives him more starting power which I find to be invaluable on Growth Venusaur and with reflect from Cresselia even Scizor will have a hard time revenging you. Also Venusaur is pretty bulky even without investment.

And that's all I got! Hope it helps and good luck!

 

[JDFstar023]

Hey nice team! I just have a couple of minor changes that I think will benefit you.

Alright first off give Ninetales Leftovers over Life Orb. Lefties gives you much more survivabilty which is really useful in winning weather wars and especially since Ninetales needs all the survivabilty it can get.

Next I would recommend using a more offensive Volcarona set over your current one. Under the sun Volcarona just becomes crazy strong. This set will give you much more immediate power and also breaks down other walls for Venusaur and vice-versa.

I would suggest using this set:
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Timid Nature
Evs: 252 Spatk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance/Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Ground


Now I suggest changing your Venusaur's Evs to 252 Spatk / 6 Def / 252 Spe. With your spread you are missing out on outspeed things like Scarf Terrakion and Latios. Late game that can be gamebreaking. It also gives him more starting power which I find to be invaluable on Growth Venusaur and with reflect from Cresselia even Scizor will have a hard time revenging you. Also Venusaur is pretty bulky even without investment.

And that's all I got! Hope it helps and good luck!

Thanks for the rate! I tried your changes out and I think I'll keep Volcarona more bulky but use your Venusaur set from now on. I really appreciate the ease in which I can set up with Volcarona, without the invested ev's for bulk it becomes much more of a challenge.