Monotype Navigating Gen8 Psychic

[snarksnrek]

heyo! long time mono player/smogon lurker though I stepped away from meta for a bit during late gen 7/early gen 8 and am working on recreating a meta psychic team. It’s a bit rough around the edges and has been through several iterations thus far but still has relatively meh performance so figured I’d toss it out on an rmt to get some meta relevant advice.



Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch
- Healing Wish

Fairly standard scarfrachi; Iron Head helps break any type weak to Steel and is especially useful in outpacing and stopping Kyu-b/Darm-g who will otherwise rip most of the team apart. Flinch hax does flinch hax things and comes in clutch late game and breaking walls. U-turn + Steel type + decent natural bulk makes it a nice pivot, allowing it to function as a lead/scout as well as revenge killer. Thunder Punch is kind of random, originally had Fire Punch for the Steel matchup but Jirachi was essentially useless v Water so subbed that for Thunder Punch, but it doesn’t see much use/I’m not sold on it. This team does not have rocks (oof) and I’ve been tossing around the idea of subbing the third slot for rocks but that would leave rachi walled by Steel resists which isn’t ideal, particularly as I already am not great v Water/Fire. Healing Wish is very nice late game for match ups where rachi doesn’t shine but I need a little “extra use” from Victini/Lele/Latias (this cushion also allows me to use things a little more liberally to apply early game pressure as I can heal up later).



Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Scald
- Yawn
- Slack Off

Bulk. Psychic is lowkey frail (esp physically) and Regenerator + Teleport provides excellent utility checking physical mons and pivoting all while restoring health. Slack off is for healing without switching to keep Slowbro in against bigger threats. Scald/Yawn apply pressure giving Slowbro a slight offensive presence and acting as underlying status threats to physical attackers/set up sweepers. Yawn + Teleport particularly is a great defensive pivot that doesn’t sap the offensive momentum this team relies on and lets me get something in safely.



Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere

The third member of my core, Latias uses Dragon typing + natural bulk to check special attackers while also applying offensive pressure (and having the ability to be a wincon) with Calm Mind. Hard stops eleki and prior CM boosts let her stay in against Koko which makes Electric much more manageable. Also, this teams only way of dealing with (non-Bug Buzz) Volcarona; Bug Buzz variants ruin this team due to a lack of physical strength/Toxic and Bug Buzz being super-effective. Last two moves I like but am not sold on. Largely went with the two as they were the attacks of my old ORAS double dance wincon Mew but I’m unsure of it this gen. Steel is really good rn and Psychic (or at least my Psychic) hates it so Aura Sphere helps a lot there and Shadow Ball rounds out the coverage on aegi and makes the Ghost matchup easier if I can snag a CM or two. No STAB hurts though (particularly v Dragon) and often finds it hard to do meaningful neutral damage without boosts. EVs could probably be optimized a bit more; currently have them focused on survivability with enough speed to edge Garchomp although most I can really do to it is chip but Garchomp is a problem in general, so it helps.



Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Searing Shot
- Scorching Sands
- Substitute
- Glaciate

This set was shamelessly copied from the monotype creative sets thread and the more I use it the more I really enjoy it. Steel in particular makes traditional bandtini hard to run (rip) as it really needs the freedom to switch moves and I found Heatran in general hard to break (Medicham deserves gen 8) leading to me testing this. It puts in major work v Steel, able to hit all of the immunity core hard and threaten the rest of the team + scout a bit with sub. Took me a while to adjust to using this in non-Steel matchups but it has become pretty integral to the team, not only breaking steels on other types but also great utility with Substitute + Glaciate as a means to scout and add a touch of speed control as well as help v Flying/Dragon or just hit lando on the switch. The one downside here is a lack of power; base 100 special attack is nothing special and Scorching Sands + Glaciate are pretty weak too only really seeing use on 4x weaknesses or trying to nab a burn/speed drop on a switch. Switching Victini sets provides more utility and improves many hard matchups but the loss of banded V-create is very noticeable on this team.



Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Took me a while to settle on a good Lele set but I think scarf works best here; double scarf + Psychic Terrain provides solid speed control, especially considering the priority weakness without terrain. Psychic hits real hard in terrain and scarf Moonblast alone makes Dragon/Dark much more doable and with a bit of general chip/elimination of faster scarfers Lele can easily wipe through these teams. Focus Miss is great to tell myself I can damage Steel types while Shadow Ball helps a lot v Ghost. Ghost in general is hard (not me still missing Meloetta) but scarf Shadow Ball and mitigating Shadow Sneaks helps a lot.



Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball

Pretty normal zam. Magic Guard + sash makes it a great revenge killer, Psychic hits like a truck if terrain is up and still does hefty damage outside of it too. Dazzling Gleam is crucial for Dark/Dragon match ups (also useful v Drapion/Skuntank in a pinch to help break poison). Last two slots I’ve been playing around with a bit. Originally had Shadow Ball/Counter for the Ghost/Steel matchups + a nice pinch stop to physical mons (particularly in weather). Started using Energy Ball to help v Water/Ground, especially the fatter mons on those types. Originally replaced Shadow Ball for Energy Ball but found myself wanting a bit more use v Steel so I started using both balls and dropping Counter for the time being.





Things this team struggles with:

Bulky bois

The biggest thing this team struggles with is breaking bulky mons. Without a strong wallbreaker like specs Indeedee/bandtini it can take a lot of chip and maneuvering to wear stuff down so Lele/zam/rachi can kill it. On a similar note, the lack of hazards on this team makes it harder to chip things through the match as pivoting has a much cozier cost/benefit analysis for my opponent.



Garchomp

Garchomp is probably the biggest single mon nuisance I’ve encountered as it hits hard and Scale Shot allows it to outspeed my entire team and breaks zams sash. Part of this could be just me adjusting to the way Garchomp is played in gen 8 as I’ve definitely lost a few matches by guessing the wrong set. Things that outpace this team in general are a bit of a nuisance but the other two primary mons that do this (Zeroara and Dragapult) are more frail and can be played around more easily whereas a boosted garchomp/scarfchomp is very hard to stop.



Steel

I’ve mentioned it a lot through this, so you probably get the point but yeah Steel is a rough time. Victini makes it doable but it’s a mental game of baiting/prediction/guessing that suffers from being heavily reliant on one mon while the whole Steel core threatens my team.



Weather

While my double scarf + terrain speed control is usually pretty solid it is far outpaced by weather and most of this team does not like taking Excadrill’s Earthquake/Iron Heads or Rain boosted Water moves. Some pivots/weather stalling and offensive pressure to limit weather set up is useful but can’t always put in the work I’d like it too, largely due to my struggle to fit Energy Ball/Tbolts on this team. Sun is also a problem but not due to speed. Torkoal is the hardest weather setter for me to kill, Darm U-turns all over this, and Incineroar eats up Psychic moves, giving Fire lots of room to “fire off” (sorry) Sun boosted fire moves with Sun preventing Slowbro from doing meaningful damage. Definitely the matchup where I miss rocks the most.



Knock Off

Knock Off in general is hard for Psychic to switch into and this team feels that a lot. I was running Colbur Berry Slowbro for a while to basically act as a Knock Off absorber + handle Dark easier but I’ve settled on Leftovers atm to add extra healing in non-Dark matches as I’ve experienced a decreasing number of Dark teams for a bit. I think this is something I just have to live with/work around but thought I'd toss it out there in case there are better/other ways of dealing with it because choiced Knock Off can be a ~pain~

 

[roxie]

Major Changes

->

Slowbro is a nice defensive pivot and I'm going to suggest changing Leftovers -> HDB because this team has no removal whatsoever, which is "ok" considering Victini, Alakazam, and Latias to an extent is unaffected by hazards and hazard stacking is not very common in tournament play but adding this for more casual games is very good. Rocky Helmet is something that came to might for Dragonite and opposing Jirachis and physical attackers in general but its not as good as Heavy Duty Boots.


Thunder Punch -> Stealth Rock

Thunder Punch is kind of random, originally had Fire Punch for the Steel matchup but Jirachi was essentially useless v Water so subbed that for Thunder Punch, but it doesn’t see much use/I’m not sold on it. This team does not have rocks (oof) and I’ve been tossing around the idea of subbing the third slot for rocks but that would leave rachi walled by Steel resists which isn’t ideal, particularly as I already am not great v Water/Fire. Sun is also a problem but not due to speed. Torkoal is the hardest weather setter for me to kill, Darm U-turns all over this, and Incineroar eats up Psychic moves, giving Fire lots of room to “fire off” (sorry) Sun boosted fire moves with Sun preventing Slowbro from doing meaningful damage. Definitely the matchup where I miss rocks the most.

With these statements combined, you've stressed that the team struggles with Fire-types that tend to not run HDB such as Torkoal and Darmanitan and that provides a way for Jirachi to become useful in that matchup. Incineroar may eat up Psychic-type moves but it has no recovery because its running HDB of course, chipping it with neighboring teammates and using Latias as your wincon helps a lot. Some may suggest running Special Defense Jirachi, but outspeeding Galarian Darmanitan and Kyurem-Black at +1 is really good in this meta.

Steel
I’ve mentioned it a lot through this, so you probably get the point but yeah Steel is a rough time. Victini makes it doable but it’s a mental game of baiting/prediction/guessing that suffers from being heavily reliant on one mon while the whole Steel core threatens my team.

Victini alone may be kind of hard for Steel alone but the set is literally a steelkiller. Playing around with Choice Scarf Jirachi + Healing Wish to bring this back to 100% helps a lot in that matchup but an easy fix is changing Dazzling Gleam -> Focus Blast. Along with mentioning the very hard Volcarona matchup, Alakazam can help with Incineroar and Volcarona with Focus Blast and Psyshock, so changing Psychic -> Psyshock is an option but Psychic is still really nice for Poison. It all depends on how the team performs, I don't feel like Latias solos Fire but Colbur does do a lot but I do feel Poison struggles more with Latias which stresses the need for Psyshock more to help with Volcarona. Ground is also a thing that came to mind but playing around with Slowbro and Energy ball + Focus Blast Alakazam works.

Minor Changes


For the Dragon-type matchup, Choice Scarf Tapu Lele helps with threats likes Scale Shot Garchomps and Dragapult. Piovting and playing around with Slowbro is your best bet for Garchomp in my opinion; Scald + Slack Off + Teleport are pretty much glue and splashing stuff like Fire Blast, Thunder Wave, Grass Knot, Yawn, or Ice Beam in this case to support particular weaknesses can help a lot. Going to suggest changing Yawn -> Ice Beam to support this issue.


->
I don't think you specified what 64 SpA Latias was for and using it for this +1 64 SpA Latias Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 86-102 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO seems "ok" I am going to suggest changing Leftovers -> Colbur Berry to help with those Dark-type threats like Incineroar and Drapion along with changing Shadow Ball -> Psyshock. You've expressed that the team overall struggles with Volcarona due to Victini running the creative special set and I've noticed that the team may also struggle with Poison and its Psychic-type immunity Skun/Drapion so that stresses the need for Psychic-type STAB as compared to Ghost-type coverage (which can be used on Tapu Lele + Alakazam) instead. 0 Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Latias: 105-124 (28.8 - 34%) -- 2% chance to 3HKO. This set also helps with the Normal-type matchup with support from Jirachi.


Choice Specs Tapu Lele is a very good option for a breaker as you've stressed the need for. I do feel like Scarf is very much usable to help with threats like Garchomp and Dragapult but Ice Beam Slowbro helps a lot with those physical mons too. I feel like its optional but the lack of a wallbreaker is very much noticeable.


You can click on any of the sprites for the updated team and you can personally PM or mention me in the chat on roxiee on PS! or contact me via discord at Roxiee#7869. Feel free to join the Monotype discord for other point of views also and good luck with your team.

 

[mushamu]

I was toying around with this team for a while last night and I came up with this set which basically cheeses Electric teams completely. The rate I did doesn't represent standard sets, but I think it goes with your idea of a Calm Mind Latias team.

set

Latias (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 128 SpD / 76 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Stored Power
- Agility

52 Defense EVs with a Bold nature ensures you live any attack from Choice Band Zeraora after minimal chip, assuming you're getting one up against something like Rotom-W or Zapdos's Volt Switch. Weakness Policy means you can OHKO Zeraora after it tries to take you down with Knock Off or Play Rough and failing. It's also really nice taking random super effective attacks against offensive types in particular, as against types like Dragon or Water you may not have time to get up more than 1 Agility and no Calm Minds. Latias is quite bulky, and can punish things like Pelipper's U-turn, so it's a cool tech. Agility lets you outpace faster threats against weather based teams, and lets you outpace Tapu Koko, Regieleki and Zeraora against Electric. The Speed EVs outspeed Regieleki after an Agility, ensuring you don't get revenge killed by it. You can even Agility into Recover against Zeraora on the switch in order to get the Weakness Policy boosts and then outspeed it in a late game scenario. Due to the way Healing Wish works this generation, using it turn 1 and letting it come back to Latias later on is definitely viable. Ideally, you can bait Tapu Koko into Dazzling Gleaming Latias and win instantly, since Latias outpaces everything else bar Alolan Raichu and beats them with the Agility and Weakness Policy boosts. Alolan Raichu does outpace it, but any of Alolan Raichu's attacks will never beat Latias even after Tapu Koko uses Dazzling Gleam on it thanks to the Special Defense EVs. There's also a slower spread I was experimenting with that lives Latios's Draco Meteor from full and creeps Modest Kingdra, but is slightly worse against Electric due to not being able to outpace Regieleki after Agility.

The issue I found with the original set was that Zeraora took complete advantage of it, and +1 Shadow Ball or Aura Sphere allowed it in basically for free even with a Calm Mind boost, so this set punishes Zeraora (and the rest of Electric) a lot better. It's gimmicky and inconsistent in other matchups for sure, but it definitely works against Electric and some others like Psychic, Dragon, and Water. It's a set that requires a lot of team support to cover for other matchups.

calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Zeraora Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52+ Def Latias: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (obviously not Stealth Rock exactly since Stunfisk is awful but minimal chip like weak Volt Switches)

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Latias: 224-266 (61.5 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (70 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Latias in Electric Terrain: 60-71 (16.4 - 19.5%) -- possible 6HKO
73 + 20 < 100% = never 2HKOs
(Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam into Alolan Raichu's RIsing Voltage sequence)

252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Latias: 302-356 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Slower spread)

+2 0 SpA Latias Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zeraora: 393-463 (123.9 - 146%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 SpA Latias Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 411-484 (146.2 - 172.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(After 1 Agility and Weakness Policy triggering)

I made some other changes to the team, and this is the final paste. There is overlap with Roxiee's changes, but there are others like Alakazam and Jirachi that are different. I agree with how Slowbro should be Heavy Duty Boots, and I think Ice Beam on Slowbro, Psyshock on Alakazam, and Choice Specs Tapu Lele are a must. From my experience with this team, it does lack a lot of breaking potential against bulkier types like Water, Ground, and Flying, while you already have Jirachi as your speed control. Choice Specs Tapu Lele abuses those types extremely well especially without Victini being physical, taking advantage of Slowbro's Teleport which gives it a lot of opportunities to fire off attacks. You can even run Shadow Ball to have a way to hit Aegislash as well as beat the Psychic mirror a matchup where physical Victini would typically go nuts. Psyshock is way better on Alakazam because of Volcarona, after minimal chip you can beat it under Psychic Terrain while ignoring Quiver Dance boosts. Encore Alakazam locks Pokemon into setup, mainly Corviknight, as well as Aegislash into its attacks so you can cripple it with Thunder Wave. Thunder Wave also helps with speed control, considering Latias isn't Choice Scarf, Jirachi can be unreliable against Volcarona. I personally don't like Stealth Rock without a Knock Off user, so Trick is the better option over it on Jirachi. Trick helps a ton against opposing setup, which then helps Latias; for example, if you Trick a Celesteela, then Latias can 1v1 it. If you wanted to run Stealth Rock on Jirachi, you can run Knock Off on Alakazam, but since Heavy Duty Boots are so great and common, it's definitely hard to get milage out of Stealth Rock in many matchups without removing Heavy Duty Boots from Pokemon. Other than that, Blue Flare is way better than Searing Shot on Victini for the purpose of OHKOing Melmetal and punishing Celesteela harder, which are both really nice against Steel. Ice Beam on Slowbro does so much for a team without offensive Latias; punishing things like Landorus, Dragonite, and Zygarde-10%, and Garchomp which you said you struggled with. Last but not least, it also 2hkos Dragapult, which would otherwise use Dragon Dance to clean the team completely.

I tried to patch up your weaknesses with this changes too:

weaknesses

Bulky bois:
Choice Specs Tapu Lele being on the team means you can easily punch through many bulky Pokemon, as Psychic Terrain-boosted Psychic dismantles many and Thunderbolt paired with Focus Blast gives you coverage against Steel-type Pokemon as well as Slowking. Alakazam can also use Thunder Wave to try to make it more risky for those Pokemon to check Tapu Lele and other Pokemon like Victini.

Garchomp:
Ice Beam Slowbro being added to the team helps a ton against Garchomp and other Dragon-type Pokemon.

Steel:
Victini is about as good as it gets; however, Alakazam being able to spread Thunder Wave and encore Celesteela, Aegislash, and Corviknight helps a lot. The main Thunder Wave switchin, Excadrill, loses to Focus Blast. Trick Jirachi also makes it so that Celesteela and Aegislash can't scout and burn PP as much.

Weather:
Agility Latias gives you a win condition against rain Water and sun Fire. Luckily, Incineroar usage is decreasing, so Latias gets more leeway to break. Otherwise, Slowbro is your friend against basically every weather type. It resists all of Fire-type attacks in sun, Water-type attacks under rain, Ice-type attacks against Hail Ice, and takes Ground-type attacks extremely well against Ground, bar Landorus which it punishes with Ice Beam regardless. Choice Specs Tapu Lele being able to shit on 3/4 significant weather setters is amazing, forcing them out and denting anything they switch into.

Knock Off:
Unfortunately, if you're a Psychic team, you're going to hate Knock Off. However, you can still check Knock Off users offensively and even take advantage of Choice Band Knock Off Zeraora with Weakness Policy Latias.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1219643677
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1219648466
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1219646754

That's all, good luck on the team. I'll be on Decem on PS, Discord, and here if you have any questions. I really like the main idea of the team, which revolves around Calm Mind Latias to beat Electric.

 

[snarksnrek]

Thanks so much for the suggestions! Currently testing out different pieces from both of your tips but already am seeing really good use out of Ice Beam Slowbro/Blue Flare Victini and Specs Lele all patching up some of the major weaknesses of the team. Weakness Policy Latias is also just very fun to use with all the u-turns around but I've gotten good mileage out of Colbur too so will be working on solidifying Lati and a couple other Mondays. Again, thanks for the help!