Tournament NDBD I - Format Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
sealoo

sealoo

PaulGod
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Top Community Contributoris a Top Metagame Resource Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
National Dex Leader
blindaffff.png

​
Art by Runo, hosted by Concept & Murphy Lawden

Hello all, this is the formal announcement for the first edition of National Dex Blind Draft! For those who don't know how a blind draft works, here's an explanation I stole courtesy of LBN!
Like NDPL, NDBD is an auction based tour where managers will bid on players using a select amount of credits to get them for your team.

What separates this from other auction based tours is a “blind element.” Here, each time a player is nominated, managers cannot see the other bids placed by opposing managers for the player, rather they must “blindly” put up the value for the player they are willing to purchase without the pressure of upbids

After the allotted bidding period is up, the results will be shown, and whoever bids the highest value will be granted the player. In the event of a tie in credit values bid, whoever placed their bid first will get the player

With NDPL showing off OU, both SV and SS, along with all the other tiers, and NDWC comprised mainly of OU along with Doubles and Monotype, NDBD is in a bit of a strange spot in regards to format. Here is the format for the two aforementioned tours:

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SS OU
SS OU
SV UU
SV RU
SV Ubers
SV Monotype
SV Doubles OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SS OU
SS OU
SV Monotype
SV Doubles OU

Due to this, we would like to hear what you all think, with a particular focus on number of slots & the tiers to be played in those slots, along with other miscellaneous format things pertaining to topics such as self-buys, manager amounts, or whatever your heart desires. Rules against what is and isn't allowed is going to be pretty chill, but keep it somewhat feasible please (sorry, no SV ND MnM LC)!

Once this thread concludes, manager + player signups will go up shortly after. Setting a soft deadline for December 8th @ 11pm -5
 

Attachments

  • 1733113584793.png
    1733113584793.png
    417.2 KB · Views: 123
Last edited:
8 slots

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV UU
SV RU
Bo3 (OU, UU, RU)
SV OU Suspect

this would prob be my ideal format but dont care too much about other slots besides suspect, think w quite a few mons slated for tests in the future would be a good time to introduce the slot. fuck ss ou dont give it a slot kkkkkkkkkkkk
 
speaking as myself

Flex (in kDCA's post) is the best option for format overall, keeps the tour with a unique identity and I like 8 slots instead of 10

If no flex
-- Bo3 looks heat, would like to see that trialed
-- Suspect will be pretty solid for the upcoming potential suspects in the tier, even though I think the idea itself is kinda bad. Indifferent
-- I think NDM/NDDOU taking a back seat for this tour would hurt signups a bit, although they are already in both the other big tours. All OTs having 2 appearance in the 3 tours would be nice but its a hard decision to make

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV Doubles
SV Monotype
SV UU
SV RU
SV Ubers
Bo3 (OU, UU, RU)

SS OU is unnecessary atp, well represented in pl/wc; favor the other tiers more. Suspect slot sucksssssss
 
Last edited:
seth said:
8 slots

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV UU
SV RU
Bo3 (OU, UU, RU)
SV OU Suspect

this would prob be my ideal format but dont care too much about other slots besides suspect, think w quite a few mons slated for tests in the future would be a good time to introduce the slot. fuck ss ou dont give it a slot kkkkkkkkkkkk
Click to expand...
I think this is objectively the best format this tour has to offer

This is obviously a National Dex tour, OU is the main tier and the most popular so it makes sense it takes up a chunk of the format.

UU and RU aren’t very popular but have been an important part of big team tours like PL and WC. It is worth mentioning that tier shifts are bound to have a significant effect on the lower tiers, Melm falling to UU and Garg. This is a good opportunity to innovate and explore all the metas affected by the recent tera ban in OU.

Bo3 is blending all the tiers together which could be a pretty fun slot. I am not opposed to leaving this slot open because there is a lot of ND tiers people would like to see in team tours and this is a good opportunity to explore those options.

Suspect is obvious. I am not signing up unless we get this slot, there are a million things we are planning on testing. It just makes sense, let’s go!
 
Frankly why even have a suspect slot when you got a whole ass ladder to mess around with potential unbans in. Unless you are doing a single unban for the entire tournament I can't really understand the value that a week of private testing + maybe 3-4 real games will provide over 2 consistent weeks of suspect testing + the room tours that have already been conducted.

I have a vested stake in supporting NDOT sections so I'm not really gonna waste much energy talking about them outside of this quick piece unless I see something egregious: Ubers will be concluding their suspect test soon and if Tera is banned then they have far more of a reason to be included over anything else in terms of speeding up innovations. Otherwise the benefits of re-including NDOTs would be the fact that they are far more stabilized and explored compared to OU right now, so they can be attractive slots for managers if they are looking for consistency. UU and RU will join the "new metagame" party in January but it is my personal prediction that tier shifts won't be anything major (seems like we would just be gaining shitmons and Garganacl, which would need to be directly unbanned beforehand).

I would like to offer a take: The removal/reduction of SS OU from this tour. Great metagame yes but I think it would be cool to have an exclusively SV team tour, additionally I belive the SS pool will be worse with a bit of the talent quitting the tier (I think) and the lack of any real prize incentive to generate signups for the slot. For NDOTs I am confident enough in their abilities to produce at a minimum the 4 (8 for doubles since you still kinda need a secondary) needed quality signups for each team, irrelevant of a prize. Not super tapped into the potential SS pool so I can't say the same for them, but I'd be down to give them a slot if some names are confirmed to signup.
 
10 slots seems good, gives more formats time to be shown off. Not completely opposed to 8 though.

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SS OU
SV DOU
SV Monotype
SV UU
SV RU
SV Ubers
Bo3 (Something like OU, UU and RU like Sealoo suggested)

Can probably replace Mono or DOU for another OU like Suspect or even another SS slot. I think SV definitely should take center stage though because of Tera ban and this being the first chance for the Tera-less meta to have a big tour.
 
think 8 slots is good

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV UU
SV RU
SV UBERS
BO3 (SV, UU, RU)

I agree with the removal of the ss slot that Runo suggested, think bo3 is a very good choice to include. Not including mono because it’s had multiple chances in the spotlight already in certain mono tours like mompl and mwp, and I think the tour should be singles based only so no doubles. No suspect slot because I just don’t like that idea in general. I think there should be a dominance of sv slots because of the new meta and the tier’s revival as being actually fun to play and build in. Ubers / ru / UU are kinda just flex slots but I think those are the ones that are best as the ndots to include
 
Last edited:
The first thing to decide imo is whether this is an OU tournament or a National Dex tournament. If it is an OU tournament a smaller amount of slots is better. I don't have an objective reason to say it should be x number of slots. I'm not a part of the ND SV/SS OU community so it would be a waste to to say that there should be x slots with y SVOU and z SSOU as it would be based on vibes. If this is the direction the tournament ends up going call it NDOU blind draft because pretending to represent National Dex as a whole would be a farce.

As for the previous formats, I really did not like the NDWC format, and not just because NDUbers was dropped. Having every non OU tier have to fight for inclusion for just 2 spots is pretty shitty. As far as I can tell, there are not really any objective reasons for any tier to be included beyond being deemed worthy of a permanent ladder.

I also think a suspect slot is a pretty shitty idea. NDUbers was brought up due to potentially undergoing major changes in the coming days. The slot would likely hasten some meta development post tera. At the same time, we don't really need it. NDUbers can easily justify a slot (2 imo) regardless and we already have a ladder. I'm happy to see more NDUbers inclusion, but it isn't needed for this reason. I'd rather see a tier like SSUbers get a spotlight tbh.

I am firmly opposed to an OU suspect slot unless the tournament is exclusively OU. An OU suspect slot comes at the detriment to other tiers that would also heavily benefit from the spotlight compared to people who are bored with NDOU or just want to mess around / change things up for shits and giggles. NDOU already has a perm ladder, near constant 'official' tournaments, and a plethora of other tournaments throughout the year (rigged tourney for example).

It feels like every other tier has to constantly justify their inclusion due to concerns about 'diluting the pool'. If a suspect slot is this important the OU playerbase should have little issue replacing one of their slots for it rather than taking one that another tier could use. I think the NDPL format was pretty good and would propose adding a BO3 slot for 11 total. Most 'main' ND tiers were included while OU still comprised half the slots.

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SS OU
SS OU
SV UU
SV RU
SV Ubers
SV Monotype
SV Doubles OU
Grand Slam Bo3 (Ubers, UU, RU)
 
Last edited:
I think a lot of the third teamtours tiers have tend to generally play out like a temu version of their respective PL's/WC's, and it's a really silly idea to rush into this trying to do just that but with a "CG only" or "we have a bo3 now" flair (no flame to big bo3 though). ND finally has it's third teamtour, and it should not be one of the established tours with a different name, it needs to feel different as well to give it an identity. I think, especially given how varied the current suggestions are, the best course of action is flex slots:

SV
SV
[FLEX 1A]
[FLEX 2A]
[FLEX 3A]
[FLEX 1B]
[FLEX 2B]
[FLEX 3B]
Flex options: SV, SS, UU, RU, Ubers, Monotype, Doubles

NUCL recently implemented this, they have a description of it here for those unfamiliar.

I think flex scares people, but it should be welcomed. From a manager perspective, this would be the only format for this tour that I personally would be excited to draft for. It allows every manager to structure their actual team differently, creating a fresh match-up every single week of the tour with the tier pick, something greatly welcome given its proximity to NDPL and it's ability to keep the tour fresh and unique.

From a player perspective, this still allows those that are highly skilled in a singular tier to become a centerpiece in a teams draft plan, but also recognizing the value of flexible players who are skilled at multiple tiers more than a fixed format ever could, all while valuing SV most highly due to the guaranteed slots. Players can also get viable opportunities to play different tiers without being punished harshly like a fixed tour since the slots and what the optimal lineup is can change weekly, providing a way more engaging experience. Flex is the best way to give every tier proper representation without it being a poor attempt at a NDPL clone.

Concerns about not having enough flexibility with the players should be thrown out considering 10 slots/Bo3 is in discussion. The actual tiers for the flex option can of course be changed as the community needs and wants, but these are good. Obviously, just for reiteration, a team can't submit two or more of the same tier, but you and your opponent can submit the same tier and have 2 of the same tier in play in a given week.

Flex is definitely the best option with its incredible versatility, and I hope this does not get slow walked and can see implementation this edition.
 
We've opted to go ahead with this format for this year's NDBD:

SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDUU
SV NDRU
SV ND DOU
SV NDUBERS
SV NDMONO
BO3 (OU, UU, RU)

We feel 10 slots can be supported and should at least be tried this year to maximize the inclusivity of our tiers. Expect Manager signups soon!

Also our hosts for this year's NDBD are Concept and Murphy Lawden.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top