Tournament NDPL V - Format Discussion

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Hi everyone, with NDPL V coming up, I would like to open a discussion on the format of the tournament, particularly the tiers to be played.

Last year's tiers:
SV NatDex OU x3
SS NatDex OU x2
NatDex Monotype
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex Doubles
NatDex Ubers

Tiers from this year's World Cup:
NatDex OU x4
SS NatDex OU x2
NatDex Monotype
NatDex Doubles

Tiers to choose from:
SV NatDex OU
SS NatDex OU
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex DOU
NatDex Ubers
NatDex Monotype

Neither of these formats necessarily have to be used, and we're open to other suggestions as well. Please let us know your thoughts!
 
last year's format of:

SV NatDex OU x3
SS NatDex OU x2
NatDex Monotype
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex Doubles
NatDex Ubers

was perfect, dont see any reason to change it.

doubles was a super successful experiment last year especially and the meta has only gotten better tmk, should continue to be a staple for pl/wc in the future
 
Ngl outside of expanding the slots (massive maybe, being at ten slots is fine enough lol) is there any reason to change the format from last year?

From my understanding PL is meant to be inclusive to non-ou tiers to begin with and there shouldn't be any huge issues with finding players to fill said slots anyways.
 
Imo keep same format as last year, it was pretty great
Only negative point imo is x2 SS which I don't know what the general opinion about it is but after so many years of it being spammed, I would replace it with a new upcoming lower tier / OM that deserves a spot. I personally don't follow natdex tier lower tiers/OM but I saw many getting created recently although I can't tell if any of those is ready to have a spot in the tier's PL or has enough playerbase for it. Alternatively, also a BO3 slot or Suspect Slot could be considered although I personally usually am against those, but with the recent tiering actions it could be a great idea to have a suspect slot and test further things while meta also gets settled during the tour
 
SV NatDex OU x3
SS NatDex OU x2
NatDex Monotype
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex Doubles
NatDex Ubers

2 additional slots on top of the old format.

It seems like most people really like the old format so I’m not going to go against it and I find most of it agreeable. However, there’s some other tiers that should be open to consideration as well. The first is BO3. 3 chosen ND tiers played like OU, UU, RU or SV SS SV. Who is the most well rounded ND player? The next tier that should be considered is a suspect slot for tera. Meaning we have a playable tera-less NDOU meta. Tera has been a controversial component of generation 9 as a whole. We went through two very close ladder suspect test and it remained legal both times. For those who’re wondering what the meta would look like without Tera, it’s a great opportunity to take a peak at what could’ve been. I hope it will bring new insight into the dispute or at the least, some closure for good. By allowing this slot, we’d be able to choose 7 pokemon to drop as well, such as Regileki, Melmetal and even base form Terapagos because they were all banned completely due to tera.
 
I think last year's format is fine, and the only modification I would consider in agreement with the above posts is an OU suspect slot. Even then, that might be a stretch given that there isn't anything worth monitoring (at least, nothing publicly agreed on yet; if there's enough outcry for a specific Pokemon to be tested, then hosts can discuss and we can confer with the playerbase from there). I'm likely against a no Tera slot, though; this wouldn't lead to much with it already being tested twice and not much coming out of either (and tiering policy outright barring us from taking action, sadly), so including a metagame without the mechanic is wasted effort in my opinion.

Otherwise, this should be an okay format that should present the least amount of issues with finding players and creating an enjoyable experience, especially with the recent developments of lower tiers like RU and Doubles.
 
NDPL is a pretty active tour so the prospect of a suspect slot sounds more enjoyable here than in other tiers where I've seen it (SMPL) and brought up in ORASPL but I would still tread waters carefully before adding it in. The prospected level of activity or enjoyment that suspect slots have ends up not being very good compared to on paper and sometimes ends up leading to a lot of burnout for players and managers since Suspect slots add a whole new element to the tier compared to the rest of the CGOU being played. I would only add it if TLs/Council are 100% going to build off of it for tiering because it feels pretty useless if nothing comes out of it and a waste of time. I think last years format is fine but the only thing I would suggest would be axing one SS NDOU for another low tier if it has developed well. I haven't kept up with them to be honest mainly just OU but I think it could be worthwhile but this isn't to say SS NDOU is bad or anything, just seems the easiest tier to replace if another low tier wanted inclusion. But otherwise keep the same format as last year.
 
I am not opposed to continuing last years format as its just about perfectly formatted, however something I'dlike to bring up is that expanding the slots to 12 would not be a terrible idea and would give an opportunity to a lot of the lesser known players to prove themselves in this tournament which is always a benefit to the future of the tier. i'd love to see some of our newer mainers who don't have a massive history of tournament success yet get the chance to prove themselves in a tournament like this rather than just having the usual crowd and whatever button clickers are looking for an extra custom avatar. Not sure what tiers would be added but some cool options I would recommend are teraless sv ndou, gen8 ndag, ndubers doubles, suspect sv ndou, an extra sv slot since its very popular compared to the other tiers and last but not least a BO3 slot of SV ND, SS ND and smou (dont lie to yourselves smou is basically gen7 natdex and what all our mainline tiers are derived from having the combination of megas and z moves) which would reward the long term nd players who have been around since day one.

I don't think this will be a very popular opinion but I think we definitely will have the signup numbers to support a competitive 12 slot format especially since I've seen how many high quality players end up not making the cut due to lack of recognition or tournament history in previous variations of this tournament and expanding the ammount of players will only be a positive benefit to our community in the long run giving the up and coming players a shot at team tour level play.
 
sasha said:
NDPL is a pretty active tour so the prospect of a suspect slot sounds more enjoyable here than in other tiers where I've seen it (SMPL) and brought up in ORASPL but I would still tread waters carefully before adding it in. The prospected level of activity or enjoyment that suspect slots have ends up not being very good compared to on paper and sometimes ends up leading to a lot of burnout for players and managers since Suspect slots add a whole new element to the tier compared to the rest of the CGOU being played. I would only add it if TLs/Council are 100% going to build off of it for tiering because it feels pretty useless if nothing comes out of it and a waste of time. I think last years format is fine but the only thing I would suggest would be axing one SS NDOU for another low tier if it has developed well. I haven't kept up with them to be honest mainly just OU but I think it could be worthwhile but this isn't to say SS NDOU is bad or anything, just seems the easiest tier to replace if another low tier wanted inclusion. But otherwise keep the same format as last year.
Click to expand...
ok




keep same
 
Oculars said:
I am not opposed to continuing last years format as its just about perfectly formatted, however something I'dlike to bring up is that expanding the slots to 12 would not be a terrible idea and would give an opportunity to a lot of the lesser known players to prove themselves in this tournament which is always a benefit to the future of the tier. i'd love to see some of our newer mainers who don't have a massive history of tournament success yet get the chance to prove themselves in a tournament like this rather than just having the usual crowd and whatever button clickers are looking for an extra custom avatar. Not sure what tiers would be added but some cool options I would recommend are teraless sv ndou, gen8 ndag, ndubers doubles, suspect sv ndou, an extra sv slot since its very popular compared to the other tiers and last but not least a BO3 slot of SV ND, SS ND and smou (dont lie to yourselves smou is basically gen7 natdex and what all our mainline tiers are derived from having the combination of megas and z moves) which would reward the long term nd players who have been around since day one.

I don't think this will be a very popular opinion but I think we definitely will have the signup numbers to support a competitive 12 slot format especially since I've seen how many high quality players end up not making the cut due to lack of recognition or tournament history in previous variations of this tournament and expanding the ammount of players will only be a positive benefit to our community in the long run giving the up and coming players a shot at team tour level play.
Click to expand...
I agree pretty much with everything here. Signups shouldn’t be an issue at all if we add 12 slots. Sasha and Sulo raised good counter points that nothing can be done anyways (due to stupid self-imposed restrictions even if the community might have changed views since the last tera suspect). A tera-less slot instead of a suspect slot could solve these issues, by not adding any mons back and simply playing without tera could be fun. Overall it’s less stressful, less chance of burnout since you don’t have to account for new Pokemon in the tier. The community seems to be majorly against the idea even though many are pro-ban. Maybe it’s something that can be done outside of PL, other than that the format looks concrete for 10 slots.
 
Been trying to figure out how to express this without it sounding like me shouting into the void, so I'll instead give up and shout it into the void. If the decision to expand it to 12 slots is made (which, support! the more the merrier), consider a second ND DOU slot, maybe! DOU is a fun format that always is fun to watch, and teams should be already drafting more than one doubles-knowledgeable player to ensure support/tests/building - adding a second slot I think would improve the tour if slots are already being expanded.
 
Don’t necessarily agree with 12 slots, although I don’t mind a suspect slot I think getting people to agree on the slot and care abt the format will be a problem. Also generally believe that a 15 man minimum might be a bit overambitious for what we have rn, keeping the same tiers should work.

Also wanted to throw in the idea of retains, now that the tour is in it’s 5th anniversary it seems now is a good as ever time to introduce them, esp since next yr will be closing in on a new gen. In this tier especially, adding retains helps reward future managers w talent recognition given how easily new players r able to pick up sv natdex in particular and score good results.
 
Agree with all of the suggestions except replacing ubers with a suspect slot. I don't see why ubers, which is a very popular tier, should be replaced with a fourth ndsvou slot. A suspect slot is interesting if people want it, but why should it come at the cost of ubers? Ubers already wasn't in NDWC and reading through that thread I'm not really sure why. SV Ubers was in standard WCOP.

NDUbers has the playerbase to support a slot, even two. I'm not so sure any tier other than SVNDOU really deserves multiples slots as I'm sure multiple tiers could reasonably argue that they deserve two slots akin to SSNDOU. I'm not a part of the SSNDOU community, but I'm assuming that it has to be quite active beyond forum activity? The teambuilding competition project seems active, but beyond that the forum is completely dead. There is a money tour and the meta discussion thread has 5 posts, the last of which was May 15th. There is the announcement post, Bacon doing a teamdump claiming that they're the only person that builds, a post announcing a ladder, a VR update, a personal VR, and someone stanning Tangela.

Using last years format is fine, but the second SSNDOU slot really seems like it could go to another tier if they have the playerbase to support it or a second suspect slot. NDUbers definitely could support a second slot amongst people who play the tier and Ubers/other tier mainers who enjoy it (this seems to be the case as Eledyr seems to be the only NDPL IV Player who has had any involvment with the tier since. I don't think finding 16 quality NDUbers players would be a problem. As NDUbers is the tier I play, I'm a bit biased and this could apply to other tiers as well.

Last years format seems fine, but I really don't see good reason for a SVNDOU suspect to take the place of another tier. SVNDOU is already a very active tier that will have the most slots in any team tournament and I don't see it needs a suspect slot at the cost of other tiers getting representation, especially given how slots were distributed in NDWC. If another tier that doesn't get a frequent spotlight for high level play wants a suspect slot they deserve that spotlight more than SVNDOU imo.

Don't have an issue with adding a slot or two as I don't think NDUbers would be diluted in quality, with Adem signing up that ship has already sailed /s. I can't speak on other tiers. NDUbers can definitely find 16 players of high enough quality.

SV NatDex OU
SV NatDex OU
SV NatDex OU or SV NatDex OU Suspect Slot
SS NatDex OU
NatDex Monotype
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex Doubles
NatDex Uber
A second slot for one of the other tiers or a suspect slot or NDNU/PU if they are developed enough / have the playerbase

Edit: SSNDUU could go in that last slot as well
 
Last edited:
I had this pre-typed I hate you chrispbacon for posting it before me

I meant to add this in my original post (and fwiw I don't know if this should go in this thread or not), but I think NDPL has been a pretty good tour for a few good years now and it would be cool to see retains. Not this year for sure, but I think the idea would be cool. I've been watching ND grow since NDPL 1 and it would be awesome to see the tournament establish more of an identity for itself and have returning franchises / managers to build more hype for the tour. Again, I definitely don't think it should be this year because there should probably be better notice / more discussion about it internally before adding it into PL but something to bring up because I think it would be a cool direction to go.

12 slots is also gonna dilute the playing pool by a fair amount I do not think its worth it
 
ok im ngl i wasnt really gonna post but at risk of some of the ideas stated itt being taken more seriously i'm gnna briefly speak out:

we should not have 12 slots. 10 was more than ideal last year and allowed for healthy expansion without a large sacrifice in quality, and none of the other tiers not in PL already have the proper foundations yet to avoid it from being a disney mickey mouse crapshoot (sorry).

we should not have a suspect slot in a tier that is actively being tiered. leave this for the oldgens that want to mess around a little. this tournament should not be a device for tiering, please leave that to an actual tiering council rather then trying a competitive balancing act by creating a theory slot

we should never cut 2nd ss. ss is a fan favorite and has more history and development then any other nd tier on top of being widely considered the most balanced. omg PLS do not cut this for some random ass tier LOL just keep 2 slots of the good tier

tl;dr: Keep the format the same and don't change what isn't broken for no reason

also for retains idrc sure but just make sure that they start next year. starting retains this year would be very nonsense
 
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