Needs more Bellyzard (RMT)

Lusantian

Edits in bold.

This team, as you may have guessed, revolves around Belly Drum Charizard. Personally, I think it's one of the more underrated Pokemon around, besides being just plain fun to use. So, without further ado:

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Zephyr (Jumpluff) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 136 HP/120 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Encore
- Sleep Powder
- Sunny Day
- Memento

Jumpluff is an absolutely under-appreciated lead. Focus Sash allows me to survive a hit and Sunny Day Turn 1, making me faster than just about anything. Then Encore or Sleep Powder as appropriate. Added Memento over U-Turn as suggested, giving Bellyzard another shot at setting up.


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Apocalypse (Charizard) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Substitute

The core of the team, obviously. Standard Bellyzard; switch in, sub, drum, and sweep. HP stat is now odd, allowing for survival if I'm forced into switching in with Stealth Rock or Sandstorm in play.

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xD (Wobbuffet) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Bold nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Safeguard
- Encore

Ah, the much-maligned Wobbuffet. Takes hits like no other, and provides invaluable setup with Encore. Replaced the now-banned Tickle with Safeguard, and changed nature to Calm to absorb and Mirror Coat Shadow Balls from Gengar better.

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Artemis (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP/76 Def/56 SpA/136 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Thunder
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Jirachi is here for Wish support mainly. None of my team has any recovery, and keeping Zard healthy is essential. Stealth Rock is there to prevent Sashers from ruining my sweep, and U-Turn complements Wish. Replaced Zen Headbutt with Thunder to prevent TauntDDGyara from walking all over my team. Changed nature and EVs, but I suck at EVing so any help would be appreciated.

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Kraken (Tentacruel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 204 HP / 96 SpA / 172 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Replaced Starmie with Tentacruel per suggestion, retaining Spin support with the ability to hamper bulky waters with Toxic Spikes.

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Ladon (Garchomp) (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance

Standard SDYache Chomp. Functions as a backup sweeper in case something goes wrong with the Bellyzard sweep, but has contributed to his fair share of wins (Encoring an Electric attack aimed at Jumpluff and then going to Chomp is always fun).
 
Don't have time for a full rate at the moment, but your logic is flawed for using Toxic on Starmie--Blissey is pretty much the one poke Wobbuffet loves to trap and kill the most, and that is what you should be doing most of the time. Definitely put Ice Beam over Toxic in this case.

You also might consider an odd HP stat on zard--your going to struggle to remove sand and rocks most of the time, and so if you can remove one or the other, Charizard can still set up. With Sandstorm up, he will still activate with the normal one sub+drum--note that he will probably only get 3 turns to rampage. With rocks up (which is likely if starmie gets pursuited) you can give him a free turn with wobb to just switch in and belly drum down to 1 hp. When neither are a factor, you just needs two subs and a drum to get down to 1 hp and activate salac, etc.
 
Dormin said:
Don't have time for a full rate at the moment, but your logic is flawed for using Toxic on Starmie--Blissey is pretty much the one poke Wobbuffet loves to trap and kill the most, and that is what you should be doing most of the time. Definitely put Ice Beam over Toxic in this case.

You also might consider an odd HP stat on zard--your going to struggle to remove sand and rocks most of the time, and so if you can remove one or the other, Charizard can still set up. With Sandstorm up, he will still activate with the normal one sub+drum--note that he will probably only get 3 turns to rampage. With rocks up (which is likely if starmie gets pursuited) you can give him a free turn with wobb to just switch in and belly drum down to 1 hp. When neither are a factor, you just needs two subs and a drum to get down to 1 hp and activate salac, etc.
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Odd HP logic sounds good, I'll give it a try. However, I'm rather adamant on leaving Toxic on Starmie. It has been the deciding factor in several battles, taking care of random stallish stuff like Cresselia (w/o Rest, obviously) Dusknoir, and Tangrowth.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I played you in Shoddy? I'm just going by this because the lead pokemon was a Jumpfluff named Zephyr and I don't think that is quite common haha.

Anyways, if you feel like replacing Starmie, why not try a Vaporeon? Ice Beam would be needed however. You could try a Vappy with Wish, Surf, Ice Beam, and if necessary Toxic instead of HP electric which is so common among Vaporeons.
 
Gators1 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I played you in Shoddy? I'm just going by this because the lead pokemon was a Jumpfluff named Zephyr and I don't think that is quite common haha.

Anyways, if you feel like replacing Starmie, why not try a Vaporeon? Ice Beam would be needed however. You could try a Vappy with Wish, Surf, Ice Beam, and if necessary Toxic instead of HP electric which is so common among Vaporeons.
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I don't remember you, but I'm horrible with names so it's quite possible ;)

I'm not going to be replacing Starmie with anything else than another spinner, seeing as that's currently its primary purpose. Vappy over Jirachi might be something to think about, but I'd have to slap SR on something else (maybe Donphan over Mie?), as it's rather crucial in preventing those nasty Sashers from killing Zard.

To elaborate more on the Toxic point, I don't like being dependent on Wobb alone to take out walls. I don't know, it's just been so incredibly helpful that I'm reluctant to remove it.
 
if you want to replace starmie with another spinner, you could try tentacruel. he's pretty bulky, and can support your team with both toxic spikes and rapid spin.
 
I would like to concur with the previous statement. Entry hazards, especially toxic spikes and stealth rock, really help your goal of sweeping with Bellyzard. As all well know, Bulky waters are the main counters to bellyzard. Toxic spikes really helps wear down Suicune and Swampert, and Stealth Rocks will prevent intimidaters like Gyarados and Salamence from ruining your parade (from my reckoning Bellyzard's Fire Punch still OHKOs both after an intimidate if rocks are up).
 
ok everything looks all fine and dandy and all the good comments have been made but why has no one said anything about momento yet?

Seriously Momento over Uturn would benefit you so much more.

1. automatically gets you out of there
2. drops your opponents stats so bad they are pretty much forced to switch while you sub/belly drum with zard
3. if they dont switch thats just better for you because zard pretty much will sweep from there.

Otherwise I love how many openings this team has. The only other thing I could think to suggest is another encorer like encore raichu but he might mess up the central strategy. cool team though.
 
Replaced Mie with Tentacruel; the more I think about Toxic Spikes the more I like. I basically stole it from the analysis, so tell me if anything needs fixing :P I decided for Liquid Ooze to screw Leech Seed users over, but would Clear Body be better?

Oh, and Memento is actually one of the first things I tried in that slot. I found that it's not as useful as it seems though; it would be so much better if it dropped all stats instead of just Atk/SAtk. I've actually had him come in and be useful after he had gotten out the first time, which he obviously can't do if he's been pseudo-exploded.
 
Liquid Ooze is much better as it gives you a perfect counter to breloom and celebi.

On the momento thing, Jumpluff does have its uses with uturn, but when hes not subseeding the only thing I see him really actually doing is sleeping them again if they do wake up or putting up an unneeded sunny day. If this team wants as many chances as possible to sweep big with charizard, momentum would be your best bet.
 
Yeah, you best add Thunderbolt on Jirachi or add someone that doesn't get buttfucked by Gyarados. The simplest, oldest quite possibly most used set of all time, can simply Taunt and DD it's way to victory. Perhaps it's time to add back Starmie??
 
Yikes, I hadn't even noticed the massive DDGyara weak. I'm really liking Tenta, so should Jirachi's set look something like Wish / U-Turn / Thunder(bolt) / Strealth Rock? I NEED SR somewhere on this team to stop sashers.

[edit] If I go with the above moveset, should I go with a Bold nature and dump the Atk EVs into SAtk?
 
Replaced Zen Headbutt with Thunder. Changed nature and EVs to guarantee the OHKO with Thunder using the standard Bulkydos EVs, but I suck at EVing so any help would be appreciated. I took the extra EVs out of Speed, which I'm not sure is a good idea, but I'm not sure dropping HP or Def would be any better.
 
*headdesk*

Of course, Stealth Rock. In that case, I'll just move the Atk EVs from the analysis to SpA. According to damage calcs, Thunder should still have a good chance (~77%) to OHKO regardless of whether SR's up. Or would it be better to drop SpA EVs altogether and dump them into Def or something? This is my first attempt at coming up with an original EV spread, and it's showing :P
 
Looking at it again.....an opposing Garchomp really hurts the team. Once it gets an SD, your best hope is to Sleep Powder it (not likely, as I assume you lead with that move), speed tie with your Garchomp, or memento....which will still give Garchomp neutral atk and let it come in again to wreak havoc.

Kind of second guessing that replacement of Starmie for Tentacruel, but even then that only protects you against non-yachechomp, which seems to be the only kind nowadays. Its a quandary, and you might consider something like Cresslia over Jirachi and maybe Jolteon over Jumpluff...Cresslia could then Sunny Day/Ice Beam Garchomp/Charge Beam Gyarados/set up Reflect (not all on the same set ;D), and then Jolteon could add that revenge killer aspect to the team.

I think its all stuff to try at least.
 
One thing to consider in Jumpluff, apart from being a fantastic set-up for your Bellyzard, is it's surprising capability as a Garchomp counter.
Jirachi and Tentacruel are going to frequently provoke Garchomp's STAB Earthquakes, which are easily Encored. Similarily, you can predict and Encore Garchomp's Swords Dance, especially if it's flagged by a Substitute.
 
Ahhhh, interesting idea--I was more commenting on the fact that actually killing it might be tough, and Jumpluff is admittedly fragile to survive the whole match. Also you will probably be relying on Wobbuffet to take out Mamoswine to spare Charizard damage--not a good thing. Unfortunately, this is another reason it might be better to have Starmie, or ev Tentacruel to outspeed =(
 
Yeah, Chomp is an interesting opponent for this team. SD variants get Encored and set up on, but can always run away to screw with me later. Scarf versions are really scary, as I've no reliable Dragon resist (in retrospect, maybe Jirachi Thunder wasn't so hot an idea), and I have to outpredict or die. I suppose there's always Wobb to fall back on... Cress is an interesting idea, but provides neither Spin nor Wish support, both of which I'm loathe to give up (unfortunately, nothing bar Smeargle leans both).

Funny thing about Mamoswine is, I did the calculations, and the 36 Speed EVs Tenta has allow it to outspeed standard analysis Mamoswine (244 Spd) by one point. Unfortunately, Surf comes nowhere near OHKO range, and I'm not sure I should invest the EVs to bump it up. *calculates* Actually, max SpA Calm Tentacruel using Surf against 64 HP Mamo doesn't even guarantee the OHKO, so that's out. The good thing is, if it's locked into CB EQ, it becomes set-up bait for Zard.
 
Yeah that is true, though I haven't seen a Mamoswine recently that wasn't nearly max speed and packing a Life Orb. I personally think the analysis is outdated, but my experiences may differ from yours.

In addition to the odd HP on Charizard, I'm also kind of dumb and use Jolly Bellyzard on my Zard team lol. With Jolly, you reach 492 speed after the Salac, which is enough to beat Scarfchomp, Modest Scarfgar, and most Deoxys. I personally think Jolly+odd HP is the best for D/P, though the priority on getting Stealth Rocks and Toxic Spikes out increases dramatically. If you can get Stealth Rock and at least 1 layer of T-spikes, the only way the opponent is stopping a Jolly Bellyzard is priority/Timid Scarfgar (pretty sure). Just food for thought, and realize the power loss from Adamant to Jolly is rather significant to stop just Gengar, Garchomp, and Deoxys, but all three are very common.
 
If you can get the Toxic Spikes up and running, Encore jumpluff should be able to hold off Chomp, at least until it's in KO range from something. Perhaps you would like to put a priority move on someone to help with revenge kills?
 
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