New to 5th Gen Looking for Help

jaredz99

Hiya, while running through Pokemon White on DS i took a hiatus from competitive battling and am a bit out of touch with the 5th gen pokemon, however I'm diving in with this team that is doing alright but definitely could improve a lot. I decided to resurrect my favorite hail stall theme (groans) but found that there were many new toys for a stall team to play with - and I'm liking a lot of them. Anyway, here goes.

Don't know if an importable is still needed but here it is.
Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain

Hitmontop (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Stone Edge

Sigilyph (M) @ Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Psycho Shift
- Roost

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Hardy Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Moltres @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Substitute
- Toxic

Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Taunt

abomasnow.png

Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
I'm playing Dream World so without the whole team preview thing, so Abomasnow is always my lead (I'll have to figure out switches when/if I move to wifi). Obviously it starts up the hail, but I want to get something useful out of this frosty tree other than just a weather effect. This is relatively generic, substitute helps to stall while leech seed provides effective recovery, Blizzard is STAB with 100% accuracy. Giga Drain is a change from 4th gen where I ran Protect or Focus Punch but it is working out as a stronger attack against things like bulky waters and even more healing for Abomasnow.

ani237.gif

Hitmontop (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Stone Edge
This here is my spinner. I like Hitmontop in 5th gen, with Sucker Punch to hurt things like that annoying chandelier, mach punch as a STAB priority and Stone Edge to put a dent in fliers. He's able to get in and spin several times if necessary, which is good because Moltres, Abomasnow and Sigilyph really don't like SR and nobody likes spikes or toxic spikes.

598_Ferrothorn.png

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Hardy Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
Well, any true stall team needs entry hazards, but after putting in all of my fun new 5th gen toys and reliable old hail stall buddies I found myself with only one slot left for a spiker/TSer/SRer(?). I tried that huge lump of poison trash, which wasn't all that useful. I've been pointed to Ferrothorn, who I know is a 5th gen staple and great spiker. This guy has been pretty solid, providing spikes and leech seed for residual damage along with underrated dual STABs in Gyro Ball and Power Whip. However another 4x Fire weakness is hardly ideal, so if anybody has ideas for a better hazard-setter that maybe has better team synergy please let me know.

200px-561Sigilyph.png

Sigilyph (M) @ Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Psycho Shift
- Roost
Ah, Sigilyph. A real bitch in-game so I decided to take a look-see at what he could do in the competitive arena. Perhaps an under-the-radar Magic Guard user as opposed to that psychic teddy bear, Sigilyph has been rock solid and actually "swept" (although most sweeps don't take about 35 turns) several teams. Cosmic Power makes a decently bulky pokemon extraordinarily difficult to take down, while at the same time massively boosting the power of Stored Power (20 BP, +20 for every stat boost, so 260 BP STAB after 6 Cosmic Powers). Psycho Shift allows me to spread burns throughout opposing teams, very useful. Roost provides a reliable source of healing. Knowing when to get this guy in is the only really tough part - after 2 Cosmic Powers, barring a lucky crit, getting up to 6 is almost given and then wearing opponents down through a combination of burn damage, hail damage and a 260 BP Stored Power is quite effective. I anticipate problems with the auto-crit Ice-type move (Frost Breath maybe?) as it is super-effective and ignores my stat boosts - however being somewhat new I don't know if that's being used often or on what pokemon.

moltres_display.png

Moltres @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Substitute
- Toxic
Moltres, an old favorite. Puts a hard stop to any sun teams hoping to shut down my groove as well as PP stalling or toxic stalling many main threats. Pretty self-explanatory, Sub-Roost to last longer, toxic is even more useful because I currently don't have TS anywhere on my team, and flamethrower provides a reliable STAB. Moltres is also my go-to switch to lead Genesect, as he takes a T-Bolt with about 40 HP left and OHKOs with flamethrower - however a crippled Moltres is never ideal.

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Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Taunt
Perhaps the new 5th gen toy I was most excited for and he did not fail to disappoint. I've had several fun experiences with this guy, such as knocking off a Snorlax's Chesto Berry, taunting so it couldn't rest, WoWing, and then recovering until it died. Recover, WoW and Taunt are all wonderful moves that normally wouldn't all make it onto a set if it weren't for Prankster - and with good prediction I have been able to shut down and maim/kill several pokemon in a match with this Sableye. Also is my stallbreaker, putting a hard stop to many opponents through taunting, knocking off leftovers/eviolites, and WoWing for extra residual damage. Lastly he fills the role of a spinblocker and a decent counter to boosting attackers like Haxorus with WoW and Taunt.

Biggest problems:
Chandelure is a problem (I suppose for everybody) but not impossible. This is one of the reasons I don't like 2 pokes with a 4x fire weakness. Obviously try to hit it before dying and then I generally switch to Hitmontop as it usually can OHKO with sucker punch, however there aren't really any reliable counters otherwise. Moltres shrugs off overheat and can take a shadow ball while using Toxic, which limits Chandelure's utility.

(will update as more come up)

Any rates are appreciated, thanks in advance!
 
Hey, got your PM. A few suggestions:

You'll want Abomasnow to be a bit bulky, and with Electric / Water / Grass resists and an Ice neutrality, SpD is the way to go. You can keep your set, but I'd recommend a spread of Calm; 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD.

Ferrothorn resists A TON of things, and is good for the team in general, but you should change its nature to Relaxed and go with Shed Shell over Rugged Helmet to help you with Chandelure and provide some more physical defense. It also helps you escape from Magnezone, which is important as it is your only answer to Starmie.

Anyway, if you want a stall team, you'll need more hazards and probably a phazer, for which I suggest these:

Latias over Sigilyph. She can use Refresh to help herself with status, still sports recovery, and is capable of setting up to be a nice win condition. She also provides you with some speed despite this being a stall team:

Latias@Leftovers
Timid; 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Calm Mind
Recover
Refresh / Roar
Dragon Pulse

Second, go with Heatran over Moltres. It has great bulk, is capable of absorbing Fire and Dragon assaults, turns the tables on sun teams, and can use Stealth Rock.

Heatran@Leftovers
Calm; 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

Stealth Rock
Flamethrower
Substitute / Roar
Toxic

Note that I've slashed Roar on both Heatran or Latias; the choice is up to you. If you want Heatran to work as more of a staller, Roar can be used on Latias (which also helps with Reuniclus, a huge threat to stall). However, Latias then loses the ability to Refresh and clear itself of status. The choice is up to you.

Finally, go with Jellicent over Sableye, who does little for this team and dies easily to Special attacks. Jellicent still has recover, has great synergy with Heatran and Ferrothorn, and provides you with a decent spinblocker.

Jellicent@Leftovers
Bold; 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe

Scald
Recover
Will-o-wisp
Taunt

Here's your set. You outrun everything up to minimum speed Scizor, allowing you to use WoW or Taunt more effectively.

These changes will help you out, hopefully. You have weather covered decently, hazards, a phazer, a spinblocker, and plenty of resistances. Hope this helps!
 
Looks good, thanks for the help. Just clarification - no balloon on Heatran, and is there any possibility to throw in a second attack for better coverage on Latias, or would that not fit as well with a stall mindset?
Relaxed on Ferrothorn was a total brain-hiccup, thanks for noticing that. On Ferrothorn, I understand the reasoning for shed shell but I'm not too excited about running an item without any benefits other than running from trappers - I'll test it but if I'm going to choose a different item would you go with Rocky Helmet or Leftovers?
 
With Heatran backing you up, you don't really need additional coverage on Latias; Recover and Roar/Refresh are far more beneficial to the set's nature.

Speaking of Heatran, you could run balloon, but that is more suited to offensive sets. Leftovers are preferable to the version I recommended.

If Shed Shell is not your cup of tea, I would definitely recommend Leftovers. Between hazards, hail, and Iron Barbs, any pokemon making physical contact will have considerable passive damage already, making the Rocky Helmet redundant. Ferrothorn will appreciate Leftovers cancelling out hail damage.

You may want to consider them on Hitmontop as well, as it doesn't really get stellar coverage and its primary purpose is to stick around and Rapid Spin as necessary. If you find spinning against other stall tough, you could replace Sucker Punch with Foresight as well, but I doubt you'll need that.
 
I agree with most of what Icyman said. You may want to test out shed shell, but for the most part, leftovers and rocky helmet are a better option. Have max Special Defense on your Ferrothorn. Physical Defense really doesn't help you in any way, and this just weakens you to all other Special Attacks. Yes, it does look good to spread them across the board (your EVs, that is), but really, you don't get any significant survivals out of it at all.


You should have leftovers on hitmontop, to further its walling/stalling capabilities. Otherwise, if it's working good, with good synergy, you probably won't want to change it. Maybe think about putting more defense and a little sp. def investments into it, and less attack, but you can keep it.


With Sigilyph, it isn't bad, and due to it not having to be affected by status' it has its pros and cons for sure. I recommend using a CM lati@s (latios or latias). The set recommendations that Icy posted above is the standard CM set, because it works. This helps you with status', usually poison, as well as, being able to wreck shop with dragon pulse after a few CM's. Although, once someone sees that you are a CM set, they will switch in their Reuniclus (if they have one) and begin to CM psycho shift (once again, if they have it). They will win the stall war, then proceed to sweep. I recommend -if you use lati@s- then put on psycho shift. If not, then maybe think about using Reuniclus yourself. With you using a stall team, you should use a CM set again, so to stall down the opponent in hail. But, a Trickroom set isn't bad either. This won't be too expected as well, due to you running (otherwise on your team) a full stall team. This poke may be what makes or breaks your team, so to speak.

I also agree with Icy in the fact that balloon heatran would be effective with your team. It will cover for your lati@s weakness (if you so choose that path), as well as, having a nice Fire-type core poke. This can be switched in on the ever present Ferrothorn and proceed to set up Stealth Rocks (or a Sub if you want). I suggest this set:
(same nature, EVs, and such as Icy's set)
~ Stealth Rocks
~ Roar / Substitute
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power / Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
SR is obviously to set up with switch-ins from your opponent. Roar is to tally up your forced switches, Sub to predict a switch and set up that way, as well as, still being behind a balloon. FB is for obvious powerful STAB. The last move is a filler, and it doesn't really matter what you choose; really just depends on opinion.
Sableye is a good staller, but you need water type attacks. Bulky water's are always great to have on a team as well. So yes, I agree with Icy on Jellicent (maybe Gyarados to stop fighting types from getting at Ferrothorn) because it is bulky and can definitely scare some pokes out because of it's walling capabilities, as well as, how it can cripple some pokes phenomenally!

Anyways, sorry for the rather long rate. I think of it as getting better is always the better option than to leave gaps aside though! Really, just have fun and good luck! :D
Hope this helped!~
 
Big thanks to both of you guys, helps a lot to get some opinions.

I made the heatran>moltres change, I'm going with balloon, roar>substitute and HP Ice for the fourth slot. Also going with Jellicent, switched Hitmontop to a leftovers and Ferrothorn as well (although I may switch back to shed shell after testing), and changed Abomasnow's EVs. Only slot I'm having trouble with is Sigilyph/Latias/Reuniclus, they all have worked really well but have different issues although I feel those will be lessened once I figure out movesets and have better general knowledge of the metagame. Thanks a lot again!
 
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