Nidoking (Update)

Thund91

Thund91

is a Contributor Alumnus
I'm not really a big fan of Nidoking, but he's an old UU fav and still has his uses in UU (can dismantle FGW cores, for example).

[SET]
name: New Mix
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Shadow Ball / Taunt
item: Life Orb
ability: Poison Point
nature: Naive / Hasty
evs: 24 Atk / 232 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET]
name: Classic Mix
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Super Power
item: Life Orb
ability: Poison Point
nature: Rash
evs: 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe


summary of updates:

Took a new direction with the mixed sweeper as recommended by Flare. Tested it and works great. Speed is now emphasized more because of the large usage of base 80s and to tie with Toxicroak. Superpower is meh (need max Attack to OHKO Clefable wtf), so went with EQ which still 2HKO's Chansey, Clefable, and Registeel while freeing up an extra slot. Ice Beam for Grass- and Ground-types like Donphan, Tangrowth, and Venusaur. Thunderbolt for flyers and bulky waters like Milotic. Now, Superpower is replaced with Shadow Ball to 2HKO Missy who can switch in easily on this set. It also helps hit the pixies harder (Mesprit is 2HKOed, max HP Uxie can take up to 45%) since they commonly switch into Nidoking. Taunt is there so Clefable or Chansey don't recoil stall you if they switch in on a revenge kill, and helps to prevent random shit from setting up.

Classic Mix will now remain in the analysis.

[SET]
name: Anti-(suicide?)Lead
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Ice Beam / Toxic Spikes
item: Focus Sash
ability: Poison Point
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

summary of updates:

Gave Nidoking a Timid nature to take advantage of his Speed mid-game if he's still around, outspeeding base 80s. Nidoking is the fastest user of Taunt/SR in UU so it's a nice niche. Earth Power for STAB and is chosen over Earthquake to hit Steelix and Rhyperior harder. Ice Beam is for Ground-types and gives great two move coverage with Earth Power. Added Toxic Spikes as an option to add more than just SR. Unlike Drapion, Nidoking doesn't fear Donphan and can use his Ground STAB to scare off Poison-types.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Shadow Ball / Thunder
item: Life Orb
ability: Poison Point
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

summary of updates:

Pure special attack set added for ease in dealing with Rhyperior, the pixies, and Steelix among others. Earth Power + Thunder also has a decent chance to KO Milotic.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Sucker Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Poison Point
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

summary of updates:

I actually really liked this set. I think the problem is that people play it like mixed Nidoking and expect it to obliterate walls, when it doesn't. This plays like more of a clean up Pokemon with its great coverage. STAB Earthquake with Stone Edge + Megahorn for bulky Grass- and Psychic-types is just awesome. This Nidoking is also one of the best SD receivers because of the aforementioned coverage, decent Speed, immunity to Thunder Wave, and access to priority. These will all be mentioned in the analysis.

[OU Mixed Sweeper set goes here]
 
Timid nature on Physical set I dunno is this some thund gimmick or something?

And why not slash Superpower next to Shadow Ball if Taunt is being used mainly for Clefable and Chansey anyway?
 
The physical attacker set is Timid :)

Speaking of that, I'm actually surprised you didn't include a pure special attacker, since the physical set doesn't 2hko Milotic with Earthquake while the special set can with Thunderbolt...I'm thinking Earth Power/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Shadow Ball or Thunder with a straightforward max/max timid spread. Shadow Ball is for 2hkoing the common psychics who switch in and dealing with Mismagius a lot easier, while Thunder can take out Milotic around 60% of the time (damage roll/accuracy) if it gets in on Earth Power. The primary distinction from the Mixed set is that Earth Power lets you deal with Steelix and Rhyperior a LOT easier than Earthquake does, which can be important, but obviously you're walled indefinitely by the pink blobs now...
 
Yeah plz add a special set - it works! EPower, Icebeam, Thunderbolt/Thunder, Shadow Ball/Focus Punch (nailing punk blobs on the switch).

And Sucker Punch should probably get a mention in the mixed Set (AC?) if your team struggles more with offensive inclined teams then stallbased ones.

In the physical attacker set Aqua Tail should get a mention cause it can 2hko Donphan (not more though, its generally not worth it but if someone struggles against Donphan...).

Leafon is a good Teammate for Nidoking.


(Oh and mention Lovely Kiss - oh wait this isnt the good ol GSC-Nidoking....)
 
Jeez guys make me feel bad for trying to get it in before I knock out. ;___;

Heysup said:
And why not slash Superpower next to Shadow Ball if Taunt is being used mainly for Clefable and Chansey anyway?
Click to expand...

Taunt is useful for many more things, they're just a bonus. :)

@Flare-I actually never thought about a special attacker set, probably because Nidoking is so much better at mixed sweeping....I'll test it.

I don't think Sucker Punch would prove that useful on the mixed set....only faster Pokemon it's going to do anything to is Missy and Zam, and they commonly use Sub.

Aqua Tail could get a mention in AC. Leafeon will be mentioned in the physical attacker set.

If Nidoking got Lovely Kiss I'd use it on every team....Take that Venusaur.
 
When I was playing around with Nidoking I found using a physical lead a little more helpful in some situations than the special version. Quake/Edge is nice regardless, but it also hits Uxie, Mesprit, Scyther (which is becoming surprisingly more popular) and Mismagius harder, as well as things like Pinsir, Moltres, and Snover. Just a thought.
 
I tested the first set...I didn't like it. It was too weak. Earthquake, most of the time, was its strongest Attack and it does not do enough damage to what it needs to. Pokemon like Rhyperior and Venusaur come in and survive all of Nidoking's attacks even though they are SE. Spiritomb, as well. I liked the old set better because you emphasize Nidokings excellent special coverage and still get passed Chansey.
 
Really? I found this set much better than the old spread. Seeing how offensive UU hs become now Nidoking needs the Speed. Sure the old Nidoking may have been able to OHKO more threats but that doesn't matter when Venusaur outspeeds and just Leaf Storms/Sleep Powders you.
 
I think there is at least a case for keeping both. Earthquake, being uninvested, is almost more like a Ground-type coverage move than an actual STAB move. Having that STAB Earth Power is definitely worthwhile against at least as many threats as Shadow Ball is. I know we usually don't like having multiple, similar, sets, but I don't really like the idea of removing the old set on the grounds that the new one is "better". You've removed the STAB move and are considering it "just as good" because it ekes out 2HKOes on a few pokemon (two of which have instant recovery) that the old set did well against.

I'm not saying the new set is bad, but I'm trying to point out that the new set is not necessarily an optimized version of the old one. I'd really like to see a "classic mix" set along with a "new mix" set, sort of like Salamence had, rather than the removal of the old one. Also, with Black and White coming, the strategy dex is about to become a chronicle of 4th gen, so deleting the long-time #1 set for Nidoking seems like something not to take lightly.

P.S.
I just did some calcs and I'm going to have to contest the claim about Earthquake 2HKOing Clefable. Earthquake does 44.2% - 52% to 252 HP 0 Def Clefable, which is not impressive considering that: Clefable takes no damage from entry hazards, Leftovers means you never 2HKO, and many Clefable invest a bit in Defense.
 
Hmm that's a good idea. I think I'll go with classic mix/new mix. Will also test the pure special attacker set since I'll be testing Toxicroak soon too.
 
Updated the op again. Classic mix added as well as a pure special attacker. Looks a bit messy right now but I hope to organize it later. This analysis is looking to be quite big. ;___;
 
stamp3.png
 
Mention somewhere that Classic mix is not very viable against offensive teams and should only be used if a given team is fairly stall-weak. New Mix takes on both stall and offensive well, but doesn't excel against either.

The set order is great the way you have it, by the way. I'd write up the update just like this.

stamp3.png
 
hmm no fire blast? you lose out a bit on altaria, spdef torterra, and donphan, but get a likely ohko on life orb venusaur after sr.

ice beam vs 4/0 venusaur: 67.1% - 79.1%
fire blast vs 4/0 venusaur: 84.4% - 99.7%
meaning venusaur checks ice beam nidoking if it switches in after a KO, but if SR is up and nidoking has fire blast venusaur has a good chance of not doing anything

ice beam vs 252/0 donphan: 79.7% - 93.8%
earth power vs 252/0 donphan: 56.5% - 66.7%
ice beam vs 252/252+ torterra: 82.2% - 97.5%
fire blast vs 252/252+ torterra: 51.8% - 60.9%
ice beam vs 4/0 torterra: 140.2% - 165.6%
fire blast vs 4/0 torterra: 88.2% - 103.9%
altaria is the other pkmn you hit less hard. easily killing that + donphan + torterra might make ice beam a little bit better but the increased damage vs a common offensive check should get a mention somewhere!
 
I'd maybe add that on the Classic Mixed simply because it needs to OHKO Venusaur rather than the new Mixed which outpaces Venusaur so it can't switch in.

I always forget about Fire Blast....
 
I think he was talking about the pure special attacker set maybe? Anyways if Hera does stay in UU I could see Fire Blast getting a slash somewhere instead of just AC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top