XY OU Non FWG Core Stall WTF!

[teon]

Hi everyone, I'm really newbie on Pokemon showdown and competitive playing, just made one unsuccesfull RMT a few months ago, but trying and trying, i found a team that really deserves a RMT, I peaked 1500 with it, not a lot, but I'm rlly happy with it.

I'm here asking you cause I dont know alot of metagame, counters and sets, so I really apreciate help on that side, what kind of setups / pókes can destroy my team, how to fix it, and things that can help to improve that team without destroying it. Let's go!

Big update:

I've been playing this team a looooooooooot this days and I switched a lot of pokés from it, now I'll explain about the changes of the team that rided me till 1600:

​

First of all, medicham didn't worked as I spect when I grow in elo, so I've seen all the Megas and tried Mawile, and Mawile SHINES! She just destroy a lot of teams and with an sword dance can sweep a whole team without problems! :D

So the first change is:

Medicham --> Mawile

Then I didn't feel good with slowbro and feel like I need a little bit of surprise on the taem plus a wish provider, and then I found the póke, THE big, pink and beautiful ALOMOLA! Mirror coat alomola wins a lot of games with unexpected Mirror coat, so lets make another change:

Slowbro --> alomola

All changes of comments still here, gliscor is still being SpDef gliscor (personally, i love it, thanks Aragorn the King for this change, cause was awesome), Sableye was just godlike now with the changes to defense too. I keeped skarmory without defog, and didn't loss yet any game cause I dont have defog, but replaced brave bird with spikes (seriously, with sableye, only defog can put out hazzards, rapid spin is easy blocked by sableye =D ). Also, sableye with foul play now can oneshot a lot of things, like talonflame or other physical sweepers that cannot be killed by oneshot of any of my other pókes.

So now you can see the post updated, with a lot of changes:

NOTE 1: I won't change the construction phase of the post, just upgrade it.
NOTE 2: Upgraded importable too.



First of all, I choose pokemons that I like a lot, and then builded a team around them, so, lets first with the construction process:

First of all, Sableye, my fauvorite póke, when he has mega, my whole team will be rdy for it! Its is a master of stall-break with taunt / WoW, so I choose him, and now, my other fauvorite póke, sorry for the pic, I want to put Gliscor but there are not pic of him yet, so i put Gligar, i supose everyone can understand it, he's awesome, tanking a lot, can toxic stall a whole team, and can kill with earthquake OHKO aegislash after get a hit. With this 2, we can stall break and stall a little bit yet, so the next is an Speciall wall and another walling/utility pókes.

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A really good special wall, chansey? my pinky fauvorite póke, and another wall, for ww and SR setter, skarmory, and with that, we have a solid core on the team, but we have to include 2 more pókes, that will make that team an strong team:

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Yes, Mega-Medicham, he sweeps a lot of things, is a really strong thread for a lot of teams and can destroy a whole team behind a Sub, so, why not? and she remember my hours of pokemon gaming when I was playing on my Game Boy Advance, and played Medicham like my main póke, so, I really love it.

Finally, i have to choose the 6th póke, that is, Clefable! Im not really sure about that, but it works really well, if can land a couple of calm mid, she can put the seal of fate on the game, just moonlightning everything behind a sub, so, lets see now how the team is builded.


-->SINCE UPDATE:

Mega Mawile replaced MMedicham, simply cause It worked better for me, and is a little bit more bulky on hp and defense. Also with Sword dance she can be turned in autowin póke.

Then I want to replace clefable cause is not working a lot on that team, so lets Swap to the Regenerating fish, that can be readed from both sides :D ALOMOLA - ALOMOLA. She provides wish to the team, a bulky tanky fish and destroyer of any special atacker that cannot oneshot her, now lets see the sets! Sorry for the pick but the Alomola art is not done yet :(

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play​

A really standard build for Sableye, full Special defense invested for Walling Special sweepers, with WoW can tank a lot of physical sweepers cause of the -50% atack, taunt + WoW is just awesome, can break a lot of stalls, prevent hazards setting and status changing. If you never tryed it, I really insist, prankster is one of the best abilitys in pókemon for sure, it alow you to guarantee a recover before getting hitted by anything. And sableye has only problems with fairy-type atacks, 2 inmunity and is really bulky, so what more? Normally i lead with sableye against any team with skarmory / forretress / ferrothorn.​

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpD / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Toxic​

Here is, common toxic-EQ gliscor with sub and Roost, full def invested and with 72EV on Speed for outspeed a lot of things, I'm thinking on making it a mixed wall putting this 184EV on SpDef but I'm not really sure about that. I tried knock off sets too, but without EQ i cannot sweep heatran/aegislash/otherSteelPókes, tried to play without sub and get Taunt, or without toxic, but sub saved me a lot of time making time till toxic hurts a lot without beint OHKO. Gliscor check a lot of pókes, like Mpinsir, aegislash, and physical sweepers. My first toxic setter too, next is comming now.​

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpD / 252 Def / 4 HP
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
​

The pink-EggCarrier is here to tank everything that you want and more! Any Special Move that I can think now can OHKO chansey, not even 2HKO, so that, mixed with full invested Defense EV, make chansey really bulky, usually chansey finish my games with seismic toss spam, or toxic stalling everyone and then healing + change poke to reset stats changes. Aromatherapy is my choose cause a lot of pokes on my team suffers from a toxic/WoW, and that is a problem, skarmory or sableye getting hurted every turn will destroy me slowly and i dont want to so, aromatherapy is for covering that weakness. Finally chansey is my second and last toxic setter.​

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Counter
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My superPhysical tank that can deal with any single physical sweeper, even if hitted by fire or electric, whirlwind saved me a lot of times against sworDance setup or batton pass in general, counter can surprise a lot of teams, getting a big hit but returning even more of that hit to the atacker, Roost obviusly is for sustain and Stealth rock is the best move in the game so i need it. WHY NO DEFOG OMFG? the team really don't need, any pokemon gets a huge hit from Stealth rock and other setters can be taunted by sableye, i lost only 1 game by getting fullsetted of spikes + toxic spikes + stealth rock, but only one game, so its not a problem for me. EV are full invested on Def and HP for more bulk. Rocky helmet is for killing or punishing physical atackers on switch of skarmory.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance​

This little girl is a nightmare for opponents if played well, in a lot of games I simply didn't used cause is not needed, but when I see the oportunity, I always go with him, against chanseys or pókes that cannot threat Mawile, go ahead, then just atack, if he switch,you get a free HUGE hit, if didn't switch, the opponent probably loose xD I choose sword Dance but I'm thinking on replacing by another atack, fire punch or ice punch, but untill now, I feel like the difference will be little. The only problem she has is, if it has to get a hit before Mega evolves, she can be in a problem.

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Protect
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As you can see, full Def EV spread here, is the only thing that I'm not sure about that cause if it was SpDef, here is the keldeo check but being full Def, she can still get a hit of keldeo, survive and kill it with Mirror Coat, so I keeped this EV spread. Mirror coat > Toxic only cause I have 2 toxics yet on my team, not more needed. Wish grant to my team a Huge heal to any póke, even if that póke has a recover move, sometimes you dont have the turns to switch, be hitted twice and then heal, so I found it really usefull to my team, and it grant a full heal to mawile if she get a couple of hits. Also, Regenerator alows you to switch even if you're at 1% hp and return to get more hits in a future.

Threads:

Offensive Char X with Dragon dance, In fact, untill I reached 1600, the only poke that overpowered my whole team is Char X, anyway, I'm newbie and didn't see any more counters, for sure there are a lot but, I don't see it, I'm sorry for that!

And thats my team guys! Hope you can help and talk about the team with me a lot, trying to improve and make me better player!



Updated importable:

Updated importable:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Spikes

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Protect

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Also I want to thanks and recomend you a pick website that i found and was AWESOME: http://paprik--a.tumblr.com/

Old team pókes:

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt​

My sweeper, my panic-Poke that won a lof of lost games just spaming Drain punch, Substitute makes Medicham really worth if you can set it and spam Drain punch a lot, cause you will recover the hp lost from substitute, Fire punch work against any Steel type pokemon and Zen heatbutt gets stab and can flinch (luky flinches won games :P), the EV investment is for full sweeping, I really dont know about fire punch cause it can be ice punch too. Thinking about getting recover + high jump kick instead of fire punch + drain punch, thoughts guys? I'm really new and I want to every single poke can heal himself but I think im wrong, can you tell me?

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Substitute
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The last one and the less confortable póke for me, clefable won a lot of games for me, but I'm not sure if i really needed, for sure there are pókes that can destroy my whole team, but I dont really know cause I'm newbie on pokemon competitive battling, so if you tell me some pókes that can be a thread for me, I can swap this last póke! Anyway I will explain a little bit of clefable, she is my lategame sweeper if everything fails, any moment is a good moment for start to calm mid and sweep a whole team, but I rarelly find that moment, when clefable won a game for me, i think, its worth! but other games is just meh, and im not sure about him.

Thanks for all!

 

[Aragorn the King]

First, I’d recommend using max physical bulk instead of special bulk on Sableye. Even with investment, Sableye takes special hits very poorly. Its main job is to wall Mega Medicham to hell and back, but it can’t do this as well when it has little Defense investment. Switching the investment is little opportunity cost, as it only improves your standing against teams which have a physical Pokemon you must switch into. Try not to switch Sableye into special attackers, as it has no business staying in on them. Second, I’d switch Night Shade to Foul Play, as attacking based off of the opponent’s Attack stat is usually more useful than having set 100 HP damage. It lets it beat the physical attackers it’s supposed to beat better.

Very similarly to Sableye, I believe your EVs on Gliscor should be swapped. Specially defensive Gliscor is an amazing set now, and it counters Landorus, who, if running Calm Mind or Knock Off, sweeps the rest of your team. Switch Substitute with Taunt, the HP EVs to 244, and the Defense investment to Special Defense, and you’re golden. This allows you to handle Aegislash better and Landorus at all, while still being able to handle Heatran and Excadrill.

Switching Chansey’s HP EVs to Special Defense is generally better, as its HP is higher naturally, and investing in Special Defense will improve its special bulk better than HP investment. It sacrifices some physical bulk, but Chansey should only be taking physical hits in a pinch.

I’d recommend using Defog on Skarmory, but seeing as you’re against using it/don’t think you need it, I won’t. The only changes I’d make on Skarmory would be replacing Rocky Helmet with Leftovers for the passive recovery and removing the unnecessary Speed investment.

Medicham is a Pokemon that has one job: to deal insane damage. Thus, Recover + Drain Punch are very subpar options on it. Definitely replace Drain Punch with High Jump Kick; it’ll make its job of beating walls easier. Since you have a hard counter to Aegislash, the only real target of Fire Punch, I’d also recommend replacing Fire Punch with Ice Punch, which allows you to hit Landorus-T and Gliscor. Also, I’d recommend being Adamant instead of Jolly, as the +Spe Base 100 Tier is too crowded to risk Speed ties in my opinion; it prefers the power from Adamant. Overall, using Medicham on a stall team is a bit weird, as it offers no defensive synergy at all. However, I can see its use as a way to beat opposing stall teams (1 v. 1 it beats Quagsire, Venusaur, Heatran, Skarmory, Amoonguss, and Clefable sometimes), so I think it may be worth keeping.

You said that Clefable wasn’t mandatory, so at this point I’m ignoring it. I am looking at the top tier threats in OU and making sure you have something on your team for all of them. I noticed that no Pokemon on your team beats mega Charizard-X or Keldeo, who are both very common. Medicham can check a Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, but otherwise you have nothing. One Pokemon that handle both is Slowbro. When using maximum HP and maximum Defense, it can always switch in on a +1 Charizard X and use Thunder Wave. Then, it can wear it down with Psychic to the point at which Sableye, Gliscor, or Medicham can revenge kill it. Keldeo is a bit trickier, as it has a slight chance to 2HKO with Specs Hydro Pump. However, it still works. Use Thunder Wave on it, and then 2HKO it with Psychic. When relying on a move with low accuracy + PP when paralyzed on a Pokemon that it only has an 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Keldeo will never come on top. Remember though, that passive damage like sand, Stealth Rock, and burn from Scald can ruin this. It’s thus a good thing you have Aromatherapy on Chansey, but I’d still consider Defog over Whirlwind on Skarmory. Anyway, you should use max HP and max Defense on Slowbro, use a moveset of Scald, Psychic, Thunder Wave, and Slack Off, and use the ability Regenerator.

This is overall a unique and well structured team that unfortunately crumbles to two extremely common Pokemon. Hopefully switching Clefable to Slowbro will help remedy this. Good luck with this team, teon! Hope I helped :)

~Aragorn

 

[teon]

OMG! thats more than I've ever expected on a RMT! I'll change everything you said, it seems like all that you said have sense, so, lets edit now! Thank you seriuosly! I've seen that sableye cannot tank venusaur with gigadrain for example, I'll give the defense and foul play to sableye. The change to slowbro is like that i need! he checks my biggest problems. Keldeo was a big problem for sure, I've lost a couple of games against a single keldeo that sweep my whole team. Thanks a lot for respecting Medicham too, i like a lot and will be sad for me to replace (before mega sableye appears on scene :P). I really like the idea of chansey, that changes will make eviolite more worth too i think, and changes on gliscor taht you said are really interesting, I'll try it, taunt is one of my fauvorite moves and seems like it can work well.

Thank you a lot! I'll reply after a few testing of changes! :D

EDIT:

I'll post here some replays (my playing knowledge is not really good but is the best that i can do untill now :D )

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-145148154

 

[Sun King]

This is a unique team--you should be proud of your ability to think outside of the box!

I would STRONGLY urge you to put Defog on this team. I understand that Savleye can taunt, but if thing get out of hand, you are SOL. Another thing I see this team having issues with is Rotom-Wash. Rotom-W will be comfortable switching in on anything barring maybe Medicham, and he'll give your opponent constant momentum. Over time, the damage will start to add up (especially if you don't get rid of hazards). You can only keep your chansey alive for so long against a team using Rotom-W, and once she goes, things will get ugly. That said, you could also try Quagsire instead of Slowbro to stop the momentum. I understand Quaggy is a little less reliable, but he counters any Charizard X lacking Outrage. Additionally, he stops sweepers from getting too out of hand, which is pretty nice to have on a stall team.

Aside from that, I'm curious to see how this team will do with a few tweaks here and there. Definitely keep it up, and don't scrap the team.

 

[Alan Alonso]

What if instead of slobro, you rum Latios (or even latias)? Something like:

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Defog

Thunderbolt handles both Char y and Keldeo (alongside with psychock on the last one), Draco Meteor and Psychock are great STABs for huge damage with the life orb, and defog so you can defog

Or you could go with a more bulky

Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Psyshock / Thunderbolt

Same idea, on a bulkier version, psychick for general damage, beeing a great STAB, Still walls pretty hard Keldeo, and can manage Char y pretty well too. Thunderbolt to Straight check also Char Y. Roost along with leftovers recovery, will give you a lot of time in the field.

 

[teon]

Thanks to the replies! I'm testing on different changes about slowbro slot, I tried and didn't worked for me, prob i don't know how to correctly play it. Char X is handable by gliscor, a couple of EQ can deal with while taunt can cut roost, so, I'm focusing on keldeo, that is a problem right now, I like both suggestions, I'll try the bulky latias set and Quagsire (also i have a quagsire competitive breed on my pokemon X :) ) so lets give it a try!

What you think guys, about alomola wish/scald/protect/mirror coat? She works really good against keldeo with mirror coat plus other special sweepers :)
Other pókes that i tried was Jellicent with taunt but cannot deal with Keldeo so... :( Keep trying! I'll test this changes now!

 

[Sun King]

The charizard X set you need to worry about isn't the Roost/Will o Wisp set--it's the Dragon Dance set. Specially Defensive Gliscor cannot take that on. That will steamroll your team as it currently stands. Aragorn the King was correct in highlighting Slowbro as an answer to Charizard X's sweeping set, and he's also correct that it's GENERALLY a good answer to Keldeo. Additionally, if your opponent hydro pumps against Slowbro, you can always switch to chansey to tank the hit while Slowbro regenerates. I actually think Slowbro will help your team most here. As for Latias--she CAN handle both Charizard and Keldeo, but you need to run the Choice Scarf set to outspeed Charizard X at +1 speed and kill it. If you are okay with that style of play, then you can test it out.

 

[teon]

Updated the whole thread, Adding alomola + Mega Mawile, in fact, is a little bit of refactoring the team. All changes made before explained in the thread too, and thanks for everyon that posted here till now, I'm learning a lot about the threads that can destroy my team. Thanks to ;lmlm I understood now the the "other" char X that I didn't know untill you explained it. I think I still have a problem against char X, with the update, I actually deal with 1/4 char X with dragon dance that appear on my opponents, but feel like if I change something to get more chance against charX, I'll be more vulnerable against other teams, so I really dont know now about how to improve. Im really satisfied with the team in the current state, and when Mega Sableye comes here, I will only swap my mega Sweeper with other Sweeper and upgrade my Sableye :D:D:D