Metagame NP: Stage 17 - Barracuda (Politoed Banned + Tier Shift)

etern

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NU Leader

:barraskewda: :politoed: :rhyperior: :politoed: :barraskewda:

Time for a fresh thread! The major tier shift has hit and we have some new Pokemon swimming into the meta as well as the loss of some metagame staples. The changes are as follows:

Losses:
:gastrodon: Gastrodon moved from NU to RU :gastrodon:
:muk-alola: Muk-Alola moved from NU to RU :muk-alola:

Gains:

:feraligatr: Feraligatr moved from RU to NUBL :feraligatr:
:suicune: Suicune moved from RU to NUBL :suicune:
:barraskewda: Barraskewda moved from RU to NU :barraskewda:
:politoed: Politoed moved from RU to NU :politoed:
:rhyperior: Rhyperior moved from RU to NU :rhyperior:

FURTHERMORE, the NU Council held an emergency vote on Politoed following it's return to the tier, as Drizzle / Auto-Rain has proven to be extremely oppressive and overpowered in NU historically. A 6/9 majority is required for a ban via council slate. The results are as follows:

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Thus, Politoed is once again banned from SV NU via council vote! Tagging Marty dhelmise to please remove him from ladder, thank you!

Let us know what you think of the changes to the tier below. Who benefits the most? Will Barraskewda and Rhyperior be balanced? Let's discuss.
 
I remember a lot of people saying that manual rain wasn't good before the shift and that the loss of gastrodon and gaining barraskewda wouldn't help much since vapo would just be used more to take its place and in rain, basculegion hits harder with water STAB (Wave crash hits so much harder that a scarf adaptability wave crash from legion hits harder than banded liquidation from barraskewda). The 2 sidegrade each other so rain didn't really gain as much as you'd think from barraskewda dropping. Vaporeon usage is probably going to go way up and Toxicroak is also still around. I think more pressing than rain is Munkidori becoming a problem because Muk-A is gone
 
I’m glad Rhyperior is back in NU since it gives another a great offensive ground-type that isn’t Flygon and a great answer to Toxtricity. Barraskewda is one I’m confident that is going solid addition to the tier. If toad was still in NU I can with confidence it would been ridiculous however with toad ban I think Barraskewda is going to fine with it struggling to fit all the moves it need to hit foes like croak, Waterbull, and Amoonguss. However, I do believe manual rain should be watch since we have a lot of power rain sweepers in the tier.
 
Quick initial thoughts

:barraskewda:
Physical Inteleon is probably the best way to put it. The departure of Gastrodon is certainly very helpful and tera Fighting Close Combat is extremely strong. Will probably be decent on the manual rain teams that will get used and probably will have merit outside of that on BO teams as a Choice Band breaker or even just a boots pivot. That being said I can't see it being that crazy, will probably just be pretty good.

:rhyperior:
Now this guy I think will actually be really good. Rhyperior has been in NU previously and was a very strong underrated mon at the time. Now it finds itself in a much weaker NU than it was in previously so I don't see how it will not be excellent this time around. Even its pre-evo Rhydon was finding some success in tournament play so there is no reason that Rhyperior cannot replicate this at an even greater level. Solid Rock with Terastillisation is incredible and with Swords Dance and STABs it can be a very effective rocker. Even dual dance with Weakness Policy sound like a lot of fun. I think Rhyperior will very quickly establish itself as one of the best ground types in the tier.

:gastrodon: :muk-alola:
Alolan Muk rising is pretty tragic as it was the best blanket special wall in the tier by a country mile. Now some of the best pokemon in the tier have become even better such as Chandelure and Munkidori but we will have to see what developments happen over the coming days to adjust for this. Gastrodon admittedly is not as significant but still pretty important as it was getting lots of usage in tournament play and is also a huge mon on ladder. Could end up making Inteleon and the newcomer Barraskewda pretty scary to play against.

:feraligatr: :suicune:
Not much to comment on, these guys should stay locked up.

:reuniclus:
The other projected drop that didn't end up happening which I'm kinda sad about because this probably would of been the most fun mon to use. Although maybe with no Alolan Muk it was for the best.

Looking forward to see what developments happen over the course of NULT and LTWC.
 
Just wanted to make a speculative post on a couple of winners and losers of the latest shift:

Winners:

:munkidori: Munkidori

Munkidori is salivating at the loss of Alolan Muk, which was its hardest counter. Its still stopped by Steel-types, but those are more vulnerable to coverage moves like Shadow Ball or Focus Blast, and I honestly thing Trick + Black Sludge will see a surge in popularity now that it has no bad matchups. Might have to ban this guy, but we should at least give him a chance.

:raikou: Raikou

Raikou lovers rejoice, for Gastrodon is no more. Now you can run Scald with no drawbacks, which makes blocking Volt Switch a hard ask for Ground-types like Flygon, Rhyperior, and Gligar, plus you have a chance at making meaningful progress versus Swampert.

Losers:

:kilowattrel: Kilowattrel

While the departure of Gastrodon is nice, the addition of its new biggest opp, Rhyperior, may put a serious damper on Kilowattrel's spammability. It is also outsped by our new pal Barraskewda, losing its title of "Fastest Mon in NU". Should still be good but maybe drops a rank or two on the VR.
 
:amoonguss:

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but I can't help but feel as if Amoonguss stocks are extremely high with this shift and it has the ability to properly cement itself as viable now. It having a noticeably worse Muk mu than Plume kind of made it weird to use despite its better bulk, Regen, and solid utility options, but with Muk rising, DD Flygon stocks at an all time high, the dropping of Barra and Rhyp, and teams trending towards the fatter side of the spectrum, I think it has a lot of really cool traits for the current meta. This is mostly theorymonning, but I think it's time we start to consider this guy a bit more again, even over Plume. I'm a known Plume hater in every gen (ban it), but I think Amoonguss has certain traits that can make it more splashable onto BO/Offense as a Regen pivot or onto Balance as a physical wall and Fight resist. Side note, but it's a shame Gastro rose because the core of Amoonguss / Zong / Gastro / Scrafty would have dominated this tier I swear.
 
Ok now that we have had a little more time to play the frogless meta (ripperoni in pizza poli), I wanted to highlight a couple mons and my initial thoughts!

:rhyperior: Rhyperior
Rhydon has been a sleeper good mon for a while, but rhyp is a significant upgrade. This mon just has the stats. SD is really strong particularily SD | EQ | Ice punch | Temper Flare (which does double damage vs a bronzong if you eq as it comes in) but it also has a lot of other options that it can use to pick on certain things (megahorn, crunch, etc.) Tank sets are great I'm sure but I have been using sd variants more. I've heard of people trying things like av too which might be cool with wish support. Rhyperior usually goes at least 1 for 1, usually 2 for 1. It can trade vs everything basically and its just a really solid... rock. Rhyp so far has become fairly meta defining but so far at least I don't think thats a bad thing. I reserve the right to change that opinion over time though.

:Chandelure: Chandy
Not gonna elaborate too much here but honestly if your balance team does not have an incineroar it is gonna be somewhat weak to chandy. Power here is crazy and I'm not sure giving this energy ball was the best idea GF lol

:munkidori: Munki
Deserving premier scarfer of the tier. U-turn punishes have always been crazy but have gotten even more so post amuk. Some people have called this banworthy and honestly I think we should keep an eye on it. It is a great scarfer and hard not to use it sometimes... but I'm more curious about nasty plot. NP | Psychic | Shadow Ball | Focus Blast hits the entire tier as far as I can tell now and it no longer needs to commit to groundblast (allowing for tera psychic or a more defensive tera like steel or flying.) I haven't used this set in this meta a ton but it seems very strong right now.

:raikou: Raikou
Raikou has been mid for a long time but it definitely got freed up more! We may see this more on the rise going forward? Now it has to run scald for rhyperior but it doesn't really mind honestly. It might actually rise to be an A- or so rank or it may continue to dissapoint. Time will tell!

:barraskewda: Skewda
Speed and attack stats here are silly but thankfully it doesn't have wave crash! Band seems solid but manageable outside of rain, but tera fight cc does hurt a lot of it's would be switch ins (namely vapo.) Being the new fast mon in the tier is huge though too. I think skewda is probably going to be fine though -- if we have the tools to manage legion we have the tools to manage this. It is so fast though... When the dust settles I'm guessing this will be like an A- rank mon. Just a prediction though.

Edit: I forgot to mention this originally but I think the tier is def more enjoyable post shift than it was before! Not have the builder pressure of amuk is nice and rhyp is fun to use!
 
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:altaria::tsareena:
General note has been that people for the past several weeks finally want real removal on teams again. Altaria and Tsareena both have seen consistent tournament (and even ladder) usage for awhile now as balance team staples, and for good reason. Altaria, DESPITE THE PASSIVITY, is quite good defensively. Flamigo checks are hard to come by, and although it can try and cheese past you with Tera Flying Brave Bird sets, those have clear drawbacks and are far less common. Additionally, Altaria doesn't hate the drop of Rhyperior as much as it might have in a prior generation because of Will-O-Wisp, so it's not completely dead in the water now. Tsareena on the other hand once again makes use of its movepool featuring all the broken utility moves: recovery, Knock Off, and Rapid Spin. In particular, we're seeing a good amount of Covert Cloak usage too for 1) having a Scald switch-in and 2) not struggling into Bronzong really at all.

Naturally, this isn't to say that Heavy-Duty Boots-centric teams are gone. Two of our balance teams in the samples thread are Superman-style in featuring almost only Pokemon that can stave off entry hazards entirely or just don't mind them a ton. But, it's pretty clear that there's some more breathing room in the tier, perhaps due to Porygon-Z's ban even. With Alolan Muk now also gone, hopefully balance can continue to find its footing and expand in diversity even more.
 
To add onto Rabia's post about NU's hazard removal options, my go-to option is definitely Cramorant. Although it's physical bulk is pretty bad, EVs go a long way to make the most of an amazing typing for the metagame. I find the combination of Breloom and Cramorant to be really strong and splashable for multiple reasons.

:sv/breloom: :sv/cramorant:
Breloom, specifically it's Poison Heal sets btw, infamously destroy Vaporeon teams that make Cramorant effectively useless. Cramorant also trolls offense teams super hard with Gulp Missile leading to trades that are almost never worth taking for the opponent, which is great as Breloom is pretty poor against offensive teams that don't let it get the ball rolling. Breloom is fairly contentious currently due to the potency of its Poison Heal sets, but using it means you cannot use Tsareena and generally do not want the passivity and loss of momentum from Altaria, making Cramorant the perfect option for hazard removal.
 
I'm officially washed. Which is a shame, because I've felt really creative and excited in the builder in this meta post Muk. It's been really freeing in many senses to not have to worry about that mon and I'm currently having a lot of fun messing around with different ideas in the builder, although I can already feel the hate for Breloom, Chandy, and Rhyp creep in as the tier gets more constricted. This week I spent a lot of time looking at Rhyperior and I wanted to share some things that I feel is a way to push this meta forward a bit. Gonna start with a fun set for those who don't like reading and just want the tech and then I'll go into some builder theory I've been messing around with a lot more.


:sv/rhyperior:
Rhyperior @ Assault Vest
Ability: Solid Rock
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Temper Flare
- Ice Punch
- Tera Blast

I genuinely think Rhyp is broken af and I think this set is what began to do it even more for me. The cool appeal of Rhyp is that you usually pair it with a Steel-type rocker in this meta and allow it to really flex its wide movepool, but when looking at the builder, I realized that none of those other sets necessarily let Rhyp beat its common checks right now like Tauros, Scrafty, or Breloom beyond some SD variations in certain moments. I realized that, if it had it, Play Rough would solve those matchups in many ways, but since it didn't have it, Tera Blast + Tera Fairy would have to do enough of a job here and it does. Besides that it's a really strong defensive tera in general that lets you beat nearly every single physical attacker in the tier at the moment, an unexpected Fairy Blast can flip entire games when you OHKO a +1 Def Scrafty trying to set up in front of you or KO a Wetbull if it switches into an EQ into a Fairy Blast through Intimidate. Even in the Breloom mu, if it can +1 it just lives, but you either force a Tera or easily 1v1 it. A lot of people were looking at Dragon Tail, which is cool, but I think Tera Blast Fairy is a really awesome tech that I haven't seen yet.

On this set, I went with AV just to really 1v1 most things in the meta while soft checking mons like Chandy or Tox a bit better. 244+ Ada leads to a guaranteed KO in the aforementioned Wetbull scenarios, even with lefties, and 12 SpD is needed to take 49.7 from Tox Boomburst (wtf.) and Munki Psychic. I originally theorized this set when helping Dugza in slam and he mentioned that it possibly made sense to invest much more in SpD with everyone speed creeping that 179 mark, so feel free to bring the speed down to the 156 range around Sylv and Incin, but you can also go as low as 137 for Plume. Incin creeps you anyways.
===========================================================================================================

:sv/cinccino: :sv/rhyperior:
Now for some team building theory talk. Building with Rhyp has felt so shitty in the current meta and it shows when most people keep bringing some variation of the same Rhyp team over and over again. By committing to a Rhyp angle, your team is naturally going to be extremely slow as you try to fill in all the other "mandatory things" a team needs right now and it feels like there's nothing one can do about it. Most teams will look something like this:

1. Rhyperior​
2. Steel rocker (Copper or Zong)​
3. Removal (Tsareena or Altaria or Cram)​
4. Dark-type (Scrafty or Incin or Overqwil)​
5. Speed control (Munki or Flamigo)​
6. Filler (usually a breaker or Fight-resist or further speed depending on team comp)​
Congrats! Take any combo of this that makes sense to you and you've just made a current meta SV NU Rhyperior team! The obvious issue here is that this sucks. It's boring, repetitive, food to meta trends like Breloom, and generally ends up with you having a slow and semi passive team sitting in your builder that most users don't like to see. When looking at team compositions like this, I realized that if we could compress some of these slots, there would be a lot more freedom to mess around with. When considering how this could be done given the above checklist, I was mostly drawn to the combo of Cinccino + Rhyp to help accomplish this goal. This obviously isn't a new combo, but Cinccino as a mon has largely disappeared from the community conscious as people began to lean away from more offensive teams and it's now generally ignored by people nowadays. Despite this, I'd like to argue that there's a ton of untapped potential with Cinccino, but especially in regards to this duo, and that these two mons together is an under explored direction for Rhyperior teams that can work wonders. This is for three main reasons:

1. Dark-types are great right now, but pretty slow, and the main reason we've been calling them "mandatory" for the last few weeks has been the rise in Chandelure usage and ban calls. If we begin to use Normal-types to check Chandy Shadow Ball instead of trying to fit a Dark-type on there, especially a fast one like Cinccino which doesn't bring our speed down even lower when using Rhyp, we're left with a lot more builder freedom to mess around with. Other Normal-types like Dududnudfsfsnfsksksparce and Melo are cool as well.

2. Our removal options are extremely limited right now and mostly all defensive. Cinccino in that regard has really fallen under the radar and isn't considered as removal nowadays as people lean towards more defensive pieces, despite its early prominence. Even though it's fallen out of favor, it's still a viable form of removal and a fantastic offensive threat with Dice + coverage.

3. It pairs extremely well with Rhyp who helps break down a lot of its checks like Bronzong and vice versa. Cinccino is an extremely underrated and fantastic cleaner right now, especially with the Dice sets + Bullet Seed/Axel coverage, so with the slight chip being picked up by Rhyp on all of these mons, you can easily set up some good rat sweeps. It's really an offensive match made in heaven in many ways.

1. Rhyperior 2. Steel rocker (Copper or Zong) etc​
Now that we've covered why Cinccino is worth considering, especially in conjunction with Rhyperior, when going back to this checklist with Cinccino in mind, I think it should become clear why I'm advocating for this duo. With Cinccino, you've gone ahead and compressed the removal, "Dark"-type, and filler speed guy all into one slot, opening up a ton of room in the builder for creativity. Essentially, you've gone ahead and opened up 1-2 spots on your team by just slotting in the rat chinchilla thingy over another form of removal. This suddenly gives Rhyp teams a ton more life and diversity that wasn't there before. For example, with this approach, balance cores get much more open, especially in regards to fitting an eeveelution alongside your tank Rhyperior, or any other form of bulky mon that couldn't fit before. There's also a BO or even an Offense angle that's now opened up as well with Cinccino as the partner, leading to a lot of potential for Dr. Phd. BJ style teams to exist around this mon like they did in the past with those Cinccino + Scyther cores of old. I've spent some time with this concept in the builder and I've been really impressed. For those who are sick and tired of the same Rhyp teams, I highly recommend doing the same. I genuinely believe in this core and I've had a lot of builder and play success with it so far.

:cinccino: :toxtricity: :flamigo: :rhyperior: :bronzong: :vaporeon: - super simple easy to pilot team with these concepts for those interested. Cinccino can be Bullet Seed>Axel and Tox can also be a Chandy :)
 
1. Rhyperior​
2. Steel rocker (Copper or Zong)​
3. Removal (Tsareena or Altaria or Cram)​
4. Dark-type (Scrafty or Incin or Overqwil)​
5. Speed control (Munki or Flamigo)​
6. Filler (usually a breaker or Fight-resist or further speed depending on team comp)​
I've done similiar checklist building and "Filler" just means "water resist/immunity so you don't auto lose to skewda and legion." You could cover it with removal but having your check be unflipturnable is a big win.
 
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