Announcement np: Stage 18: Fox in the Snow (Ninetales-A Suspect)

[DugZa]

​

Following the October shifts, Ninetales-A and snow archetypes have been at the forefront of the metagame. While snow teams were present in the tier before this by virtue of Abomasnow as a setter, Ninetales-A pushed the playstyle to a whole different level as a much more consistent setter of both snow and Aurora Veil. This has led to Ninetales-A and snow as a whole being a highly contentious topic in the tier over the past few weeks. As a result, the tier's best snow abusers Frosmoth and Sandslash-A have been buffed significantly. Of these, Frosmoth in particular gained noteworthy support for action in the recent tiering survey, support similar to Ninetales-A. As a result, the council was torn on which Pokemon should be targeted first, but ultimately opted to put Ninetales-A on the chopping block first most in part due to it being the newest drop in the tier that shifted the playstyle to a noteworthy extent; while Abomasnow snow was present with Frosmoth, they were never seen as problematic, making us believe that Ninetales-A was the most appropriate target.

Some believe that Ninetales-A has a decent typing with great breaking potential with Nasty Plot + 3 attacks sets, being able to customize its tera to break through would-be checks. Moreover, the tier lacks sturdy Ice-type resists while certain Pokemon that can resist it, like Arcanine are heavily nerfed by snow, limiting their ability to reliably switch-in. However, its role as a support Pokemon is what truly pushes it to the next level. Decent typing, ability to reliably set Snow, and access to Aurora Veil in tandem with an excellent speed tier all set it apart from Abomasnow. As mentioned previously, between Aurora Veil and Snow, it also bolsters Pokemon like Sandslash-A, Frosmoth, and Beartic to what some believe is an unhealthy level. Snow teams are also extremely customizable; full snow teams have the luxury of running three great snow abusers who can collectively overwhelm checks like Milotic and Arcanine, while semi-snow teams can allow for a balance/BO approach in tandem with other offensive Pokemon, which can make it hard to account for the playstyle as a whole.

Conversely, some believe that Ninetales-A can be extremely underwhelming at times. Firstly, it requires Icy Rock to be most effective in its support role; this renders it vulnerable to Stealth Rock, which can limit the number of times it can come in during a game, and even when it does, its underwhelming bulk makes it hard to switch in to hits reliably. Not to mention, with Light Clay being banned, Aurora Veil turns are limited, which can sometimes limit setup opportunities. While Nasty Plot sets can opt to run Heavy-Duty Boots, they struggle with severe 4MSS, as two of the tier's best Pokemon in Rotom-H and Sandslash-A resist Ninetales-A's STAB combination naturally, forcing it to run Tera Blast sets to deal with them effectively. However, this leads to an awkward situation of having to pick between Blizzard, Freeze-Dry, and Tera Blast, with dropping each move having its own consequences. While there aren't many downsides, its flaws usually all come together and can make it easier to play around.

All in all, Ninetales-A has its fair share of pros and cons; therefore, we have opted for a suspect test and let you, the community, determine whether the snow fox stays or goes. The ball is in your court now. Please share your thoughts on Ninetales-A's role in the metagame, and if you think it should be banned or not!

• To participate in this suspect test, create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in PU before this suspect test went up, or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played PU before the test, full stop.)
• At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
• You have to reach a COIL of 2800 to get reqs. For reference, the B-value for this suspect will be 7.
• This suspect test deadline will be on Friday, November 7th, 2025 at 11:59 PM (GMT -4).
• Check HERE to see if you have reqs.
• A simple majority (>50%) is required to ban Ninetales-A.
• If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM me or asa or post here!

minimum games required

GXE = Games Required
71 = 343
72 = 173
73 = 116
74 = 88
75 = 71
76 = 59
77 = 51
78 = 45
79 = 41
80 = 37
81 = 34
82 = 31
83 = 29
84 = 27
85 = 25

---

Regarding the Tiering Contributor badge

• TC is awarded to those with 10 tiering-related votes across all tiers or 4 tiering-related votes in PU suspect tests.

If you have achieved the above threshold, feel free to PM asa or I with the links to your votes so we can process your request.

 

[Vulpix03]

Not gunna write a huge post, but to summarize my thoughts - snow is mid.

Ninetales as a standalone is pretty good. Nasty plot sets with w/e tera blast you want can be super threatening but not broken by any means.
It's a healthy fast set up sweeper that provides offense a great check to a lot of threats.

You can add a sandslash to the team and it's fine, but unless you're making nintales icy rock then slash will never be that threatening and if you're icy rock then you're hurting ninetales which is a more threatening mon than slash. Ninetales + Sandslash is also pretty restricting in how you can finish the team.

You can also go full hail with frosmoth beartic etc. Those teams are just straight up ass imo. Mu fishes that have no consistency and are usually reliant on frosmoth to win.

Don't ban a healthy mon that enables a mid playstyle

 

[Dutchum]

I managed to get reqs for this suspect test, but I have to admit it was a bit tougher than usual — I normally only drop one or two games during suspect runs, so this one took me a bit more effort overall.

Throughout my laddering, I faced quite a few Ninetales-Alola, and I never really felt that it was individually overwhelming. On its own, it’s a decent Pokémon with solid utility, but not something that feels broken or unmanageable. What truly defines it is the support it provides through Snow and Aurora Veil, which heavily boost Alolan Sandslash and Frosmoth. These two Pokémon clearly benefit from Ninetales-A’s presence, but even with that boost, they didn’t strike me as particularly overpowered. There are still plenty of viable and consistent checks to this archetype, such as Milotic, which can handle most Snow abusers without too much difficulty.

In my experience, Snow as a playstyle can be annoying to face but isn’t dominant enough to feel unhealthy. Ninetales-A’s presence helps make it viable, but it doesn’t push it over the top. As an individual Pokémon, it has clear flaws — Stealth Rock weakness, limited Aurora Veil turns, and underwhelming bulk — that keep it in check.

Overall, I believe Ninetales-Alola is a balanced and healthy presence in the metagame. It supports a unique archetype without making it oppressive, and there is sufficient counterplay available to deal with both it and the Pokémon it enables.

Btw, team I used : https://pokepast.es/bcac5a53dda36a0a

 

[LOOR]

I’m not going to get reqs nor am i going to make a lengthy post explaining myself. Alola Tales alone is fine, offers a lot of unique things to the tier that are quite nice to have. Snow itself seems a bit overblown but obivously kinda of obnoxious with how we are accustomed to building PU. Not that the council is going to suddenly change the suspect test but i implore some kind of immediate discussion on Icy Rock after this test if tales makes it through. i’m not postive if hail is broken or not, because i’m honestly not sure, but even the data suggests the problematic element is snow itself and not tales. Frosmoth scoring similar to tales + increased “complaints” of stuff like the bear and slash on the playstyle should be indicative on what this suspect is actually about.

 

[Excal]

grabbed reqs and i'm torn. on the one hand, tales is not broken standalone and snow has interesting meta implications, like easing teambuilding wrt fitting speed control, nerfing defensive pokemon like bulky espeon, florges, and arcanine by reducing their healing, etc. on the other hand, it is unclear whether many aspects of snow's significantly increased presence are positive or negative influences overall.

there are some very nice attributes to ninetales, like offensively checking pawmot, pressuring stagnant bulky cores with smart moveset choices, and providing centralization in a metagame where there's an abundance of threats and status to cover that are not feasible to address without ugly concessions.

however, while im not sure about how problematic alolaslash is under icy rock snow, i am absolutely sure that frosmoth is extremely broken in this tier. ninetales exacerbates this; however, frosmoth has always been broken but obfuscated until ninetales has exposed just how ridiculous it is. banning ninetales would certainly nerf frosmoth; however, i do not think it solves the issue at all. frosmoth is still busted and needs to go regardless of this suspect.

i'm leaning slightly towards dnb but not really committal right now. i think snow probably deserves more time to be around after getting rid of an egregiously broken pokemon and abuser in frosmoth to really get an understanding of how it impacts the metagame, because we have not had enough time to really figure it out.