Metagame np: SV DOU Stage 12: Under the Bridge | Archaludon remains legal

[Yoda2798]

I don't ever wanna feel like I did that day
But take me to the place I love, take me all the way
I don't ever wanna feel like I did that day
But take me to the place I love take me all the way
​

Following the responses to the most recent tiering survey, Archaludon has emerged as the next DOU suspect test target!

At first glance, Archaludon doesn't appear to overwhelming: despite a pseudo-legendary level BST, its stat spread wasting a lot in Attack while leaving a middling Speed and lackluster Special Defense (which it would love to take advantage of with its excellent Dragon/Steel defensive typing) leave something to be desired. However, Archaludon has two important aces (one unique, one almost unique) up its sleeve which take it up a level. The first of these is Electro Shot, a 130 BP Electric-type attack similar to Meteor Beam where the first turn is spent raising Special Attack before attacking on the second turn, with the massive plus of not requiring a charge turn while in rain. With weather support readily available from Pelipper or Rain Dance Tornadus (who can also set Tailwind to help with Archaludon's middling Speed), this provides Archaludon a powerful coverage attack which simultaneously makes it more threatening, and as this can be used multiple times unlike Meteor Beam which requires a one-off Power Herb, provides especially strong snowball potential. Electro Shot's powerful boosting potential also helps allow Archaludon to invest defensively, usually opting for Assault Vest and a Specially Defensive EV spread to patch up its vulnerability on the special side.

Archaludon's true trump card, though, is its ability Stamina. This ability boosts Archaludon's Defense by one stage whenever damaged by attack, with multi-attacks activating multiple times (meaning a Beat Up user like Whimsicott may be paired to quickly rack up boosts, though this is less common), but also notably activating even on being hit by special attacks as well. In practice, this means Archaludon finds ample opportunity to begin racking up boosts, as with its Dragon/Steel typing providing a number of resists, moves like Fake Out or U-Turn, Bleakwind Storm from Tornadus, or any STAB moves from Ogerpon-Wellspring or Rillaboom will do minimal damage while in fact benefiting Archaludon. Quite importantly, Archaludon can switch into any of these attacks to get the boost train rolling before it even selects a move, and this is often the best way to start gaining boosts as once Archaludon is on the field the opponent should avoid unnecessarily targeting it or risk playing into its hand. Even beyond the aforementioned attacks one must be careful about choosing to attack Archaludon, doing so thoughtlessly can easily let it run away with the game, as attacking with for example a neutral physical attacker like Incineroar or Kingambit may do decent damage on the first hit, but will be unable to break through with subsequent attacks while boosting Archaludon up. As if steadily turning Archaludon into an untouchable monster, Stamina boosts also pair perfectly with Body Press, letting them function as an offensive boost as well. On top of dealing with pesky Steel-types like Kingambit that resist Archaludon's STABs, Body Press quickly becomes a nuke after racking up a few defensive boosts, capable of KOing most non-resists. Electro Shot is nice, but often Body Press alone is strong enough alone for Archaludon to get by relying on that as its damage output, while also letting it get away with investing in Special Defense.

However, Archaludon is not without its flaws. Even with Assault Vest and Special Defense investment, Archaludon is still quite vulnerable to ever-present threat Landorus-I, often being forced to Tera to remove its Ground weakness (and generally being quite tera hungry as a result). Other strong special attackers like Chi-Yu, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, or Regidrago can also threaten Archaludon, though not as strongly as Landorus, while also lacking its helpful Body Press/Electro Shot resists. On the physical side, Chien-Pao can pierce through Archaludon's Defense boosts using a super effective Sacred Sword, and while Tera can remove this weakness, usually a Terrastallized Archaludon will be weak instead to Chien-Pao's Ice-type attacks as a result. Amoonguss resists both Body Press and Electro Shot while being able to tank Archaludon's other attacks as well and can Spore it in return (or Clear Smog a Terrastallized Archaludon, though this does still leave it at +1 Defense), though Safety Goggles or Tera Grass variants can make it unreliable. Gholdengo is immune to Body Press and resists Archaludon's other attacks outside of Electro Shot, often being able to Nasty Plot up on it. In general, using a Tera type which resists/is immune to Body Press can be effective against Archaludon as this is usually its primary damage source, particularly so for Iron Defense sets. Archaludon's reliance on rain also holds it back, either needing to find time to manually set with Tornadus, or use an otherwise inferior choice in Pelipper to get rain on switch-in; overriding rain to prevent Electro Shot or force Archaludon to lock into a 2-turn execution can also cripple it. Archaludon's biggest flaw, however, is its reliance on boosts to be effective, without which it is damage output is quite non-threatening, and it can still be hurt by a well-timed physical attack. Avoid letting Archaludon acquire too many boosts, particularly from needlessly attacking into it, and it is much easier to deal with.

As usual, 60% of the vote must be in favor to ban Archaludon.

Important: For this suspect, there will be two ways to qualify. The first is the typical laddering period, where players must reach the minimum GXE. The second is by winning a live suspect tournament, to be held in the Smogon Doubles Room. You may compete in the suspect tournament on any account, and will need to post proof of you winning the suspect tournament on the voter ID thread.

There will be two live suspect tournaments:

Suspect Tournament Times
Saturday, 11th May at 12:00 PM Eastern time (GMT-4)
Sunday, 12th May at 4:00 PM Eastern time (GMT-4)

The laddering period will last for a total of nine days.

Laddering Period
Start: Friday, 10th May at 8:00 PM Eastern time (GMT-4)
End: Sunday, 19th May Wednesday 22nd May at 8:00 PM Eastern time (GMT-4)

All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! Doubles OU ladder on a fresh alt with the prefix DOUAR [name]. For example, I might register "DOUAR Yoda” to ladder with. You must follow this format to qualify.

To qualify to vote, you must achieve a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may subtract 1 game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. As always, needing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE is fine.

Minimum Games Needed

GXE	minimum games
80	50
80.2	49
80.4	48
80.6	47
80.8	46
81	45
81.2	44
81.4	43
81.6	42
81.8	41
82	40
82.2	39
82.4	38
82.6	37
82.8	36
83	35
83.2	34
83.4	33
83.6	32
83.8	31
84	30

Archaludon will be legal during this suspect.

 

[SuckyLucky]

ban bridge

 

[Xrn]

I do not like using or fighting archaludon but it's pretty clearly not broken to me

It's a strong snowball mon that requires significant support to unlock it's potential (pelipper/rain dance torn, healing, often redirection). Disrupting Archaludon's setup is not "free" but not too difficult, the support it demands means you have at least a couple turns before it's an omegathreat.
- your own weather can prevent it from boosting while also doing big damage with Blizzard spam or Sun boosted Fire moves
- simply overwhelming them with high damage output can be a viable answer with HO teams
- moves like Spore/Whirlwind/Encore can just ruin their board, forcing them to play from behind
- you can use their setup turns and setup something of your own to try matching it

I don't find it to be too overbearing in game or in the builder, just another team style you need to respect. If anything I find abusing Arch's setup turns and preventing the snowball to be an interesting dynamic. Preying on careless or miscalculated play is much healthier than outspeeding and outdamaging the entire tier like our last two suspects. Of course that's not the only type of Pokemon that's banworthy, but I don't find it to be as unreasonable to account for as an Annihilape or Dondozo either. If it gets banned I definitely won't be heartbroken, though I'm pretty convinced it's not broken.

Don't think any Pokemon in the tier is worth banning (don't ban Tornadus lol) or unbanning (unless it means banning Commander), people just load cringe teams which makes the tier seem worse than it is, goodstuffs games are really fun. Good time to test Archaludon though since it's been talked about for a while and we're about to be in-between major tours so props for that. Only disappointed to see evasion abilities remain legal seeing as they're uncompetitive, add nothing interesting to the tier, have been a ladder nuisance forever and recently started appearing in tour. @ derby players abuse those ty

 

[bagel]

Congrats to ihbst for winning the first suspect tour!
finals replay, semi's 1 replay (I lost the other semi's replay whoops)

Bracket

There will be another suspect tour tomorrow, 5/11 at 4pm -4.

 

[sundays]

This skill-less team is the biggest reason for me feeling pro-archa ban atm. It's a pretty popular team. Double fake support allows espathra to set a cm and get atleast at +2 speed boost easily in most games. This is all it needs to baton pass to archaludon or in a few cases lando-i to steamroll the entire game if there's no haze/roar/whirlwind user on the opposite team.
Once tha baton is passed to archaludon it becomes stupidly difficult to take down due to the reasons mentioned in the op + passed stats. It more or less gets a free av if u have grassy seed espathra after the pass. It can either be the leftovers set which benifits hugely from terrain too or it can be the AV set which can take a few extra special hits before going down (which is more than enough time for this bridge-dino to wear most of your team down unless u seamlessly play around it, which is yet another problem). playing around such is largely inconsistent coz the people who use this team (including me) seem to always click the move that makes the least sense so it's tough to outmaneuver. If archaludon stays legal even after this suspect, I'd urge the council peeps to look into the ostrich onc3 (saying this sounds stupid somehow coz the mon feels weak on paper) since it is basically the puppeteer of this team.

Well basically what I mean to say is structures like this team feel heavily uncompetitive and rely a lot over getting the correct 50-50s to secure a win that remind me of the time when deo-a was legal and everyone was spamming that one tyo sun psyspam tr.

tldr; https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2113339253?p2 and many more

This was my first time writing anything like this so excuse me if it feels unprofessional or lacking, thanks.

 

[bagel]

Congrats to Penter for winning the 2nd Suspect tour! Just because they qualified for reqs twice doesn't mean they get 2 votes though.

finals replay is the file attached, semifinals 1 replay, once again missing a semifinals replay.

Bracket

 

[MAB123]

oh my god finally this god of a fucking bridge is being dealt with
i like using i myself, but even i would vote for ban if i voted.

 

[Yoda2798]

Due to the period of time earlier this week where PS was down, the laddering period for the suspect test will now be extended to Wednesday 22nd May at 8:00 PM Eastern time (GMT-4).

 

[bagel]

I will be voting Do Not Ban for Archaludon. While it can certainly be an annoying Pokemon to deal with, Archaludon has a lot of drawbacks that keep it from being too overbearing either offensively or defensively. It's low special bulk (very important because now it has to invest in Special Defense to stick around rather than make its offenses more threatening) and natural weaknesses to key offensive Pokemon in the tier mean that it can often be blitzed down by strong attackers and/or forced to Tera, which can be further abused if played well. Offensively it really relies on Electro Shot boosts in Rain (or other inconsistent strats like beat up for Stamina Boosts) to be truly threatening, which obviously can be disrupted by your own weather and has a limited time, while also needing a couple turns to get going. I've also seen sets that manually use Iron Defense but I think those are simply bad.

Archaludon is definitely a Pokemon that can start to steamroll if given enough space, but there are plenty other threats that can threaten something similar (Diancie and Gholdengo are interesting comparisons as bulky mons that can set up (kinda) and often rely on additional field conditions to truly thrive). Archaludon just requires a different approach that took a little while for the playerbase to figure out (watching later rounds of OSDT in particular Archaludon hasn't stood out as problematic).

Xrn's post is great and I agree with everything he said, particularly his point about Archaludon preying on careless or miscalculated play more than anything else. Well-constructed teams using good pokemon shouldn't have a huge problem handling Archaludon compared to any other threat in the metagame that you have to consider when building and playing.

 

[Penter]

From what I can tell, there arent too many people who find archaludon busted in the typical sense (tho i would hear out any arguments if there were), and its certainly not on the same level as flutter or deo. I think the best arguments in in favor of ban are how it impacts the meta and teambuilding as a whole. For one, the versatility of archa means you have few consistent options in the builder to deal with it. theres more options than just lando but its high usage is llikely due to it being mandatory on most teams (otherwise u autolose to some archa sets). Archa has brought back weather wars too, which I dont mind too much personally but i expect to get tired of it eventually. I think this also makes prankster twind even better, as if it really needed that, considering its the most reliable way to run weather. These small things all add up, to where it does kinda feel difficult to build without having some autolose matchup, so games feel kinda cheesy rn. It's true that its not really *that* much stronger than other threats on its own Archa is just exacerbating a lot of problems with the meta rn.

that said, the meta does still feel like it has room to grow and im thinking archa getting suspected is a bit premature.

im sure theres stuff im missing but since i hadnt seen much talk from those leaning towards ban I thought I'd give my interpretation. I'm leaning ban because archa is annoying but ill probably go back and forth a few more times lol.

also idbp is def a legit set replay (i played this so poorly too)

 

[eragon]

watch me go on a tangent for 15 minutes

General consensus on this mon from established players seems to be DNB, which I don't fundamentally disagree with. While strong, annoying, and very slightly centralizing, my feeling is that the counterplay to this mon is just barely sufficient to keep it in check. The mons that help offensively check Arch are by themselves fundamentally strong (like Lando I) and are not difficult enough to fit on teams to truly constrain the teambuilder in the way we've seen other mons this gen do it (Deo-A, Flutter, etc). In this regard, Archaludon pretty clearly falls short of being broken- it's just not quite at that same level of centralization or raw power. However, while I agree with the final conclusion I (and others in this thread) have reached here, I don't think this comes even remotely close to telling the full story of why this mon is being suspected.


There's another angle here which I think comes a lot closer to the actual root cause of the problems people actually have with Archaludon. Rather than see this mon as another Deo-A or Flutter, I'm more inclined to view Archaludon as being a less overtly broken member of the dumb mechanic crowd that includes mons like Basc-M or Annihilape (this might seem like an odd comparison for a significantly less broken Pokemon but hear me out here). Ape and Basc both heavily capitalized off of mechanics that heavily punish literally just playing the game, with rage fist and last respects gaining absurd power just because you bothered to click an attacking move or dared to take a ko. Although added two generations previously in gen 7, stamina is surprisingly similar in the way it capitalizes passively off of basic gameplay. In my opinion, stamina (especially with body press) is inherently close to being uncompetitive. On Mudsdale (skull emoji), this wasn't an issue since the mon was pretty obviously terrible in every other respect with a lackluster defensive typing. However, with Archaludon, we have a 600 bst behemoth wielding this ability and I think it comes quite close to pushing the boundaries of healthy gameplay. Fundamentally, I think this ability on a mon with these kind of stats was destined to receive some form of attention at some point- the floor is just too high to avoid it.

However, there are a few key differences with Archaludon as opposed to the other two that ultimately prevent it from attaining the same banworthy status imo. The first of these has to do with the way Stamina works as opposed to the others. Contrary to the gen 9 stupidity of rage fist and last respects that allows these moves base power to stay heightened after a switch, Stamina just gives stat boosts. Forcing out this pokemon isn't too difficult if you catch it early before it really can stack boosts, and when you do so, it loses all its progress in a way that Annihilape (Basc plays very differently) never had to fear. Additionally, body press isn't STAB boosted, which really prevents it from doing the absurd damage early on that the other two could. Due to this lack of STAB, options like Kommo-o are usually just better at committing solely to IronPress sets, meaning Arch resorts to sets like AV/3 attack protect that just don't snowball to the same capacity most of the time.

Finally, this mon's biggest failing in comparison to Basc/Ape is the (so far) inability to produce widespread teams that totally commit to abusing itself. While the Espathra team (built by Schister) Sundays mentioned

does remind one of the Rabsca days of old, this team primarily stands by itself as the only one that's really effectively seen success in this way, whereas both of the others had many, many teams revolving around them. While you could argue some of the rain teams we've seen also lean this way, it's really not the same level of commitment in my opinion. If we'd been seeing more teams in this vein, I'd be much more likely to come down on the ban side but with what I've currently seen there's not quite enough to convince me. I still think this Pokemon has the potential to reach this level but it's not quite there and I think a ban vote might be a little premature at the moment. While I am on the fence here, I am leaning towards voting DO NOT BAN.

 

[Schister]

This skill-less team is the biggest reason for me feeling pro-archa ban atm. It's a pretty popular team. Double fake support allows espathra to set a cm and get atleast at +2 speed boost easily in most games. This is all it needs to baton pass to archaludon or in a few cases lando-i to steamroll the entire game if there's no haze/roar/whirlwind user on the opposite team.
Once tha baton is passed to archaludon it becomes stupidly difficult to take down due to the reasons mentioned in the op + passed stats. It more or less gets a free av if u have grassy seed espathra after the pass. It can either be the leftovers set which benifits hugely from terrain too or it can be the AV set which can take a few extra special hits before going down (which is more than enough time for this bridge-dino to wear most of your team down unless u seamlessly play around it, which is yet another problem). playing around such is largely inconsistent coz the people who use this team (including me) seem to always click the move that makes the least sense so it's tough to outmaneuver. If archaludon stays legal even after this suspect, I'd urge the council peeps to look into the ostrich onc3 (saying this sounds stupid somehow coz the mon feels weak on paper) since it is basically the puppeteer of this team.

Well basically what I mean to say is structures like this team feel heavily uncompetitive and rely a lot over getting the correct 50-50s to secure a win that remind me of the time when deo-a was legal and everyone was spamming that one tyo sun psyspam tr.

tldr; https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2113339253?p2 and many more

This was my first time writing anything like this so excuse me if it feels unprofessional or lacking, thanks.

watch me go on a tangent for 15 minutes

General consensus on this mon from established players seems to be DNB, which I don't fundamentally disagree with. While strong, annoying, and very slightly centralizing, my feeling is that the counterplay to this mon is just barely sufficient to keep it in check. The mons that help offensively check Arch are by themselves fundamentally strong (like Lando I) and are not difficult enough to fit on teams to truly constrain the teambuilder in the way we've seen other mons this gen do it (Deo-A, Flutter, etc). In this regard, Archaludon pretty clearly falls short of being broken- it's just not quite at that same level of centralization or raw power. However, while I agree with the final conclusion I (and others in this thread) have reached here, I don't think this comes even remotely close to telling the full story of why this mon is being suspected.


There's another angle here which I think comes a lot closer to the actual root cause of the problems people actually have with Archaludon. Rather than see this mon as another Deo-A or Flutter, I'm more inclined to view Archaludon as being a less overtly broken member of the dumb mechanic crowd that includes mons like Basc-M or Annihilape (this might seem like an odd comparison for a significantly less broken Pokemon but hear me out here). Ape and Basc both heavily capitalized off of mechanics that heavily punish literally just playing the game, with rage fist and last respects gaining absurd power just because you bothered to click an attacking move or dared to take a ko. Although added two generations previously in gen 7, stamina is surprisingly similar in the way it capitalizes passively off of basic gameplay. In my opinion, stamina (especially with body press) is inherently close to being uncompetitive. On Mudsdale (skull emoji), this wasn't an issue since the mon was pretty obviously terrible in every other respect with a lackluster defensive typing. However, with Archaludon, we have a 600 bst behemoth wielding this ability and I think it comes quite close to pushing the boundaries of healthy gameplay. Fundamentally, I think this ability on a mon with these kind of stats was destined to receive some form of attention at some point- the floor is just too high to avoid it.

However, there are a few key differences with Archaludon as opposed to the other two that ultimately prevent it from attaining the same banworthy status imo. The first of these has to do with the way Stamina works as opposed to the others. Contrary to the gen 9 stupidity of rage fist and last respects that allows these moves base power to stay heightened after a switch, Stamina just gives stat boosts. Forcing out this pokemon isn't too difficult if you catch it early before it really can stack boosts, and when you do so, it loses all its progress in a way that Annihilape (Basc plays very differently) never had to fear. Additionally, body press isn't STAB boosted, which really prevents it from doing the absurd damage early on that the other two could. Due to this lack of STAB, options like Kommo-o are usually just better at committing solely to IronPress sets, meaning Arch resorts to sets like AV/3 attack protect that just don't snowball to the same capacity most of the time.

Finally, this mon's biggest failing in comparison to Basc/Ape is the (so far) inability to produce widespread teams that totally commit to abusing itself. While the Espathra team (built by Schister) Sundays mentioned

does remind one of the Rabsca days of old, this team primarily stands by itself as the only one that's really effectively seen success in this way, whereas both of the others had many, many teams revolving around them. While you could argue some of the rain teams we've seen also lean this way, it's really not the same level of commitment in my opinion. If we'd been seeing more teams in this vein, I'd be much more likely to come down on the ban side but with what I've currently seen there's not quite enough to convince me. I still think this Pokemon has the potential to reach this level but it's not quite there and I think a ban vote might be a little premature at the moment. While I am on the fence here, I am leaning towards voting DO NOT BAN.

Seeing as the team I built has been brought up multiple times in this thread as well as in discord spaces I have frequented it seems fit for me to weigh in on the topic of an Archaludon ban. This is perhaps the most split I have been on a ban all generationdue to the particular circumstances of this pokemon's impact on the metagame at large. In short: I do not believe Archaludon is particularly metagame warping at present, many of the things that can beat or neutralize it are already viable for other reasons, however this fact does not prevent it from being one of the more uncompetitive pokemon in the tier in my opinion. There is also a sizeable impact in builder that archaludon has for anti-meta or lesser played strategies that leads to it punishing more deviant builders quite significantly, something I see reflected in its ladder use rate and the rhetoric coming from those that I see frequenting mid-low ladder that often find themselves punished for not conforming to the top of the metagame when they face archaludon in a way that isn't quite true of other meta threats.

I have seen a somewhat common sentiment that the espathra team is the primary thing making archaludon look broken/uncompetitive and that other teams have failed to truly push archaludon as a centralizing win condition. I find this odd as not only is the very first sample team listed for the tier archaludon + 5 supportive pokemon but multiple variations of rain teams such as ratpacker psyrain have used archaludon as a win condition to great effect. Personally I believe that the espathra team is nowhere near the limits of how archaludon can be abused, but given the way the mon plays I do not believe there is significant interest from too many top players to actually push the mon to its limits. Example:

I do not like using or fighting archaludon but it's pretty clearly not broken to me

However we cannot ban a pokemon on theoretical usage, that would just be absurd, and as such I do not currently believe that Archaludon is banworthy. I know that sentence will disappoint some of my comrades, but as the metagame stands archaludon is not providing significant enough strain upon tournament play to warrant a ban in my eyes, though future developments and efforts could very easily push it to that level. Archaludon is in my eyes the least developed tier 2 pokemon in the format and I would be remiss to fail to mention that it could very well cause problems in the future should the metagame shift around developments the benefit (such as ting lu rising in popularity lately).

If I were just a ladder player, however, I would probably be vehemently in favor of an archaludon ban. As a very deviant builder myself that likes toying with anti-meta ideas, Archaludon is one of the most restrictive pokemon I have seen all generation to that side of the team builder. Archaludon forces a certain level of raw power or disruptive utility to either break it or neutralize it in a way that simply cannot be replicated by any other pokemon, and it very often forces difficult board positions for its opponents as board states usually force specific lines to be taken in battle that can be exploited by certain supports for arch in a way that is all too often worse than a 50/50 for its opponents. Additionally, archaludon's fantastic typing and great physical bulk let it be an extraordinary blanket switch-in on physical attacks in the tier grabbing immediate pressure and momentum into a great many board states not too dissimilar to how gholdengo exploits its typing to find entry points to click nasty plot on. Archaludon is also quite possibly the best tera abuser in the format, given how the click of a button can completely flip available counterplay to it and be the starting point for its iconic snowballing to win games. Given all this, in my eyes those who call for a ban on the pokemon are perfectly reasonable in doing so even if I personally think that archaludon isn't quite at that level yet and can stand for further development in the metagame before it is truly banworthy.

TL:DR;
Leaning Do Not Ban due to the current lack of development and pressure upon top level play. though I believe that Archaludon could very easily become problematic in the future, and even currently constrains certain aspects of the tier.

 

[Trelloant]

Archaludon is one of the most restrictive pokemon I have seen all generative to that side of the team builder. Archaludon forces a certain level of raw power or disruptive utility to either break it or neutralize it in a way that simply cannot be replicated by any other pokemon, and it very often forces difficult board positions for its opponents as board states usually force specific lines to be taken in battle that can be exploited by certain supports for arch in a way that is all to often worse than a 50/50 for its opponents.

I really agree with this statement. I think its not broken and unbeatable but its just the type of mon that you need 1.5 answers when building a team or you will auto lose. It really sucks in the builder and and while not over centralizing its not a fun pokemon to have exist. I was auto ban before the suspect honestly and frankly I might still vote ban, bc its a really interesting case of would DOU be a more entertaining and creative tier without this thing? Yes imo. We have two steels that are really viable within the tier and i wouldnt mind some forced diversity.

In conclusion I think I want to see a suspect where archaludon is not legal. I want to see the metagame without this gaudy monstrosity.

 

[Yoda2798]

To begin with, I'll analyse the replays from Top 16 of OSDT onwards featuring Archaludon:

vs
Top 8: Actuarily vs ratpacker (Game 2)​

Actuarily's Archaludon is unfortunately crit by Earthquake, which it otherwise would have tanked. However, it is still worth noting that afterwards, with Kingdra being knocked out already as well, Actuarily forfeits a 4v6. This is usually quite early to forfeit, but as the team is built around supporting Archaludon (and to a lesser extent Kingdra), losing its focal point is quite decisive even with all the remaining Pokemon left, which is a big drawback of building around Archaludon that the team often lives or dies by how well it performs.

vs
Top 8: sempra vs Despacito87 (Game 2)​

This game it's the Archaludon which gets a bit lucky, dodging Glimmora's Meteor Beam, though that's actually not too significant as it would only take ~30% minus Grassy Terrain healing, and the Stamina boost would offset some damage from Ogerpon's Ivy Cudgel on the following turn as well. Anyways, in this game Despacito87 decides to use Tera Fairy on Archaludon to deal with the threat of Regidrago, as not only can it otherwise hit Archaludon hard as a strong special attacker, but their team also has no Dragon-type resists to switch into, as Archaludon is their Steel-type but still only neutral. This does work out well for the Archaludon staying healthy that turn, which could and maybe should have KOed the Regidrago in return, but the big problem with this is seen later, where the Terrastallized Archaludon's newfound weakness to Gholdengo's Make It Rain proves fatal. This is often the case where Archaludon requires Tera to deal with certain threats, but even afterwards can still struggle due to new weaknesses gained and the loss of the great defensive profile its base typing provides.

vs
Top 16: EternalSnowman vs Flying Beagle (Game 2)​

Archaludon manages to finally finish off the Iron Crown, though its teammates were too depleted by that point for it to do much afterwards, so there's not much to be said about Archaludon from this game.

vs
Top 16: EternalSnowman vs Flying Beagle (Game 3)​

This game from the same set also features the same Archaludon team from Flying Beagle, but this time the bridge gets more of a chance to shine. A typical play is made switching Archaludon in against a weaker hit (Kingambit's Assurance) it can tank to get Stamina going, throwing in the optional side U-Turn for an extra boost on top. Along with Psychic Seed activating, this puts Archaludon in a threatening position immediately after switching-in, and it takes advantage to start throwing out +2 Body Presses right away. However, even with those boosts Archaludon fails to pick up KOs, dealing rather unimpressive damage to Ninetales-Alola and Articuno with Body Press (which to be fair they did have the Defense boost from Snow, but it still would have been underwhelming damage without that). The more notable effect of Snow, however, is it denying Archaludon the option to effectively use Electro Shot, which as you can see from the replay severely limits Archaludon's offensive capability. As a result, Archaludon is worn down and eventually knocked out by several special attacks, and while it did manage to acquire boosts and sit on the field for a while, it was unable to capitalise on that offensively. Weather in particular is obviously quite strong against Archaludon for limiting its ability to use Electro Shot, but setting that aside I think that game is a great example of how Archaludon is still manageable even with boosts, and how it can often struggle with being fairly passive even with a boosted Body Press at its disposal.

vs
Top 16: Ann vs sempra (Game 3)​

This game showcases a different Archaludon set from the other games, with Ann using an Iron Defense variant here. Now, the situation when Archaludon hits the field is a bit of a mixed bag, as it is a 2v3, but two of its opponents are physical attackers and it does get to set up an Iron Defense while at full health. Again, Archaludon's underwhelming damage output is displayed, as it tragically fails to knock out Regidrago from just over half with +2 Body Press, which with the Draco Meteor miss could have let it win the game. In reality, even with the miss Archaludon still loses the game, as supporting Regidrago to land two good special attacks on Archaludon is sufficient to deal with it despite all the Defense boosts built up. You might say that this is fine because Archaludon only got an opportunity at the end of the game, but that's also part of the problem: Archaludon being too slow, with needing to set up Iron Defense and relying on Body Press for damage (which even at +2 is nothing special), is exactly why it was kept in the back all game. If sempra had reached the endgame without Regidrago, then things could potentially have looked quite differently, with Archaludon being difficult to break through after an Iron Defense, but sempra was smart and preserved the Regidrago to be able to handle it, which makes a massive difference in being able to deal with Archaludon effectively.


If you're thinking that's not a lot of games then you'd be correct, from Top 16 of OSDT onwards Archaludon has only 5/60 uses (~8.3% usage), while in Top 32 it had 6/74 uses (8.1% usage), which is absurdly low for a supposedly banworthy Pokemon. As I've explained above, and others have also already mentioned, Archaludon struggles from several flaws, including requiring a significant amount of support and often dedicating Tera to it, underwhelming damage output, and vulnerability on the specially defensive side. Yes, Archaludon does have the potential to run away with a game, but there's a lot of hurdles it needs to overcome for that to happen, and when it doesn't as is usually the case, Archaludon is not as effective as other Pokemon that require less support and have more immediate and consistent value. Archaludon is a Pokemon that can snowball out of control if not played against correctly, but over time I think people have gotten better about avoiding playing into its hands. Also, people are using more special attackers these days which can hit Archaludon where it hurts, compared to a time in the past where many teams were Landorus-I + physical attackers, so Archaludon with a Tera to absorb Earth Power had an immense advantage on matchup, but that's not really the case anymore. It should come as no surprise that I will be voting Do Not Ban on Archaludon for the reasons above.

 

[zee]

Joining the majority sentiment here, but I will be voting Do Not Ban for Archaludon. The Electro Shot offensive sets can certainly snowball to victory if the engine is given room, but I stress that it really does feel like Archaludon needs an entire engine to get going. Rain support is the obvious, but its middling speed tier means it also really enjoys Tailwind as well as Fake Out and Follow Me support to shield it from faster threats like Landorus. To draw a comparison, this really isn't much different from the likes of NP Gholdengo and SD Kingambit, some of the other setup steels in the tier. If anything, Archaludon's primary setup condition feels shakier to me than the aforementioned options because of how contested weather is in the tier at the moment - you could very reasonably expect to run into Sun or Snow, and Sand is rare but far from unviable.

I also want to add that it is far from just Landorus that can be considered a threat to this Pokemon. While it is one of the only things that can threaten it with an OHKO on its own, Chi-Yu Sun, Regidrago, NP Gholdengo, Ursaluna & Ursaluna-BM, and Chien-Pao are just some of the Pokemon I have used to threaten Archaludon as well as the ones gunning me down when I find myself using the bridge.

And just to briefly comment on the Iron Defense set: it's a fine Iron Defense user, but the ceiling for these Pokemon in general is only so high due to the nature of their coverage options (Fighting + one coverage move is far from perfect) and reliance on setup (we're starting out with an 80 BP nonstab attack here). It is not much better than the likes of Kommo-o or Registeel from previous metagame trends in my eyes.

Solid Pokemon but has enough flaws that I don't think it needs the boot. If people think the Espathra team is an issue we should probably be talking about Baton Pass instead of the bridge tbh.

 

[SMB]

The least popular set for archaludon seems to be iron defense, and probably hasn't gotten enough talk, however for me this is the best and most splashable set as it doesn't rely so much on other pokemon to do its job and I've tried it since day 1. It's basically an improved kommo-o, because, although it does less damage, it doesn't need to take as many turns to get boosts, sometimes with a simple switch it can be at +2 defense and start pressuring the opponent, plus it fits snarl to fix its low special defense and protect to heal with leftovers. Protect is really what makes the difference with the AV electro shot set, as it doesn't lose as much momentum as the rain set, and allows its partner to put pressure on the slots that threaten him in a better way.

Anyway; sacred sword, landorus or really any good special attacker like chi-yu, gholdengo or ursaluna, phazer moves, encore, tera ghost, your own weather... all of these are solid checks for one set or another and easy to fit on a team.

Just to put an example, my sample team which consist on 6 physical attackers which means it doesn't have any of the best pokemon to remove a def boosted archaludon, has enough tools to deal with both sets, in the form of tera ghost whirlwind ting-lu, sacred sword, encore, snarl and its own iron defense pokemon.

I am of the opinion that archaludon did not even need a suspect test. Although it can be annoying to deal with on certain occasions, there are enough checks for it, and very varied. We should probably start thinking on suspect things down.

 

[Actuarily]

If you had asked me over a month ago, I probably would have been leaning ban on Archaludon, since at the time it felt like the only checks were like Landorus/Ursalunas or Iron Hands before Archaludon gets defense boosts. Even then, Archaludon can of course Tera to beat these matchups, but then forcing an early Tera on their wincon can often be an advatangeous position for Archaludon’s opponent.

But since then there’s been proven a lot of other different ways to beat Archaludon, such as having opposing weather (hail especially) to prevent it from getting off ElectroShots, setting up a strong special attackers first that can often Tera if needed to beat it like MB Glimmora CM Raging Bolt, NP Gholdengo, etc. Then there’s even some physical attackers that can beat it if they set up first like SD Kingambit or SD Iron Hands. Beyond that you can just have strong special attackers like Regidrago or Walking Wake that can just chunk it hard.

There’s even some more tech options that have been gaining popularity like Whirlwind Ting-Lu, Sacred Sword mons, and this isn’t even counting ragepowder mons like Amoonguss & Sinistcha that can redirect Archaludon’s Electro Shot, and Amoonguss can also spore it.

All in all, there’s just enough in the metagame to be able to beat it, and this is further evidenced by as others have pointed out it’s slightly dwindling popularity. Do Not Ban.

 

[Akaru Kokuyo]

Archaludon is what I would consider the closest Tier 2 to being Tier 1, but has enough flaws to stop it from being so. I won't go much into detail because most of what I think about the Pokémon is on this post, but I'll quickly list some of these flaws:

• Depending on the set you load, you have some very good or very bad matchups.
• Very tera hungry since it's weak to the strongest hitter in the tier (Landorus).
• Easily disrupted.
• Lacks sustain.

It also has some very good points such as easily snowballing games, immediately being threatening if you mess up some turns (Click Fake Out / U-Turn when this switches in), and punishing from the teambuilder if you don't prepare for this, but isn't near as game-breaking as some of the previous Pokémon we've tested and banned. Unfortunately I've been busy with final exams for the last 2 weeks, so I was unable to ladder, but if I had gotten reqs I would've voted Do not ban

 

[Yoda2798]

There are still votes remaining, but the result is decided. With Do Not Ban having received over 40% of the vote already, Archaludon will remain legal in SV DOU. The current voting breakdown is as follows:

Ban: 8 (19.0%)
Do Not Ban: 26 (61.9%)
Votes Remaining: 8 (19.0%)
Total Voters: 42

Post below your thoughts on this result, and any other metagame elements you wish to discuss!