Metagame NP: SV RU Stage 18 - Kings & Queens [July 2025 Shifts + Serperior Quickbanned] [#7]

[feen]

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A fresh thread has been long overdue, and this would be a good time for one! July 2025 shifts are in and they are quite.... interesting:

Gains




Losses




Clearly the ogre in the room is Ogerpon. With access to a wide variety of useful movepools and coverage especially Spikes, Knock Off, and U-Turn, access to an immediate Speed boost upon Terastallization, Ogerpon can act as an extremely potent progress maker and sweeper. Coupled with the fact that we lost two of the best Poison-types in the tier (one of them being the best hazard remover) + one of the best pivots, Ogerpon becomes downright unstoppable. Ogerpon does have checks, notably Talonflame, Salamence, Noivern, and Amoonguss; the former three gets heavily crippled by Knock Off + gets threatened to be OHKOed by +2 Rock Tomb (Intimidate does not work here due to Ogerpon's Defiant), while the latter is very passive by itself and Knock Off also leaves Amoonguss prone it to Spikes.

As a result, Ogerpon was quickbanned due to a council vote. Here are the results:

pinging Hecate, Marty, and dhelmise to implement the changes


Will Grass-types rule supreme in RU? Will hjkhj build an unbeatable Blissey stall? Is Hisuian Goodra going to be S rank with Serperior being everywhere? Let us know your thoughts on the tier!

 

[LBN]

Aight. Shifts have come in, so I'll outline the winners, Normal People Edition. Those with the audacity to load teams with a defensive backbone are welcome. Let's have fun, I'll be doing first impressions of the new mons and then get into the winners etc. Mind you, this is personal opinions, not Council Member Luna speaking. Not gonna mention losers since honestly thats less fun and not a ton rlly lost this shift.

Gains:

(

)

Losses:

Honestly? Serp has kinda disappointed, truthfully I expected alot worse but it feels like it will always lose to somebody. That being said, forcing Hoodra on pretty much every team ever is stupid and nobody likes glare. I think it'll need a bit more time compared to Oomfiepon above but again, I don't expect reception to this thing being very kind. That being said, when I said every team I mean EVERY single team. Like its silly how many sap hoodra's are being spammed on all squads and I hope that doesn't give anyone the presumption this thing is fine cuz hoodra annoys it a ton.
As for blissey, I think it'll be cool. Niche, but cool. Chansey offense has been a historic meme but at the same time I think Blissey Offense has a bit of potential. Toss Twave Hwish sounds p fun for offensive teams to check ghosts but otherwise it's a fat enabler first and foremost. NU can have fun w Chansey in 3 months after they ban Munkidori cuz we stole A-Muk.

Tier 1 Winners:

Mamo got a bunch of ground and grasses on the come-up, while G-Weez was a common splashed check on offensive & bulkier builds. Truthfully it's eating nicely right now, but I think the panic of it being suddenly broken is overblown. We still has Slowbro, Cresselia, Rotom-Heat among others means while I can see it being premier breaker #1, broken is another story. As for Krook, Slither gone G-Weez gone is absurdly good for CB Krook and every other krook set. Scale shot can stop being a joke, SR protect is great again, pretty much entirely unshackled. Back to A+ it'll go, me thinks. People started souring hard on Hippowdon with G-Weezing's rise to prominence, and with it gone I think its gotten much better. Breloom was mostly soft-locked to Poison heal sets thanks to G-Weez, which, while functional and certainly did tear fat and no sableye stall to SHREDS, it was basically all it could do. Technician sets are back online now, and I think they'll be potent. Bullet seed Mach Rock tomb CC/SD is gonna be nice af, but I think the dust will need to settle before it starts doing any heavy lifting. As for H-Lilligant... honestly I could see this being outright broken lmao losing fez and g-weez opens this thing up ludicrously well.

Tier 2 Winners:

Every ground type under the sun got better who could've thought. Not gonna elaborate on these three the same from the prior 3 applies to these 3 too. Mienshao is noteworthy since it hated g-weez more than it did stuff like slowbro or Cress or what have you. Mimikyu loses a check but hippo gets more common so who knows. Better into offense though. Regidrago loses a fairy and stuff like sub dd eq stab is usable now. Grimmsnarl is fringe anti-fat stuff but it does its job better without gweez.

anyways ahem

My thoughts and prayers

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Aura Guardian]

My first impression of seeing this:

-> Given the typing of so many winners and that we just lost a couple Fairies, I'm swapping out Meteor Mash on my Lucario in favor of Ice Punch
-> Betting Talonflame will suddenly find Brave Bird or Flare Blitz more useful than U-Turn.
-> So many ground and fighting types means I'm pretty sure Magnezone is just plain screwed now.

 

[Miyami~~~]

I kinda wish this dropped a month earlier when we still had real poisons but alas. This seems really difficult to deal with on paper unless you want to run Hoodra or Blissey (or AV A-Muk?) on every single team ever. Granted, Hoodra and Blissey are good mons but are pretty limited to team styles, and Serp has deceptively good moveset variety in spite of just clicking the same move over and over, with options like Knock, Glare, SubSeed, various tera blasts, etc. letting it annoy any non-hoodra check pretty severely. I do kinda feel like it'll end up just being a situation we get every once and a while where handling it defensively is reasonably capable but it's too good into offense and we have to ban it anyways, but we'll have to see. Get your red card mimikkyus ready!

also rest in peace to webs as a playstyle for as long as this mon lasts


Chansey was already fairly good even on balance here, so Blissey will probably end up being even better because it can run boots in a tier that just lost its best defensive remover. There's basically nothing else to say about it, it'll be a passive blob holding defensive teams together in the face of obnoxious special breakers like serp, although this tier leans more physical which might give it problems. I forsee a like A- Rank for this.

 

[Heatranator]

After playing shifts for the last day, here are my thoughts on the changes.

LMFAO, this thing is busted as shit. You have to use hoodra to beat this, and even then knock along with spikes support beat this fucker, nevermind that tera blast ground 3HKO's this anyways. Get this shit out of here quickly, I don't want to have to deal with this fucker any longer.

Omfg, this is a godsend for stall. While stall probably still has to use some form of removal (though I've tried muk+gastro stall for double sticky hold, and it wasn't bad, but does struggle with some knockers a lot), but not having to get constantly chipped by hazards on your main special wall is so good. Blissey can also reliably run shadow ball since it doesn't hit like a wet noodle on the special side (seriously, chansey 4HKO gengar with shadow ball, while herscu was 5HKO'd, it was so weak) as it can 2HKO or 3HKO most of the ghosts in the tier. Just an all around improvement.

This shitter gotta go LMFAO. I've been on the ban mamo train ever since it dropped, as geezing was a fake answer (check adamant LO icicle crash against geezing and tell me that was a good answer to the mon), but now you don't have to be forced into tera fire every time to beat it. This means mamo can experiment with other tera types. Personal favourite option of mine is nmi freeze dry with tera ice, which 2HKO's slowbro and deals well with the water/ground's that could check it. Yeah, totally balanced mon...

Honestly, Krook has felt really great this meta (when you don't face chesnaught). Not much likes taking knock+eq now, which allows you to experiment with other options over gunk shot (though the poison chance and beating ches is still good). BU can finally start to work, scale shot loaded dice can work as a late game wincon, counter can be a niche option to punish the multiple u-turns in the tier, and much more. Just feels a lot better where before it felt like you had to use gunk shot or the niche smack down to make krook work at all.

Due to having to be used as the only counter to serperior, I've been spamming this mon a ton and it feels amazing in this meta. I've liked 4A sets that drop heavy slam for dragon tail and use eq. You suck into bee but well, bee is dead in a ditch rn. Not much likes switching into your moves, with the steels not liking knock+eq at all, while everything else taking knock or draco for big damage. Just feels really good rn.

 

[Bice]

alright some thoughts on RU post-shifts

That Fucking Snake That I Hate

while individual serperior sets can be overwhelmed (and leaf storm loves missing at the worst times), a combination of unpredictable tera types (ground + fire are the most common, though i could see electric and stellar having their own niches), decent movepool (dragon pulse to hit mence, cyc, and noivern, leech seed for extra sustain, substitute to turn guys like umbreon into setup fodder) and glare being broken as shit makes serp a net negative for the meta. it almost completely dominates HO and encourages a much fatter, stall-y meta. most infamously, it forces h-goodra and/or blissey onto almost every non-offense team; while these mons aren't bad by any means, it's still quite unhealthy and even those mons can be overwhelmed, be it by serp itself (tera ground can pick off hoodra while blissey hates subseed sets) or its teammates. honestly don't even bother with pleasantries and please quickban this fucker

Maybe Problematic?

losing fezandipiti, slither wing, and especially g-weezing has caused the viability of a number of physical attackers to skyrocket, arguably into problematic territory. i haven't seen much of these mons (except g-zapdos) but i'd imagine that they could be problematic in the near-future, especially after serp leaves. mamoswine has to worry a lot less about being burned and can muscle through teams, especially more offensive ones, though its usual flaws (fragile and slow) remain. h-lilligant could be a problematic sweeper akin to ogerpon with the tier's best poison-types gone, with only amoonguss and talonflame being able to really stop it reliably (and even those have to be wary of ice spinner). gapdos has been controversial for a while, and losing its most prominent check makes it even better (especially with the rise of serp and hilligant), though its suicidal nature makes it a bit polarizing. i think these guys should be looked at after serp goes, maybe via survey?

Hey Look, An Actual Special Wall

...it's Blissey. It's basically a better Chansey, there's really not much to say other than "having another special wall that fits on archetypes other than stall is nice".

 

[feen]

Hi,

As I've said in the RU discord earlier, the council will discuss Serperior and its fate over the weekends. Serperior in its brief time has seemed to be one of the biggest threats and progress-maker in the tier. With only one actual counter in Hisuian Goodra, it's still prone to being Knocked and Goodra will eventually lose the war due to hazards being a dominant staple in the metagame. With an high speed for RU + access to Glare, checks like Noivern, Cyclizar, and Salamence get severely crippled while counters like Amoonguss are not great in RU atm. Coverage wise, Serperior can run Tera Ground + Tera Blast to deal with Steel-types and Alolan Muk, Dragon Pulse to hit the aforementioned Dragon-types, and even Tera Stellar + Tera Blast. To add on to it, Serperior also has recovery and disruptive moves in Synthesis and Leech Seed respectively, which allows it to be very bulky for its speed.

On that note, the council has voted on Serperior, and here are the results:

Therefore, Serperior is now BANNED from SV RU.
pinging HoeenHero, dhelmise, Marty, and Hecate to implement this, thank you!


In the coming weeks we will assess whether any Pokemon is deemed worthy of a suspect test. Let us know your thoughts!

 

[LBN]

New survey? New Essay. I'll give my thoughts on them, and highlight some mons I've got on my personal radar.

This mon been dumb, is dumb, and will continue to be dumb. Gastrodon is a good check to it. Ok but who else? It's a trick question you got 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count. Best bruiser in the tier and its not even close, the fact i can just stay in on Krookodile EQs and kill it for its hubris of expecting to kill is nonsense and theres alot of other mons it trades with positively that it has no right to. Blissey is a new check to some sets until you remember Blissey is heading straight to B- because its awkward to build with and chansey going to D. Sure, it can worn down and not do as crazy into common Gastrodon spike stack squads but have you considered those squads are rlly good because your heavily incentivized to load Gastrodon anyways? Personally, 2nd most broken mon here.

I owe some ppl an apology because I've been pretty hard on Mamoswine for awhile for being a fraud and never doing shit to me. See, I spam cresselia alot as it is. So the literal frame I don't have cresselia and I look for other checks? Damn the pickings are fucking slim my lord. Rotom-Heat, Slowbro and tera button that's bout it. What, you gonna hype up Avalugg? Bronzong aka lose to half our grounds anyways? Crocune tries its best and does better than most others but it ain't really enjoying switching hard into quakes and frankly doing "Better than others" ain't a high bar when this thing forces a ton of kills. I think its probably more restricting than Volcanion is, honestly and I think the builder would benefit most from this thing going, though I also think its the weakest performer. That RUPL winrate is atrocious and there's alot of times it feels like it should be doing way better.

This is probably the most traditionally busted thing in the tier. DD Lum Outrage is easier than tying your fucking shoes and tends to just smash games into pieces really easily. There are counter-measures sure, and Hippowdon getting better post shifts is a strike against it but tera 50/50s (not counting whirlwind cuz thats just delaying the problem), between ice fang and EQ means hippo can just fucking lose the 1v1. I really didn't expect G-Weez going to make Mence turn up this hard but damn I'm impressed. I'd be fine with this going.

See, here's the difference between Bisharp and these other guys above him. Bisharp's checks actually fucking work. Quagsire is an immovable wall, Chester is still great at the job, Inner Focus Umbreon can cause problems, and Hippowdon got better this shift so that's another mon Bisharp isn't really getting past easily. Tera type aside, its a one-trick pony, and that one trick having sure-fire stops makes me feel far less inclined to take action against it as opposed to some other stuff. Sure, you'll see a silly win pulled out of its ass every so often, same with Armarouge. But those two tend to be way easier to handle by just.. playing your cards well. The other 3 schmucks don't let you play your cards at all. So honestly, it's a DNB from me on Bisharp here.

These are the two on my personal radar. Gyarados hasn't really changed pre shifts and this thing was pulling wins out of its ass all throughout RULT ladder portion. Still a dumbass mon, but there's bigger fish. H-Lilligant is quite comfortably the biggest winner of the shifts and I've seen alot of fear of it... but I actually gotta see this thing get used before I can call it busted yknow. For now, my eyes are peeled but imma need to see results first.

 

[Heatranator]

Oh right, survey yay.

Frankly put, I am not enjoying the tier rn. I put my enjoyment and competiteveness at a 2 out of 5. Just way too many game ending threats that you have to account for.

LBN I think covered it pretty well, volcanion has one check, and gastro has to specifically be specially defensive storm drain to beat it, when gastro would otherwise love to be phys defense sticky hold. Wallbreakers are fine in tiers, but they have to have drawbacks, of which volcanion has very few due to its bulk. Easy ban.

Hey, you know slowbro? Yeah, one of the best mons in the tier that also is meant to be one of the best counters to mamo?
Yeah, look at this.
0- SpA Never-Melt Ice Tera Ice Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Grass Mamoswine Trailblaze (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 190-226 (48.2 - 57.3%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dark Mamoswine Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 281-330 (71.3 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So yeah, one of mamos best splashable counters, is in fact, not a fucking counter. Theres only two other 'counters' to this mon, cresselia and rotom heat. Cresselia is a passive blob of a pokemon if the mon doesn't care about para (anyways, here is gyara with a million sets that can beat t-wave) and rotom heat either dies to rock blast variants or has to tera when mamo clicks knock off. If there wasn't the fucker above to deal with, I would say this is the first thing to deal with.

Mixed bag on mence, while it does kinda wreck a lot of teams, it also feels like at times it can fall immediately flat. Something like slowbro (use foul play or ice beam please, they are really good) can definetely struggle at times, but can usually still come out on top, along with outrage making it so tera fairy just kinda walls mence (or a steel like id regi). Maybe in the future this is a suspect, but there def is bigger fish to fry.

Yeah, no lmfao. Bisharp is totally okay. It absolutely requires tera in order to do anything most games, and teams are able to usually to tera types through multiple SPLASHABLE answers. If your only bisharp answer is iron defense regi or wisp talon, then I just think you have made a poor team. Hippo in general just hard counters bisharp and options such as encore rachi or sub krook can help a lot with the bisharp war. Hard DNB.

I forgor to put this in the other survey option, but I probably should have. I think armarouge is a step below volc and mamo, but is still way too threatening. The checks just feel extremely limited and the tera types can just stop counterplay way too easily. The best counter is like, umbreon? But also that gets smacked around by tera steel and just takes insane damage in the process.

The first one here has been a hot topic lately, and while I can see the arguements for being busted, I think gyarados is taking advantage of other mons forcing players into specific mons that it can abuse. For example, noivern is having to be used everywhere and that can be taken advantage of by resto chesto gyara, or slowbro variants are forced by mamoswine and thus lose to sub tera dark. I think if the said mons are banned, gyarados becomes a lot more managable. Maybe I'm wrong and its still a piece of shit, but I would wait. Hilligant is def a lot better, but still suffers from its unreliability and being screwed over by defensive teras very quickly (also being a grass that doesn't want anything to do with slowbro). Just wait a bit bros, its good, but not broken. Finally, gapdos. People need to stop saying this is broken every month holy shit. Yes, it can do lots of damage, but people act like it gets in for completely free and can spam its moves all game. Yes, gastro may only need 10% chip to be in range of two brave birds, but gapdos is also taking 60-70% in the process, AKA, its basically dead. If your team loses to gapdos, trust me, it loses to a LOT more. Only playstyle it even is remotely problematic for is HO, but also pack a flying resist (which between bisharp, raikou, jirachi and toxtricity just to name a few) and you should be good. (or just use the goat mmq and be incredibly good).

 

[Feliburn]

Looking at the latest survey post, I feel the need to share my thoughts on the state of the tier.

Let's talk about the state of Rarely Used... (this would be my clickbait title if I had a video of this)

While I understand the reason why we make an effort to give the people a voice in the tiering surveys, and I respect the opinion of almost everyone, I feel like this case in specific requires more initiative than just looking at the numbers and reacting to them. My issue is that, from the last time I saw discussion on broken mons, a lot of people can find themselves with very mixed opinions on what they think is broken. LBN, for example, preaches Volcanion being broken and unfair, but you see the survey numbers, and it only has a measly 40% in the survey (28 in the qualified section). There's a lack of clear picture of what is the definitive broken mon right now, and it shows in the very spread survey numbers. It's fine if this happens, but I feel that RU right now needs some tiering action because the state of the tier is a mess in my opinion.

I share the sentiment that Bisharp feels fine. I don't want to get too much into detail on it because it's the same as the posts above.

Without Weezing, this guy is obviously better. I honestly can't say if I think it's broken or not yet because defensive teams are still trying to shape themselves again without Weez, Fez and Slither.

I've used Gastrodon nonstop since w1 of RUPL so to me this mon obviously felt fine LOL. Noivern and Cyclizar are also two of my most used mons so as you can see, I never really have an issue with this mon. I understand why some people want it gone though, but who cares...

These were the 2 guys I wanted to talk about. I think Gyarados is completely stupid right now, biggest tera coin flip in the meta right now between Tera Flying, Ground and Dark, and substitute sets, resto chesto sets, lum berry even and then trying to guess if its 3 attacks, rest or whatever in the actual game just opens up so many bad scenarios for the player facing Gyarados. In my eyes this guy was getting dumb at the end of the pre shifts meta, and right now it's even worse because Weezing gone opens up the other moxie sweeper. These 2 in conjunction break so many teams, with Gyarados feeling like the main enabler at trading with half a team, and mence cleaning up.

Again, I think the sweep potential of these 2 together is absurd, but, to me, Gyarados feels like the biggest criminal in every game I face it in. I basically have to use my phys def Umbreon and pray its not tera dark because then it trades enough with me to the point where the other breaker can get past me.

I feel like when we have such spread results in a meta that's really chaotic, there should be a more proactive approach on what the council, the guys who are trusted with the tiering decisions, feel should be done. I can't speak for the council on what they are talking about behind the scenes, but seeing "we will not be doing anything" just makes me lose the appeal of playing this tier.

 

[Heatranator]

Potential shifts came out, so lets go over them.

Welcome home my sweet boy. Ribombee is still prob going to be the better option, but with the tier slowing down, CB Liquidation is prob going to sting a lot of teams. Funnily enough it also checks certain Gyarados variants without T-blast Flying. Not going to be an amazing option, but a fun one.

Uh, wtf. I know that rain has been gaining some traction in UU, but this seems just sily....

But replace perry the platypus with Canard

I still think this thing is kinda a fraud, but it did get better with geezing, fez and slither leaving. Just make sure to not use up all your luck before you load this pokemon...

Rest in piss, you will not be missed (its crazy that this didn't quickdrop btw, what are we doing...)

Partially is dropping because serperior was the biggest middle finger webs had ever seen, but webs has been mid for a while. Theres been attempts of using webs on more ordinary teams or trying qd stuff, but those mostly fall flat.

 

[Canard]

"Diancie could move from NU to RU"

Absolute OTR Diancie Victory