Metagame NP ZU Stage 16: DUCKWORTH.

[sleid]

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Porygon2 finds itself back in ZU after rising out of the tier in the last shifts. Following a quick ban vote, we have decided to suspect test it! It was originally ranked A on the VR, but would have without a doubt risen to a higher rank if it had not been taken out of the tier. Porygon2 is tough to take down with its incredible bulk with Eviolite, its typing making it only weak to Fighting-type moves, and having reliable recovery. The Trace ability makes it almost impossible special attackers like for Oricorio and Choice Specs Jolteon to make progress. It even has the natural physical bulk to stomach strong attacks like Floatzel's Wave Crash. Access to Thunder Wave and a colorful movepool helps it cripple or take down faster attackers like Charizard, Clawitzer, and Whimsicott.

Porygon2 being an unkillable wall isn't the only reason it is being suspect tested. Charge Beam sets have been popping up as a way to use Porygon2's bulk to its advantage, accumulating Special Attack boosts while being able to sit on half of the metagame. This can turn it from a passive wall, into an offensive threat. It has similar traits to Growth Dipplin, but usually has to use Terastalize in order to avoid physical attackers like Passimian, Sneasel-Hisui, and Virizion.

Although it may seem too much for the tier to most, some have arguments as to why it's not. There are a lot of Pokemon who have sets that are capable of beating Porygon2. Calm Mind Jolteon, Nasty Plot Mesprit, and OTR Spiritomb and all find ways of breaking through Porygon2 with sheer force. Defensive checks like Naclstack, Snorlax, and Regirock can all sit on Porygon2 quite well and retaliate back. Charge Beam sets do help Porygon2 not be taken advantage of when it comes to its passivity, but they only work to great success when against Pokemon that don't have some way of boosting through its bulk, or when Porygon2 Terastalizes.

In conclusion Porygon2 might be manageable, but its interactions with its checks have led for many to call for action to take place. As such, the Council has decided to suspect Porygon2!

NOTE: THIS TEST WILL BE USING A NEW SUSPECT PROCESS!

The instructions to participate in this test are as follows:

• Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in ZU before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played ZU before the test, full stop.)
• At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
• Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact me, Tuthur, or a member of staff.
• If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM me or post here!

The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2920. For reference, the B-value for this suspect will be 4. The suspect test will go on for about 14 days, lasting until Friday, July 25th at 11:59 pm GMT-4 and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.

This thread will be open to allow all users to share their thoughts on this suspect test and discuss with one another their thoughts. Should you have any questions about the suspect test, feel free to message me or anyone else on the ZU council. Keep in mind that our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote. The outcome is up to you. Happy posting and laddering!

Avoid posting one-liners or posts that do not contribute to any discussion. They will be deleted.

 

[Michael Jordan]

Porygon2

I've just got reqs and I wanted to comment a bit on this mon. While P2 is usually a defensive wall with the ability to check a threats on both the special and physical side thanks to reliable recovery and a neutral typing, a new set has risen to be a threat.

Set

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy / Poison
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack / Tera Blast
- Charge Beam
- Recover
- Shadow Ball / Ice Beam

The switch from Trace to Download allows P2 to come in on more physically inclined Pokemon with a SpAtk boost, threatening with Stab Tri attack that only a few mons are willing to come in on. Alongside that, it is able to further boost its SpAtk stat with charge beam. It has the bulk and longevity to abuse this rather weak move thanks to recover, the Eviolite and it's neutral typing. It can also use Tera to overcome its fighting weakness.

My experience with this mon makes me want to ban it. While I don't think its egregiously broken, it is very annoying to deal with. The list of mons willing to come in on a +1 Tri Attack, while also threatening P2 enough to not continue to click Charge beam and Recover is small. Spdef Mesprit and Perrserker are examples, but they can all suffer if they get unlucky and are frozen by Tri Attack. Naclstack ignores status, but lacks the ability to remove P2's item, and its ways of pressuring P2 outside of Salt Cure can be worked around via Tera. Another one of the better checks is your own Porygon2, and you often leave this interaction burning each other out of recovers, making it easy from one of your team mates to revenge it.

One thing that makes me not want to ban Porygon2 is the defensive utility it brings to the tier. The defensive sets are able to keep many threats in the tier in check, and it overall can make building easier, knowing you have a mon which can blanket check a lot of special attackers. With the previous suspect in Oricorio if I got reqs (Thanks Bloodace) I would have voted ban simply because while it isn't broken, it's one of the many threats in the tier difficult to cover in the builder which makes building exhausting, and removing one of those would make things easier. P2 has the opposite problem being that it's broken but is also very good for the tier.

 

[Tuthur]

I'm kinda surprised to see so much support in favor of banning Porygon2, whether it's on council votes or just general community talks. That Pokémon has felt so underwhelming on my ladder run, that I ended up switching to a team without it for reqs after trying out different sets. I just watched every LTWC replays featuring Porygon2 and it just seems to be a great Pokémon.

Defensive Porygon2 is extremely bulky and can easily make progress with Thunder-Wave, while keeping itself healthy with Recover. Havocknight vs Danny is a good showcase that this set must be respected and can be really hard to break down if you can't get a Knock Off on it. That's a set we've known for a while and could adapt rather well in past metagame iterations through the use of bulky Substitute users like Mesprit and Jolteon, and I feel like the general consensus is that this set can be prepared for rather well.

The main concern is seemingly the offensive set, and eh... I'm a bit surprised by that. This set seems to only be good in theory, flopping massively in practice. Charge Beam is a very underwhelming way of boosting yourself and without Thunder Wave, you are not threatening offensive threats out that can just boost along yourself and break through you. Those super offensive invested Porygon2 are really bad; they are not bulky enough to act as a defensive backbone like you wish they did and they are not initially strong enough to be a threat compared to other Pokemon in its speed tier. In Havocknight vs Toto, we can see Porygon2 being forced out by Leftovers Arboliva and ended up being pretty much useless. In yo cho vs sayyonara, Porygon2 can't find any switch-in opportunities until it's too late and gets OHKOed by Clawitzer. In Monai vs sayyonara, Porygon2 gets to do things but it's mostly at trading with itself and we also see why Charge Beam can be a bit unreliable. In TakingNotesKinda vs Morbius Z, Porygon2 takes down a Mesprit for its Eviolite and then forces a tera from Mabosstiff.

I fail to be see what aspect of Porygon2 makes it broken. We've had that Pokémon in the past and it wasn't broken. Teams don't seem to overprep for it in LTWC, but are seemingly doing fine against it. Porygon has been breaking some teams, but better than other breaks in the same speed bracket like Clawitzer or Trevenant.