(NU) Linoone is garbage

[Silent Platform]

Very few people actually know what they're doing in NU at this point in time, so that gives crap players like myself the chance to ladder up with stupid teams like this. I managed to get to 1391 with (variations of) this team, which was enough to net me third place. Yay for premature tier laddering I guess.

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Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
Evs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Encore

We had to wait 4 generations before GF decided to make Shuckle useful, but oh boy did they do a good job. Hands down the best sticky web setter in the tier (sorry Leavanny), the combination of Sturdy + Mental Herb basically guarantees at least one hazard every time and most of the time even two, since apart from Stone Edge there's not much in the tier that can 2HKO Shuckle. Mental Herb is the preferred item so you don't get completely shut down by taunt, but I've been running Red Card from time to time, which is funny vs Venomoth/Vivillion leads who think they can quiver without worries. The speed EVs are to speedcreep other Shuckle so you can encore them if they don't have Mental Herb themselves.

I've ran Defog "blockers" on this team in earlier versions in Pawniard and Meowstic, but I've dropped them both since a free +2 generally isn't worth having no web up. Primeape might be better but I'm not really planning on using him. I play around Defoggers that stay in on shuckle by toxicing them and spamming the appropriate hazard and later on just putting on enough offensive pressure so they don't get the chance to clear the field.

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Evs: 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Dark]/Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Taunt

Virizion is an amazing pokemon in this tier and initially ran the standard LumSD set but I switched over to this custom set to lure in Doublade and weaken it for Linoone. The Evs are to guarantee the 2HKO on 252/4 Doublade after rocks with Hidden Power with the rest dumped into attack. I used to run HP Fire so I could also check Durant with web up, but I didn't like losing to other Virizion when web wasn't up due to the speed drop, so I began to look for other options. I ran HP Ground cause it also hit Poison types, but that left me very vulnerable to Flying types, Sigilyph in particular, and it didn't do shit to Dragalge anyway. So now I'm switching between HP Dark/Ghost. I like Dark 'cause I get to keep my IVs and I have to predict less when my opponent has a Ghost and a Normal type, for example, but HP Ghost has better coverage with CC and doesn't trigger Justified so idk. Regardless of the HP, I really love this Viri set because people mindlessly switch in Doublade and to a lesser extent Sigi into her, only to get smacked around with a well-placed HP.

Omastar @ White Herb
Ability: Shell Armor
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam

I could make a "Lord Helix" reference here, but unfortunately no. Standard.Omastar basically, which I found works great on sticky web because even though +2 Omastar is easily revenged, +3 is not. I run Modest because I don't run life orb and I do run web, basically. If there's any reason to run timid in a situation where web is up, please do enlighten me. What I love about Omastar + Virizion as an offensive core is that basically anything that comes in to check Viri (Archeops, scarfed fire, even durant) gives Omastar a chance to set up and sweep. What I love about Oma vs other Smashers in the tier is its physical bulk and rock typing, allowing it to take pretty much any priority except strong mach punch. It's also a great fletchinder check, which is always nice.

Linoone @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pickup
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Claw

After abusing Zangoose + web, Sawk + web and Durant + web, I decided to try out if Linoone also could become borderline broken with Shuckle's little miracle. Spoilers: not really. While priority is really important in this tier and the frail meta allows Espeed to actually do some big damage, I've experienced Linoone to be kind of underwhelming because it can't reliably get a Belly Drum of and without it its damage output is disappointing. Why do you still run it then, you might ask? Just because it's so funny when you do get the opportunity to sweep with it and Extreme Speed is a very nice move to have. If there's any member I would replace on this team, it would be this one, but it would be with pain in my chest. Also its ability is Pickup cause when he's not destroying souls Linoone is getting bitches like no other.

Spiritomb @ Dread Plate
Ability: Infiltrator
Evs: 252 Atk / 8 Spd / 248 HP
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-o-wisp

Shuckle, as amazing as he is, hates wisdombird, so that's why Spiritomb is here: to trap and kill Xatu so shuckle isn't bullied. Aside from that, Spiritomb is a very good pokemon in general and is bulky enough to check a lot of physical attackers. Infiltrator is also very nice to revenge kill pokes that hide behind a sub. Spiritomb is also another source of priority, which always helps. The speed Evs are to speedcreep with doublade and such. Not much too say about this honestly, it always does well and I hate facing it.

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Psyshock
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Substitute

Another amazing addition to NU this gen, cosmic power offensive Sigilyph puts in so much work it's almost ridiculous. When it comes in it's pretty much guaranteed to do some heavy damage to the opponent and even if it doesn't who cares, you're not taking hazards damage anyway. The first three moves are pretty standard, but it's the fourth move slot I've been experimenting a lot with. Initially I ran roost, but I found that I never really needed it and that it slowed down the tempo of my game. I've ran Dazzling Gleam to hit Spiritomb, Tailwind for support in case web failed and even considered something like energy ball and ice beam to hit Seismitoad or other Sigilyph respectively, but I eventually settled on Substitute to dodge sucker punch. Plus, if you're lucky, you might even score a few flinches hiding behind one and hax a "counter" to death.

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Threatlist:

• Durant: Probably the biggest of all, in a scenario where sticky web isn't up and it gets up a Hone Claws, I'm pretty much swept. I should probably do something about this and put something on the team that checks it naturally, but that would mean byebye Linoone and that would make me sad :<
• Archeops: If Omastar and Spiritomb are weakened and/or killed, this thing cleans up the rest of my team.
  
• Swellow: See Archeops. Possibly even more dangerous cause even though it dies quicker, it does way more damage to Spiritomb. As long as Oma is at decent health it's set-up fodder though, since it needs two max rolls on Facade and then one on Quick Attack to KO it.
• Barbaracle: It can only really get off a smash against Sigilyph if it's at full, but if it does this thing is actually a big threat. Have yet to be in the situation where it gets this opportunity but yeah.

The actual threat list is far longer, but these were just some off the top of my head. Since it's HO, it's only logical that if things set up without paying for it, you're most likely gonna get swept. The team is nowhere as solid as I'd like it to be, but it's very fun to play with and does pretty well in general. If there are any gaping holes in it I'm not seeing, please do taunt me about it. This might be my first RMT here but don't hold back on the nasty comments as long as they're justified :>.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Imo roost+CM>air slash+sub.

 

[ium]

i find it weird that you're trying to use sticky web when the pokemon you're pairing alongside shuckle require an additional turn of setup to actually do damage. and even then, omastar boosts its speed on its own and linoone carries priority so it doesn't seem to have any purpose

if you want to use sticky web, i'd probably scrap most of this team and look into things that hit hard right away because having things like virizion and linoone can greatly kill your momentum given that they have common hard counters. you need to replace your offensive core so definitely remove linoone and replace it with durant (could go with crunch or thunder fang > x-scissor on the standard set). virizion can be replaced by choice band sawk which deters stealth rock and hazards while potentially breaking past durant's checks with knock off or close combat. finally, omastar should be replaced by a choice scarf user that acts as an emergency check to certain pokemon, especially fast flying-types and levitate users, so rotom (or a rotom-a forme if the doublade susceptibility seems much) would be nice

sigilyph should be using calm mind / roost / psyshock / heat wave for the most part. if you stay with omastar for any reason, you may want to consider a timid nature specifically for choice scarf rotom-a

haven't really explored hyper offense that much yet, but this should push the team in the right direction a little. when building a team next time, try to unify the purpose or support the central goal because these pokemon aren't good abusers of sticky web, hence the large number of changes

 

[Silent Platform]

i find it weird that you're trying to use sticky web when the pokemon you're pairing alongside shuckle require an additional turn of setup to actually do damage. and even then, omastar boosts its speed on its own and linoone carries priority so it doesn't seem to have any purpose

if you want to use sticky web, i'd probably scrap most of this team and look into things that hit hard right away because having things like virizion and linoone can greatly kill your momentum given that they have common hard counters. you need to replace your offensive core so definitely remove linoone and replace it with durant (could go with crunch or thunder fang > x-scissor on the standard set). virizion can be replaced by choice band sawk which deters stealth rock and hazards while potentially breaking past durant's checks with knock off or close combat. finally, omastar should be replaced by a choice scarf user that acts as an emergency check to certain pokemon, especially fast flying-types and levitate users, so rotom (or a rotom-a forme if the doublade susceptibility seems much) would be nice

sigilyph should be using calm mind / roost / psyshock / heat wave for the most part. if you stay with omastar for any reason, you may want to consider a timid nature specifically for choice scarf rotom-a

haven't really explored hyper offense that much yet, but this should push the team in the right direction a little. when building a team next time, try to unify the purpose or support the central goal because these pokemon aren't good abusers of sticky web, hence the large number of changes

Thank you or your insight, I definitely appreciate it ^^

My first sticky teams were indeed with cb sawk and a scarf rotom like you mentioned, but I've been testing a lot with it so hence why I'm not using them now. The reason I threw Linoone on the team was because I wanted to try and see if it worked as well as out-prioritizing opposing priority, but I can see where you're coming from and I'll replace it. I'm thinking of using durant instead and keeping Virizion as it is, since viri lures in doublade and qwilfish and can weaken them for durant to come in later.

I prefer to keep omastar since it can actually use most fast flying-types or levitate users as set-up fodder. While your argument that sticky web should do big damage right off the bad is certainly true, I've found this approach to be effective as well since it pressures people into spinning or defogging, giving leeway for that turn of setup.

Also, in regards to both yours and ApplePie's comment, any particular reason for that sigilyph set? I do believe dodging sucker punch is a viable reason for running substitute, but I might just be missing something.

Thank you for taking the time to read through and comment! :>

 

[ApplepieFTW]

So first of all, air slash doesnt hit a whole lot that psychic/heat wave doesn't. It does hit harder with stab, but roost+calm mind can turn it into a devastating sweeper. Air slash is definitely the most replacable, because with CM you can set up in the situations (sucker punch situations, that is) where you would otherwise use sub. You also have no recovery, and the status blocking aspect of sub sigi can't take advantage of. CM sigi just outright wins vs a lot of the meta, your only chance against it is to immediately pressure it with strong SE attacks, and tomb+virizion have perfect synergy with its weaknesses (most notably, you can switch virizion in on knock offs, sucker punchers (tomb, shifty) are set-up bait), so you wont have trouble with that. I have never had an NU battle without this set (or basicly none) and it has always be a very solid win condition, it can set up vs so much in the tier its just amazing. However, you should run 252 def 252 spd timid, this may seem like you're getting rid of a huge portion of the offensive prowess sigi has, but LO still hits very hard and you need this investment for it to do its job (or at least it functions better with it). Those ev's let it eat up physical hits like you wouldn't believe. You can ohko most physical attackers at +2 (which is not a rare situation to be in, and when they risk it and immediately switch in their 'scare-sigi-out' mon you can just switch like I said) at those you cant you outspeed, so the only thing you have to worry about is just living a hit. With its great speed it can also roost up after it has taken a big chunk of damage, so unless your opponent has a crazy fast team (a scarfer and a 100+ spd stat or smth) alive, you can just continue your rain of terror like nothing happened. Even if you only manage to get 1 kill after you have to switch, you can just set up later as sigi is an easy switch-in vs all kinds of walls because of its great natural bulk. And that was a hella long description. Try it out, it wont disappoint you :)

 

[Zibbity]

Shuckle @ Mental Herb or Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SAtk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web or Power Split
- Encore
- Knock Off or Rest

As a Shuckle user, I find that Shuckle gets too many status conditions, so I would choose Lum Berry over Mental Herb since I can predict taunts. If you want to outspeed other Shuckle, I don't see why you need any more than 4 speed EV's. As your team is, there's not much need for Sticky Web unless you decide to use a powerful mid-speed sweeper like Zangoose or Sawk again. Power Split messes up hyper offense and no one does it better than Shuckle. Encore causes plenty of switchouts, and Knock Off is an essential attack that will affect any switch-ins especially if Xatu dares to stop Shuckle's dirty work. Rest makes Shuckie healthy.

 

[Clone]

For Linoone, Sitrus Berry is the best option for an item. While having a buffer against status is nice, being able to almost guarantee a Belly Drum every time is better. Plus, you can abuse Pickup even more once the Sitrus Berry is gone.

 

[WhiteDMist]

As a Shuckle user, I find that Shuckle gets too many status conditions, so I would choose Lum Berry over Mental Herb since I can predict taunts. If you want to outspeed other Shuckle, I don't see why you need any more than 4 speed EV's. As your team is, there's not much need for Sticky Web unless you decide to use a powerful mid-speed sweeper like Zangoose or Sawk again. Power Split messes up hyper offense and no one does it better than Shuckle. Encore causes plenty of switchouts, and Knock Off is an essential attack that will affect any switch-ins especially if Xatu dares to stop Shuckle's dirty work. Rest makes Shuckie healthy.

Sorry, but there really is no reason to keep Shuckle around after it sets up hazards, so Rest is really not a good idea. It's not really supposed to wall, but support the team so mental Herb is better not because you can't predict the Taunt/Encore, but because you want to set up DESPITE those moves. Once they get set up, Taunt can't remove them and Encore will not last once Shuckle faints or is switched out, so no real worries there. As for Lum Berry, it depends really on what opponent you fear more: a sleep user or a Taunt/Encore user. Shuckle doesn't really care about Toxic or Burn as long as it can do its job of setting up hazards(though repeated full paras are likely crippling). So it seems like Power Split ends up being a distraction more often than not. But honestly, I don't see this team working well with Sticky Web either. But if you want to keep most of the team the way it is, why not use a Dual Screen Uxie instead?

Uxie @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 4 Spd
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Stealth Rock
- Memento / Psychic / U-turn

This actually allows far more opportunities for Linoone and Omastar to boost and sweep. While I feel Meowstic-M might be more reliable in pure Dual Screens, Stealth Rock makes Uxie a possibly better option for your team by putting all the support in one basket.

If you want to make your team a Sticky Web based team, I suggest listening to ium's suggestions. Most people should not be trying to Defog or Rapid Spin against Omastar in the first place (spinning is odd since you have Spiritomb, and unless the Defogger is Shiftry they shouldn't be trying to predict you to switch out in the first place). I do think you should try the offensive Sigilyph set he suggested as well, I just don't see much efficiency in Substitute for the most part (besides, one of the most problematic revenge killers against Sigilyph is opposing Spiritomb, who can bypass Sub with Infiltrator regardless).

 

[Brawlfest]

Hey there crazy cool team, albeit a little fairy weak. Shuckle HO is honestly underrated and is so good when played right, and you've done it quite well, but honestly Shuckle is deadweight on your team. I'm going to second with WhiteDMist's suggestion of Screens Uxie > Shuckle, and would like to in addition add the suggestion of adding Hone Claws Durant over Virizion. Frankly your team needs to just keep setting up and sweeping, and Virizion lets down your offensive pressure a bit, and as I said you needed a fairy check, so Durant can help. On top of this, it takes advantage of the mentioned screens to simply blitzkreig the opponent as one of the fastest and strongest NU Sweepers period.

Minor Changes:
Omastar: White Herb Sucks. Simply put, you dont help yourself with it as you still get revenge killed, and frankly you aren't that bulky with or without the boosts. Instead focus on your offenses or setup capabilities with either Lum Berry / Life Orb which let you more easily sweep opponents.

Cool team!
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Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge / Thunder Fang
- X-Scissor / Crunch / Superpower
- Hone Claws

 

[Ranger Mike]

Seconding the uxie as it can memento allowing linoone to belly drum (also gluttony salac berry is the best for linoone imo but lum is cool) or durant honing it's claws. Might I also if shuckle isn't running rest you need a wishpasser, personally I'd pick from audino/lickilicky/wigglytuff(also these are clerics) wigglytuff has competitive so you can benefit from defog and pass the largest wishes in the tier iirc, lickilicky has oblivious which makes it immune to taunt along with the possibility to run a bulky sd set with wish, and last but not least audino this thing I feel is not bad but a tad overhyped while regenerator and a good support movepool are nice you dont have any offensive presence. Other then that this looks like a good solid team! (oh and sigilyph has an adamant nature for what reason :L make it timid)