Oddly enough, I dislike being cold...

ParanoidDrone

ParanoidDrone

So here's a Hail team I've been working on for the past couple of weeks, and it's done rather well if I say so myself. I actually can't remember if I've posted this team before, but I don't recall ever hearing comments on it, so I'll assume I haven't. Let's get started, shall we? ^_^

Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Snow Warning
60 HP/236 Atk/76 Def/138 SAtk
Quiet (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Wood Hammer
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

My lead to start off the Hail. Also my only source of Hail on the team, but that's not a huge issue, I've found. Since he's not much for combat, it's easy to keep him away from hungry opponents until Hippowdon/TTar are gone. It's a SubSeeder, which I remember hearing worked with less speed, hence Quiet. EVs are for equal attack stats, HP is for max Leftovers (I think...it's been a while since I fiddled with this thing's EVs.) I find that Wood Hammer and Blizzard in tandem means that you need resistances rather than stats to stand up to this thing. Wood Hammer recoil is theoretically healed by Leech Seed and Leftovers.

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Pressure
6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Night Slash
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance

I don't normally use Swords Dance immediately to give the illusion that it's Choiced. I try to keep it away from damage if at all possible so that I can Swords Dance on a key turn and (hopefully) sweep. Ice Shard for the priority (which even Weavile needs, I've found), Night Slash and Brick Break for coverage and power. It's Jolly since Swords Dance provides all the power I need.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild (+SAtk, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Explosion

Hail team = Ice aplenty = flamebait. Enter Heatran. TBH, I'd love to remove the Scarf in favor of Life Orb or even Specs, but the speed's just been too damn useful to pass up. I know the analysis suggests Hidden Power Ice over Dragon Pulse if it's scarfed, but a) I don't like Hidden Power (personal bias, no flames pl0x) and b) I'm banking on the residual damage from Hail to make up the difference. And there's another source of residual damage that'll come later... I have no idea what those extra HP EVs were for, tbh. =/

Mamoswine @ Leftovers
Snow Cloak
220 HP/252 Atk/38 Def
Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Curse

Another offensive force, this one more defensive than Weavile. I guess it could serve as something of a tank once I get a few Curses in, but Ice has a bunch of weaknesses... Ice Shard ignores the speed drop from Curse, and Earthquake and Stone Edge provide excellent coverage. Like Weavile, I try to avoid using Curse too early unless I have to or if Leftovers give away my lack of Choice items. Also makes a nice switch into Blissey, I've found.

Roserade @ Choice Scarf
Natural Cure
6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball
- Sleep Powder

I <3 Roserade on weather teams for one reason: Weather Ball. Best part is, it doesn't mind Sandstorm any more than Hail, or any other weather for that matter (Hello 100 BP [Fire/Water/Rock/Ice] move). Anyway, a Scarfed Roserade will always outspeed a DD'd Salamence iirc, so Weather Ball Ice should deliver a OHKO. I'd say it provides a safe switch into Fighting moves, but I'd be lying unless we're talking about Aura Sphere or Focus Blast, as this thing is frail physically. Scarfed Sleep Powder has proven quite handy on occasion. Leaf Storm for power, Sludge Bomb for STAB that doesn't lower my stats. I was unaware that Timid Scarfed Roserade > Garchomp. DO WANT.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Liquid Ooze
206 HP/148 Spd/156 SAtk
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Ice = Stealth Rock weak, so here's a Rapid Spinner to get rid of them. Also works nicely to safeguard Weavile's Sash. Sets its own Toxic Spikes to combine with the Hail damage (this is the extra residual damage I mentioned at Heatran). Also serves as something of a special sponge, but no real recovery hampers it. Usually lives for the sole purpose of setting Toxic Spikes and Spinning away Stealth Rock/Spikes. EVs supposedly survive, outspeed, and OHKO SpecsMence, but a) I have yet to face one with this team and b) I have 2 Ice Shards and a Scarfed Weather Ball. Do I really need any more Dragon insurance? =/

Some other team members I had at one point or another were Froslass, Cloyster, and Clefable, but they weren't really working, which is why they're not here. (Heatran replaced Froslass, Tentacruel/Clefable/Cloyster were vying for the same spot.) Comments and suggestions welcome. ^_^

I'll mull over the proposed changes so far before I swap out any Pokemon/movesets, but do keep commenting.
 
I actually don't recall ever having an issue with TTar, oddly enough. Everyone can hit it SE (though 2 are Choiced...), so that might have something to do with it...

That reminds me...I need to see if Abomasnow is capable of outspeeding TTar. If so, I'll probably change it's nature/EVs.
 
Melon said:
What a brilliant contribution to this thread.

Seriously, if you're going to post like that, go away.
Click to expand...
Good job at being a hypocrite. You contributed to this thread as much as he did.

You're right, Tyranitar shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you don't let it get in too many hits. I'd pay more attention to the obscenely large fighting weakness (which neither of your defensively fragile poison types can take without losing a huge chunk of HP). For example, Heracross can come in, Close Combat, switch out, and repeat until your poison types are destroyed and your are left defensive-less (which should not take long).

To rid yourself of both a fighting weakness and a possible Tyranitar weakness in one go, I'd use a Gliscor over Weavile. Gliscor should be able to handle both, and can also benefit if you are against a sandstorm team. You can run either Knock Off or Stealth Rock, both of which will do a lot to help out your team.

With Tyranitar running a chance to be hit super effective by all your attacks, and also having a pokemon that can beat it 1v1, you should be able to have Hail out for a longer time. Hippowdon shouldn't be able to switch in many times, either, but I do admit that Gliscor may give it a few chances to do so.

To be honest, I never saw Weavile doing much on this team in the first place (if you had run Pursuit on it, it could probably devastate Ghost types that are blocking your Rapid Spin so your ice types have an easier time switching in with hazards gone).

Do those extra HP EVs on Heatran do something special? Please run max speed unless you can give me one good reason to run 22 EVs in HP.

Also, steel types suck, especially for Hail teams. Run HP: Fire over Sludge Bomb on Roserade to nail the steel type switch ins. With Leaf Storm/HP: Fire/Ice Weather Ball, you hit neutral to every Pokemon except Heatran (which you could not hit in the first place).

On the subject of Roserade, you may want to try out Timid and see how it does. Being able to outrun Scarfed Adamant Garchomp and scare it away is a great addition to your team.

I do like this team, by the way.
 
Actually SleepTalk Heatran might do some good in here, since your team won't like a whole lot of Sleep (despite Roserade having Natural Cure). It sounds crazy, but maybe Bite might work alright on Curse Mamoswine. Not that you have a huge Bronzong problem, but it would help you with the benefit of hitting him. Unless Gyarados scares the living daylights out of you. Speaking of Gyarados, you don't like taking hits from him too well. Even Hidden Power Electric would prove useful on Tentacruel or Roserade. You also look like you'll have a rough time with stuff like Lucario, even on the physical side of the spectrum. Gliscor or even Weezing (burns seriously can help Mamoswine) can aid you in protection of this.
 
Actually, Weavile is the reason I won against a ScarfCross. <_< It was the last Pokemon and I let it decimate my team to accumulate Def drops then Ice Sharded for the win.

I actually have no idea what Heatran's HP EVs are for...It's been forever since I messed with them. It might be me taking Specs EVs and swapping out a Scarf. =/

Timid Scarfed Roserade > Garchomp? DO WANT.

I'd say yes to Hidden Power, but I have a personal irrational bias against using it. <_<;

What if I removed Tentacruel for Gliscor instead of Weavile? It's the team member I use the least and it's been able to serve it's "purpose" (Set TS and Spin if needed) in less than half my battles.

On STalk Heatran, is that with or without Rest and/or a Choice item?

Thanks for the input. You're awesome. ^_^
 
i prefer grass knot on abonasnow. leech seed annoys the hell out of bliss anyways.

i don't like curse on mamo either. not without a sub. stone edge is only good for gyara. i think you need to put icicle spear or ice fang in the mix somewhere. it's perfectly acceptable to have both ice fang and ice shard on the same set. they do different things. one's better the switch in mind games, the other is a nice priority move.

you're also incredibly heatran weak yourself. 4 guys weak to fire, the 2 that resists it is weak to ground.
 
If not Weavile then Mamoswine. And the fact that Weavile won you a victory against Heracross is sort of moot, as Heracross is countered by Gliscor. Either one can go, actually, so it's just a matter of preference.

Looking at your team a second time, your team is potentially weak to Heatran, as stated by animenagai. You are also vulnerable to Gyarados (only if it carries Stone Edge).

Using Starmie over Tentacruel to solve these problems may be useful if you are willing to give up Toxic Spikes. Using Surf/Thunderbolt/Rapid Spin/Recover will still cover most of the things Tentacruel were originally designed to take on.
 
All weavile does is add an extra Fighting weak to your team. Just because it is immune to Hail doesn't make it a good choice. Swap it for something else. You may be surprised, but I recommend Garchomp. Garchomp actually runs better in Hail teams because it has many Ice types to rely upon to take its resistences. Also helps your T-Tar problem somewhat.

~M51
 
If he switches to Garchomp, there will be a grand total of TWO ice types on a HAIL team. That would not be much of a hail team. You made this team well enough that the resists work to cover the weaks. Mixcario could be a problem.
 
How sad is it when you forget about your own topic? <_<

Anyway, not to sound like a stubborn bastard, I'm a bit loathe to get rid of Weavile because...it's worked pretty well for me. Meh, if I get enough complaints about it I'll probably get rid of it it. =/

I also tried out Lava Plume/Earth Power/Sleep Talk/Rest Heatran @ Leftovers for a while on Shoddy, but I found that it wasn't doing much. Then again, that was probably me being an idiot and not using it properly. Not Heatran's fault.

Random thought: Is it at all possible to turn Starmie into a sort of special sponge? *braces for flames*
 
Uh. Why won't you just ditch the Mamoswine and add a Dugtrio in there. Weavile is already Ice Sharding. At least with Dugtrio, if Heracross or Heatran kills something, you bring it in, kill them. No questions asked. More importantly, it gets rid of.........INFERNAPE, which just utterly, utterly, rapes your team.
 
Gah, I wish I could have a 9-Pokemon team or something. >_<

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I'll update this later if I remember, but I've gotten the feedback I wanted. ^_^
 
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