SM OU Offensive Rain

[Jorz]

A L L R I G H T , H E L L O
My name is Jorz and this is my 2nd ever RMT on smogon forums.

Im a big fan of weather teams so i decided to make a rain one (first one was sand) still have sunny and hail to go. I wont keep you any longer reading this lets get into the Pokemons.

KingOfStorms (Pelipper) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Hurricane
- Roost

Pelipper is a must have since its ability Drizzle. Im pretty sure most EVs are smogon recomended but i do check some stuff out and change some. Defog since Pelipper is my lead and often gets setup on by other leads if i decide to keep it also alot of use late game. U-Turn for momentum and for a slow switch to my Rain Sweeper/ best mon for the situation.Hurricane for that good damage on grass types that switch on turn 1. I have gotten very cheap Amoongus KOs thanks to that damage. Roost for the solid recovery to out stall Ferrothorn and Toxapex.

Poseidon (Swampert-Mega) (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock

My Favorite pokemon and a good one at that. Amazing typing and ability so its a must have if you dont mind having the ditto every once and a while. EV spread for the most attack possible. Normal smogon moveset. Had HP Electric but it did less damage than Earthquake.

Ares (Hawlucha) (M) @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab

I know I know im a copycat blah blah. Its a good set im using it.I never said I made it.
Classic Tapu Koko and Electric Seed Hawlucha. I run Poison and not Roost/Drain punch since I feel I can counter fairys way easier like this plus they dont expect it at ALL.

Thor (Tapu Koko) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam

Not sure why i have Terrain Extender now that i think about it. Thunder for that rain value, Volt and U-Turn for that momentum and Dazzling Gleam for that second strong STAB.

BeGoneThot (Bisharp) (M) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break

Here is where I get creative. It has good synergy since Mega Alakasm was a huge problem now i have a switch in and a reliable check. I use it mostly to annoy with Knock Off and Sucker Punch otherwise.
Brick Break for that surprise effect and for the ditto.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Defog

Normal Choice Set. Dont like the HP Ice on him since I have ice punch on Swampert.
Defog is useless on him but i dont know what to switch it with. E-quake and U-Turn are must haves.


Threat List
Fast Choice Scarf Users
-Ash Gren
-Land-T

-Priority Users
-Ash Gren
-M-Scizor

Tapu Bulu (if hawlucha is down he can destroy my team)

Kyurum-B(Got sweeped by a special one i cri)

M-Venasuar( i have alot of "checks" for him but if he gets the Swampert kill I stress out)

And i dont have switch ins for:

M-Gardevoir(Always used moonblast once she sees the Bisharp)
M-Alakasm(I said earlier that I do but if he Traces Swift Swim and reads the sucker punch im donw for)​

 

[temp]

Hey Jorz! I believe I rated your Sand team, and I'm glad to see you found it helpful. Rain is easily the best weather archetype right now, and good call on running offense with it. Rain offense is extremely powerful given that many teams' water resists are relatively frail—Kartana, Greninja, Latios— on their own offensive variants. I'll attempt to address most of your issues in your threatlist and any additional threats that I point out. Enjoy. :]

Overview

Firstly, some of the Pokemon—primarily Bisharp and Landorus-Therian—are out of place on the team. I feel that for this offense team, the roles that they play for you on this team are in assumption that you're on the defensive. To have a team like this, one that is intended to hopefully remain on the offensive, you should structure your team in a way that you can prevent a Pokemon from being threatening by threatening it offensively. This is the direction that I'll take this rate, as I feel stacking Pokemon that will address the team's weaknesses defensively (like slapping a Chansey on for Ash Gren, Alakazam or Gardevoir would be avoided heavily) only makes the team's goal less realizable. Anyways, ranting aside, I've noticed this team's lack of rain abusers outside of Koko with its Thunder and Mega Swampert. Next, your team lacks Water-resists outside of Peli and they're aren't many ways to pressure them offensively thanks to your own rain. You'd have to consistently force them out with Tapu Koko, which will become inefficient if it's a fellow Swift Swimmer or even Ash Greninja. Also, how do you break Celesteela outside of Tapu Koko and a +2 Bisharp? It walls several Pokemon and can even stall out rain with Protect. Your Pelipper lacking Scald presents Celesteela with several opportunities to come in for free and stall rain turns, too. After a Shift Gear, Magearna becomes a massive threat. Be it a Fightinium Z variant or Dual Dance set, it sets up on your Landorus when locked into an unfavorable move such as Hidden Power Ice or Defog, Bisharp and Pelipper. Because Swampert is Adamant, too, you will be outsped and can suffer a heavy All out Pummeling.

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Team Changes

Major Changes

>

- Greninja being placed over Bisharp will provide the team with more water power that I felt it was missing. In rain, you're OHKO'ing Mega Scizor, Celesteela with the current 252 HP / 132 Def /124 SpD spread and Shift Gear Magearna. This will heavily benefit Hawlucha and Mega Swampert, providing a new offensive way of handling the aforementioned Steel-types. In rain, you'll have a 93.8% chance to OHKO Mega Alakazam with Water Shuriken, and you don't have an ability that Zam can abuse. It can also set up Spikes to weaken potential switch-ins like Venusaur.

Moveset

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

>

- Scarf Kartana will be able to revenge kill Alakazam, a weakened Kyurem-Black, weakened Tapu Bulu, or Mega Gardevoir, and is up there in terms of fast scarfers that you outlined in your threatlist. Outspeeding Keldeo will prevent it from potentially cleaning lategame with Hydro Pumps. It'll abuse the rain that'll remedy the 4x weakness to rain, but it still will be KO'd by most strong HP Fires and general Fire-type attacks—case in point: Scarf Lele's Hidden Power Fire does 122 - 143.6% even in rain. Kartana can act as its own win condition, but it'll primarily be a revenge killer, defogger, and a Pokemon that does not care about Ferrothorn and can even force it out / do massive damage for Swampert, Greninja, and Tapu Koko.

Moveset

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Defog

Minor Changes

[Scald > Hurricane, Hurricane > Defog, 248 HP / 32 Def / 232 SpD Bold Nature] - Scald is paramount on Pelipper, as it deals increased damage under rain and can punish bulkier Pokemon such as AV Magearna that may want to switch in on a Hurricane to gain momentum. It'll prevent Pelipper from being complete set-up bait against Leech Seeding Celesteela, Trick Room Stakataka, or SD Mega Scizor. However, Hurricane isn't leaving the entire moveset, as you can afford to ditch Defog. Your Scarf Lando-T was running Defog, so I don't entirely understand the mentality behind running 2 forms of hazard removal on an offensive build like this. But, Scarf Kartana has you covered with its own Defog. However, thanks to the amount of switches it can force and the fact that it walls Ferrothorn, Defog will have a more practical use on this set than on a Scarf Lando-T that can freely click U-turn when it forces a switch. The EVs avoid a 2HKO from Scarf Keldeo's Hydro Pump and a Supersonic Skystrike from Landorus-Therian.

[Jolly > Adamant] - The power drop is noticeable, but I want to improve the match-up against Shift Gear Magearna. Alternatively, you can opt for 20 SpDef EVs to avoid an OHKO from a Timid Z-Fleur Cannon and keep Adamant. However, Magearna appreciates chip damage, so Spikes among hazards will likely be brought alongside it, so I personally suggest the former option.

[

>

, Hidden Power Ice > Volt Switch] - Fairium Z Tapu Koko will present Kyurem-Black, Tapu Bulu, Zygarde, etc. less opportunities to come in and threaten you. Twinkle Tackle, a 160 BP attack, will OHKO Tapu Bulu after a Spike and Stealth Rock damage. Hidden Power Ice presents Koko with a chance to heavily damage Landorus, potentially KO'ing it. I was considering Calm Mind to make Tapu Koko its own sweeper, but it loses the role of a pivot and thus will give Hawlucha less times to come in safely.

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Quick Tips / Guide

I. Importance of Offense & Momentum -

• Pelipper and Tapu Koko have U-turn to present Hawlucha, Greninja, and Swampert specifically with the potential to shine as a win condition. Greninja is a potent wallbreaker, and it can Spike if it predicts a switch correctly. This U-turn chip combined with potential Spikes will result in a build-up of offensive momentum, which offensive builds thrive on. As long as you prevent Pokemon that are threatening to you offensively from coming in and potentially breaking the team down, you'll prevent it from being an annoyance entirely. If you know a Kyurem-Black is coming in against your Pelipper to tank a Scald or Hurricane and fire off a Fusion Bolt or Z-Freeze Shock, U-turn and bring in your Fairium Z Tapu Koko. A lot of the Pokemon on your personal threatlist are only true threats if they're presented with opportunities to safely come in, and I hope my rated version and my rate in general really sent the concept home.
• If you're playing on the defensive for nearly the entire game, you're probably going to lose in the long-run. You used Scald on the incoming Kyurem-Black. You failed to keep up momentum, and thus you're forced to play defensively. Your immediate option would be to go Mega Swampert to absorb a Fusion Bolt, which means you're playing on the defensive and you have to play around and switch into a Pokemon that practically has no switch-ins to begin with.
• If you're presented with a situation where Mega Swampert got a KO, but an opposing Alakazam-Mega comes in after to Trace your Swift Swim, it shouldn't truly pose a threat unless your Swampert is at about 50%. If it is, you played poorly in terms of foresight, and you're then forced to play defensively—likely switching in Greninja which is immune to a Psychic to Water Shuriken. Having good foresight—thinking ahead—will be important when playing offense, as you'll easily be caught up and be forced to switch out which means you'll take a heavy hit from the threats you mentioned.

II. Abusing Rain & Terrain -

• Mega Swampert and Greninja are your primary rain abusers. Tapu Koko and Kartana are secondary rain abusers, as they can take use of it in ways that isn't simply improving their Water-type attacking power. Koko gets 100% accurate Thunders, while Kartana can potentially avoid some KOs from weaker Fire-type attacks.
• Your opponent's goal, especially if they're weak to it, should be to prevent the aforementioned primary rain abusers from coming in safely. Another mindset they can have is to stall out rain, as a Celesteela would. With these in mind, you should know your opponent will be making safe plays to keep up momentum vs. you, such as U-turning as Tapu Koko as you go into Mega Swampert. That'd allow them to go Ferrothorn. As you're forced to switch, and thus play on the defensive, they can get up a Spike on the incoming Kartana.
• Abuse the rain in ways that a Pokemon like Ferrothorn would not be able to safely come in on your primary rain abusers any longer, like Earthquaking twice on the Ferro as they Spike predicting your switch. They'll likely Power Whip, and now they're in a position where they'd have to swap out vs. Kartana. At that point, they gained no leverage—no advantage— over you.
• Firing off powerful STAB- and rain-boosted Hydro Pumps will be Greninja's main option. Thanks to the rain, Greninja can quickly attain Battle Bond. Even if outside of the rain, you can Hydro Pump AV Magearna for 30%, but remember that in rain, it'll be more free of a Hydro Pump. It does approximately 47%, meaning that it's a solid 2HKO after that prior chip damage. Now, their special wall is gone, opening up Tapu Koko and Greninja even further.
• Hawlucha is best to come in when it has momentum or if there was a double-down. Don't switch Hawlucha directly in unless you're predicting a weak / ineffective move or they have a passive Pokemon in. Tapu Koko abuses the terrain very obviously. Use Tapu Koko's menacing Thunderbolts to lure in Venusaur or Ferrothorn for an easy U-turn pivot to Hawlucha.

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Importable



I hope you enjoyed the rate! Click the images of the rated team for the pokepaste link to obtain an importable. As an alternative, you can check a pastebin of the same team here. Cool rain team, hope my quick tips / guide and team changes helped. :]

 

[Jorz]

Thanks again you have been very helpful both times.
I think its funny how similar it is from my first draft of the the team.
https://pokepast.es/d61fbaf305003155
I feel like the changes you made are amazing. I also feel kind off dumb for not thinking of them.
Also you covered the threats that concerned me perfectly.
See you around!

 

[Gross Sweep]

Sorry this comment is coming through a little late I just wanted to point out one possible other version to go along with the rate by -Latios-. The finished product of this team is actually incredibly close to the most standard rain team in OU right now, with 5/6 members matching and only flipping kartana for another grass steel in Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn provides the team with a solid defensive mon that gives rain a lot of flexibility. Ferrothorn is able to help with opposing fat waters, set spikes, and help provide more of a backbone when paired with Pelipper. Ferrothorn gives the team a switch in to things like Tapu Lele and opposing waters like Ash Ninja that the team just wouldn't have otherwise. In a Ferrothorn version of the team Greninja also gets freed up to run something like U-Turn or Ice Beam over Spikes which can be a nice option to mess around with. It doesn't really change anything else on the team as in its current state it's double defog which I don't feel is super necessary, so just keep Defog on Pelipper and you should be fine.

Ferro Set

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

This is all I really had to comment on. I agree with pretty much everything mentioned in the prior rate, I just wanted to bring forth Ferrothorn as an option, since it has proven to be so successful on this archetype. If you have anymore questions on Ferrothorn feel free to let me know.

 

[Jorz]

Sorry this comment is coming through a little late I just wanted to point out one possible other version to go along with the rate by -Latios-. The finished product of this team is actually incredibly close to the most standard rain team in OU right now, with 5/6 members matching and only flipping kartana for another grass steel in Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn provides the team with a solid defensive mon that gives rain a lot of flexibility. Ferrothorn is able to help with opposing fat waters, set spikes, and help provide more of a backbone when paired with Pelipper. Ferrothorn gives the team a switch in to things like Tapu Lele and opposing waters like Ash Ninja that the team just wouldn't have otherwise. In a Ferrothorn version of the team Greninja also gets freed up to run something like U-Turn or Ice Beam over Spikes which can be a nice option to mess around with. It doesn't really change anything else on the team as in its current state it's double defog which I don't feel is super necessary, so just keep Defog on Pelipper and you should be fine.

Ferro Set

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

This is all I really had to comment on. I agree with pretty much everything mentioned in the prior rate, I just wanted to bring forth Ferrothorn as an option, since it has proven to be so successful on this archetype. If you have anymore questions on Ferrothorn feel free to let me know.

Hello and thanks for taking the time to write this. Unfortunately I already tried this set with Ferrothorn and it sadly didnt work since my play style is based on a offensive playstyle. Furthermore without the scarf Kartana I would have answer to Ash-Gren or any fast special sweepers at all.

But thanks for the rate and will think about using Ferrothorn in a new rain team im making thats more stall based. (Wanted to try something new even though I'll doubt it works)

Hope you have a nice day and sorry for the late response :D

 

[Gross Sweep]

Yeah no worries everyone likes something different. The Ferrothorn version is just the most spammed/used rain team on the ladder, so I figured I'd throw it out there at the very least.

Also just a note that scarf Kartana doesn't really handle Ash Gren in the rain since Rain Boosted Water Shuriken OHKOs.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana in Rain: 303-357 (116.9 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also for handling fast threats you're supposed to rely on your own Gren's Shuriken, Swift Swim Pert, and Unburden Hawlucha.

But I guess having the extra assurance of Scarf Kartana is nice, gl with it n_n!