Hey folks, I was a Shoddy Player (as in Shoddy battle, not a bad player...in my own opinion at least :P) back in the days of DPP. I was there when the earliest incarnations of a certain breed of 'hyper offense' times saw play, the dual screens 5 setup sweepers teams. I really enjoyed this style of play, it went so strongly against the meta, there was no prediction, no switching constantly, you just hit them when you had to, setup when you could, and won, while they tried to predict and switch around on you as if you were a 'normal team'.
Of course after a while people got used to this, so it became a little less effective, and dropped out of favour. Coincidently I stopped playing around this point, and I have just started playing again the last couple of weeks. I tried to play a couple of meta lists (Mostly weather teams) and even tried building a rain team from the ground up, but it did not go well for me. I felt incredibly out of place in the meta, and a prediction and skill heavy team was not helping. So finally I decided to try my HO team from DPP. Of course, it got clobbered, since most of the pokemon in it were substandard in todays meta. But the actual team I really enjoyed, so I resolved to design a similar team, but updated to the current meta. With that in mind, here's the team building process...
My first member was slightly obvious. I needed someone to set up the screens, and I heard rumour Azelf was bad now, so Espeon took the job!
After that, I needed some sweepers that hit like trains and covered a lot of type bases. 2 dragons seemed really powerful, this is what I used in my final team before stopping playing, just as BW came out.
I then needed someone who checked dragons weaknesses. Their biggest weakness of coruse is other dragons, so a strong steel sype who can setup was a must.
I then needed general checks for my team's weaknesses. I had run out of good physical sweeper ideas, so Calm Mind Keldeo came to mind.
Finally I needed a guy who covered my weakness to flying and my lack of ability to kill bulky water types, so Nasty Plot Thundurus-T seemed legit (Bad sprite, couldn't find the Therian one!)
I went through a few changes for the Thundurus slow, including Virizon, Terrakion and Breloom but none of them lasted, they just didn't feel powerful in this type of team. The decision to drop Keldeo was easy, a single special sweeper in a purely physical team felt weak, especially after I got rid of Thundurus-T. Ironically choosing Gyarados allowed me to then switch back to Thundurus in the last slot, but this time a Choice Scarf build to revenge kill those pesky almost dead pokes.
Last change was to grab me some Garchomp action. This decision was due partly to his being Uber when I last played, and partly due to a Garchomp take my Salamence to pieces 1v1.
Right, onto the details!
Espeon @Light Clay
Magic Bounce, Timid Nature
252 HP, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Hidden Power Fire
My screen setup poke, she's very fast and she outspeeds the majority of the meta.
Psychic is obviously so she has a bit of reach, asd HP Fire as per suggestion to surprise the likes of Ferrothorn.
Her weaknesses are mostly irrelevant, her role is set up screens and die.
This is a change on the team, thanks to the comments below. I know I have a bit of a SR weakness, and while I wasn't quite willing to give up my screens as yet, I still do feel they are very good, I think Magic Bounce along with Haxorus's Taunt make up for the weakness reasonably well. If this stops being the case I may well use a Starmie to spin the hazards away.
Haxorus @Lum Berry
Mold Breaker, Jolly Nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Taunt
Haxorus is my first big sweeper, and my god is he a house still. His atk power is massive by any standard, and with a jolly nature and a single DD he is also very quick! Mold breaker is a nice check to his counters in of itself, and taunt is so useful for stopping their sweepers setting up, or their Blisseys (as an example) for poisoning you etc (paralysis, rocks, I could go on) and as I don't have Azelf as my lead anymore, a Taunter is definitely needed, especially with Magic Guard, its a nice combo.
Changed to Lum Berry, per suggestion. Kept Taunt for now, though may well try Low Kick.
Garchomp @Life Orb
Rough Skin, Naughty Nature
252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
Garchomp is now my second big bad dragon sweeper. I chose Naughty to negate the SpA reduction that Jolly has attached, because of my last minute decision to use Fire Blast instead Fire Fang. Still not sure about that, but my Skarmory weakness kinda demands a Fire Blast.
Rough Skin really pulls it's weight, surprisingly so. Any physical attacker that comes in on Garchomp gets a bit of a shock!
Scizor @Life Orb
Technician, Adamant Nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
Scizor is a great pokemon to switch into, he resists a lot of stuff, his coverage is pretty good, and Technician means his priority move hits nice and hard, particularly after a SD. I went for Adamant over Jolly just this once because of Bullet Punch, and the extra oomph can be relevant. Superpower clearly isn't affected by Technician, but it hits so hard thats irrelevant!
Turns out I meant to put Bug Bite all along, thanks for pointing that out!
Gyarados @Life Orb
Moxie, Adamant Nature
56 HP, 248 Atk, 204 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Substitute
Gyarados is my last physical sweeper, and he really fills a good role. He is surprisingly bulky despite my EV spread, and his coverage is as good as the rest. more than that, he covers my previous Volarona weakness, as well as my inability to safely switch into an Earthquke that Salamence brought.
Per suggestions, I'm using a Sub+DD set here now! I see the logic, hes a bit more resilient, his attack isn't particularly affected with the Adamant Nature, and he doesn't need the coverage so much.
Thundurus-T @Choice Scarf
Volt Absorb, Timid Nature
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Ice
My final poke, the flue that makes the team work in a way, Thundurus-T is my revenge killer, and he is very good at it, outspeeding most things that are relevant with his scarf and Jolly nature. His coverage is good, and he can scout nicely with Volt Switch too. Volt Absorb does a lot of work too, turns out Thunder Wave isn't good against it :P who knew...
The only massive issues I have noticed is that Scarf Politoed kinda kicks this team's teeth in when they lead with it, I have to counter choose Thundurus instead of going with Esp, although she can sometimes set up screen and switch to him, which scares most Politoeds out pretty fast. All in all I win more than I lose, and I haven't found any glaring mistakes, but I'd love some feedback by those who have been playing this meta for more than a week! Thanks in advance.
Of course after a while people got used to this, so it became a little less effective, and dropped out of favour. Coincidently I stopped playing around this point, and I have just started playing again the last couple of weeks. I tried to play a couple of meta lists (Mostly weather teams) and even tried building a rain team from the ground up, but it did not go well for me. I felt incredibly out of place in the meta, and a prediction and skill heavy team was not helping. So finally I decided to try my HO team from DPP. Of course, it got clobbered, since most of the pokemon in it were substandard in todays meta. But the actual team I really enjoyed, so I resolved to design a similar team, but updated to the current meta. With that in mind, here's the team building process...
My first member was slightly obvious. I needed someone to set up the screens, and I heard rumour Azelf was bad now, so Espeon took the job!
After that, I needed some sweepers that hit like trains and covered a lot of type bases. 2 dragons seemed really powerful, this is what I used in my final team before stopping playing, just as BW came out.
I then needed someone who checked dragons weaknesses. Their biggest weakness of coruse is other dragons, so a strong steel sype who can setup was a must.
I then needed general checks for my team's weaknesses. I had run out of good physical sweeper ideas, so Calm Mind Keldeo came to mind.
Finally I needed a guy who covered my weakness to flying and my lack of ability to kill bulky water types, so Nasty Plot Thundurus-T seemed legit (Bad sprite, couldn't find the Therian one!)
I went through a few changes for the Thundurus slow, including Virizon, Terrakion and Breloom but none of them lasted, they just didn't feel powerful in this type of team. The decision to drop Keldeo was easy, a single special sweeper in a purely physical team felt weak, especially after I got rid of Thundurus-T. Ironically choosing Gyarados allowed me to then switch back to Thundurus in the last slot, but this time a Choice Scarf build to revenge kill those pesky almost dead pokes.
Last change was to grab me some Garchomp action. This decision was due partly to his being Uber when I last played, and partly due to a Garchomp take my Salamence to pieces 1v1.
Right, onto the details!
Espeon @Light Clay
Magic Bounce, Timid Nature
252 HP, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Hidden Power Fire
My screen setup poke, she's very fast and she outspeeds the majority of the meta.
Psychic is obviously so she has a bit of reach, asd HP Fire as per suggestion to surprise the likes of Ferrothorn.
Her weaknesses are mostly irrelevant, her role is set up screens and die.
This is a change on the team, thanks to the comments below. I know I have a bit of a SR weakness, and while I wasn't quite willing to give up my screens as yet, I still do feel they are very good, I think Magic Bounce along with Haxorus's Taunt make up for the weakness reasonably well. If this stops being the case I may well use a Starmie to spin the hazards away.
Haxorus @Lum Berry
Mold Breaker, Jolly Nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Taunt
Haxorus is my first big sweeper, and my god is he a house still. His atk power is massive by any standard, and with a jolly nature and a single DD he is also very quick! Mold breaker is a nice check to his counters in of itself, and taunt is so useful for stopping their sweepers setting up, or their Blisseys (as an example) for poisoning you etc (paralysis, rocks, I could go on) and as I don't have Azelf as my lead anymore, a Taunter is definitely needed, especially with Magic Guard, its a nice combo.
Changed to Lum Berry, per suggestion. Kept Taunt for now, though may well try Low Kick.
Garchomp @Life Orb
Rough Skin, Naughty Nature
252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
Garchomp is now my second big bad dragon sweeper. I chose Naughty to negate the SpA reduction that Jolly has attached, because of my last minute decision to use Fire Blast instead Fire Fang. Still not sure about that, but my Skarmory weakness kinda demands a Fire Blast.
Rough Skin really pulls it's weight, surprisingly so. Any physical attacker that comes in on Garchomp gets a bit of a shock!
Scizor @Life Orb
Technician, Adamant Nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
Scizor is a great pokemon to switch into, he resists a lot of stuff, his coverage is pretty good, and Technician means his priority move hits nice and hard, particularly after a SD. I went for Adamant over Jolly just this once because of Bullet Punch, and the extra oomph can be relevant. Superpower clearly isn't affected by Technician, but it hits so hard thats irrelevant!
Turns out I meant to put Bug Bite all along, thanks for pointing that out!
Gyarados @Life Orb
Moxie, Adamant Nature
56 HP, 248 Atk, 204 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Substitute
Gyarados is my last physical sweeper, and he really fills a good role. He is surprisingly bulky despite my EV spread, and his coverage is as good as the rest. more than that, he covers my previous Volarona weakness, as well as my inability to safely switch into an Earthquke that Salamence brought.
Per suggestions, I'm using a Sub+DD set here now! I see the logic, hes a bit more resilient, his attack isn't particularly affected with the Adamant Nature, and he doesn't need the coverage so much.
Thundurus-T @Choice Scarf
Volt Absorb, Timid Nature
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Ice
My final poke, the flue that makes the team work in a way, Thundurus-T is my revenge killer, and he is very good at it, outspeeding most things that are relevant with his scarf and Jolly nature. His coverage is good, and he can scout nicely with Volt Switch too. Volt Absorb does a lot of work too, turns out Thunder Wave isn't good against it :P who knew...
The only massive issues I have noticed is that Scarf Politoed kinda kicks this team's teeth in when they lead with it, I have to counter choose Thundurus instead of going with Esp, although she can sometimes set up screen and switch to him, which scares most Politoeds out pretty fast. All in all I win more than I lose, and I haven't found any glaring mistakes, but I'd love some feedback by those who have been playing this meta for more than a week! Thanks in advance.
