Yes, for example:
248 needs 252+ to reach max speed and 252 needs 196+ to reach max speed. The numbers change in between, obviously, but this is how you can save EVs.
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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Project OM Mashup Megathread (National Dex MnM @ #143 is OMM Spotlight!)
- Thread starter Clas
- Start date
248 needs 252+ to reach max speed and 252 needs 196+ to reach max speed. The numbers change in between, obviously, but this is how you can save EVs.
*255 smh
CamoFFMNM has restricted Urshifu-Rapid, Volcarona, Dragonite with Red Orb being freed alongside Gholdengo!
To no one's surprise, Urshifu-Rapid has been restricted, deemed too powerful to hold a stone. It has very few and specific checks and well supported by a Beads Of Ruin boosted
can absolutely demolish teams, with 0 counterplay. Volcarona and Dragonite are freed but restricted, and will be underwatch.
The cheese string is now left reinless, deemed not too strong for this game yet, since theres a lot more stronger stuff able to keep it in check.
Turns out when you don't give a free type and its immunity in one package in a Ubers centralized metagame it isn't gamebreaking!
Of course, all of these are under monitoring alongside Zacian donor and maybe Lopunnite, just cuz 215 in theory is a crazy attack stat.
Feel free to give criticism, as always.
To no one's surprise, Urshifu-Rapid has been restricted, deemed too powerful to hold a stone. It has very few and specific checks and well supported by a Beads Of Ruin boosted
can absolutely demolish teams, with 0 counterplay. Volcarona and Dragonite are freed but restricted, and will be underwatch.The cheese string is now left reinless, deemed not too strong for this game yet, since theres a lot more stronger stuff able to keep it in check.
Turns out when you don't give a free type and its immunity in one package in a Ubers centralized metagame it isn't gamebreaking!
Of course, all of these are under monitoring alongside Zacian donor and maybe Lopunnite, just cuz 215 in theory is a crazy attack stat.
Feel free to give criticism, as always.
Last edited:
STAB Godly Gift Formemons 
STAB GG Formemons is a mashup of STABmons, Godly Gift, and Formemons. Each Pokémon inherits one base stat from a God (Restricted Pokémon), receives any move they share a type with, and can use alternate formes without required items/moves.
Council
pecha nerd
DuckyTBD
How can I play?
/tour new [Gen 9] Formemons, Elimination,,,[Gen 9] STAB Formemons GG
/tour rules Godly Gift Mod, STABmons Move Legality, *Annihilape, *Araquanid, *Baxcalibur, *Blaziken-Mega, *Calyrex-Ice, *Chien-Pao, *Chi-Yu, *Crawdaunt, *Deoxys-Normal, *Deoxys-Speed, *Dialga, *Dialga-Origin, *Dragapult, *Dragonite, *Espathra, *Eternatus, *Flutter Mane, *Garchomp-Mega, *Giratina, *Giratina-Origin, *Groudon, *Ho-Oh, *Iron Bundle, *Iron Hands, *Kingambit, *Koraidon, *Kyogre, *Kyurem, *Kyurem-Black, *Kyurem-White, *Lugia, *Lunala, *Magearna, *Mewtwo, *Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, *Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, *Necrozma-Ultra, *Palafin, *Palkia, *Palkia-Origin, *Pikachu-Starter, *Porygon-Z, *Rayquaza, *Regieleki, *Reshiram, *Salamence-Mega, *Serperior, *Shaymin-Sky, *Smeargle, *Solgaleo, *Spectrier, *Terapagos, *Toxapex, *Ursaluna, *Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, *Volcarona, *Zacian, *Zacian-Crowned, *Zamazenta-Crowned, *Zekrom, *Zoroark-Hisui, *Astral Barrage, *Belly Drum, *Ceaseless Edge, *Clangorous Soul, *Combat Torque, *Dire Claw, *Electro Shot, *Extreme Speed, *Fillet Away, *Final Gambit, *Gigaton Hammer, *No Retreat, *Population Bomb, *Rage Fist, *Revival Blessing, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Surging Strikes, *Torch Song, *Triple Arrows, *V-create, *Victory Dance, *Wicked Blow, -Arceus, -Enamorus-Incarnate, -Blastoise-Mega, -Blissey, -Chansey, -Deoxys-Attack, -Komala, -Arena Trap, -Gale Wings, -Huge Power, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Focus Band, -Quick Claw, -Last Respects, -Shed Tail
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 7
/wall In-battle transformations as gods will pass the stats of the base form!
/tour rules Godly Gift Mod, STABmons Move Legality, *Annihilape, *Araquanid, *Baxcalibur, *Blaziken-Mega, *Calyrex-Ice, *Chien-Pao, *Chi-Yu, *Crawdaunt, *Deoxys-Normal, *Deoxys-Speed, *Dialga, *Dialga-Origin, *Dragapult, *Dragonite, *Espathra, *Eternatus, *Flutter Mane, *Garchomp-Mega, *Giratina, *Giratina-Origin, *Groudon, *Ho-Oh, *Iron Bundle, *Iron Hands, *Kingambit, *Koraidon, *Kyogre, *Kyurem, *Kyurem-Black, *Kyurem-White, *Lugia, *Lunala, *Magearna, *Mewtwo, *Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, *Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, *Necrozma-Ultra, *Palafin, *Palkia, *Palkia-Origin, *Pikachu-Starter, *Porygon-Z, *Rayquaza, *Regieleki, *Reshiram, *Salamence-Mega, *Serperior, *Shaymin-Sky, *Smeargle, *Solgaleo, *Spectrier, *Terapagos, *Toxapex, *Ursaluna, *Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, *Volcarona, *Zacian, *Zacian-Crowned, *Zamazenta-Crowned, *Zekrom, *Zoroark-Hisui, *Astral Barrage, *Belly Drum, *Ceaseless Edge, *Clangorous Soul, *Combat Torque, *Dire Claw, *Electro Shot, *Extreme Speed, *Fillet Away, *Final Gambit, *Gigaton Hammer, *No Retreat, *Population Bomb, *Rage Fist, *Revival Blessing, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Surging Strikes, *Torch Song, *Triple Arrows, *V-create, *Victory Dance, *Wicked Blow, -Arceus, -Enamorus-Incarnate, -Blastoise-Mega, -Blissey, -Chansey, -Deoxys-Attack, -Komala, -Arena Trap, -Gale Wings, -Huge Power, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Focus Band, -Quick Claw, -Last Respects, -Shed Tail
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 7
/wall In-battle transformations as gods will pass the stats of the base form!
/challenge [Gen 9] Formemons @@@ Godly Gift Mod, STABmons Move Legality, *Annihilape, *Araquanid, *Baxcalibur, *Blaziken-Mega, *Calyrex-Ice, *Chien-Pao, *Chi-Yu, *Crawdaunt, *Deoxys-Normal, *Deoxys-Speed, *Dialga, *Dialga-Origin, *Dragapult, *Dragonite, *Espathra, *Eternatus, *Flutter Mane, *Garchomp-Mega, *Giratina, *Giratina-Origin, *Groudon, *Ho-Oh, *Iron Bundle, *Iron Hands, *Kingambit, *Koraidon, *Kyogre, *Kyurem, *Kyurem-Black, *Kyurem-White, *Lugia, *Lunala, *Magearna, *Mewtwo, *Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, *Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, *Necrozma-Ultra, *Palafin, *Palkia, *Palkia-Origin, *Pikachu-Starter, *Porygon-Z, *Rayquaza, *Regieleki, *Reshiram, *Salamence-Mega, *Serperior, *Shaymin-Sky, *Smeargle, *Solgaleo, *Spectrier, *Terapagos, *Toxapex, *Ursaluna, *Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, *Volcarona, *Zacian, *Zacian-Crowned, *Zamazenta-Crowned, *Zekrom, *Zoroark-Hisui, *Astral Barrage, *Belly Drum, *Ceaseless Edge, *Clangorous Soul, *Combat Torque, *Dire Claw, *Electro Shot, *Extreme Speed, *Fillet Away, *Final Gambit, *Gigaton Hammer, *No Retreat, *Population Bomb, *Rage Fist, *Revival Blessing, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Surging Strikes, *Torch Song, *Triple Arrows, *V-create, *Victory Dance, *Wicked Blow, -Arceus, -Enamorus-Incarnate, -Blastoise-Mega, -Blissey, -Chansey, -Deoxys-Attack, -Komala, -Arena Trap, -Gale Wings, -Huge Power, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Focus Band, -Quick Claw, -Last Respects, -Shed Tail
Ruleset
Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
Godly Gift Mod: A player may only have one restricted Pokémon to act as their 'God'.
STABmons Move Legality: Allows Pokémon to use any move that they or a previous evolution/out-of-battle forme share a type with.
OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
Godly Gift Mod: A player may only have one restricted Pokémon to act as their 'God'.
STABmons Move Legality: Allows Pokémon to use any move that they or a previous evolution/out-of-battle forme share a type with.
Annihilape
Araquanid
Baxcalibur
Blaziken-Mega
Calyrex-Ice
Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Crawdaunt
Deoxys-Normal
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Dragapult
Dragonite
Espathra
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Garchomp-Mega
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Iron Bundle
Iron Hands
Kingambit
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem
Kyurem-Black Kyurem-White
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Ultra
Palafin
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Pikachu-Starter
Porygon-Z
Rayquaza
Regieleki
Reshiram
Salamence-Mega
Serperior
Shaymin-Sky
Smeargle
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Terapagos
Toxapex
Ursaluna
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Volcarona
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom
Zoroark-HisuiAstral Barrage
Belly Drum
Ceaseless Edge
Clangorous Soul
Combat Torque
Dire Claw
Electro Shot
Extreme Speed
Fillet Away
Final Gambit
Gigaton Hammer
No Retreat
Population Bomb
Rage Fist
Revival Blessing
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Surging Strikes
Torch Song
Triple Arrows
V-create
Victory Dance
Wicked Blow
Belly Drum
Ceaseless Edge
Clangorous Soul
Combat Torque
Dire Claw
Electro Shot
Extreme Speed
Fillet Away
Final Gambit
Gigaton Hammer
No Retreat
Population Bomb
Rage Fist
Revival Blessing
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Surging Strikes
Torch Song
Triple Arrows
V-create
Victory Dance
Wicked Blow
Arceus*
Blastoise-Mega
Blissey
Chansey
Deoxys-Attack
Enamorus-Incarnate
Komala
Last Respects
Shed Tail
Arena Trap
Gale Wings
Huge Power
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Focus Band
Quick Claw
Camerupt-MegaResources
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FAQs
Q: How do Pokémon formes work in terms of passing stats?
A: Most in-battle forme changes such as Megas and Primals will donate their base forme stats (i.e. Groudon-Primal will give base Groudon stats), however Necrozma-Ultra gives its own stats.
Q: How do Pokémon formes work in terms of receiving STABmons moves?
A: In-battle forme changes only receive STAB moves of the base forme's typing, additionally, Mega Pokémon do NOT receive STAB moves of preevos with different typing than the base forme (i.e. Tyranitar-Mega does not receive Ground moves from Pupitar). Necrozma-Ultra receives STAB moves of both Necrozma formes but not Dragon moves.
Q: Why is x banned?
A: Here is a Google Doc containing general color coded tiering reasoning for each ban/restrict in the Tour Code.
Last edited:
Convergence Megamons
Convergence Megamons is a mashup of Megamons and Convergence. Meaning that all Mega Pokemon can be used just like regular Pokemon, without mega evolving and as many as you want on a team, with a Convergence flair added.
Because of the way this metagame has to be coded, other Pokemon with alternate forms are also allowed to use those. This only includes forms that currently exist in Scarlet/Violet, like Palafin-Hero, Arceus-Steel, Giratina-Origin, etc. It does not include Ash Greninja, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, or Ultra Necrozma.
However, because this is Megamons, all Mega Evolutions are added back in. Even the ones whose base form is not in the game. They just have to receive their moves and abilities from Pokemon who share their type. For example:
Audino-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power (From Azurill)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough (From Wigglytuff)
- Body Press (From Wigglytuff)
- Body Slam (From Wigglytuff and Azurill)
- Knock Off (From Wigglytuff)
Due to code complications, Megas cannot share OR HAVE their abilities*. They can only receive. No Huge Power Zacian, nor Huge Power Mega Mawile. This restriction does not exist for forms naturally in SV.
Mega Pokemon who have base forms in SV and change type after Mega Evolving keep their base learnset, but receive new moves and abilties from the type they currently have. For example:
Sceptile-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator (From Hydrapple)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Apple Acid (From Appletun)
- Draco Meteor (From various Grass/Dragon types)
- Flamethrower (From Exeggutor-Alola)
- Shed Tail (from Sceptile)
*Mega Pokemon can use their abilities if another Pokemon who shares their type has it.
Pokemon who do have in battle transformations can still use them. The only reason you should do this is if you want to benefit from moves the base form gets through Convergence. For example:
Zamazenta @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist (From Primeape)
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Recover (From Arceus-Fighting)
In battle, this turns into Zamazenta-Crowned, but in the builder it gets to benefit from all of the mono Fighting type Pokemon, rather than just Lucario and Cobalion. This way, Zamazenta-Crowned gets more versatility and move freedom at the cost of some ability freedom and being item locked.
Another example:
Arceus-Bug @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Aura Sphere
- Tail Glow (From Volbeat)
- Recover
Arceus does not need to hold an item or have Multitype to change its type anymore. Because this Arceus is Arceus-Bug, it will get the movepool of mono Bug types. However because of Multitype and its Spooky Plate, it will become Arceus-Ghost.
Zamazenta @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist (From Primeape)
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Recover (From Arceus-Fighting)
In battle, this turns into Zamazenta-Crowned, but in the builder it gets to benefit from all of the mono Fighting type Pokemon, rather than just Lucario and Cobalion. This way, Zamazenta-Crowned gets more versatility and move freedom at the cost of some ability freedom and being item locked.
Another example:
Arceus-Bug @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Aura Sphere
- Tail Glow (From Volbeat)
- Recover
Arceus does not need to hold an item or have Multitype to change its type anymore. Because this Arceus is Arceus-Bug, it will get the movepool of mono Bug types. However because of Multitype and its Spooky Plate, it will become Arceus-Ghost.
Council
BandedBodyPress [Leader]
aidan amoongus
Cherry786
sleepyfwogRules
Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
Sleep Moves Clause: A Pokemon may not have a status move which directly causes sleep.
Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
Sleep Moves Clause: A Pokemon may not have a status move which directly causes sleep.
Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
Altaria-Mega*
Arceus-Dark
Calyrex-Shadow-Rider
Cramorant-Gorging
Ditto
Manaphy
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
All Ogerpon Terastal forms
Rayquaza-Mega Smeargle
Ursaring Zacian-Crowned (Still legal with Rusted Sword on Zacian hero)
Zygarde-Mega*Mega Altaria is unusable because it has no Dragon/Fairy type to receive an ability from
Arena Trap Comatose
Moody
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Baton Pass
Belly Drum Last Respects
Population Bomb
Rising Voltage
Shell Smash
King's Rock
Razor FangCodes
/tour new [Gen 9] Anything Goes,Elimination,,,[Gen 9] Convergence Megamons
/tour rules Convergence Legality, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Nickname Clause, +Abomasnow-Mega, +Absol-Mega, +Absol-Mega-Z, +Aerodactyl-Mega, +Aggron-Mega, +Alakazam-Mega, +Ampharos-Mega, +Audino-Mega, +Banette-Mega, +Barbaracle-Mega, +Baxcalibur-Mega, +Beedrill-Mega, +Blastoise-Mega, +Blaziken-Mega, +Camerupt-Mega, +Chandelure-Mega, +Charizard-Mega-X, +Charizard-Mega-Y, +Chesnaught-Mega, +Chimecho-Mega, +Clefable-Mega, +Crabominable-Mega, +Darkrai-Mega, +Delphox-Mega, +Diancie-Mega, +Dragalge-Mega, +Dragonite-Mega, +Drampa-Mega, +Eelektross-Mega, +Emboar-Mega, +Excadrill-Mega, +Falinks-Mega, +Feraligatr-Mega, +Floette-Mega, +Froslass-Mega, +Gallade-Mega, +Garchomp-Mega, +Garchomp-Mega-Z, +Gardevoir-Mega, +Gengar-Mega, +Glalie-Mega, +Glimmora-Mega, +Golisopod-Mega, +Golurk-Mega, +Greninja-Mega, +Gyarados-Mega, +Hawlucha-Mega, +Heatran-Mega, +Heracross-Mega, +Houndoom-Mega, +Kangaskhan-Mega, +Latias-Mega, +Latios-Mega, +Lopunny-Mega, +Lucario-Mega, +Lucario-Mega-Z, +Magearna-Mega, +Magearna-Original-Mega, +Malamar-Mega, +Manectric-Mega, +Mawile-Mega, +Medicham-Mega, +Meganium-Mega, +Meowstic-F-Mega, +Meowstic-M-Mega, +Metagross-Mega, +Pidgeot-Mega, +Pinsir-Mega, +Pyroar-Mega, +Raichu-Mega-X, +Raichu-Mega-Y, +Sableye-Mega, +Salamence-Mega, +Sceptile-Mega, +Scizor-Mega, +Scolipede-Mega, +Scovillain-Mega, +Scrafty-Mega, +Sharpedo-Mega, +Slowbro-Mega, +Skarmory-Mega, +Staraptor-Mega, +Starmie-Mega, +Steelix-Mega, +Swampert-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Curly-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Droopy-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Stretchy-Mega, +Tyranitar-Mega, +Venusaur-Mega, +Victreebel-Mega, +Zeraora-Mega, -Arceus-Dark, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Ditto, -Manaphy, -Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera, -Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera, -Ogerpon-Teal-Tera, -Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera, -Smeargle, -Ursaring, -Zacian-Crowned, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Moody, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Baton Pass, -Belly Drum, -Last Respects, -Population Bomb, -Rising Voltage, -Shell Smash, -King’s Rock, -Razor Fang
/tour autostart 8
/tour autodq 5
/wall HUB: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread-ultra-mix-now-has-2-ability-clause.3751850/post-11005950
/tour rules Convergence Legality, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Nickname Clause, +Abomasnow-Mega, +Absol-Mega, +Absol-Mega-Z, +Aerodactyl-Mega, +Aggron-Mega, +Alakazam-Mega, +Ampharos-Mega, +Audino-Mega, +Banette-Mega, +Barbaracle-Mega, +Baxcalibur-Mega, +Beedrill-Mega, +Blastoise-Mega, +Blaziken-Mega, +Camerupt-Mega, +Chandelure-Mega, +Charizard-Mega-X, +Charizard-Mega-Y, +Chesnaught-Mega, +Chimecho-Mega, +Clefable-Mega, +Crabominable-Mega, +Darkrai-Mega, +Delphox-Mega, +Diancie-Mega, +Dragalge-Mega, +Dragonite-Mega, +Drampa-Mega, +Eelektross-Mega, +Emboar-Mega, +Excadrill-Mega, +Falinks-Mega, +Feraligatr-Mega, +Floette-Mega, +Froslass-Mega, +Gallade-Mega, +Garchomp-Mega, +Garchomp-Mega-Z, +Gardevoir-Mega, +Gengar-Mega, +Glalie-Mega, +Glimmora-Mega, +Golisopod-Mega, +Golurk-Mega, +Greninja-Mega, +Gyarados-Mega, +Hawlucha-Mega, +Heatran-Mega, +Heracross-Mega, +Houndoom-Mega, +Kangaskhan-Mega, +Latias-Mega, +Latios-Mega, +Lopunny-Mega, +Lucario-Mega, +Lucario-Mega-Z, +Magearna-Mega, +Magearna-Original-Mega, +Malamar-Mega, +Manectric-Mega, +Mawile-Mega, +Medicham-Mega, +Meganium-Mega, +Meowstic-F-Mega, +Meowstic-M-Mega, +Metagross-Mega, +Pidgeot-Mega, +Pinsir-Mega, +Pyroar-Mega, +Raichu-Mega-X, +Raichu-Mega-Y, +Sableye-Mega, +Salamence-Mega, +Sceptile-Mega, +Scizor-Mega, +Scolipede-Mega, +Scovillain-Mega, +Scrafty-Mega, +Sharpedo-Mega, +Slowbro-Mega, +Skarmory-Mega, +Staraptor-Mega, +Starmie-Mega, +Steelix-Mega, +Swampert-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Curly-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Droopy-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Stretchy-Mega, +Tyranitar-Mega, +Venusaur-Mega, +Victreebel-Mega, +Zeraora-Mega, -Arceus-Dark, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Ditto, -Manaphy, -Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera, -Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera, -Ogerpon-Teal-Tera, -Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera, -Smeargle, -Ursaring, -Zacian-Crowned, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Moody, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Baton Pass, -Belly Drum, -Last Respects, -Population Bomb, -Rising Voltage, -Shell Smash, -King’s Rock, -Razor Fang
/tour autostart 8
/tour autodq 5
/wall HUB: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread-ultra-mix-now-has-2-ability-clause.3751850/post-11005950
/challenge [Gen 9] Anything Goes @@@ Convergence Legality, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Nickname Clause, +Abomasnow-Mega, +Absol-Mega, +Absol-Mega-Z, +Aerodactyl-Mega, +Aggron-Mega, +Alakazam-Mega, +Ampharos-Mega, +Audino-Mega, +Banette-Mega, +Barbaracle-Mega, +Baxcalibur-Mega, +Beedrill-Mega, +Blastoise-Mega, +Blaziken-Mega, +Camerupt-Mega, +Chandelure-Mega, +Charizard-Mega-X, +Charizard-Mega-Y, +Chesnaught-Mega, +Chimecho-Mega, +Clefable-Mega, +Crabominable-Mega, +Darkrai-Mega, +Delphox-Mega, +Diancie-Mega, +Dragalge-Mega, +Dragonite-Mega, +Drampa-Mega, +Eelektross-Mega, +Emboar-Mega, +Excadrill-Mega, +Falinks-Mega, +Feraligatr-Mega, +Floette-Mega, +Froslass-Mega, +Gallade-Mega, +Garchomp-Mega, +Garchomp-Mega-Z, +Gardevoir-Mega, +Gengar-Mega, +Glalie-Mega, +Glimmora-Mega, +Golisopod-Mega, +Golurk-Mega, +Greninja-Mega, +Gyarados-Mega, +Hawlucha-Mega, +Heatran-Mega, +Heracross-Mega, +Houndoom-Mega, +Kangaskhan-Mega, +Latias-Mega, +Latios-Mega, +Lopunny-Mega, +Lucario-Mega, +Lucario-Mega-Z, +Magearna-Mega, +Magearna-Original-Mega, +Malamar-Mega, +Manectric-Mega, +Mawile-Mega, +Medicham-Mega, +Meganium-Mega, +Meowstic-F-Mega, +Meowstic-M-Mega, +Metagross-Mega, +Pidgeot-Mega, +Pinsir-Mega, +Pyroar-Mega, +Raichu-Mega-X, +Raichu-Mega-Y, +Sableye-Mega, +Salamence-Mega, +Sceptile-Mega, +Scizor-Mega, +Scolipede-Mega, +Scovillain-Mega, +Scrafty-Mega, +Sharpedo-Mega, +Slowbro-Mega, +Skarmory-Mega, +Staraptor-Mega, +Starmie-Mega, +Steelix-Mega, +Swampert-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Curly-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Droopy-Mega, +Tatsugiri-Stretchy-Mega, +Tyranitar-Mega, +Venusaur-Mega, +Victreebel-Mega, +Zeraora-Mega, -Arceus-Dark, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Ditto, -Manaphy, -Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera, -Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera, -Ogerpon-Teal-Tera, -Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera, -Smeargle, -Ursaring, -Zacian-Crowned, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Moody, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Baton Pass, -Belly Drum, -Last Respects, -Population Bomb, -Rising Voltage, -Shell Smash, -King’s Rock, -Razor Fang
Resources
Grassceus Balance by aidan amoongus
Palkia Sun by TheTrueLtaker
Rage Fist Fightceus Balance by BandedBodyPress
4 and a Half HO by BandedBodyPress
Deoxys-Attack Hazard Stack by sleepyfwog
BH-Style Stall by Cherry786
2 Bugs and a Dream by Clas
| POKEMON: Grouped into tiers, sorted alphabetically | ABILITIES: Sorted alphabetically, primary abilities are bolded |
| S RANK: Metagame-Defining threats | |
| Arceus-Water | Liquid Voice, Mega Launcher, Regenerator, Sheer Force, Unaware |
| Mega Chesnaught | Poison Heal |
| Regigigas | Adaptability |
 Slaking | Adaptability |
| A RANK: Important Pokemon in the tier | |
| A+ | |
| Arceus-Fairy | Intimidate, Magic Guard, Pixilate, Unaware |
| Arceus-Ghost | Fluffy |
| Mega Floette | Triage, Magic Guard |
| Mega Garchomp Z | Dragon's Maw, Sheer Force |
| Kyogre | Drizzle, Regenerator, Unaware |
| A | |
| Arceus-Bug | Multitype, Tinted Lens |
| Mega Darkrai | Fur Coat |
| Deoxys-Attack | Magic Guard |
| Miraidon | Hadron Engine |
| A- | |
| Arceus-Grass | Contrary, Poison Heal |
| Dondozo | Drizzle, Regenerator, Unaware |
| Eternatus | Adaptability |
 Mega Gengar | Levitate |
| Solgaleo | Levitate |
| Zacian | Intimidate, Magic Guard, Pixilate, Unaware |
| Zacian-Crowned | Intrepid Sword* |
| Zamazenta-Crowned | Dauntless Shield* |
| B RANK: Pokemon with valuable roles in the tier | |
| B+ | |
| Arceus | Download, Adaptability |
| Arceus-Fighting | Regenerator |
| Arceus-Fire | Drought |
 Dusclops | Fluffy |
| Ho-oh | Regenerator |
 Houndoom-Mega | Beads of Ruin |
| Palkia-Origin | Protosynthesis |
| Zamazenta | Regenerator |
| B | |
 Mega Aggron | Earth Eater |
 Alakazam-Mega | Magic Guard |
| Mega Blaziken | Reckless, Speed Boost |
| Chansey | Intimidate, Natural Cure, Thick Fat |
 Cresselia | Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Unaware |
| Dialga-Origin | Stamina |
| Mega Drampa | Regenerator |
 Mega Greninja | Adaptability |
 Mega Magearna | Soul Heart |
| Palafin-Hero | Adaptability |
| Mega Pinsir | Adaptability, Tinted Lens, Technician, Speed Boost |
| Reshiram | Protosynthesis |
 Mega Starmie | Dazzling |
 Zeraora-Mega | Transistor, Levitate |
| B- | |
 Mega Ampharos | Hadron Engine |
 Arceus-Steel | Earth Eater |
| Blissey | Intimidate, Natural Cure, Thick Fat |
 Mega Chandelure | Weak Armor |
 Mega Gallade | Sharpness |
| Meloetta | Psychic Surge |
| Ogerpon-Hearthflame | Chlorophyll |
 Mega Slowbro | Regenerator |
| C RANK: Reserved for Pokemon that have a small niche, but do not stand out particularly well except on specific teams or team styles. | |
| C+ | |
| Arceus-Flying | Regenerator |
 Mega Beedrill | Tinted Lens |
| Dragapult | Levitate |
| Giratina-Origin | Levitate |
| Koraidon | Orichalcum Pulse |
| Kyurem-Black | Ice Body, Teravolt |
| Lugia | Tinted Lens, Sheer Force |
| Necrozma-Dusk-Mane | Levitate |
| Mega Salamence | Intimidate |
 Mega Sceptile | Regenerator |
 Mega Skarmory | Weak Armor |
 Mega Venusaur | Regenerator |
| C | |
 Dragonite-Mega | Intimidate |
 Mega Emboar | Speed Boost, Reckless |
| Groudon | Mold Breaker, Stamina |
| Kyurem-White | Turboblaze |
 Mega Metagross | Levitate, Quark Drive |
 Ogerpon-Wellspring | Swift Swim |
 Scolipede-Mega | Tinted Lens |
 Terapagos-Stellar | Intimidate, Natural Cure, Thick Fat |
 Urshifu Rapid Strike | Swift Swim |
| Zekrom | Hadron Engine, Protosynthesis |
| C- | |
 Mega Audino | Huge Power |
 Zapdos | Volt Absorb |
Watchlist
ArceusArceus-BugMega Floette
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UMIX UMIX UMIX
https://pokepast.es/951e03b36f5b9d65
This team is pretty bog standard but its worked very well for me on both my main and sus test accounts for the past week that I’ve been playing the format, so I thought I’d post it so others can also play this fun ass format.
Grass/Steel @ Heatranite - This Mon is the GOAT and there’s no way I haven’t seen anyone else use this type combo. Rlly bulky and has effectively no special weaknesses (no special
Fighting moves exist), and the combination of grav apple, gigaton hammer, and swords dance and its crazy bulk makes it extremely hard to switch into. Most teams can only try and blank it with a fat steel type but those just get worn down by grav apple and end up losing the 1v1. Also a very good defensive Mon with its bulk and power letting it take hits and nuke the offensive mons back into their pokeballs. Broken af, make sure u mega it early though because the team needs flash fire to survive defensively lol.
Water/Fairy @ Sablenite - Standard water fairy, defensive cornerstone, walls everything physical and has good spdef too. It’s also not passive because of its 200 attack spirit break and steam eruptions that hit hard enough and burn. I did steam eruption>scald cuz the pp doesn’t matter on this sort of team and the higher power + more importantly burn chance is a very nice upside. Not much else to say here.
Normal/Ghost @ Scolipite - tbh this Mon mostly got into team as a pivot + secondary physical wall. Also does hazard control with court change and is the physical unaware incase anything goes too wrong. Rage fist stops it from being passive as well.
Ghost/Ground @ lucarionite - first nuke physical attacker. Ghost/Ground is nearly impossible to wall as it hits almost everything neutrally and the high bp of its moves, and volt switch maintains momentum and chips down defensive mons too. Volt tackle is 100% accurate and hits water fairy mons super effectively too. The bane of this mons existence is its imperfect accuracy, click precipice blades under pain of missing. Download is on this Mon as it pivots out multiple times.
Normal/Flying @ Aerodactylite - Priority is broken, and stab extreme speed even more so. I chose aerodactylite cuz feraligite is terrible: Dragon is a worse offensive type as fairy exists, and the boost to dragon ascent makes the Mon so much scarier. Extreme speed hits extremely hard and can OHKO many offensive mons even with reasonable bulk, letting u revenge set up mons and 654 speed mons without risking a speed tie. The last move can be whatever, I chose waterfall purely for flinch hax. Magic guard protects u from stealth rock, don’t rlly know what else to use.
Water/Dark @ blue orb - normal good old wigglet. Wave crash and liquidation are both used depending on if u want raw power or if u want to preserve ur wigletts HP. Wood hammer nukes the water types used to check it, can also be used as a lure of sorts as well. I forwent aqua jet as I already had priority in the form of extreme speed
I think a prelim VR or even viability list, even if it’s not entirely accurate, with typings and stones is very necessary for the format and would go a long way to help make it more accessible to everyone. See yall on the ladder!
https://pokepast.es/951e03b36f5b9d65
This team is pretty bog standard but its worked very well for me on both my main and sus test accounts for the past week that I’ve been playing the format, so I thought I’d post it so others can also play this fun ass format.
Grass/Steel @ Heatranite - This Mon is the GOAT and there’s no way I haven’t seen anyone else use this type combo. Rlly bulky and has effectively no special weaknesses (no specialFighting moves exist), and the combination of grav apple, gigaton hammer, and swords dance and its crazy bulk makes it extremely hard to switch into. Most teams can only try and blank it with a fat steel type but those just get worn down by grav apple and end up losing the 1v1. Also a very good defensive Mon with its bulk and power letting it take hits and nuke the offensive mons back into their pokeballs. Broken af, make sure u mega it early though because the team needs flash fire to survive defensively lol.
Water/Fairy @ Sablenite - Standard water fairy, defensive cornerstone, walls everything physical and has good spdef too. It’s also not passive because of its 200 attack spirit break and steam eruptions that hit hard enough and burn. I did steam eruption>scald cuz the pp doesn’t matter on this sort of team and the higher power + more importantly burn chance is a very nice upside. Not much else to say here. Normal/Ghost @ Scolipite - tbh this Mon mostly got into team as a pivot + secondary physical wall. Also does hazard control with court change and is the physical unaware incase anything goes too wrong. Rage fist stops it from being passive as well. Ghost/Ground @ lucarionite - first nuke physical attacker. Ghost/Ground is nearly impossible to wall as it hits almost everything neutrally and the high bp of its moves, and volt switch maintains momentum and chips down defensive mons too. Volt tackle is 100% accurate and hits water fairy mons super effectively too. The bane of this mons existence is its imperfect accuracy, click precipice blades under pain of missing. Download is on this Mon as it pivots out multiple times. Normal/Flying @ Aerodactylite - Priority is broken, and stab extreme speed even more so. I chose aerodactylite cuz feraligite is terrible: Dragon is a worse offensive type as fairy exists, and the boost to dragon ascent makes the Mon so much scarier. Extreme speed hits extremely hard and can OHKO many offensive mons even with reasonable bulk, letting u revenge set up mons and 654 speed mons without risking a speed tie. The last move can be whatever, I chose waterfall purely for flinch hax. Magic guard protects u from stealth rock, don’t rlly know what else to use. Water/Dark @ blue orb - normal good old wigglet. Wave crash and liquidation are both used depending on if u want raw power or if u want to preserve ur wigletts HP. Wood hammer nukes the water types used to check it, can also be used as a lure of sorts as well. I forwent aqua jet as I already had priority in the form of extreme speedI think a prelim VR or even viability list, even if it’s not entirely accurate, with typings and stones is very necessary for the format and would go a long way to help make it more accessible to everyone. See yall on the ladder!
Megamons Convergence has unbanned Stakeout and Speedboost!
BandedBodyPress | cherry786 | aidan amoongus | |
STAKEOUT | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN |
SPEEDBOOST | DNUB | UNBAN | UNBAN |
The council has unanimously decided to unban Stakeout and Speedboost. The reason for this was simple; Stakeout was not really gamebreaking since its donors are comprised of Dark, Normal and Bug types, all of which use better abilities than Stakeout (Fur Coat, Adaptability/Sheer Force etc, Tinted Lens) hence why it was unbanned.
Speed boost on the other hand, seems controversial, since we know the terror
is, and with speed boost is a man made horror. But the meta being so bulky, it was unbanned because both of them are pretty counterable, and MMY has better abilities to take advantage of. Aside from those, there's not noteworthy users of the ability, besides Mega-Emboar.Watchlist:
(speed boost) Floette is a nasty mon, capable of using triage or MGLO sets to dominate matches and force teras. Blaziken-M, MMY, both abuse speed boost to a great extent, hence why watchlisted. Speed boost is self explanatory.
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>Unanamimous decisionMegamons Convergence has unbanned Stakeout and Speedboost!
The council has unanimously decided to unban Stakeout and Speedboost. The reason for this was simple; Stakeout was not really gamebreaking since its donors are comprised of Dark, Normal and Bug types, all of which use better abilities than Stakeout (Fur Coat, Adaptability/Sheer Force etc, Tinted Lens) hence why it was unbanned.
Speed boost on the other hand, seems controversial, since we know the terror
Watchlist:
Floette is a nasty mon, capable of using triage or MGLO sets to dominate matches and force teras. Blaziken-M, MMY, both abuse speed boost to a great extent, hence why watchlisted. Speed boost is self explanatory.
>Looks inside
>Not unanimous
it’s unanimous in spirit
Convergence Megamons has banned Mega Mewtwo Y and Ursaring!
BandedBodyPress | aidanamoongus | Cherry786 | Sleepyfwog | |
MMY | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN |
Regigigas | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
Slaking | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
Ursaring | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN |
Arceus-base | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
In two unanimous decisions (for real this time) we decided to ban MMY and Ursaring. The reasoning is as follows:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot
For Mega Mewtwo Y, it’s solely due to the fact that it’s busted as hell. The legendary megas: Rayquaza, Mewtwo X, and Zygarde, are all banned now (Latios and Latias don’t count and are bad).
The reason MMY was able to evade bans for so long is that it was competing with the faster Mega Alakazam and Deoxys-Attack. Where MMY can beat them is that it does more damage, yes even more than Deoxys, and can actually take a hit sometimes. Prime example of this is Gigas and Slaking not being able to OHKO MMY without sinking a tera. “But couldn’t you just set spikes or rocks to get it into range?” you ask. Well that’s part of where it’s optimal set kick in. Magic Guard Life Orb. It was strong enough already. But it runs Nasty Plot MGLO because it can. Mono Psychic has the biggest movepool, so even if you try to bring something that can take a Photon Geyser, you may not be able to resist a Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Moonblast, Dark Pulse, etc. Unaware can’t even beat it, it has Photon Geyser. The only way to consistently beat it without sinking a predictable tera is to outspeed and kill it. What does that? Mega Greninja and ChompZ pretty much.
Regigigas/Slaking @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Ursaring is not good at all. Why was it banned?
Well, Convergence. With Convergence, you ideally want to ban the Mons themselves that become overpowered. We just banned MMY, in large part due to its MGLO set, rather than banning all of the Solosis line. With Mono Normal, the problem is a little more complex.
Recently, the ZU Normals have been completely barreling through Pokemon slower and bulkier than them and Pokemon stronger and faster than them. STAB Facade and Espeed are very strong coming from 160 base attack. Mega Chesnaught is 2hkoed, even after Pheal recovery. Dondozo is 2hkoed. It's typical coverage move is Earthquake, so Arceus-Ghost can't even leverage Fluffy against it, and can be 2hkoed at +2. After Rocks, Darkrai-Mega is OHKOed at +2. Facade does so much that Earth Eater Arceus-Steel is easily 2hkoed at +2. Your best shot is Levitate Mega Gengar
Long story short the ZU normals are very very strong at the moment. Banning Ursaring, the only mono normal this gen with Guts, gets rid of Guts for Mono Normal types. One thing that's consistent in OMs/Mashups that give you more agency over your ability is that ZU normals will be busted, for obvious reasons. We would rather have them in a meta with such a high power level, so this is our one attempt to rehabilitate them.
What happens from here is that they will most likely pivot to Adaptability Lorb. With this set up, Extreme Speed is actually around 15% stronger. Going from Facade to Double Edge ends up being .9% weaker, with more recoil. Earthquake is now 33% weaker, so this ban ends up mostly being a buff to Arceus-Ghost.
Watchlist
If you read any of that, you'll understand that Regigigas and Slaking are the sole members of our watchlist at the moment.
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My Opinions on the CFMNM Banlist
While the council has done a great job on balancing this meta, there are still a few things that I would personally change about the banlist. I'll start with my least controversial takes and end with ones that many people probably do not agree with. If you are a council member that disagrees with my opinions, please correct me and provide reasons why I am wrong.
1. Ban Intrepid Sword or Zacian
To start us off, I have a take that is probably very widespread: ban Intrepid Sword or Zacian. Obviously, Intrepid Sword is one of (if not the) most powerful pre-mega abilities in the format. A free 1.5x multiplier to damage is absolutely nothing to scoff at, letting mons such as 
Great Tusk, Regieleki, and Zamazenta absolutely plow through would-be walls as well as turning 2HKOs into OHKOs. This is already on the watchlist, but I really want to emphasize just how horrible this ability is for the meta. Unless you're running an Unaware mon (and some of them can't even live!), you will easily be OHKOed by, for example, a +1 
Lopunnite Zamazenta Close Combat. Please ban this. I believe it's only necessary to ban Intrepid Sword, but a stat boost of 30/28/20/28/34 is absolutely broken in its own right, so you could ban Zacian instead.
2. Unban Quick Claw (maybe
Razor Fang and 
King's Rock too, but if you're not banning them then ban 
Bright Powder)
You might be thinking, "You're crazy. These items are too RNG-based to be healthy for the meta." And you would be right... if this wasn't Mix and Mega. To Mega Evolve, you need to hold a Mega Stone (no, really!???). This means that you're giving up one of these items for, in my opinion, a much more influential power boost. For this reason, the only way these very situational items would actually see play is on Ubers. And tell me, which Uber would actually make good use of a Quick Claw?
*crickets chirping*
Additionally, I would also unban Razor Fang and King's Rock for the same reasons, but if these items are truly too broken, then feel free to also ban Bright Powder, a very similar (and arguably more broken) item.
(Edit: So I just realized that King's Rock and Razor Fang were the same item, I fixed it so it hopefully makes more sense now)
3. Unban Magnet Pull, Toxic Debris, and possibly Unburden
All of these abilities would be really good in a normal Frantic Fusions meta (except one, looking at you Magnet Pull), but we have to remember that this isn't only Frantic Fusions, it's also Mix and Mega. Guess how many of these abilities can be received through Mega Evolution? That's right, none of them. Does this drawback seem familiar? It's the exact same reason why Quick Claw, Razor Fang, King's Rock, and Bright Powder should be unbanned. Now, looking at the current meta, we can observe that Steel currently seems to be the most coveted type. With Magnet Pull, those Steel types will finally meet their match. Toxic Debris is pretty tame for similar reasons, but Toxic Debris mons also have to worry about Poison and Flying types ruining their days. A Toxic Debris unban would also encourage players to run more hazard control, one aspect of teams that I feel many players have been dropping. An Unburden unban does seem a little bit strange, but it would probably only see play on 
Weakness Policy or 
Power Herb Ubers, which could easily die to the other insane sweepers in the meta or get sniped by an Extreme Speed. Additionally, by using Weakness Policy Unburden, as long as the opponent doesn't hit you with a weak, super-effective move, you will have no item and no ability for the entire game.
4. UnbanDeoxys and Deoxys-Attack
Hear me out on this one. I know this sounds crazy, but all Deoxys formes should be allowed in CFMNM. This is because of the large abundance of priority moves such as Extreme Speed, Extreme Speed, and Extreme Speed running rampant in the meta, and I'm pretty sure Deoxys will just die to a priority move if it's not holding a 
Focus Sash. ( Deoxys and Deoxys-Attack cannot Mega Evolve, so their bulk can't really improve.) Additionally, the Poison / Dark types and Ghost / Dark types of the format will really feast on this thing. The only way I see these mons being viable is on a PsySpam team, but this would just amplify their Dark weakness even more.
Additional note: Unban Numel, Komala, and Persian-Alola but ban Simple, Comatose, and Fur Coat
This won't really change anything, but if Komala is someone's favorite mon, you should probably let them use it. This would preserve a ban on these broken abilities while also allowing people a little more freedom in the teambuilder. It probably doesn't matter, but if the council would like to optimize the banlist, they should really shift these bans.
While the council has done a great job on balancing this meta, there are still a few things that I would personally change about the banlist. I'll start with my least controversial takes and end with ones that many people probably do not agree with. If you are a council member that disagrees with my opinions, please correct me and provide reasons why I am wrong.
1. Ban Intrepid Sword or
ZacianTo start us off, I have a take that is probably very widespread: ban Intrepid Sword or
Zacian. Obviously, Intrepid Sword is one of (if not the) most powerful pre-mega abilities in the format. A free 1.5x multiplier to damage is absolutely nothing to scoff at, letting mons such as Great Tusk, Regieleki, and Zamazenta absolutely plow through would-be walls as well as turning 2HKOs into OHKOs. This is already on the watchlist, but I really want to emphasize just how horrible this ability is for the meta. Unless you're running an Unaware mon (and some of them can't even live!), you will easily be OHKOed by, for example, a +1 Lopunnite Zamazenta Close Combat. Please ban this. I believe it's only necessary to ban Intrepid Sword, but a stat boost of 30/28/20/28/34 is absolutely broken in its own right, so you could ban Zacian instead.2. Unban
Quick Claw (maybe Razor Fang and King's Rock too, but if you're not banning them then ban Bright Powder)You might be thinking, "You're crazy. These items are too RNG-based to be healthy for the meta." And you would be right... if this wasn't Mix and Mega. To Mega Evolve, you need to hold a Mega Stone (no, really!???). This means that you're giving up one of these items for, in my opinion, a much more influential power boost. For this reason, the only way these very situational items would actually see play is on Ubers. And tell me, which Uber would actually make good use of a
Quick Claw?*crickets chirping*
Additionally, I would also unban
Razor Fang and King's Rock for the same reasons, but if these items are truly too broken, then feel free to also ban Bright Powder, a very similar (and arguably more broken) item.(Edit: So I just realized that King's Rock and Razor Fang were the same item, I fixed it so it hopefully makes more sense now)
3. Unban Magnet Pull, Toxic Debris, and possibly Unburden
All of these abilities would be really good in a normal Frantic Fusions meta (except one, looking at you Magnet Pull), but we have to remember that this isn't only Frantic Fusions, it's also Mix and Mega. Guess how many of these abilities can be received through Mega Evolution? That's right, none of them. Does this drawback seem familiar? It's the exact same reason why
Quick Claw, Razor Fang, King's Rock, and Bright Powder should be unbanned. Now, looking at the current meta, we can observe that Steel currently seems to be the most coveted type. With Magnet Pull, those Steel types will finally meet their match. Toxic Debris is pretty tame for similar reasons, but Toxic Debris mons also have to worry about Poison and Flying types ruining their days. A Toxic Debris unban would also encourage players to run more hazard control, one aspect of teams that I feel many players have been dropping. An Unburden unban does seem a little bit strange, but it would probably only see play on Weakness Policy or Power Herb Ubers, which could easily die to the other insane sweepers in the meta or get sniped by an Extreme Speed. Additionally, by using Weakness Policy Unburden, as long as the opponent doesn't hit you with a weak, super-effective move, you will have no item and no ability for the entire game.4. Unban
Deoxys and Deoxys-AttackHear me out on this one. I know this sounds crazy, but all
Deoxys formes should be allowed in CFMNM. This is because of the large abundance of priority moves such as Extreme Speed, Extreme Speed, and Extreme Speed running rampant in the meta, and I'm pretty sure Deoxys will just die to a priority move if it's not holding a Focus Sash. ( Deoxys and Deoxys-Attack cannot Mega Evolve, so their bulk can't really improve.) Additionally, the Poison / Dark types and Ghost / Dark types of the format will really feast on this thing. The only way I see these mons being viable is on a PsySpam team, but this would just amplify their Dark weakness even more.Additional note: Unban Numel, Komala, and Persian-Alola but ban Simple, Comatose, and Fur Coat
This won't really change anything, but if Komala is someone's favorite mon, you should probably let them use it. This would preserve a ban on these broken abilities while also allowing people a little more freedom in the teambuilder. It probably doesn't matter, but if the council would like to optimize the banlist, they should really shift these bans.
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Hi council here.My Opinions on the CFMNM Banlist
While the council has done a great job on balancing this meta, there are still a few things that I would personally change about the banlist. I'll start with my least controversial takes and end with ones that many people probably do not agree with. If you are a council member that disagrees with my opinions, please correct me and provide reasons why I am wrong.
1. Ban Intrepid Sword or
To start us off, I have a take that is probably very widespread: ban Intrepid Sword or
2. Unban
You might be thinking, "You're crazy. These items are too RNG-based to be healthy for the meta." And you would be right... if this wasn't Mix and Mega. To Mega Evolve, you need to hold a Mega Stone (no, really!???). This means that you're giving up one of these items for, in my opinion, a much more influential power boost. For this reason, the only way these very situational items would actually see play is on Ubers. And tell me, which Uber would actually make good use of a
*crickets chirping*
Additionally, I would also unban
(Edit: So I just realized that King's Rock and Razor Fang were the same item, I fixed it so it hopefully makes more sense now)
3. Unban Magnet Pull, Toxic Debris, and possibly Unburden
All of these abilities would be really good in a normal Frantic Fusions meta (except one, looking at you Magnet Pull), but we have to remember that this isn't only Frantic Fusions, it's also Mix and Mega. Guess how many of these abilities can be received through Mega Evolution? That's right, none of them. Does this drawback seem familiar? It's the exact same reason why
4. Unban
Hear me out on this one. I know this sounds crazy, but all
Additional note: Unban Numel, Komala, and Persian-Alola but ban Simple, Comatose, and Fur Coat
This won't really change anything, but if Komala is someone's favorite mon, you should probably let them use it. This would preserve a ban on these broken abilities while also allowing people a little more freedom in the teambuilder. It probably doesn't matter, but if the council would like to optimize the banlist, they should really shift these bans.
1. Zacian ability is undoubtedly in contest for the best ability, maybe it is. But the fact that so many steels exist with so much variablity, considering some of the legends run fluffy (i.e arceus, eternatus, lugia, giratina[this one enjoys regen more) and with dozo being a viable unaware donor,
28 defense is very good, the highest defense donated, and on a mon with good recovery, nothing can touch it. Fluffy, Intim, (idk how people forgot about manectite that stone is so good on stall and balance)
Keep in mind a lot of the tier can abuse to this to a high degree, and with phazers available on every single one of the mentioned pokemon, Zacian's ability can be kept in check.
Most Zacian users either 1. use lopunnite 2. use diancite. and if you use lopunnite, your practically screwed vs a fluffy/unaware. Diancite means you are revenge killed very easily.
2. Uncompetitive. Not fun to play vs a Kyurem-Black spamming Skill Link King's Rock at your mons. 51% chance to flinch is not getting unbanned, no matter how much you want to use it. Bright Powder in other case is not really broken, considering you run this on a Legend who's there for bulk and not cringe missing, even so, you have SO much loss using bright powder over any other item, considering you can just get blown up, but if someone finds the absolute abhorrent strategy (i have been building for this a while, should be team dump soon) its not worth it.
3. Magnet Pull is shadow tag for the half the mons and promotes HO and Offense by a really really high degree. absurdly high, if you ask me. The game eventually becomes so catered towards offense that it genuinely is a bad tier to play. Toxic Debris, will be unbanned soon (oversight likely).
Unburden also may be unbanned, but no spoilers. New ban slate soon.
4.
The only reason Hoopa-U is banned because it's a crazy good mixed donator. Mons like Ival go from hard hitters, to Hydrogen bombs.
deoxys-a and deoxys are not banned cuz of their structure as a mon, (albeit they would be worse as mons themselves, I seriously do not know why you think an 206 spattack and 173 speed mon with a 156 move is balanced) Outside that, it's donations are infinitely worse. Literally regieleki is a B+ tier donor at best, because it donates okayish offense with the best speed. This is literally the best donor in the game, excellent speed, absurdly high offenses, and a really nice speed donation.
You'd argue CIR is worse, Rampardos, no, they offer high attack and bulk in exchange for 0 speed. Zacian is only a physical donor, and it's hard countered by a lot of the meta. These guys donate an insane statspread.
This guy can still Mega-Evolve.
FTR, after a diancite, its 74/235/55/225/25/213. and you can't even go wrong with a stupidly bulky mon with this as a donor.
5. These bans are carryovers from but will be banned, unbanned, will see in the very near future.
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Another council member here.My Opinions on the CFMNM Banlist
While the council has done a great job on balancing this meta, there are still a few things that I would personally change about the banlist. I'll start with my least controversial takes and end with ones that many people probably do not agree with. If you are a council member that disagrees with my opinions, please correct me and provide reasons why I am wrong.
1. Ban Intrepid Sword or
To start us off, I have a take that is probably very widespread: ban Intrepid Sword or
2. Unban
You might be thinking, "You're crazy. These items are too RNG-based to be healthy for the meta." And you would be right... if this wasn't Mix and Mega. To Mega Evolve, you need to hold a Mega Stone (no, really!???). This means that you're giving up one of these items for, in my opinion, a much more influential power boost. For this reason, the only way these very situational items would actually see play is on Ubers. And tell me, which Uber would actually make good use of a
*crickets chirping*
Additionally, I would also unban
(Edit: So I just realized that King's Rock and Razor Fang were the same item, I fixed it so it hopefully makes more sense now)
3. Unban Magnet Pull, Toxic Debris, and possibly Unburden
All of these abilities would be really good in a normal Frantic Fusions meta (except one, looking at you Magnet Pull), but we have to remember that this isn't only Frantic Fusions, it's also Mix and Mega. Guess how many of these abilities can be received through Mega Evolution? That's right, none of them. Does this drawback seem familiar? It's the exact same reason why
4. Unban
Hear me out on this one. I know this sounds crazy, but all
Additional note: Unban Numel, Komala, and Persian-Alola but ban Simple, Comatose, and Fur Coat
This won't really change anything, but if Komala is someone's favorite mon, you should probably let them use it. This would preserve a ban on these broken abilities while also allowing people a little more freedom in the teambuilder. It probably doesn't matter, but if the council would like to optimize the banlist, they should really shift these bans.
I'm personally for banning Zacian as well but I'm guessing we'll see how it goes. Also, I'm mostly agreeing on Cherry on points 2 and 3, but I doubt we're unbanning Unburden since legends can still use it quite effectively.
I guess we could unban Numel, Komala, and Persian-A but in FF formats, if there's 1 Pokemon with a broken ability, the Pokemon gets banned instead. I'm fine either way here though.
Lastly, why tf would be unbanning Deo-N and Deo-A? They have crazy coverage, insanely good stats and can also run Espeed in case you forgot. Not to mention said insane stats (which can run mixed, physical or special so very hard to answer) can be used as donors. (cough cough Diancite Valiant)
tbf theyre both legal (and ass) in regular mnm and i cant exactly see how regular deoxys is broken; its movepool is kinda massive doodoo and forces awkward sets. deo-a is worth testing imo but its more punishing than deo-n.
I'ma keep this short deo-a and normal deoxys give amazing stats as DONARS, and with the right stone or right item on the right Mon, it can go from manageable to down right insufferable to handle refer to cherries post to see exactly what I mean. also referring to WindySnivy_ post Zacian is definitely something the council has talked about banning or doing something about, for the item stuff I'm just gonna repeat what Cherry786 said. "2. Uncompetitive. Not fun to play vs a Kyurem-Black spamming Skill Link King's Rock at your mons. 51% chance to flinch is not getting unbanned, no matter how much you want to use it. Bright Powder in other case is not really broken, considering you run this on a Legend who's there for bulk and not cringe missing, even so, you have SO much loss using bright powder over any other item, considering you can just get blown up, but if someone finds the absolute abhorrent strategy (i have been building for this a while, should be team dump soon) its not worth it." When it comes to unbanning Toxic Debris/Unburden and Magnet pull, this is something that hasn't really been brought up much but one thing to say its highly unlikely magnet pull will be freed also about freeing Deo-a/Deo-n refer to cherries post for a better explanation of why they likely wont be freed not atleast for a decent bit.
Hey so thanks for the replies but you never addressed Quick Claw in the meta. Also, Kyurem-Black is INSANELY slow without a Scale Shot, and the Steel types that make Magnet Pull so "broken" really goob this thing due to its lack of EQ (as well as most fairies cooking it.) Also, as for Zacian fusions being cooked by Unaware, you have to remember that you only get 1 Unaware per team (oh yeah, I also think the format should have 2 Ability Clause), and if that Unaware is a physical wall, you are essentially giving up almost all means of stopping special attackers barring Regenerator Ho-Oh or Sablenite Florges. Fluffy can be easily be stopped by a physical move that isn't contact (think EQ, Fusion Bolt, Sacred Fire). Additionally, if your Fluffy or Unaware user has the wrong typing, it can still get obliterated by Zacian fusions with super-effective moves.
Edit: I forgot to mention that Great Tusk is really good into these mons that rely on their abilities to live hits.
Edit: I forgot to mention that Great Tusk is really good into these mons that rely on their abilities to live hits.
Best not to tbh, this is just tiering policy and "people want to use their favorite pokemon" isn't exactly a great reason to stray from it
Quick Claw with Quick Draw. Not much else to say. Good luck beating that.
I just gave an example on why it would be broken. Is Kyurem black better running scarf/band? absolutely. But the thing is theres Faster stuff than that who can abuse it strictly better. Stuff like Bullet Dance arceus would come up and demolish teams just cuz 51% flinchrate is busted. a lot of stuff would consider abusing it. It's just not healthy vs a Bright Powder who can give you a win in like 10% of the time. This kinda stuff has better RNG to work with.
If you're asking for 2 ability clause, I don't think so. The Zacian problem just gets worse, and instead of 1, you have to prep for 2. arceus is usually the physdef wall alongside eternatus and PHeal Groudon, and you can cover for a lot of typings provided you have good synergy.
Nitpicking on why Fluffy bad, etc. Fluffy is in no way stopped by a non-contact moves with this stat spread.
aside from EQ, which you have to almost always run on a PhysSweeper, the other moves are so non-existent. I guess not Sacred Fire, but Fusion Bolt is on 2 mons. Both of them see less usage (Kyurem-White is by far the better kyurem). Water/Flying arceus is a type ive been using a bit and practically no physical attacker can touch it just cuz theres no good physical coverage for electric.
Zacian is a one time ability. I've said this before, its highly counterable. Unaware/Fluffy/Phazing is ridiculously good for it, and if they are running Mold Breaker stone, they're not fast and can be revenge killed easily or forced out. If forced out, congrats! You nullified their one time boost.
Theres oppurtunity costs to everything.
special attackers have always been broken lol. Why do you think regenvest tusk is good considering you can just run Emboarite and be done with it, likewise
is just not getting unbanned simply cuz its far too good of a donor, statwise.
Never announced here, but UMix's suspect test has concluded with an implementation of 2 Ability Clause.
Is it really that good when 56% of the time you have no ability or item? Like I know this sounds pretty terrifying in theory but is it actually worth the commitment when your ability / item works every other turn against faster mons and never works against slower mons?
It's banned in ability based formats, just because there's better mons to abuse it other than Slowbro-G. No further explanation.
Also why is pex banned? Off the top of my head I can't figure out how it would be broken. Is it just the best Regenerator donor?
It isn't? I've been using it for a while and probably just a old one, not broken, soon updated
The forum post lists pex in the banlist, but upon further inspection it seems to be legal in the challenge code for some reason
I still have to adjust that when I get around to it.