Resource ORAS OU Sets Viability Ranking Thread v6

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| Banner by Sobi | Taken over from urban | Co-hosted by Hector Hard Mode | Format stolen from ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread |
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Welcome to the official OU Sets Viability Rankings. You should know the drill by now; in this thread, we as a community will rank every Pokemon's useable set into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various set rankings for each Pokemon. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.

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S Rank:

S Rank

Clefable
Calm Mind: S
Stealth Rock: A+
Unaware: B+

Landorus-T
Defensive: S
Choice Scarf: A+
Offensive Stealth Rock: A-
Double Dance: A-

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Diancie (Mega)
Physically Biased: A+
Specially Biased: A+
Rock Polish: B-

Heatran
Fast Utility: A+
Power Herb: A-
Specially Defensive: A-
Choice Scarf: B-

Keldeo
Choice Specs: A+
Choice Scarf: A
Sub+CM: A-
RestTalk: A-

Latios
Choice Specs: A+
Defog: A
Choice Scarf: A-
Calm Mind: A-

Lopunny (Mega)
All-out Attacker: A+

Medicham (Mega)
All-out Attacker: A+

Rotom-W
Physically Defensive: A+

Scizor (Mega)
Defensive Swords Dance: A+
Offensive Swords Dance: A-

Tornadus-T
Assault Vest: A+
Life Orb: A+

Tyranitar
Choice Band: A+
Choice Scarf: A
Support: B+

A Rank

Charizard (Mega-X)
Dragon Dance: A
Defensive: A-

Excadrill
Sand Rush: A
Choice Scarf: A-
Specially Defensive: B-

Ferrothorn
Utility: A

Garchomp
Swords Dance + Life Orb: A
Swords Dance + Stealth Rock: A
Tank: A
Mixed: A-
Choice Scarf: B+

Heracross (Mega)
Substitute: A
Swords Dance: B+

Jirachi
Utility: A
Choice Scarf: A
SubToxic: B+

Manaphy
Tail Glow + Rain Dance: A
Tail Glow + 3 Attacks: A
Calm Mind: B

Sableye (Mega)
Utility: A
Calm Mind: B

Slowbro
Calm Mind: A
Defensive: A

Talonflame
Offensive Swords Dance: A
Specially Defensive: A
Choice Band: B+

Thundurus
Nasty Plot: A
Thunder Wave + 3 Attacks: A-
Mixed: A-

Weavile
All-out Attacker: A
Swords Dance: A-
Choice Band: A-

A- Rank

Alakazam (Mega)
Special Attacker: A-

Azumarill
Belly Drum: A-
Choice Band: B+
Assault Vest: B

Bisharp
Swords Dance: A-
Pursuit: B-

Charizard (Mega-Y)
Special Attacker: A-

Gardevoir (Mega)
Special Attacker: A-

Gliscor
Swords Dance: A-

Metagross (Mega)
All-out Attacker: A-

Pinsir (Mega)
Swords Dance: A-

Serperior
SubSeed: A-
Life Orb: B+

Skarmory
Specially Defensive: A-
Physically Defensive: B+

Starmie
Offensive: A-
Defensive: A-

Tangrowth
Physically Defensive: A-
Assault Vest: B+

Terrakion
Choice Band: A-
Choice Scarf: B

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Amoonguss
Defensive: B+

Chansey
Defensive: B+

Crawdaunt
Swords Dance: B+
Choice Band: B+

Gengar
Life Orb: B+

Gyarados (Mega)
Dragon Dance: B+

Hippowdon
Physically Defensive: B+

Kyurem-B
Life Orb: B+
Choice Scarf: B
Choice Band: B

Latias
Utility: B+

Latias (Mega)
Utility: B+

Magnezone
Choice Specs: B+
Chople/Occa Berry: B+
Choice Scarf: B-

Manectric (Mega)
All-out Attacker: B+

Mew
Stallbreaker: B+

Nidoking
All-out Attacker: B+

Slowbro (Mega)
Calm Mind: B+

Suicune
Vincune: B+
Defensive: B+

Venusaur (Mega)
Defensive: B+
Offensive: B

Volcanion
Choice Specs: B+
Defensive: B-

B Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)
All-out Attacker: B

Alakazam
Life Orb: B
Focus Sash: B

Alomomola
Defensive: B

Altaria (Mega)
Defensive Dragon Dance: B
Mixed: B-
Offensive Dragon Dance: B-

Breloom
Life Orb: B
Focus Sash: B-

Dragonite
Choice Band: B
Sub + Fly: B
Dragon Dance: B

Gastrodon
Curse: B
Physically Defensive: B-

Gyarados
Dragon Dance: B

Hydreigon
Choice Specs: B
Life Orb: B
Choice Scarf: B-

Klefki
Utility: B

Quagsire
Defensive: B

Reuniclus
Calm Mind: B

Slowking
Calm Mind: B

Volcarona
Offensive Quiver Dance: B
Defensive Quiver Dance: B

Zapdos
Defensive: B

B- Rank

Celebi
Baton Pass: B-
Utility: B-

Diggersby
Choice Band: B-
Swords Dance: B-

Dugtrio
Trapper: B-

Kabutops
Swift Swim: B-

Kingdra
Swift Swim: B-

Kyurem
Choice Specs: B-
Sub + Roost: C+

Mamoswine
All-out Attacker: B-

Metagross
Assault Vest: B-

Politoed
Utility: B-

Raikou
Sub+CM: B-
Choice Specs: B-

Scizor
Choice Band: B-

Togekiss
Stallbreaker: B-

 

[false]

2 main points of discussion:

1) Do these sets deserve a separate rank?

: 3 Atk + Roost

: Expert Belt

: Pursuit

: Defensive Swords Dance

: AoA, Choice Band, SD

: Sap Sipper

: Substitute

: Lead

: Swords Dance

: Utility

: Substitute

: Specially Defensive

: Defog

: Baton Pass, Defog

: Pursuit

: Poison Heal

: Sub+Roost

2) Ranking Discussion Points:

Specially Defensive: A- --> A

Choice Scarf: A --> A-

Choice Scarf: A --> A+

Physically Defensive: B+ --> A-

Focus Sash: B --> B-

Mixed: B- --> B

 

[HailFall]

LO 3 Atks lati should be in A+, as even though it lacks the same power being a fairly reliable keld check is more than enough to secure that rank for it.

I dont think cb weavile deserves a seperate rank from AoA theyre basically the same thing with a different item.

Lead skarm is a relic of the past and an extremely matchup reliant + inconsistent pkmn. not to mention that suicide leads in general arent that great

Defog mega lati is super bad if its gonna be ranked it should be like B-/C+.

Sap sipper azu is like a D rank set. Unless youre ok with having a D set for an A- mon leaning no.

EDIT: o yea also this wasnt a discussion point but unaware clef is absolutely awful and should be like B- below quag. its definitely not a more viable unaware user

 

[SketchUp]

I'd just put it together with Defog and call it something like Offensive Utility

Nobody uses EBelt sets. Not relevant enough

Yeah Pursuit is decent. You could call it Pursuit but maybe Roost + 3 Attacks is better because I've never seen Pursuit on any other set than Roost + 3 Attacks, while that set also includes Knock + U-Turn + Bullet Punch + Roost for example

Isn't bulky SD just a Specially Defensive set?

What HailFall said

Even though this one actually saw tournament usage, I still say no because it barely gets any usage. If you decide to rank it, it should be higher than D though

I don't have any experience with this set so I can't really judge but I don't think this gets relevant usage either

Should be ranked. It isn't as predictable as Azelf and Spikes is also really nice on Latios/ Bisharp HO teams.

Not really popular but it's a pretty good set and more relevant than EBelt Jirachi / Sub MPinsir. Low B sounds okay for it

Definitely. The metagame is so overprepared for LO sets that utility sets like Wisp + Hex and SubSplit are pretty good lures.

Isn't this just DD?

One year ago I would have said yes, but atm I don't feel like Gengar, Max SpA MDiancie, NP Thundurus and Zard-Y are relevant enough to use this over PDef set, which already checks pokemon like NP Thundurus decently. Just viability wise it's a C+ / B- set but I doubt anybody ever uses this spread.

Defog is fine in low B / High C. Nice role compression for balanced teams

I don't have a strong opinion on Mew either. Defog is on the analysis and is used pretty often so why not. Baton Pass idk.

Yeah Pursuit is great. Also a B (maybe B-) set imo.

Worse than Technician in general but still a good pokemon against bulky teams, especially because it can't get statussed and trapped by Weavile/Dugtrio

Agreed, though C might be better.

EDIT: o yea also this wasnt a discussion point but unaware clef is absolutely awful and should be like B- below quag. its definitely not a more viable unaware user

You're really undervaluing how important Clefable is for (Semi-)Stall teams. It's the closest to a Manaphy / MHeracross counter bar some gimmicky pokemon like Shedinja/Doublade. Wish support, cleric support, hazard setter, knock off user (whatever you need in the 4th slot) are all niches appreciated by stall teams. I get that Quagsire also beats setup sweepers like BD Azu, DD Dragonite and SD Weavile, while also beating Zard-X and Bisharp, but that doesn't weigh up against beating MHera and Manaphy (+ the cleric support)

 

[Martin]

Considering that Defog MLati is basically restricted to teams which already carry regular Lati but happen to carry no other mega, I'm inclined to say that I don't think its worth listing. I've used it before and all it really does is slightly improve over Colbur variants of the worst of three viable moveset variants of Latias, but the power drop is very noticable relative to LO unless you're comparing max/max SpA/Spe MLati and 72-or-more HP LO Lati (72 HP isn't even good plz run more bulk) and it isn't as consistent at sponging hits as Lefties variants are either due to the lack of passive healing. Like, its far from a bad set in the traditional sense and I think that SketchUp's proposal is definitely worth considering, but just for me personally it feels like more of an extension to Defog Latias rather than it's own set.

 

[HailFall]

clef doesnt beat hera and manaphy at the same time. You need basically full spdef investment to beat manaphy without cm. You need full physdef to beat mhera. You choose one to beat but not both. on the other hand, quagsire beats nearly every physical booster in the tier, has scald, resists rocks, is less susceptible to status, and has been a staple almost on par with chansey for stall as long as ive been playing mons

 

[Terrakion.]

I'll just give a little something for each which is why I agree or disagree that they should get their own ranking. Just wanted to ask a quick question to get some clarity on this. If the Pokemon is B-, is the highest ranking they can get on a set B-?

3 Atks + Roost: I wouldn't because of how similar it is to its Defog set. Most Defog sets run three attacks anyways. Roost is of course a nice addition but really the main purpose of Latios is being the best Offensive defogger in the meta. I wouldn't mind if this had a separate rank but, if it were solely up to me I'd leave it left out.

Expert Belt: Not gonna lie, I always thought this was some team specific cheese, and I never really seen the use for it when Jirachi can be put to better use whether it'd be Choice Scarf or Specially Defensive which both are much easier to fit onto a team. I'd keep it away for now.

Pursuit: This gets used?

Defensive Swords Dance: Serves as a really nice wincon for a variety of teams and easy to fit onto teams. I think this set is pretty different from all of Talonflame's other sets and specific role on teams which is why I'd give it its own rank.

AoA, Choice Band, SD: The others deserve their own ranking, but I'm skeptical on SD, I always either preferred the nice coverage from Low Kick or be able to trap Pokemon with Pursuit. Not to mention that I've never actually seen SD outside of low ladder and like all low ladder People and their teams they underperform.

Sap Sipper: Seems extra team specific and I really see no point for this set where you can just partner a bulky grass that already goes well with Azumarill. Too much role compression for my liking and Sap Sipper Azu is match dependent sometimes. It isn't as consistent as other Azumarill sets. Leave it be.

And I'm honestly getting lazy doing the rest, the last couple posts explained things pretty thoroughly and I pretty much agree with it.

Specially Defensive Heatran: I think its fine in A-. Anytime I end up using Heatran, the fast utility just outperforms.
Choice Scarf Keldeo: this is still relevant? l o l. drop it
Choice Scarf Tyranitar: band > scarf but scarf is still a lord set. i wouldn't be happy or upset if this was to rise or stay. its a really good set.
Physically Defensive Skarmory
Focus Sash Alakazam: LO is just so much better to make up for how weak Alakazam could be sometimes.
Mixed Altaria: I think this should rise, its arguably the best set for Altaria letting it be less teammate reliant and being a hard Pokemon to switch into sometimes for teams.

 

[Martin]

CB Weavile is extremely team specific and bad 99% of the time as there is literally 1 team that it works on. Not to mention that it is just a variant on AoA. Don't separate. SD Weavile is its best set imo and I feel like it functions differently enough from AoA variants to the point that it warrants a separate ranking. I think it should be listed SD (A)>AoA (A) and just left at that.

Sap Sipper Azu is super team specific and its not worth listing if its gonna be 2 full ranks below the main sets. Same goes for Defog Scizor if I'm hinest. It works, but as a set it is B-/C+ at beat and that is just far too low relative to its other sets to the point that it's really not worth bothering with ranking.

Utility Gar is about as good as LO so it's worth ranking. SubSplit is the only set that's really worth using nowadays imo so if that comes under the umbrella of utility rank utility above LO and if not separate it out and probably put it above LO.

SubRoost Kyu is good and honestly if anything it should be higher. Agreeing with SketchUp with his proposal of C.

Also if you think that Unaware Clef is unviable you're missing the point of Unaware Clef; its fine where it is because it has its place on stall teams, and the thing about MHera/Mana is more that you can stop one of them autowinning while providing role compression; if you think you're gonna win vs. both of them in none teamslot you're barking mad, and PhysDef still wins vs. TG+3 attacks Mana anyway (especially modest Surf variants thar Chansey can't deal with) so it's really not that big a deal that you can't invest in SpD if you wanna beat MCross lol

 

[Freeroamer]

You can't combine Defog Latios and 3 atks Roost, they're definitely apart in viability and when people use them. A lot of popular opinion right now is that people only use Defog Lati when they're forced to, treating it as a sadly necessary evil whereas they use the 3 atks set because it's genuinely threatening while still offering some defensive niche. Obviously Defog Latios has to be classed as reasonably viable, I'm not saying it doesn't but if anything the reason why it gets ranked highly is more due to the shortage of good defoggers than it actually being a great set. 3 Attacks should be a subrank above Defog, whether that means placing it in A+ alongside Specs or pushing Defog down to A- and putting 3 atks in A.

 

[HailFall]

please read my post??? i never caled unaware clef unviable but its niche even on hard stall and the utility quagsire provides to a stall team is much more important (checking like 80% of the tier's physical attackers comes to mind)

like putting unaware clef in a rank that makes it on par with CHANSEY, the pokemon that has defined stall throughout this generation is just absurd. Its not that viable.

 

[Martin]

please read my post??? i never caled unaware clef unviable but its niche even on hard stall and the utility quagsire provides to a stall team is much more important (checking like 80% of the tier's physical attackers comes to mind)

like putting unaware clef in a rank that makes it on par with CHANSEY, the pokemon that has defined stall throughout this generation is just absurd. Its not that viable.

I did read your post. It was more along the lines that things typically get unranked if they are below about 4-5 subranks below the actual 'mon's rank. Suggesting putting an S rank Pokémon's set in B- implies that it's a set that you find unviable given the history of this thread's attitude to big disparities between rank and 'mon, so sorry if I misinterpreted that and it's just more along the lines that you haven't followed the way ranking has functioned in here in the past, but ultimately it is just a part of the issue with the way that sets are arranged that is why I think B+ is fine. Obviously it's not better than Chansey or Quagsire, but on the flipside there's no way in hell that it is a full 6 subranks worse than regular CM is in that it's not so bad to warrent a full unrank (which is what typically happens with such immense differences).

 

[dream light]

I have a few minutes today so I thought I'd go over a few of the thoughts posted here. Gonna start from the top and work my way down.

SketchUp I don't think it's fair for you to reason that EBelt Jirachi isn't used, therefore irrelevant, and then mention that Breloom deserves a Poison Heal set when it's just as rarely used and in my opinion about as viable as EBelt Jirachi. Mind you I think that both can be effective with support but are extremely niche, like I've never really thought "Poison Heal Breloom is a great 'mon to handle this opponent" as a stallbreaker and I certainly don't look to Jirachi as my first lure for a sweeper even though something along the lines of Iron Head / Icy Wind / Energy Ball / Hidden Power Ground or Fire or Thunderbolt here can be extremely effective. I'm pretty ambivalent about Sap Sipper Azu though given that it has that huge disparity between sets so I'd probably be fine taking it off.

HailFall and Martin. CB Weavile really isn't just an extension of Weavile AoA given that as a Pursuiter Weavile appreciates not taking recoil (hint: already Rocks weak) and not having to risk Pursuit not killing if they stay in from higher percentages. There's a huge difference between 65-76 using Life Orb if they stay in and killing most of the time after Stealth Rock and one Orb round on Latios. Also on the whole Unaware Clefable business while I appreciate that Clefable has trouble handling both Manaphy and Mega Heracross at the same time 1: it's kind of dumb to have a huge set disparity between S and like B- especially when this is a resource for newer players that will probably already confuse them and 2: Unaware Clefable can actually fit onto other archetypes like some semi-stalls and balances as a hard Manaphy / actual Thundurus wall (unlike MG which can just get Plotted on and die and Chansey which actually can lose to Plotted Focus) while Chansey, as much as the OU room says Chansey balance can work, does not.

I think it'd be a travesty to call Chansey more viable than Unaware Clefable given that Mega Slowbro is also ranked the same as Chansey in the official VR. I definitely don't think Unaware Clefable is that much worse than Mega Slowbro which has a host of issues related to being total Rotom Wisp bait, hating (and potentially being Pursuited) by Band Tyranitar, and being crippled by Toxic on the daily. I also don't think that the reasoning of it being used over Quagsire is relevant either HailFall you're obviously not going to use it to check opposing ZardX and I don't think anyone here posited that it should be used over Quagsire for those reasons.

On the point of Defog Mega Latias I don't think it's accurate to call it an extension of Defog regular Latias when it has a substantially better margin of bulk against Charizard-Y, doesn't face the same shenanigans of Roost vs Healing Wish, and can provide a better answer than Latias when clearing say Skarmory's Spikes which is crucial for a few balances in particular. I don't think it's that good but on a team that needs a Mega (hint: there are teams that build around non-Megas and need a Mega + role compression later on) and need Spikes removed, it's effective enough and probably should be mentioned.

Terrakion. Defog Latios does not run three attacks now when it's desperate to retain Roost as an already overburdened Keldeo check + hazard remover in one. Think about it for a minute and you'll realize that if you're coming in on Keldeo Secret Sword and Stealth Rock, you're basically at 40% and then, without Roost, have no way to try and come back in again on Keldeo or any other threat. This is a big problem given that if you're running Defog you have teammates that actually need that support and therefore need an opportunity to Defog, which you won't get later if you can't Recover off that damage.

I think that's the majority of content that caught my eye right now but feel free to keep discussing.