Project ORAS OU Team Preview Analysis Workshop v1 (Round 6: HHM's M-Meta Hazard Stack Balance)

[Akumeoy]

Importable

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Ice Punch

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Taunt
- Bulk Up

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Explanation

Well, Lando-T is the only good rocker besides Ferrothorn (which doesn't have room for it tbqh) and the team's best shot against sand offense, Terrakion, and Zard X, so it should be running a pretty bog-standard defensive set. Stone Edge because otherwise the team is too annoyed by opposing Talonflame and Tornadus-T.

Starmie is obviously the spinner, and to stay on the safe side it should be able to reliably revenge kill Thundurus, Mega Diancie, and Garchomp (chain chomp and Endure+Custap+SD sets look irritating), and Manaphy, so it's the offensive spinner set with boltbeam.

Hydreigon is the closest thing the team has to a good stallbreaker, and Talonflame and Mega Metagross can pick off fairies for it, so I'm going to guess it's one of those Choice Specs sets with Flash Cannon Fire Blast. I would love to use U-Turn, but honestly this team's matchup against Klefki (if it's Magnet Rise or Toxic) would be pretty shitty without it and the ability to OHKO MScizor and Ferrothorn make things a lot easier on Mgross and Ferrothorn.

Talonflame should have a good matchup against Clefable because a paralyzed Mega Metagross is pretty ass, so it needs Taunt. The team could stand to have a good Knock Off absorber since most of the team detests having theirs removed, so it's itemless Acrobatics. Bisharp and Mega Sableye are both worrisome for most of the team, so it has Bulk Up to beat those. SpD gives it the best matchup against Electric-types that you can't just put Ferrothorn in front of, like Mega Manectric and Zapdos.

Ferrothorn is a very standard set. It needs Spikes because that's what the team is, Leech Seed to stay healthy, Power Whip lets it drop Manaphy into Talonflame's revenge range, and Gyro Ball lets it check opposing Fairies. IMO there are particular teams where different Ferrothorn movesets are justifiable, but there's nothing to suggest that this is one of them.

Lastly, Mega Metagross should always be running Meteor Mash and Hammer Arm and Ice Punch IMO. Zen Headbutt and Thunder Punch both have their uses, but I think Zen Headbutt is more important for its better handling of Keldeo, Rotom-Wash, Mega Venusaur, Mega Charizard X, Mega Heracross, etc. The team's counterplay vs. Skarmory and Slowbro/king felt pretty adequate anyways.

Least confident on: Starmie's coverage, Megagross's Zen Headbutt vs. Thunder Punch, Talonflame's spread and boosting move.
Most confident on: Everything else.

 

[entreflores]

Sorry for the delay guys! We've all been very busy irl and with school.

For last round, Martin. won for the Scolipede entry! I'd offer a winner to the Lopunny team but there was only one submission, and I'm not going to award wins in absentia of competition. For this round, entreflores was closest on both his prediction of the daddy's kisses and Valentine teams!

Actually there were two submissions, mine here and Random Passerby 's submission here. There are some sizable differences too, like ChopleTtar + CM Clef on one vs BandTtar + Utility Clef on the other

 

[Martin]

As per usual I've not looked at previous submissions

Importable

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Hammer Arm

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Roost
- Acrobatics

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Description

Just from the team preview I can instantly see that this is a pretty balanced build. I have based a handful of set selections on this assumption.

Mega Metagross is just running BoltBeam 'cause it is the most threatening set. I don't feel the need to run Bullet Punch on it because nowadays most Mega Diancie run HP Fire and, as such, sacrifice the speed tie with Mega Metagross. This is also the reason why I chose Specs Hydreigon: it is its most threatening set in the current metagame.

Landorus-T is running PhysDef for a number of reasons. The lack of other viable Stealth Rock users is indicative that it is the 'mon carrying Stealth Rock on this build. This narrows it down to PhysDef or SD+2 attacks. I have chosen the former because the team quite clearly has difficulty dealing with Talonflame, so having a 'mon that can check it reasonably consistently is nice, and this alongside the fact that Metagross is carrying Ice Punch to bait out Landorus-T is also the reason why I opted to carry Stone Edge as opposed to HP Ice or Toxic or anything similar.

Talonflame is Bulk Up for a few reasons. The team lacks any kind of wincon or stallbreaker, meaning that Taunt+BU Talonflame is a nice filler 'mon in general, and it also makes it a pretty consistent stop to a handful of 'mons while also overwhelming stuff like Heatran. The reason that I have opted for itemless+acro is because it allows it to better check Weavile, who otherwise has a field day with this team once Ferrothorn is weakened.

Chople Berry Ferrothorn is run to ease the matchup vs. Keldeo, preventing it from forcing Ferrothorn out with a small amount of prior damage and, as such, reducing the pressure put onto Starmie to switch into it. The listed EVs avoid the 2HKO from adamant Soft Sand Lando-T's Earthquake before Stealth Rock, although more heavily invested spreads are also an option--as is a more balanced defensive spread.

I have opted for utility Starmie dispite my general distaste for the set for a few reasons. The team lacks much in the way of speed control beyond Talonflame and also appreciates para and burn spreading, and it is also nice to be able to spin more consistently due to the team's reliance on Talonflame to deal with certain 'mons. Thunder Wave still allows it to cripple Keldeo while also providing the team with speed control.

Things I'm most uncertain of:

• T-Wave on Starmie
• Chople>Lefties on Ferro

 

[ericaroselia]

Importable

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Ice Punch

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bulk Up

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Toxic

Pretty much what Akumeoy posted, i agree with most of the sets that user posted except that i'd use bulky starmie over the offensive one since LO star is some set for very offensive teams and def starmie is a much better check to Keldeo, who can be a massive threat to the team and WoW > Taunt on Talon because i don't like when they send in Lando-t or Tyranitar for free. Other than that seems fine as the sets are pretty standard and seem to fit well on the team and Akumeoy summed it up pretty well and i'm confident on the team overall but some moves may change though, like Psyshock or something over Toxic on Starmie or Thunder Punch instead of Zen on Meta also Talon may have Taunt over BU or wisp.

 

[entreflores]

All hail Macbeth

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Pursuit

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
- Roost

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 240 Def / 28 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

thou shalt be king hereafter!

I know, specs Hydra is trending and has no switchins outside of Chansey, but in this short of team, I kind of wanted it to have more longevity, staying power and stallbreaking abilities. I opted for Taunt+Roost, a classic UU set (no idea if it's still used but oh well) with Flash Cannon over Draco (s/o to D!fficult who posted that set in his OLT discussion post). Note that Hydra has a great matchup against the general stall+trapper archetype: it can't get trapped by Duggy and resists Pursuit from Weavile and scarfTtar. I also like its ability to beat bulky waters that stand in the way of Talonflame's sweep, including Vincune's ppstalling capacities and regular CM Suicune. That makes Talon to have more of a cleaning role in SD + 2 attacks with a bulky max Attack spread which hits a LO HP number just in case and dumps the rest in SpDef, since I couldn't get a higher Lefties number with them.

I decided to spread my status-inducing moveslots with Toxic on Starmie to wear things down and T-Wave on Ferro. Although it interferes with Gyro Ball, I like the idea of LO Hydra with T-Wave support. I almost put T-Wave on Starmie too, but then decided that Toxic helps more against Rotom-W and other fat waters that may want to come in a defensive Starmie. The rest is pretty straightforward, I guess, I sweated a little between Zen or T-Punch on Mega Metagross and I ended up with BoltBeam+Pursuit on it to get rid of the opposing Latis and stack spikes for free instead of praying for no HP Fire. The Latis are also annoying since they outspeed Hydreigon and they often are the fastest things on balanced teams, so their removal opens up the door for Hydra to wreak havoc. Lando is clearly the defensive rocker, U-Turn over SD or anything else cause the team can use some tempo, and that's about it.

Starmie is shiny because all defensive Starmies are shiny.

Also edited Megagross' ability in the importable to Clear Body to prevent Light Metal accidents happening. Just for perfectionism.

Fixed the Metagross conflict between importable and explanation... although I'm kinda worried about opposing steel types being annoying, fat Starmie can switch into any Heatran barring Trap+Beam, Talon deals with Ferro and Rachi, Lando deals with Exca, Skarm has to deal with Ferro seeding it, Tpunch and Starmie spinning in its face or fishing for burns, so it should work without Hammer Arm and steels are usually not the type to carry reliable recovery (except Skarm, ofc), so spikes and a dead defogger do wonders on that front too

 

[dream light]

Actually there were two submissions, mine here and Random Passerby 's submission here. There are some sizable differences too, like ChopleTtar + CM Clef on one vs BandTtar + Utility Clef on the other

I have a disease.

Original post updated with a winner.

 

[Wildcat Formation]

Importable

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Thunder Punch
- Grass Knot
- Ice Punch

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-turn

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 28 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Thunder Wave

Explanation

Overview:
I have Grass Knot on M-Metagross to lure Quagsire for BU Talonflame. The team has three good switch-ins to Clefable, and all three appreciates switching into Clefable safely. Thus, I put U-Turn on Specs Hydreigon over Flash Cannon. Standard RH Lando-T with Toxic because I like Toxic Lando-T. Bulk Up + Taunt is my favorite Talonflame set so yep. Nothing special with the last two; Spikes and Thunder Wave are good moves.

Things Most Confident Of:
U-Turn Hydreigon. It just fits so well with the team. M-Metagross imo is at its best when it is able to switch into Fairies via Volt-Turn.

Things Least Confident Of:
Grass Knot M-Metagross. Other than Quag versus stall it doesn't hit much.

 

[dk]

I'm taking a crack at it since I don't know the team. I promise there's no collusion here lol

Importable

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Zen Headbutt
- Pursuit

Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Talonflame (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Swords Dance

Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Spikes

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Explanation

Went with Pursuit Metagross since it complements Spikes-stacking builds nicely by removing spinning Starmie and defogging Latios. Thunder punch would be nice, but Hydreigon can reliably break through Slowbro/Slowking anyway, so seemed pretty logical here. Went with Zen over an elemental punch since Talon really appreciates the pressure Zen Meta can put on Rotom, and Mash does a ton to Lando/Chomp anyway.

Hydreigon is standard modest Specs. Could also be Taunt + LO to help with Stall but hazard stacking balance typically auto-loses to stall anyway so idk.

Lando looks like standard defensive. No SD or HP fire because Talon deals with Sciz, and Yache helps deal with the massive Thundurus weakness

Impish Talon deals with Weav which HHM has a habit of marking up as a massive threat (which it is). Will-o deals with Bish, Sciz, etc. while SD provides a necessary wincon that appreciates the pressure Meta exerts on some of its checks.

Ferro and Starmie are pretty standard. I opted for T-Wave Mie since the build needs some kind of speed control.

 

[entreflores]

??

??
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm

The rest is pretty straightforward, I guess, I sweated a little between Zen or T-Punch on Mega Metagross and I ended up with BoltBeam+Pursuit on it to get rid of the opposing Latis and stack spikes for free instead of praying for no HP Fire. The Latis are also annoying since they outspeed Hydreigon and they often are the fastest things on balanced teams, so their removal opens up the door for Hydra to wreak havoc.

I'll open these parts and just highlight this because I'm absent-minded as fuck. I'll leave it like that for now as a small tribute to my confusion and then clear out the rest and then correct it to something final. And yes, I am as confused as you are.

At least any set is better than non-Slack Off Hippo. Also I'm having too much fun with this game, can we get another team preview maybe? :3

 

[dream light]

The winner for this team was daddy's kisses! The team is here.

I'm also going to be stepping down as co-host from this project and What's His Last seeing as I simply don't have time for as many projects as I used to with school and extra-curriculars absorbing more and more of my time. I'll still be around from time to time in the forum to help out with Sets VR when that's needed, but I won't be able to make regular posts in here like I used to.

Peace.

 

[dk]

Gonna go ahead and request this thread be locked. Thanks everyone for the submissions!

Celticpride bludz