[OU] ASDF: Offensive Team--Because I have nothing better to name it.

Junk

Introduction:

So pretty much, this is a bulky offensive team. Since flat out offensive wasn't working too well, and I was taking hits I couldn't handle, it has since been modded to bulky offense.

At first I was a bit hesitant to post anything on Smogon, as I was afraid of being bagged on by the more experienced people here. However, after reading through RMTs, I realized that the community was fairly welcome to new members. So here we are; the first competitive team that I've ever made.


With Heart Gold and Soul Silver recently released in the United States, I felt that one or the other would be my first Pokemon game on the DS. I decided to make my team for battling amongst my friends. However, I felt that it would be better if I could assemble a team out of Pokemon easily found from HGSS and DPPt, instead of having to rely on certain Pokemon such as Rotom, only attainable through events. I do not feel that I should rely on IVs too much, as it is hard to guarantee 31 IVs across the board, unless I somehow learn to use Pokesav. If it is possible, could someone link me to a tutorial for Pokesav? Reading the site for it did not help me very much, and I am still in the dark. As for the team itself, I actually feel fairly confident in it, although it does have some weaknesses here and there. It's primarily offense based.

Team information updated as of May 13, 2010. Extensive testing has been put through on it. It's primarily a bulky offensive team now.

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First up: A brief look onto the six members of the team.

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Credits for sprites goes to serebii.net

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Second Up: The Weakness/Resistance Modifiers chart.

Assuming Gengar has Levitate; Gravity is not up.

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This takes into account that Gengar has Levitate and that Snorlax has Thick Fat, although Levitate can be removed by Gravity and other means.

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Third up: My subpar analysis.

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Aerodactyl (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
Jolly Nature (Spe+/SpA-)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
This is one of my favorite Pokemon of all time. I liked it before I knew that it was one of the best leads ever. Focus Sash is there so it doesn't get KOed if it is outsped by Choice Scarf Pokes that decide to launch off an Ice attack or something. There really is no hope for Aerodactyl to stop Choice Scarf Pokes that Stealth Rock and then switch. However, Aerodactyl will be highly capable to set up Stealth Rock itself. The EVs are there so that it is able to set up Stealth Rock quickly, and if it wants to, after it has set up Stealth Rock, to attack the opposition. Taunt is pretty self explanatory, as Aerodactyl's a lead. Jolly nature is also pretty self explanatory since Aerodactyl doesn't need Special Attack with its moveset.

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Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 200 HP/56 Atk/252 SpD
Adamant (Atk+/SpA-)
- Roost
- Brick Break or Super Power or Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
Pretty much, this set is designed around smashing the opponent's face in. Having a Bulky set, as suggested by Plus (Thanks Plus!), is working very VERY well in letting Scizor set up a Swords Dance, letting it either Bullet Punching the opponent's face or Breaking a Brick in the same place. Roosting off damage is easy with the amount of SpD and HP that Scizor holds, and it also helps in taking off the Life Orb recoil. Biggest debate over this set is whether I should use Brick Break or Super Power. Brick Break is far weaker than Super Power, but Super Power lowers attack and defense after just one use. Bug Bite also provides its uses on things such as Celebi. Hard decision.

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Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Atk
Bold (Def+/Atk-)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
Suicune has always been a reliable source of semi-walling, at least in the few teams I've played in 3rd Gen before I started playing the 4th Gen metagame. Although it only has Surf as an attack, it is very much so advantageous, covering a few of Scizor's weaknesses, such as Fire and Ground. Surf and Ice Beam give it decent type coverage. Calm Mind failed me before with Sleep Talk constantly trying to pick Calm Mind over and over, which really annoyed me. Having the Defense stat and HP let it hold on, and with Rest and Sleep Talk, lets it survive very well. This set is walled by bulky waters, especially Vaporeon. My hope of countering Vaporeon is Zapdos, although Scizor and Gengar can function decently if Zapdos is down.

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Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
Timid (Spd+/Atk-)
- Pain Split
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Gengar with this set-up, made possible by HGSS, make it awesome as hell, at least in my eyes. I was using Gengar originally as a multi-type move user, but with the other Pokemon, I feel that I have a decent amount of type coverage already. I feel that Substitute is a necessity for a SpA/Spe EV Gengar, since it is fairly squishy without HP and Def/SpD EVs. Pain Split makes it even better. As well as being able to bring the enemy's HP down while bringing Gengar's own HP up while it hides behind a Sub, it can piss people off. If the Sub is not destroyed and a Pain Split is already pulled off, the other moves can be used to smack the opponent's HP down. The disadvantage to this is that due to Life Orb, Gengar's HP is lowered, although it facilitates some more Pain Splitting, and further subbing and Pain Splitting can keep the opponent's HP down and Gengar's HP back up, although only a little bit. Gengar can also act as a revenge killer, although with Life Orbs and field and entry hazards, it might not be able to revenge kill very much. It also acts as a Rapid Spin blocker, and with the practically unresisted Focus Blast / Shadow Ball combination, it's a great addition to my team.

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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 228 SpA/32 Spe/248 HP
Bold (Def+/Atk-)
- Roar
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
Zapdos could possibly have a better move than Agility, since it has a planned out 252 Speed EV. In addition to that, having to set up Calm Mind and Swords Dance leaves me with semi-deficit of turns, and every turn is valuable in metagaming. Swords Dance really only needs to be set up once, but I still see Agility as not too necessary. Thunderbolt is, of course, one of Zapdos's primary attacking moves due to STAB. Roost allows it to recover HP, although exposing it to Ground moves is very dangerous. There is no good way for Zapdos to defeat Ground type Pokemon, so switching to another Pokemon, possibly Suicune, is advisable in that situation. Heat Wave is there to cover Ice Pokemon, and possibly Ice-users, if they happen to be weak to Fire. I've since began to use Zapdos to counter Scizor. Scizor has no real good move to take down my Zapdos easily, so running Heat Wave on it is an advantage. Substitute just wasn't holding up for me, since they were getting taken down the turn they were set up, and I absolutely couldn't find a way to keep them up. Heat Wave proved much more advantageous for me, and Roar still has its uses, although Zapdos can't roar from behind a Sub.

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Tyranitar (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
252 HP/40 Atk/216 SpD
Sassy (SpD+/Spe-)
-Payback
-Pursuit
-Stone Edge
-Fire Blast
Snorlax was replaced by Tyranitar. TTar is great, and it pretty much always will be great. TTar is crippled by Burns, which makes Lum Berry that much greater as TTar's hold item. Pursuit allows TTar to take down Latias that try to switch out. Payback is something that many TTars don't seem to use. Regardless, it lets me destroy pretty darn effectively with TTars bulkiness, allowing it to take hits, and its Speed, which pretty much ensures that Payback will be double power. Stone Edge and Fire Blast are great to take care of Flying types and others weak to Rock, and Fire Blast especially helps take care of Scizors. The one inherent problem to this set is Scizors running Choice Band that U-Turn their asses out of TTar. However, it's been working pretty well as a set for me.

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Snorlax (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
252 Atk/252 Spd/6 HP
Adamant (Atk+/SpA-)
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Selfdestruct
Hell, even with Atk and Spd EVs, it works as a good semi-tank due to its impressive HP and defense. Fire Punch is there to cover most Ice types, and Earthquake there to cover those that do not resist it. Body Slam provides another great option, as it has a great chance of Paralysis, and with Choice Band up, acts as a strong move to use. Selfdestruct will mainly be used for near end-game, if not end-game, killing upon switch-in, provided that Snorlax is not killed by field and entry hazards.

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Please rate me well!

Changes
-Snorlax replaced with Tyranitar, to counter Latias, Rotom, and steel walls.
-Suicune's Calm Mind replaced with Ice Beam.
-Scizor's EVs reallocated with Ubers Swords Dance EV spread for more delicious bulkiness.
-Zapdos' EVs reallocated to a physically defensive set. Nature changed to Bold, moveset to Sub/TBolt/Roar/Roost
-Zapdos' moveset changed to TBolt/Roar/Roost/HeatWave
-New type resistance chart uploaded.

Team updated as of May 13, 2010.
 
Hi Junk.

Your team has most of its bases covered, however pokemon such as Specs Latias can come in on Zapdos, and really dent your team with no risk whatsoever. your Scizor and Snorlax both are decent switch ins to her, but only force her out at best, while you lose precious health and free turns in the process. Rotom also looks problematic to this team as it can come in on nearly all of Snorlax's moves and spam Will-o-Wisp, or random Thunderbolts and Shadow Balls which will wear down your team really fast. What's worse is that your only responses to this threat would be Zapdos and Gengar, the former having difficulties with defensive sets, the former having a tough time switching into it.

My suggestion would be to use a specially defensive Tyranitar over Snorlax, running Pursuit to ensure that Specs Latias won't come in and come out spamming Draco Meteors on your team willy nilly. Specially defensive Tyranitar will have bulk somewhat similar to Snorlax defensively, while still giving you the punch you need. You could possibly run Choice Band, though I would suggest specifically:

Tyranitar @ Lum
Sassy | 252 hp/40 atk/216 SpD
Payback/Pursuit/Stone Edge/Fire Blast

This Tyranitar would be able to take a hit from Latias and kill it before it does more to your team, as well as being able to take a Will-o-Wisp from Rotom and kill it off with Payback. With Fire Blast, you aren't complete set up bait to pokemon like Skarmory or Forretress, both which are a pain for Scizor and Suicune, Suicune especially.

You could try the standard CB set as well should you still want the power that Snorlax gives, however for your team, I think you would like some pokemon that don't give the opponent free turns afterwards, or be burned by Rotom that easily.

Your Scizor set is pretty straightforward, though I'd personally recommend the Ubers EV Spread for Scizor which helps it take hits so much better. 200 HP 56 Atk 252 SpD is a fat version of SD Scizor that gets SDs a lot easier. However, if you want to keep the high speed, I'd recommend simply 224 speed to outspeed all tyranitar, putting the rest in HP for a little more bulk.

good luck! :)
 
Hello Junk, I'm going to make a quick rate since I have to get going soon. Anyway, Zapdos is completely outdated now, it just isn't as lethal as it used to be.
So replace Zapdos for a Mix Mence which is a perfect wall breaker and will pose a huge threat to other opposing teams. Make your Snorlax curse set as it will be helpful late game when all threats are gone.

Anyway, I would've wrote more but I gotta get going. Good luck!
 
I just thought I'd put my support behind Plus' suggestion. There is a second important reason to use Tyranitar - sandstorm. Sandstorm actually brings a curious advantage to your gengar - it allows it to beat Blissey. After one pain split, Blissey can be 2HKOed by Focus Blast, forcing it to heal. This means that if played correctly, Gengar can beat any Blissey without Softboiled. Without sandstorm, leftovers recovery allows Blissey to escape the KO.
 
Hi Junk.

Your team has most of its bases covered, however pokemon such as Specs Latias can come in on Zapdos, and really dent your team with no risk whatsoever. your Scizor and Snorlax both are decent switch ins to her, but only force her out at best, while you lose precious health and free turns in the process. Rotom also looks problematic to this team as it can come in on nearly all of Snorlax's moves and spam Will-o-Wisp, or random Thunderbolts and Shadow Balls which will wear down your team really fast. What's worse is that your only responses to this threat would be Zapdos and Gengar, the former having difficulties with defensive sets, the former having a tough time switching into it.

My suggestion would be to use a specially defensive Tyranitar over Snorlax, running Pursuit to ensure that Specs Latias won't come in and come out spamming Draco Meteors on your team willy nilly. Specially defensive Tyranitar will have bulk somewhat similar to Snorlax defensively, while still giving you the punch you need. You could possibly run Choice Band, though I would suggest specifically:

Tyranitar @ Lum
Sassy | 252 hp/40 atk/216 SpD
Payback/Pursuit/Stone Edge/Fire Blast

This Tyranitar would be able to take a hit from Latias and kill it before it does more to your team, as well as being able to take a Will-o-Wisp from Rotom and kill it off with Payback. With Fire Blast, you aren't complete set up bait to pokemon like Skarmory or Forretress, both which are a pain for Scizor and Suicune, Suicune especially.

You could try the standard CB set as well should you still want the power that Snorlax gives, however for your team, I think you would like some pokemon that don't give the opponent free turns afterwards, or be burned by Rotom that easily.

Your Scizor set is pretty straightforward, though I'd personally recommend the Ubers EV Spread for Scizor which helps it take hits so much better. 200 HP 56 Atk 252 SpD is a fat version of SD Scizor that gets SDs a lot easier. However, if you want to keep the high speed, I'd recommend simply 224 speed to outspeed all tyranitar, putting the rest in HP for a little more bulk.

good luck! :)

Thank you very much for your responses, guys. Devil Wears Prada, If you would mind coming back later and expounding on your post, it would be greatly appreciated.

Now that I think about it, having a Tyranitar with that set is helluva advantageous, since it almost definitely ensures Payback to have 100 base power. What are the advantages to having 40 attack Atk instead of raising up SpD to its fullest? Is it just to get some extra kick in damage? Having two Dark moves, Payback and Pursuit, confuses me a bit. When would using Pursuit have advantages over Payback, since Payback will almost always do more damage than Pursuit, or is it about using Pursuit and scaring your opponent so that they won't switch out?

Is losing the Atk and Spe in favor of HP and SpD a large deal for Scizor? I'm wondering how losing the Atk and Spe affects gameplay with SD Scizor, and how strategies with it change.
 
Junk said:
Thank you very much for your responses, guys. Devil Wears Prada, If you would mind coming back later and expounding on your post, it would be greatly appreciated.

Now that I think about it, having a Tyranitar with that set is helluva advantageous, since it almost definitely ensures Payback to have 100 base power. What are the advantages to having 40 attack Atk instead of raising up SpD to its fullest? Is it just to get some extra kick in damage? Having two Dark moves, Payback and Pursuit, confuses me a bit. When would using Pursuit have advantages over Payback, since Payback will almost always do more damage than Pursuit, or is it about using Pursuit and scaring your opponent so that they won't switch out?

Is losing the Atk and Spe in favor of HP and SpD a large deal for Scizor? I'm wondering how losing the Atk and Spe affects gameplay with SD Scizor, and how strategies with it change.
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That Tyranitar is essentially the standard SpD Tyranitar for Curse Tars. That spread allows you to survive Focus Blasts from Gengar 100% of the time. 40 atk is simply leftover EVs to maximize power. Payback is your primary form of attack for dark stab. If you had something like Defensive Rotom who is going to WoW you, you would payback instead of pursuit, as you know it is not going to switch. Should a Latias or Scarf Rotom come your way, you would use Pursuit to assure yourself a kill, which is extremely important in your case because Specs Latias can come in as she pleases with your team otherwise. Pursuit is used against those pokemon that you need to be assured a kill on so it doesn't demolish your team.

Ubers, or at least bulky SD scizor can set up more often on pokemon such as Skarmory and Swampert. You don't exactly need to go overkill on the power should you be able to get SD up more easily. Try the bulky set for a few battles, if you feel you really need the boost in power for whatever reason, the other spread with 224 speed is a fine option as well.
 
Hi.

Solid team you've got here, but I want to make an incision in a few points of it. First off, DD Salamence and DD Gyarados are major threats to this team, and they seem to set up easily since they won't find much resistance opposing to this. Every Pokémon on your team complements each other pretty well, bar Zapdos, who I don't find to be too useful or adding something really important to the general line up. Considering what I just stated about Salamence and Gyarados, I think I have in mind a good Pokémon to suggest for replacing Zapdos: ScarfJirachi, and I'll explain the reason below ;)

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Jolly nature.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Iron Head | Thunderpunch | Ice Punch/U-turn | Fire Punch

Using Jirachi means that another resistance to Dragon-type moves will be added, hence Latias and Salamence will be better handled. Iron Head, besides its common functions, could be also utilized to wear down non-physically defensive Salamence (40% of damage plus Serene Grace is a percentage to keep in mind). Thunderpunch is specifically to defeat Gyarados, which like I said before, poses an important threat to your team. U-turn is a handy move to scout your opponent's moves, and deals noticeable damage to the likes of Celebi and Latias on the switch-in. Ice Punch should be taken into account too, since it's a more reliable way to dispatch Salamence - IP is also useful to revenge kill others such as Gliscor and Latias more efficiently than with Iron Head. Fire Punch is kind of obvious; it basically keeps SD Scizor and SD Lucario at bay, two Pokémon that could cause some problems here and there between your mons. Finally, Trick deserves a mention on this set, as it allows Jirachi to shut down walls like Blissey and Snorlax, while impeding set-up users such as Suicune and Latias to Calm Mind, respectively.
That said, don't hesitate to try Jirachi out, it is indeed a good addition to the team ;)

As for other members of the team, I want to suggest a couple of things on Suicune. The first detail to consider is to replace Sleep Talk for Roar. That will turn Suicune into a more complemented sweeping machine, since Roar will make impossible for the likes of Skarmory and Vaporeon to phaze you away, hence preventing you to reach a good number of CMs. The second option to consider is Ice Beam, as a replacement for Sleep Talk as well. Basically to prevent Salamence to cause havoc on your team once Jirachi dies. In short, you have two options to consider as for Suicune. If you opt for using Roar, then move some Defense EVs to Speed, so that opposing Suicune won't be faster and Roar you away first than you ;)

The rest of the team looks good, maybe consider Pursuit on Snorlax, so you can attempt to trap Latias and ScarfRotom, which could be helpful.

Good team overall, gl.
 
Thank you very much, Plus! I'll be sure to try things out.

Hi.

Solid team you've got here, but I want to make an incision in a few points of it. First off, DD Salamence and DD Gyarados are major threats to this team, and they seem to set up easily since they won't find much resistance opposing to this. Every Pokémon on your team complements each other pretty well, bar Zapdos, who I don't find to be too useful or adding something really important to the general line up. Considering what I just stated about Salamence and Gyarados, I think I have in mind a good Pokémon to suggest for replacing Zapdos: ScarfJirachi, and I'll explain the reason below ;)

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Jolly nature.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Iron Head | Thunderpunch | Ice Punch/U-turn | Fire Punch

Using Jirachi means that another resistance to Dragon-type moves will be added, hence Latias and Salamence will be better handled. Iron Head, besides its common functions, could be also utilized to wear down non-physically defensive Salamence (40% of damage plus Serene Grace is a percentage to keep in mind). Thunderpunch is specifically to defeat Gyarados, which like I said before, poses an important threat to your team. U-turn is a handy move to scout your opponent's moves, and deals noticeable damage to the likes of Celebi and Latias on the switch-in. Ice Punch should be taken into account too, since it's a more reliable way to dispatch Salamence - IP is also useful to revenge kill others such as Gliscor and Latias more efficiently than with Iron Head. Fire Punch is kind of obvious; it basically keeps SD Scizor and SD Lucario at bay, two Pokémon that could cause some problems here and there between your mons. Finally, Trick deserves a mention on this set, as it allows Jirachi to shut down walls like Blissey and Snorlax, while impeding set-up users such as Suicune and Latias to Calm Mind, respectively.
That said, don't hesitate to try Jirachi out, it is indeed a good addition to the team ;)

As for other members of the team, I want to suggest a couple of things on Suicune. The first detail to consider is to replace Sleep Talk for Roar. That will turn Suicune into a more complemented sweeping machine, since Roar will make impossible for the likes of Skarmory and Vaporeon to phaze you away, hence preventing you to reach a good number of CMs. The second option to consider is Ice Beam, as a replacement for Sleep Talk as well. Basically to prevent Salamence to cause havoc on your team once Jirachi dies. In short, you have two options to consider as for Suicune. If you opt for using Roar, then move some Defense EVs to Speed, so that opposing Suicune won't be faster and Roar you away first than you ;)

The rest of the team looks good, maybe consider Pursuit on Snorlax, so you can attempt to trap Latias and ScarfRotom, which could be helpful.

Good team overall, gl.

Is there any easy way to acquire Jirachi on the DS? I only have one on my Sapphire from Colosseum, and its EVs, Nature, and moveset are far from what you suggested. Otherwise, is there any other Pokemon that could do as well as Jirachi in that placement?

I'm a bit hesitant to replace Sleep Talk with either Ice Beam or Roar. Rest makes Suicune sleep for 2 turns, so in those two turns, I'm fairly certain that without switching out, Suicune can be wiped away. Even with switching out and then switching back in, Suicune will still need to wake up. Because of that, I'm more inclined right now to stick with the Crocune set.
 
Gonna bump this up. HUGE revisions made to every Pokes description, and I've gotten myself up to ~1250-ish CRE on Shoddy with this revised team.
 
Hey. Pretty cool team but I have a few suggestions. First off, I believe offensive Zapdos has no place in this metagame with all the Tyranitar running around. Defensive Zapdos would probably be better just to take on Scizor and Lucario a lot better, as well as Gyarados who plague this team. If you run like a subroar set it can rack up stealth rock for your other teammates too. I don't have really anything else to add but good luck!
 
Would it be something like this?

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
228 SpA/32 Spe/248 HP
Bold (Def+/Atk-)
- Substitute
- Roar
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
 
I think I'm calculating wrong or something. I took your wording as Pokemon with a base stat speed of 90 with Hasty, Jolly or Timid and max speed EVs. I don't think that even with maxed out 252 Speed on Zapdos, it can out-speed that. Then when I read it again, I thought it was 90 base speed with a positive Speed nature and no Spe EVs, but even with 32 Spe EVs, Zapdos on Bold still out-speeds those already. Am I calculating something wrong?

Anyways, team has once again been updated. I've been pretty successful with this team overall. I've peaked at around 1350 CRE, up from the 1250 CRE from before. If I could get some further opinions on this thing before I truly finalize this thing, it'd be great.
 
In need of more opinions. I'm not finding too many problems anymore. Common threats such as Mence and Gyarados are easily dealt with now, and I find that Aerodactyl is actually able to come back later in quite a few games and sweep. Looking for some more opinions before I finalize this team as it is.
 
The lack of any sort of electric resist or immunity means things like Jolteon or Magnezone throwing around STAB Thunderbolts will really hurt this team. If they manage to get a sub up, you're in even more trouble. All you can really hope for is a revenge kill with Aerodactyl, but with no spinner and a weakness to SR, it will be worn down if it doesn't die as a lead like it often will. Tyranitar can help, but it won't like a STAB Flash Cannon or HP Fighting. I think that giving Tar Earthquake over Payback or Fire Blast would help immensely

Similarly, if Thunderwaves start being thrown around, you have no way of absorbing other than a one time use (Tar's Lum) or a Suicune (who wouldn't want to switch into most things with Thunderwave).

Furthermore, you lack a reliable way to deal with Gyrados who, with enough Attack invested can outspeed and OHKO Zapdos after a Dragon Dance, your best chance of taking it down with Stone Edge after Stealth Rock.

I think something like a bulky Starmie would really help with your Gyrados problem while serving a similar purpose as Suicune. Rapid Spin support for Zapdos' weakness to SR and Skarmory/Forretress's ability to switch in to Scizor and lay down Spikes for it and Tyranitar would be nice too if you could afford a moveslot.
 
I'll try out the bulky Starmie running Surf, Thunderbolt, Recover, and Rapid Spin. I suspect that the Rapid Spinner set on the analysis page is what a bulky Starmie would be, since I've used it on a previous team, and it's handled Gyarados fairly well.

I've also been told quite a few times that Zapdos is outdated and does not hold its ground at all anymore in the current metagame. Is there any reason behind that? I find that it deals with many things quite decently, although I've had a few people that I've battled suggest in-game that I replace Zapdos with something else.
 
zapdos has been considered for a long time outclassed by the rotom forms, for it's defensive role, due to wil o wisp and no weakness to stealth rock. Also gliscor has shown itself to be a better wall as well, due to taunt, SR, and no weakness to SR.

Also for all other roles there are many better pokemon, which is the definition of outclassed.
 
george182 said:
zapdos has been considered for a long time outclassed by the rotom forms, for it's defensive role, due to wil o wisp and no weakness to stealth rock. Also gliscor has shown itself to be a better wall as well, due to taunt, SR, and no weakness to SR.

Also for all other roles there are many better pokemon, which is the definition of outclassed.
Click to expand...

I guess if I replaced Zapdos, Starmie would actually have less use than it does to me at the moment. At the same time, I can't find a good replacement for Zapdos. I mean Rotom-H does have its ups, and can access both TBolt and OHeat, but the lack of reliable recovery other than ResTalk, which takes two moveslots, and the lack of ability to Phaze makes me value Zapdos above Rotom-A forms. If there's any way to work around Zapdos' weakness to SR and its being outclassed, it'd be greatly appreciated.
 
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