SS OU OU F/W/G MOLTRES BALANCE Dual Scarf... Kinda WIP

Quick intro:
I wanted to make a team using Moltres, so I tried thinking of a Fire Water Grass core to use, and I came up with Moltres/Kartana/Tapu Fini.

The team: FWG Moltres dual scarf

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Substitute
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane

Moltres was the inspiration for the team, mainly because it is a great stall breaker. Heavy duty boots are pretty much a necessity as Tres is 4x weak to rocks, so without them its opportunities to switch in are vastly more limited. Flamethrower and Hurricane are both great stab moves, especially hurricane, which can do a very surprising amount of dmg to things like Slowbro and Clefable. Substitute is good to avoid status which cripples tres significantly. Roost is needed for Moltres to have longevity throughout the game, as it has no other means of recovery. Moltres’s typing allows it to switch into grass type moves with incredible ease, meaning it can shut down things like Kartana, Bulu, and Rillaboom.


Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Kartana is a great complimentary sweeper to Moltres, as Kart can deal with water and and rock types for Tres. Kartana has a choice scarf to act as a revenge killer, as well as late game sweeper in tandem with beast boost. The set is pretty straight forward, Smart Strike and Leaf blade are Kartana’s stab moves, Sacred Sword is for Steel coverage, and Knock Off is a good utility move to click in case of a switch.


Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 104 SpA / 48 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Defog
- Trick

Tapu Fini finishes off the Fire/Water/Grass core for the team. I decided to use Scarf Fini because she can also act as a 2nd revenge killer for things like Dragapult, but Fini also very often tricks away her scarf and has her usual utilities. Misty Surge is very useful for protecting Moltres from Toxic before it can get a substitute up, as well as protecting the rest of the team from W-o-W. The EV spread I tinkered with a bit and came upon what you see above. 104 SpA is to ensure that Fini OHKO’s Dragapult with moonblast after rocks, to avoid any additional chip. 108 Speed with Scarf means Fini will outspeed anything slower than non-scarf variants of Kartana (348 speed). The rest is put into bulk. Tapu Fini has Defog because I needed hazard control and couldnt find room for it on the rest of the team.


Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Future Sight
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Slowking-G is the main SpD tank of the team. Regenerator is used because with Assault Vest Slowking has no other ways to recover. Future Sight is useful to assist Kartana in taking care of things like Pex, as well as giving Moltres support in breaking stall cores. Sludge Bomb is Slowkings main stab move, which has the added benifit of possibly poisoning opponents. Ice Beam and Flamethrower are both coverage moves for, primarily, ground and steel types that slowking struggles with.


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Landorus-T is usually the lead, the rocker, and the glue to the team. Its very rare I don't find myself using Lando on a team because lets face it, he is the goat. Defensive Lando is the main physical wall for the team. Rocks is great for getting chip and having my mons find KO’s they couldnt without them up. U-turn is the only pivot move on the team, so there is no great momentum volt turn core, but it still is of course very useful. Lando-T is the main way this team beats Magnezone and Heatran, who can pretty easily overwhelm the team with Lando gone.


Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Triple Axel
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

Weavile, the teams last mon, is sadly a filler that ive just been using for now. I don't really know what mon best fits the final slot for this team. Weavile is the teams set-up sweeper. Weavile deals with dragon types that usually overwhelms F/W/G cores. Ice Shard is a useful tool to use to revenge kill with, as well as finish off things like a weakened dragonite if its set up. Boots are used because weavile is weak to rocks. Weaviles dark typing is great to punish psychic-locked mons such as Lele, because Kartana is not much of a psychic resist with its piss poor bulk.


Conclusion:
I don't really know what mon to use in the final slot for the most part. Heatran and Magnezone are insanely annoying because of their steel typing, so once Lando is gone or weakened enough it is usually an easy win for my opponent. Kyurem can also be annoying as hell for the team.

I've thought about using an offensive rocks garchomp over weavile, and switching lando to defog and fini to taunt to better handle spD walls like blissey and pex. Ive also considered using a rocks Kommo-o with the same changes in Lando/Fini.

I want to keep the general idea of the team the same, but please feel free to change around some mons on the team or sets for the mons that I have.
Thank you!​
 
Last edited:
Hey FlyingCactus, I’m here to give you my feedback on your team and suggest some changes.

I find your team super interesting, and I think this team is already pretty solid. Moltres is not a common choice in OU, mainly because it’s hard for him to shine when other bulky Flying types can do the same job but without taking 50% of their life on Rocks if they get Knock Off by things they are supposed to check like Kartana. However, offensive Moltres can be a great and underrated pick, because it hits way harder than what most people think, and a lot of teams will struggle to find a good answer. Substitute is a cool option on this set for two things. First, you can abuse Substitute + Pressure to PP stall some annoying Pokemon and secondly, even though you can’t really touch Heatran, it can’t really touch you back because it will run out of Magma Storm PP super quickly. Also, little correction, Tapu Fini’s terrain won’t protect Moltres from Toxic because Misty Terrain only prevent status on grounded target. The rest of the team has plenty of good ideas too and seems rather solid, even though you may be a bit weak to some common breakers like Heatran when you can’t PP stall it with Moltres, Weavile/Urshifu-Rapid Strikes who overwhelm Scarf Tapu Fini pretty quickly, Tapu Lele and Kyurem who can beat Slowking Galar depending on the set.

I won’t suggest many changes and I will mainly focus on addressing the aforementioned issues while keeping this idea of an offensive Moltres.


Major changes

:slowking-galar: -> :ferrothorn:: I don’t like Slowking Galar that much here. Future Sight is cool but I don’t think it helps that much Moltres and even though Weavile can be more threatening with Future Sight, it struggles to come in without Teleport because of its poor bulk. Slowking Galar is a decent special wall, but struggles against Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Dragapult. I would use a mixed but mainly specially defensive Ferrothorn here to soft check Tapu Lele and Kyurem, but also to bring Spikes which are in my opinion super helpful for this Moltres but also for Kartana and Weavile who can Knock Off Boots users. Indeed, Moltres can PP-stall most Defoggers with Pressure, but can also get a free turn to fire a strong attack or to Sub against the most common Defogger: Corviknight. Ferrothorn can also help against Kartana, which may be annoying because Moltres is not defensive and don’t want to get Knocked Off. I would use Body Press over Knock Off (the most common option on this set) to avoid weakening Weavile and Kartana ones, and because Body Press can be cool to damage Kartana, or Magnezone. Here is the set I would use:

ferrothorn.gif

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head
- Body Press


Minor Changes

:tapu fini:: I don’t think you need to run Choice Scarf Tapu Fini here, as Choice Scarf Kartana + Weavile should be enough in term of Speed Control. Scarf Fini is a good set, but I think that here it leaves you way too weak to things like Urshifu-R and Weavile who weaken it quickly and are hard to bait, as they won’t stay in when they see that you’re not Leftovers. Moreover, these Pokemon can be hard to punish once Tapu Fini as Moltres without Flame Body is not really an answer and can’t even fish for a burn. I think you can run a Calm Mind Set here. Not only you will be able to handle these two more easily because of more Def investment with Leftovers and Draining Kiss to recover some HP, but you will also be able to weaken some Special walls (like Blissey) by preventing them from recovering with Taunt which will help Moltres. Here is the (standard) Calm Mind Tapu Fini’s set:

tapufini.gif

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Scald


:landorus-therian:: Most Landorus-T run SpD investment right now in OU and it may help you solve your issues with Heatran and Magnezone as SpD Lando-T is harder to overwhelm for these. You don’t really need Speed anymore on Lando and can afford to run a fully specially defensive set. This can also help taking one or two hits from Dragapult if needed. As Tapu Fini doesn’t have Defog anymore, I would run it on Lando, and put either Stealth Rock or Toxic as options for the last moveslot. This is because you still want to have a Defogger (even though you can stack hazard with Ferrothorn) in case Moltres gets Knocked Off or in case you fight a Stack Hazard team. Toxic is cool to beat opposing Lando-T with Rock as you can Toxic them and then Defog (even though Fini’s terrain prevent you from using it on grounded target). Stealth Rock are not mandatory when you have Spikes and you could replace Spikes by Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn if you really want to have them, but I find Spikes better in this metagame. Here is the set:

landorus-therian.gif

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic / Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Defog


That’s all for the suggestions, here is the paste of the update version of the team with these changes, feel free to try it out:

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Substitute
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Scald

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head
- Body Press

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Defog

Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Triple Axel
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

Here are some Pokemon that may be a bit hard to handle with this team and how you should play against them:

:kartana:: Kartana can be a bit annoying because Choice Band Knock Off will hurt everything you have. You can try to deal with it by playing aggressively and setting Spikes early to limit the number of situations it can click a move for free.

:tapu lele:: Tapu Lele is another super deadly breaker that may annoy your team because it can fire a Focus Blast on Ferrothorn. You have ways to play around it with Ferrothorn + Weavile but like with Kartana you want to avoid letting this thing coming in freely.

:toxapex:: Toxapex can be a bit hard to break and you may have to be a bit patient and force Spikes on the field first. Keep also in mind that Weavile can beat Toxicless Toxapex because of Pressure giving it virtually more PP on Swords Dance than Pex has on Haze.


Thanks for reading, I hope it was helpful and interesting. Feel free to ask any question you may have. Have a nice day!
 
Hey FlyingCactus, I’m here to give you my feedback on your team and suggest some changes.

I find your team super interesting, and I think this team is already pretty solid. Moltres is not a common choice in OU, mainly because it’s hard for him to shine when other bulky Flying types can do the same job but without taking 50% of their life on Rocks if they get Knock Off by things they are supposed to check like Kartana. However, offensive Moltres can be a great and underrated pick, because it hits way harder than what most people think, and a lot of teams will struggle to find a good answer. Substitute is a cool option on this set for two things. First, you can abuse Substitute + Pressure to PP stall some annoying Pokemon and secondly, even though you can’t really touch Heatran, it can’t really touch you back because it will run out of Magma Storm PP super quickly. Also, little correction, Tapu Fini’s terrain won’t protect Moltres from Toxic because Misty Terrain only prevent status on grounded target. The rest of the team has plenty of good ideas too and seems rather solid, even though you may be a bit weak to some common breakers like Heatran when you can’t PP stall it with Moltres, Weavile/Urshifu-Rapid Strikes who overwhelm Scarf Tapu Fini pretty quickly, Tapu Lele and Kyurem who can beat Slowking Galar depending on the set.

I won’t suggest many changes and I will mainly focus on addressing the aforementioned issues while keeping this idea of an offensive Moltres.


Major changes

:slowking-galar: -> :ferrothorn:: I don’t like Slowking Galar that much here. Future Sight is cool but I don’t think it helps that much Moltres and even though Weavile can be more threatening with Future Sight, it struggles to come in without Teleport because of its poor bulk. Slowking Galar is a decent special wall, but struggles against Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Dragapult. I would use a mixed but mainly specially defensive Ferrothorn here to soft check Tapu Lele and Kyurem, but also to bring Spikes which are in my opinion super helpful for this Moltres but also for Kartana and Weavile who can Knock Off Boots users. Indeed, Moltres can PP-stall most Defoggers with Pressure, but can also get a free turn to fire a strong attack or to Sub against the most common Defogger: Corviknight. Ferrothorn can also help against Kartana, which may be annoying because Moltres is not defensive and don’t want to get Knocked Off. I would use Body Press over Knock Off (the most common option on this set) to avoid weakening Weavile and Kartana ones, and because Body Press can be cool to damage Kartana, or Magnezone. Here is the set I would use:

View attachment 390584
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head
- Body Press


Minor Changes

:tapu fini:: I don’t think you need to run Choice Scarf Tapu Fini here, as Choice Scarf Kartana + Weavile should be enough in term of Speed Control. Scarf Fini is a good set, but I think that here it leaves you way too weak to things like Urshifu-R and Weavile who weaken it quickly and are hard to bait, as they won’t stay in when they see that you’re not Leftovers. Moreover, these Pokemon can be hard to punish once Tapu Fini as Moltres without Flame Body is not really an answer and can’t even fish for a burn. I think you can run a Calm Mind Set here. Not only you will be able to handle these two more easily because of more Def investment with Leftovers and Draining Kiss to recover some HP, but you will also be able to weaken some Special walls (like Blissey) by preventing them from recovering with Taunt which will help Moltres. Here is the (standard) Calm Mind Tapu Fini’s set:

View attachment 390585
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Scald


:landorus-therian:: Most Landorus-T run SpD investment right now in OU and it may help you solve your issues with Heatran and Magnezone as SpD Lando-T is harder to overwhelm for these. You don’t really need Speed anymore on Lando and can afford to run a fully specially defensive set. This can also help taking one or two hits from Dragapult if needed. As Tapu Fini doesn’t have Defog anymore, I would run it on Lando, and put either Stealth Rock or Toxic as options for the last moveslot. This is because you still want to have a Defogger (even though you can stack hazard with Ferrothorn) in case Moltres gets Knocked Off or in case you fight a Stack Hazard team. Toxic is cool to beat opposing Lando-T with Rock as you can Toxic them and then Defog (even though Fini’s terrain prevent you from using it on grounded target). Stealth Rock are not mandatory when you have Spikes and you could replace Spikes by Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn if you really want to have them, but I find Spikes better in this metagame. Here is the set:

View attachment 390586
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic / Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Defog


That’s all for the suggestions, here is the paste of the update version of the team with these changes, feel free to try it out:

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Substitute
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Scald

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head
- Body Press

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Defog

Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Triple Axel
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

Here are some Pokemon that may be a bit hard to handle with this team and how you should play against them:

:kartana:: Kartana can be a bit annoying because Choice Band Knock Off will hurt everything you have. You can try to deal with it by playing aggressively and setting Spikes early to limit the number of situations it can click a move for free.

:tapu lele:: Tapu Lele is another super deadly breaker that may annoy your team because it can fire a Focus Blast on Ferrothorn. You have ways to play around it with Ferrothorn + Weavile but like with Kartana you want to avoid letting this thing coming in freely.

:toxapex:: Toxapex can be a bit hard to break and you may have to be a bit patient and force Spikes on the field first. Keep also in mind that Weavile can beat Toxicless Toxapex because of Pressure giving it virtually more PP on Swords Dance than Pex has on Haze.


Thanks for reading, I hope it was helpful and interesting. Feel free to ask any question you may have. Have a nice day!
Thanks for the advice! I considered using Ferrothorn but I was scared to because I already had a steel/grass mon. And idk how tf I didnt know that about misty surge but thank god you told me. I do have a few quick questions tho... is there a reaon Iron head is used over gyro ball on ferro? and also whats the point of the EV spread on Ferro and Fini, so I know when battling. But thank you so mf much for the help!
 
Thanks for the advice! I considered using Ferrothorn but I was scared to because I already had a steel/grass mon. And idk how tf I didnt know that about misty surge but thank god you told me. I do have a few quick questions tho... is there a reaon Iron head is used over gyro ball on ferro? and also whats the point of the EV spread on Ferro and Fini, so I know when battling. But thank you so mf much for the help!

Hey, you are welcome and thanks for your feedback. As Kartana has almost 0 defensive utility, it's not a big deal to have two Steel/Grass mons because you won't use Kartana to switch into things anyway. If Iron Head is used on Ferrothorn, it's mainly for Clefable and Kyurem who can both PP stall rather easily your Gyro Ball PPs (Clef only takes a bit more than 50% and Kyurem can click Substitute to Stall out your 4 PP because of Pressure). As for the EVs spreads, Tapu Fini's one is the most commonly used for a CM set with basically enough Speed to outspace Max Speed Adamant Tyranitar (and everything slower so things like Max Speed Modest Magnezone...) and the rest is dumped in Defense. As for Ferrothorn, this is also a rather commonly used spread, but I don't remember if there's an exact Calc, except from Body Press giving you a higher chance to 2HKO Kartana. You could run full SpD if you want, but shouldn't change much things.
 
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