[OU] RMT - Don't be too harsh

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[OU] RMT/HMT We're fighting dreamers

I'm currently making a new team.
!Don't rate now! - Will bump this topic when I'm ready

Hey guys,

I'd like you to rate my current team. I don't play for a long time (~2weeks), so please don't be too harsh. So, I found Shoddy Battle before some time on my boyfriend's PC and I got interested into it, because I like the series and it's an interesting idea to see Pokémon played competitively. My boyfriend played it just for fun, so he couldn't help me, but he told me to use Smogon for building a team. After reading some really helpful guides, I somehow understood the basic mechanics and I made my first team: A hail team

Playing a while with the hail team, I noticed that I only could beat unprepared, rather bad teams. Some Pokémon could easily sweep my whole team, so I made a balanced team. In this thread, I'd like to help to improve my team.

PS: English isn't my main language (and I was lazy at school) and I'm still a newbie.

So first I'd like to show my whole team:

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The lead: Pick a card

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
80HP/252Atk/176Spe
Jolly - Seren Grace
<Iron Head>
<Stealth Rock>
<Trick>
<U-Turn>​

I choose Jirachi as my lead, because it also was my lead in my first hail team - I had success with it, it's also one of my favorite Pokémon and incredibly cute and people seem to hate it.. (-> it needs to be good)

Iron Head is the powerful STAB main attack, which also has that famous 30% flinch rate getting boosted to 60% with Seren Grace. It 1HKO leads like Aerodactyl and 2HKO some like Azelf. Later, it is useful to flinch people dead. Trick destroys Pokémon like Ninjask and Blissey, making them useless for the whole match, also it gets rid of the choice specs, giving me free choice of using moves. Trick can also give me a free turn to switch into a potential counter. Stealth Rock is used after Trick, because it's needed. U-Turn is for scouting and switching into potential counters.

There's also one important thing I noticed with Jirachi (it wasn't indended). It's weaknesses: Jirachi is weak against Fire and Ground and neutral against Water and Fighting. I have Pokémon resisting these moves in my team. As example: I trick someone with my Jirachi and he uses a ground move, I can switch into my Salamence and boost it with Dragon Dance.

Jirachi against the 10 most popular leads:
-Metagross: It will 2HKO me with EQ, but I can trick it and switch into Salamence
-Azelf: Tbh, I don't know what to do: I useally 2HKO it with Iron Head, but tricking it would be better. When they used Fire Punch, I can easilly switch into Heatran and be happy.
-Jirachi: U-Turn into Heatran.
-Swampert: Trick it, when he used SR, I'm free to do what I want. When it used EQ, I can switch into Salamence and boost it with DD.
-Aerodactyl: I useally 1HKO it with Iron Head (2HKO actually, because they all have Focus Sash)
-Infernape: He will use Fake Out first, then SR or a fire move. I useally trick it and react what he's doing.
-Hippowdon: I don't know, I never saw one
-Bronzong: I guess it will 0HKO me, when I trick it, but I can switch into Salamence.
-Ninjask: No trouble when it hasn't Protect, because I will outspeed it and trick it. It can cause big trouble when it has Protect and outspeed me after one turn using Substitute in the second turn, when I used Trick in the first one. Then, he has a free Baton Pass whatever.
-Tyranitar: I guess I'll kill it with Iron Head?

As you can see, Jirachi is a good lead. It has answers against most leads and when not, it can switch into a counter.

Special sweeper: You need to love it

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
4HP/252Spe/252SpA
Modest - Flash Fire
<Flamethrower>
<Earth Power>
<Dragon Pulse>
<Hidden Power Grass>

I took Heatran, because she's a very strong Pokémon and she outspeeds like everything when scarf'd. You can it use her early, to break some walls, but also late after all of her counters are already dead. That's what I love about her. Also, Flash Fire and her good resistances make it easy to switch into it.

Flamethrower is the main STAB. Please don't tell me to use Fire Blast, when I use it, I always miss when I need it to hit. Also, the debuff when using it, is also very bad. Earth Power is granted. Dragon Pulse is for dragons. HP Grass is for Swampert (/other Pokémon with a 4x weakness). EVs are for max damage/speed.

I don't know what to say more: It's the usual build. Good type and type coverage with it's attacks. You can switch in Heatran easily, as you can revenge kill with it.

Wish support: Somehow it doesn't work

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
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188HP/252Def/68Spe
Bold - Water Absorb
<Wish>
<Protect>
<Surf>
<Hidden Power Electric>

I took Vaporeon, because I needed a bulky water type. Before, I had Swampert as my bulky water type, but it was a disappointment. Can't tell why, but it was just useless and didn't fill a role in my team. So, I decided to search another one and I found it: Vaporeon. Wish support isn't generally a bad idea and at that time I really needed a Gyarados-counter, because one could easily sweep my team.

This thing should be somehow bulky and survive with Wish and Protect. Surf is for everything that doesn't resist it. HP Electric is for Gyarados as Vaporeon can tank him and kill it with HP Electric. Also, it is the best answer I have against Suicune (though she can outstall me).

But I somehow have trouble with it. Sometimes it is really worth gold, it's the key for success to win against the other team. Sometimes it's just plain worthless. I think it's time to replace it, but keep in mind, that I need something to counter Gyarados (and Suicune) instead, but I don't know why. The main issue I see is, that I can badly support my team with Wish, it seems only to work, when I play against a team, that tries to outstall me. My team isn't bulky enough to have wish support, I guess.

Mixed Wall: At least an attempt

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
4HP/252Def/252SpDef
Bold - Pressure
<Will-O-Wisp>
<Pain Split>
<Protect>
<Taunt>​

I took Dusknoir, because I needed a mixed wall and a ghost in my team. This set may look weird, but it proofed it usefullness in fights. It's useful, because people predict something else than this and counter it wrong. Then, I can easily outstall them.

Will-O-Wisp is used for status. I used it over Toxic, because less Pokémon resist Toxic than W-o-W. Also the -50% Atk provides me an immortal status against physical attackers. Pain Split is used for healing and damaging my opponent. Protect is for stalling, scouting and for Leftovers recovery. Taunt hinders Pokémon to boost themselves on my Dusknoir and I somehow needed a Pokémon in my party that can taunt.

The EV-spread may be weird, but it's an attempt to have a mixed wall and to get most use of Pain Split. As you can see, this thing gets useless when the enemy uses Substitute before I can taunt it, or against a fire type. I also have issues against Sleeptalkers.

Physical Sweeper: Dance with the dragon

Salamence @ Life Orb
4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Adamant - Intimidate
<Dragon Dance>
<Outrage>
<Earthquake>
<Roost>

Salamence was my first choice, because I needed a Pokémon resisting ground-moves as well a physical sweeper. Combined, it needed to boost it's attack, so I choosed Salamence.

This set is easy as pie: When possible - Dragon Dance and sweep your opponent's team with Outrage. Earthquake is for those steel and rock types that resist Outrage and are weak to EQ. Roost is the final choice, because Salamence is somehow bulky and when using late, you can roost after succesfull Outrage-sweep. Although I use it very rarely, just because my Salamence is either dead, or I kill myself in confusion.

I useally switch this in against scarf'd Pokémon that use a ground move, so I can easily boost it. Rarely I switch this against some walls, as Intimidate makes them even more weak offensively, as I may be able to pull some DD. Most times I use my Salamence, when it's counters are dead.

I like priority: Bullet Punch is my destiny

Scizor @ Choice Band
248HP/252Atk/8Spe
Adamant - Technician
<Bullet Punch>
<Pursuit>
<Superpower>
<U-Turn>

I had Lucario before, as a second physical sweeper, but it was a disappointment. Got killed to fast and I don't know, I couldn't use it right. Somehow I had trouble with boosted threats with low health at that time, so Scizor was the right choice. I use it as a revenge killer.

Bullet Punch is obviously the main attack, because of it's STAB, priority and Scizor's choice band. It can even hit opponents hard, that resist Bullet Punch. Pursuit is for people that think to switch in a counter to Scizor, Superpower is for Blissey and U-Turn is for scouting, mainly to switch into Heatran, which loves Fire.

Had great success with it and I'm happy with it. EVs should be clear, as well as the Choice Band. The main trouble I have is the Choice Band and I really see so much situations, I could easily boost it with SD, but I can't because I choice'd my Scizor. That somehow makes me sad...

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So guys, I need your help.
Rate my Team!

It'd be nice if you could help me with my Vaporeon, as well as searching better EV-ideas / moves for my Dusknoir. To be honest, I'd like to have Jirachi and Dusknoir in my team, cause I like them to much to replace them.

I'd like to post a threat list, but to be honest: I don't have enough experience to say exactly which Pokémon gives my team trouble, also I don't know all the sets of the OU-Pokémon.

But playing with it, I see that I have trouble with Suicune (can't effectively get rid of her) and Latias that boosted himself. Sometimes I have big trouble to break some walls.
EDIT: Jolteon and Porygon-Z also endanger my team

Thank you (hopefully you rate my team and help me...)
ya


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[Snorlaxe]

Hello, and welcome to Smogon! =)

You say that you are interested in replacing Vaporeon with a Gyarados and Suicune counter, and I have just that; Celebi. Celebi can counter every Bulky Water in OU flawlessly, and can easily force out set-up sweepers like CroCune and Gyarados with Perish Song. Here is the set:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Hp / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)
~ U-Turn
~ Perish Song
~ Leaf Storm
~ Recover

Being able to counter every Bulky Water in the game is quite an accomplishment, but Celebi boasts being able to do just that. Leaf Storm rips everythintg in its path to shreds, and 2HKOes Bulky Gyarados. With Celebi's great defenses, the only water type that can even 2HKO it is a +1 Ice Fang from Gyarados (a very uncommon move on Dos). U-Turn is a great move in case your opponent decides to send in a Celebi counter, Perish Song is a good Psuedo-Phazing move that forces set-up sweepers out, such as CroCune, DD Dos, DD Mence, and SD Lucario, rendering all of their stat boosts worthless. Leaf Storm is your primary choice of STAB, although Grass Knot is a perfectly acceptable option as well (although you give up the ability to hit Vaporeon and Lanturn hard). Recover is self-explanitory; a bulky Pokemon such as Celebi loves having some instant recovery to keep it around for a long, long time.

It should be noted that Celebi has a lot of trouble with Heatran and Weavile, but Salamence wrecks Heatran, and Scizor's Bullet Punch makes Weavile die faster than you can say "ouch". Celebi needs almost no other team support aside from having all of your opponents Pursuit users dead before it comes out; most of the common OU Pursuit users often see Celebi as Pursuit bait (a not entirely false judgement).

Anyway, I hope I helped, and good luck! =)

 

[E.A.]

But playing with it, I see that I have trouble with Suicune (can't effectively get rid of her) and Latias that boosted himself. Sometimes I have big trouble to break some walls.

To be honest, most of us hate it when a Latias / Suicune sets up on us. There is an easy way to kill them: Explosion. I would say put Explosion over Hidden Power Grass / Dragon Pulse, and change the nature of Heatran to Naive. I would place Explosion over Hidden Power Grass; Celebi can Grass Knot Swampert to death with litte fear of his feeble Ice Beams (31.68% - 37.62% damage from the standard Mixpert's Ice Beam.)

The other issue Pokemon: P-Z and Jolteon. P-Z is often choiced, and you can switch in the appropriate resist Pokemon, and you're all set. Also, for Jolteon, you can send in Celebi to take Thunderbolts and HP Grasses. Just be aware of Shadow Balls. Naive ScarfTran can also revenge kill Jolteon with Earth Power.

Alright, hope this helps.

 

[Zoom]

Thank you for your help.

As for Celebi:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Hp / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)
~ Leech Seed
~ Perish Song
~ Grass Knot
~ Recover

I'd like to make Celebi to stay a bit longer. That's the reason I choose Grass Knot over Leaf Storm. Leech Seed is for stalling out opponents, which don't kill me and resist grass attacks, while still being able to kill bulky water and get rid of boosted opponents. Also, this gives some support, especially for Dusknoir.

I've one question:
Does Perish Song also works against substitutes?


Also, I think it's a good idea to change Heatran's moves. Tbh: The only moves I seem to use with Heatran are Earth Power and Flamethrower. HP Grass doesn't seem even to 1HKO Swampert and Dragon Pulse is rarely used.

Like I said, I'd like to change my Dusknoir a little bit:
With the support of Celebi's Leech Seed, Dusknoir can stall better than before, even with W-o-W. I'd like to make him more oriented as a special wall, while Dusknoir can take physical hits as well, because of W-o-W.

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252HP/6Def/252SpD
Careful: (+SpD, -SpA)
~ Confuse Ray
~ Pain Split
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Will-O-Wisp

I gave Dusknoir a priority STAB, because he can get rid easier with physical attackers, when he stalls them out. Confuse Ray is for getting free turns and to force switches. Get rid of Taunt, because Dusknoir is way to slow to taunt effectively.

Just a question:
Would Curse work with a ghost type? It would only work when the opponent is a wall with weak offense. I could payback the dmg I suffered with Pain Split and maybe even outstall Blissey, or force switches.

Again: Thank you for your help
Now, I need to test the changes and than I update the OP. Also, I need to upload the pictures on a neutral host...

 

[Maid-]

hm, i know you'd like to maximize pain split on your dusknoir, but a much better ev spread would be
252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
this is because dusknoir will benefit much more from the hp, it's health is just way too low to not do that if you want to have and sort of walling abilities.

your pain splits will still be effective, and you'll see you're taking hits better. more spd evs were allocated because of will o wisp and a bold nature.

if you feel your vaporeon isn't cutting it and your team isn't bulky enough for wish support, i would reccommend a starmie.

starmie @ life orb/expert belt
nature: timid
ability: natural cure
ev's: 252 SpA/252 Sp/4 HP

moves:
surf/hydro pump
thunderbolt
ice beam
recover/psychic/grass knot

the first slot is pretty important. since you're pursuit bait and will not survive a cb pursuit from a scizor, hydro pump would be a good choice over surf to take care of scizor easily after stealth rock damage. normally, i would go with the more conservative option, but hydro pump is also a decent choice here.

in the last slot, you get minimal coverage or a recovery move for a pokemon who won't stay around for very long anyway. i would recommend grass knot for you if you're having trouble getting rid of suicune and are worried about switch ins like e-vire to your thunderbolts.

this set would also work as a choice specs set, if you're up for that and seeing that this one is lacking power. i just noticed you already have a couple choiced attackers and normally it isn't good to stack them up too much unless you have a good spinner.

i would hate to completely change the role of a pokemon like that, but if you don't think wish support is right for your team, i'm sure you would be happy with this. starmie is fun to toy around with the moves/items, and it's pretty diverse. you could use him as a spinner if you feel you need it, but he doesn't effectively stop spin-blockers too well.

i know this is probably unorthodox, but could someone rate my rate of his team? this is my first time, and i want to see what some of the more experienced posters think.

 

[iKitsune]

This team has the majority has the majority of threats covered. Between just Jirachi, Heatran and Vaporeon you can revenge kill most set up sweepers and anything else you should happen to face, congrats that is an achievement in its self. Not only this you have stall covered through the use of DD mence who will wreck most of them. DD mence will likely OHKO even skarmory with +1 Outrage and SR in play. So if you manage to get a DD you should damage stall enough so victory is yours.

I disagree with snorlaxz, i dont think this team needs a celebi, Vaporeon perfectly covers what celebi would cover but it also walls Infernape and any other Fire types who could easily lay into this team and they predict the Heatran switch. Latias is certainly not a problem you have ample checks for it. I would consider putting explosion on Heatran. This would be the set:

Heatran @Choice Scarf
Naive
252spa/252sp

Fire Blast
Earth Power
Explosion
Dragon Pulse

The only problem i really see with this team is dusknoir. It doesnt really do anything and i feel it is dead weight in OU. I would prefer to have a Rotom-A with Rest Talk in this slot instead. Rotom makes the perfect switch into Metagross leads and other steels. It has excellent resistances most importantly for this team it has a ground resistance but also an electric resistance, not only this Rotom gives you some Gyarados insurance should Vaporeon fall to it and a good switch into sleep/status. Of course rotom blocks spin too so Salamece should have an easy time sweeping.

This is the set:

Rotom-H@ Leftovers
252hp/188def/68spe
Bold

Thunderbolt
WoW/Shadow Ball
Rest
Sleep Talk

I prefer WoW to nail the CB ttar switch and just spread burn about but the choice is up to you.

Hope this helps good luck with the team.

 

[Cold Hard Facts]

Hi, was browsing the RMTs and I noticed yours is pretty much exactly the same as mine lol. Been having some success with it, the only difference on my team is that I run a Resttalking Rotom in place of dusknoir. It handly counters Metagross leads (stealth rock w/ jirachi then switch to Rotom, metagross rarely EQs the first turn.) It also takes on scizor well if you switched into any of the first three attacks. If it comes into you, as long as you manage to hit it with a will-o-wisp you'll beat it (pursuit does ~60-65% normal and fails to 2HKO after being hit by w-o-w.) It can also counter gyara if Vaporeon down. Anyways here's the set, similar to the set above with discharge to paralyze steels/anything switching in and with more defense EVs.

Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Sp.Def
Moves:
- Discharge
- Will-o-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Can serve as some what of a mixed wall with the Sp.Def EVs.

Another problem I'm having is with CM latias. If it manages to get in with no damage, bullet punch from scizor only does about 60-70%. Not sure about U-turn and pursuit but I believe it's about the same. After that it can switch out and come in later to heal with recover.

As mentioned above put Explosion over HP grass on Heatran, it's really only useful for Swampert. You could also replace Dragon Pulse with explosion and go for HP electric although Vaporeon really does this better. HP ice can also be good to OHKO gliscor and salamence 100% of the time. Dragon Pulse does 75-85% so that's a KO w/ stealth rock damage provided mence is running no HP/Sp.D evs.

DD mence has swept my team a couple times if it can get past Dragon Pulse from Heatran and Bullet Punch from Scizor (only does about 50% so I need to weaken it first.) This can probably said for most teams though as there are few things taking down a +1 Life Orb salamence.

Oh yeah, if you're gonna run roost on salamence you should probably go for a bulky one with dragon claw over outrage. Otherwise go for 232 Atk / 24 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe with Naughty/Naive nature and Fire Blast over roost. The Sp.Atk evs ensure an OHKO on skarmory w/ Fire Blast.

Anyways, hoped this helped, sorry for the wall of text. I haven't had any other glaring problems coming up other than these and just bad luck (critical hits, predicted wrong, etc.)

Edit: Not really a problem seeing as three team members can deal with it but Blissey just sucks lol. If it's the last pokemon rotom can burn it then stall 'till the cows come home. Jirachi can trick it a scarf and cripple it. Scizor can OHKO with superpower thought if you've tricked it a scarf it will outspeed and OHKO with flamethrower. Salamence OHKOs with outrage though locking yourself in stinks as they'll often switch.

 

[Crudkip]

Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Sp.Def
Moves:
- Discharge
- Will-o-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Really needs 88Spe EVs so that you can WoW Tyranitar before he can destroy Rotom with either STAB Crunch or Pursuit.

As to the team: Looks Specs Jolt weak, nothing can switch in on a STAB Thunder Bolt, which may be why you are finding Wish Passing hard: as nothing resists Electric. Also Modest ScarfTran with 252Spe is a no-no, either 232Spe to outrun 192Spe Infernape or Naive/Timid with 252Spe. Which (iirc) outruns Base 130's (though I'm not too sure) which means you can take one Thunder Bolt from Jolt, then OHKO back with Earth Power, not a counter, but a check at least.

 

[Brass]

Overall I think it is a pretty well built team especailly in such a short period of time. As for your vaporeon I recommend toxic instead of protect. You already have hidden power elec to take gyrados down. And dusknoir can take the predicted explosions. Toxic beats all suicunes except for crocunes