OU RMT Please help. I need this for a tournament.

Black Lotus

Black Lotus

Thank you anyone who came to read this. I really need help with this team. I built it to counter the top Pokemon of October 2009, but I still have been having trouble with some of them. I will give a list of them at the end of the RMT and I will continue to add to this list as I continue playing with this team.

Overview
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Statistics
tyranitar.png

Tyranitar
EVs: 252 HP/118 Atk/8 Spe/132 SpD
Nature: Careful
Ability: Sand Stream
Item: Lum Berry
Moves:
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Down Deeper:
My original Specially Bulky Choice Band Tyranitar has been changed to a Lead Tyranitar. This set will allow me to get Stealth Rock up, get my sandstorm going as soon as possible, and also keep the coverage of my other set. The EV spread is basically the same as the other set, but more concentrated on its bulkiness than before. Lum Berry is to be able to counter status leads, example Roserade, which otherwise would’ve been able to set up on the previous set with relative ease. Again the moves on this Lead Tyranitar are different from the average one because I would like to keep Tyranitar as an attacker and not just the lead for Stealth Rock.
gyarados.png

Gyarados
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
Item: Leftovers
Moves:
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Stone Edge/Return
Down Deeper:
My original Offensive Dragon Dance Gyarados has been changed to a Bulky Gyarados. This set makes a better counter to the likes of Lucario, Infernape, Skarmory, etc. The EV spread is obviously much different from the original as this set means to increase Gyarados’ bulkiness while still being able to hit the opponent hard. It’s the standard Bulky Gyarados set, but I was somewhat skeptical on putting Return on it, but because I didn’t have any other ideas on what to use as his last attack I left it at that.
scizor.png

Scizor
EVs: 162 HP/176 Atk/168 SpD/4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
Item: Choice Band
Moves:
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Down Deeper:
This Pokemon should need no introduction, as it is the top Pokemon in standard usage as of last month and months before that. There isn’t much to say here because its just the standard Specially Bulky Choice Band Scizor. I did change Bug Bite into U-Turn from my original set, as requested. Pursuit was chosen over Night Slash to trap pesky Ghosts and Psychics and Superpower was chosen over Brick Break for the major increase in power.
gliscor.png

Gliscor
EVs: 252 HP/40 Atk/216 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand Veil
Item: Leftovers
Moves:
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stone Edge
Down Deeper:
Gliscor helps take care of my problem with Machamp and Lucario. It also offers offensive prowess and doesn't slow the team down like Blissey did. Gliscor also acts as a counter to Tyranitar, which also has been giving me trouble lately. Standard Swords Dance Gliscor. I chose Stone Edge just for coverage and the better use of Sand Veil.
latias.png

Latias
EVs: 6 Def/252 Spe/252 SpA
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
Item: Life Orb
Moves:
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
Down Deeper:
Life Orb Latias has the power to kill while, in contrast to a Choice set, being able to switch attacks. Meaning a lower weakness to entry hazards and being able to rely on it to hit things and not need to run directly afterwords. I changed it from a Choice Scarf set because I have Rotom-H which kills basically everything that Latias does. Everything is standard. I chose Thunderbolt over Dragon Pulse for coverage and I don't mind just having Draco Meteor for STAB.
rotomheat.png

Rotom-H
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spe/252 SpA
Nature: Modest
Ability: Levitate
Item: Choice Scarf
Moves:
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
Down Deeper:
My original Bulky Status Rotom-H was changed to a Choice Scarf Rotom-H. This changed helped solve this team’s problems with Lucario, Jirachi, and Breloom all in one fix! Rotom-H now acts as a great revenge killer as well. Though with this changed this team packs more of a punch rather than being able to cripple the opponent with status.

As promised above I have been playing with this team for a while and it works well, as it is meant to counter the most common Pokemon in standard play, but there are a select number of Pokemon that still tend to give this team some trouble. If you could give feedback on how this team should be able to counter any of these or if you could make suggestions for counters to any of these Pokemon it would be greatly appreciated.
 - Machamp

Again I will continue to add to this as I continue to play with this team. Thank you for any and all feedback on this.
 
You can try a bulkier version of gyarados to help with breloom a lot and hitachi to some extent as well...

This team is actually very similar to mine... I even run specially defensive tyranitar lol

speaking of which I think you might have a little trouble facing the gyarados I just suggested

as a final note, USE UTURN ON SCIZOR! It's really his biggest asset, and the free turn it gives you can be used to... Well set up gyara... I'm trying really hard not to suggest everything I use
 
since your using will-o-wisp on rotom H, i think you should go for t-bolt instead of discharge. you don't wann accidently paralyze someone who you wanna burn. Thats what I ended up doing for my rotom-H although, I'm using him more offensivly than you. I found Pain Split to be unreliable on Rotom-H as well.

your blissey confuzzles me. 6 EVs alone isn't gonna make flamethrower any more powerful on her. I'd rethink that if I were you. Also, I'd take some SpDef EVs and put it into her HP to further cushion physical blows.

I hope this helps.
 
Tyranitar: You should carry rocks on this, perhaps for crunch? Scizor and Gyarados will NEED rocks up, for them to work successfully.

On scizor, U-Turn > Bug bite. Always, I don't even know why I need to say this.. Lol.
The team, overrall is Lucario weak. I'll suggest taking out Cresselia for Skarmory. If you do this, you should be able to keep your lead, and still have something to set up rocks and 'phaze'. On rotom-h, i suggest the choice set:

modest @ choice scarf
252 sp.atk / 252 spe / 4 hp
Moves: Thunder bolt / Hidden Power Fighting / Overheat / Trick

This should be a check for jirachi, and breloom if the sub is broken and a pokemon on your team is already asleep. Choice scarf, and a modest will guarantee overheat ohko'ing scizor, breloom, and a possible 252/252/4 jirachi. You can also utilize trick to cripple the opponent. Overrall, YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE LUCARIO AS A THREAT. Pretty much generic OU if you ask me.. With somethings that need improvements.


GL in the tourney, I hope my rate helped.
 
I don't like Life Orb Gyarados without recovery on a team with no spinner, no wish support, and a Tyranitar lead. It seems that your team doesn't have a lot of actual synergy; almost like you just slapped together a lot of overused pokemon hoping a good team would come out of it.

I'd switch Tyranitar to a lead spec, or move him elsewhere, as CBs hit hard but are really predictable, and your opponent will be able to set up on it with a number of different leads including Roserade, Azelf, Ninjask; Hippowdon and Bronzong will both laugh and set up AND kill Tyranitar. What's more, with Scizor, you've got two Choicebanders with no need for them both. And what's more, stealth rocks will make this team so much better.

Gyarados just doesn't work right now, and since you need a phazer, I'd suggest making him the resttalk and roar set. If not, consider wish support from Blissey.

Scizor is okay, but you should consider U-turn for the tactical advantage it can give.

If you're giving Blissey so little special attack, you should consider replacing Flamethrower with Seismic Toss so she can get rid of substitutes. The double status seems like a waste of moves, especially since you have another T-waver on your team. Maybe give Wishbliss a try, so as to have some more recovery for Cresselia whose leftovers are negated by Sandstorm?

As for Cresselia, another double-statuser on a supposed sweeper doesn't make much sense to me. Unfortunately, with Sandstorm up Cresselia's best bet at recovery, Moonlight, is pretty lackluster. I'd go with Charge Beam, Ice Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk; that way you have a status absorber, an INCREDIBLY bulky boosting sweeper, and a wall at the same time.

Rotom I have no issue with, although you're doing the double-status thing again with Discharge and WoW. Thunderbolt will give a boost in power and you won't paralyze any physical attackers (eg, Scizor) you meant to burn.

Good luck with your team.
 
The team, overrall is Lucario weak. I'll suggest taking out Cresselia for Skarmory.
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Well I wouldn't say that. If Lucario carries Crunch then Gyarados can kill 'em with EQ, with Stone Edge Rotom-H can Overheat. If it really bothers you, then I would suggest Gliscor as it is the best counter for Lucario or ScarfRotom-H. Outspeed Luke then Overheat. WOW!, ScarfRotom-H also counters Breloom and Jirachi..

You can try Trick Room on Cresselia, replacing Toxic and Thunder Wave > Moonlight. Trick Room benefits some members of your team, such as Tyranitar(which is really good), Scizor(allows you to fully use Bug bite and abuse Technician). With Trick Room activated, Tyranitar and Scizor would seriously weaken your opponents team, then you can finish it with Gyarados(At least get a Dragon Dance). If your going to try what I suggested, I suggest changing Scizor's EV Spread > 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD. Overall you have a good team.. Good Luck!!
 
Hey Black Lotus, seems like a pretty solid team however there are a few changes I think would help with your threat list. Lets start off with your lead. I think Stealth Rock would help here a bit.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry | Sand Stream
Adamant | 252 HP / 4 Atk / 240 Spe / 12 Spe
Stone Edge / Pursuit / Earthquake / Stealth Rock

The Attack EVs score at minimum 95% on Roserade leads so Sandstorm kills them off. If they choose to use Sleep Powder they achieve nothing. This also goes the same for Smeargle leads. Pursuit is still here to help take down Scarf Rotom-A, Latias, etc.

As for Gyarados I think replacing Ice Fang for Stone Edge would be highly beneficial. With this you can hit opposing Gyarados as well as Salamence and Zapdos.

As for Scizor U-turn is much more beneficial than Bug Bite. Sure it has more base power but U-turn gives you the ability to scout your opponent which is rather valuable.

To fix your Jirachi, Lucario, and Breloom problem you can opt to use a faster spread on Rotom-h to beat out Adamant Lucario as well as hit Breloom (provided you let something sleep)

Rotom-h @ Leftovers | Levitate
Timid | 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 Spe
Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Rest or Light Screen / Will-O-Wisp

With this set you outspeed Adamant Lucario and Thunderbolt/Will-O-Wisp it. It also outspeeds Breloom so you can just Shadow Ball to break its Substitutes. Gyarados also acts as a Lucario and Breloom check to an extent. You can use Rest but if you don't want to have to wait 2 turns of being vulnerable you can opt to use this Blissey:

Blissey @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
Calm | 252 Def / 4 Spe / 252 SpD
Flamethrower / Toxic / Wish / Protect

With Wish Bliss your able to heal your members that cannot heal themselves mainly Gyarados and Rotom-h as they carry a Fighting resist/immunity. I think Flamethrower would do better here as Sub Gengar and Sub Rotom can be quite a threat.

As for Cresselia, I feel its rather just dead weight. I think Latias would help quite a bit. Giving you a second check to Gyarados and a check to Salamence and Infernape.

Latias @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
Timid | 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt / Surf / Trick

Scarf Latias gives a surprise factor, as Shoddy and Wi-Fi are two different metagames imo. Most Latias I see are rather Specs, LO, or CM so it can help catch +2 Adamant Gyarados, +1 DD Salamence, and other stuff.

Hope I helped!
 
Thank you to everyone who has given feedback thus far. I have taken most of your advise and made changes to the team, it is as shown now, and I will continue testing with this new team.
 
You could run Stone Edge on Tauntados, over Return. Return is marginally better against Celebi, but Stone Edge hits opposing Gyarados, Salamence, and Zapdos really hard.
 
Tyranitar should have 112 Atk EVs in place of SpD. This guarantees that Stone Edge will OHKO the standard 4 HP / min Roserade lead when factoring Sandstorm in.

I would also use Superpower in place of Earthquake with 8 Spe EVs in place of SpD. The leads that you would use Earthquake on, Metagross, Jirachi, and Infernape, you would not leave Tyranitar in on. Superpower helps against the leads that you would leave Ttar in on, like Heatran, who commonly carries a Shuca Berry, and opposing Ttar leads (the 8 Spe EVs are to outrun opposing Ttar).
 
Darkmalice said:
Tyranitar should have 112 Spe EVs in place of SpD. This guarantees that Stone Edge will OHKO the standard 4 HP / min Roserade lead when factoring Sandstorm in.

I would also use Superpower in place of Earthquake with 8 Spe EVs in place of SpD. The leads that you would use Earthquake on, Metagross, Jirachi, and Infernape, you would not leave Tyranitar in on. Superpower helps against the leads that you would leave Ttar in on, like Heatran, who commonly carries a Shuca Berry, and opposing Ttar leads (the 8 Spe EVs are to outrun opposing Ttar).
Click to expand...

I think you meant to say 112 Atk EVs. Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about in your first suggestion.
 
It says in the analysis that Hidden Power Ground is for Heatran. But your team shouldn't have a problem with Heatran at all. I suggest changing to Shadow Ball because of Stab. It makes it so you aren't walled by Swampert so easily and damages other ghosts like another scarfed Rotom or Gengar expecting to catch a scarf and waste your time.
 
Hello.

You have a rather huge DDTar weakness, which I don't think anyone has brought up. Thanks to Babiri Berry, Scizor's Bullet Punch can only scrape off half of Tyranitar's health, then will die to Fire Punch. Gyarados and Blissey are easily killed by Stone Edge, while Crunch takes care of Rotom-H and Latias. Your Tyranitar, at full health, can probably survive even a +1 Earthquake, but seeing as it is leading, it is unlikely it will be at full health late in the game when DDTar is likely to show.

You do have some insurance against Tyranitar, and that's Rotom-H's Hidden Power Fighting. But that will not even OHKO the mighty Tyranitar, managing 68% at best. So sure you could sac Scizor to weaken Tyranitar, then finish it off with Rotom-H but why go through the trouble. The easiest Pokemon to replace is Blissey. You have a bulky offensive team, why divert from that by adding a stall Pokemon? Replacing Blissey will also reduce your Pursuit weak, which is huge, having two Pokemon already weak to it holding Choice items and then adding a Blissey. Between Tyranitar, Scizor, and Latias, you have practically all the Special Attacking threats covered already, without altering the pace of the game. To this end, I suggest an offensive Gliscor:

Gliscor @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil or Hyper Cutter
Nature: Jolly / EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Speed
- Swords Dance / Earthquake / Roost / Stone Edge or Baton Pass

Gliscor would work so very well on your team, countering Tyranitar, Heracross, while also being able to take out a weakened team. The EV spread is standard, enabling you to outspeed Jolly Lucario and neutral natured base 100s, namely Salamence, whom you promptly OHKO with Stone Edge (same with Gyarados / Dragonite) after a Swords Dance. One of the great things about Gliscor is that it learns Baton Pass. Let's say you set up a Swords Dance as a Lucario switches out and incomes a full health Suicune. Gliscor can't beat a Suicune, so what do you do? Baton Pass to Gyarados, who easily shrugs off a resisted Surf or Ice Beam. Then you can proceed to Dragon Dance too further boost your Attack, but more importantly your Speed. Very few Pokemon can stand in your way from there, as Gyarados' most popular counter, Rotom-A, is easily OHKOed by a +3 Waterfall. So basically, when you can't sweep anymore, you can pass your boosts onto something that can. If you aren't using Baton Pass, then I'd suggest Life Orb to greatly increase your power. If you are using Baton Pass, then Leftovers will suffice as you likely won't be attacking as often. Similarly, use Hyper Cutter with Baton Pass so you don't pass a -1 boost if Gyarados comes in. Also note that Sand Veil is extemely helpful in reliably countering DDTar, as in sand, Tyranitar's Stone Edge will have a mere 60% accuracy against Gliscor. This means you can Roost until it misses and finish off Tyranitar with an Earthquake, or simply stall it out of PP.

Good luck.

EDIT: Gliscor is also one of the best Machamp counters, who you mention having trouble with. Few Machamp run Ice Punch, and eventually confusion will wear off, so Gliscor will eventually defeat Machamp with few problems thanks to its huge Defense stat and resistance to Fighting-type moves.
 
hi, i'm vashta.

i actually like this team, and there is little that i can suggest, but there are one or two minor nitpicks that i would like to address. primarily, the idea of your team being very weak to lucario and opposing tyranitar. now, the reasoning for why your team is actually weak to lucario is the fact that stone edge lucario causes quite a few problems for gyarados (that can't continuously switch in, especially when stealth rock is present). yes, i know that you have a rotom-h, but that could easily be removed from play by the ever-present pursuiter+lucario combination, or the prospect of rotom-h being limited of the switches it can make into its attacks -- especially when it lacks recovery. with regard to your tyranitar weakness, you appear to be especially weak to choice band tyranitar which none of your team can switch into without taking significantly heavy damage, which, for most members, exceeds the 60/70% mark, so you're constantly forced to revenge kill it.

i would like to suggest the inclusion of gliscor over blissey due to the fact that blissey severely slows down this offensive team and the fact that the pokémon that blissey covers are generally covered by current members of the team with little effort and minimal switching needed. the suggested set deals with both lucario and tyranitar, and acts as a back-up to machamp that may carry payback but not ice punch. taunt prevents stall from setting up, and u-turn allows you to scout to your advantage. i would suggest the following set:

gliscor @ leftovers
ability: sand veil
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
jolly nature
- earthquake
- roost
- taunt
- u-turn / toxic

With regards to your current Latias set, I don't really see the point in it being a choice scarfer, mainly because you have checks for the pokémon latias generally uses choice scarf to check/evade (i.e. rotom-h can deal with gyarados, which shouldn't even be reaching +2, and scizor revenges salamence/can switch into its outrage and outrage its ass). changing your current set to a life orb sweeper means that you can actually threaten opponents, and you aren't at risk of being trapped by the likes of choice band tyranitar and scizor who are -depending on set- generally 2hkoed by life orb surf + stealth rock. with this item change, you're permitted to use roost over trick for survivability purposes.

now, with the addition of gliscor, you may want to rethink your rotom-h's moveset; utilizing shadow ball > hidden power fighting may be a useful move for when you need to revenge kill pokemon such as gengar which could be problematic. especially if it has life orb. you could optionally change your rotom-h's ev spread to 252 HP / 40 Def or SpA / 216 Spe so you can outpace jolly gyarados after +1 dragon dance (i believe) and you are able to take a life orbed waterfall from adamant gyarados' (which hurt your current set a lot). my final suggestion, now blissey is gone, is that you may want to change you scizor's ev spread to a more specially defensively orientated one, so you're able to handle the likes of substitute rotom-a better, and you're able to switch into draco meteors from threats from salamence, and you're able to take a life orb hydro pump from max special attack starmie. the ev spread i suggest would be 162 HP / 176 Atk / 168 SpD / 4 Spe -- you're still given enough speed to outpace minimum speed vaporeon, but be slower than opposing u-turn scizor which is beneficial when you need to scout opponents. you're still given physical defense through the hp investment, but even more so on the special side of the defensive spectrum. the attack allows you to ko celebi with uturn, and revenge salamences with 55%-60% (depending on sandstorm) after life orb and stealth rock recoil.

good luck.
 
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