FIRST WORDS..
Hey guys! This is my third RMT here on Smogon, and I'm back for some advice on my new team. I guess you could say I'm going in a different direction here, so I don't very well know what I'm doing. (as if I ever did) Any advice would be stellar!
I originally centered this team around sub-CM Jirachi, but somehow, I ended up with two powerful set up sweepers. Skip on down to the "Extras" section to see my team building process if you'd like to know more!
This team pretty much revolves around getting T-Spikes up, wearing down or eliminating counters, and setting up either a Sub-CM Jirachi sweep, or a Crocune sweep, two oft-overlooked sweepers. This team also has some pretty sweet synergy, and usually wins about 8 out of 10 games, which I'm kinda proud of. Thanks a lot in advance for your advice!
Anyways, here is your all important glance:
Team Ivysaur! (Heh.):
Some Quick Facts!:
-Only 1 Pokemon is affected by Toxic Spikes. And that Pokemon, Suicune, can easily rest off the Poison. Everyone else is either immune, or can absorb T-Spikes altogether. This really helps with Stall players who rely on residual damage.
-No Pokemon is weak to SR. Most resist it, in fact. This is very helpful as it allows me to switch around in long matches. It's good that nothing takes a huge chuck of damage just from switching in.
-2 Pokemon can absorb Status. Roserade with Natural Cure, Crocune with rest. This allows me to absorb Paralysis that Latias really hates.
Now, what you all came here for!
The Lead:
Roserade (F) @
Natural Cure
4 HP/252 Sp. Att/252 Spe
Timid
-Sleep Powder
-Toxic Spikes
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Leaf Storm
Roserade is a great user of Toxic Spikes and a great lead overall. I never thought a UU Pokemon could do so well in OU. This set is really simple, it allows me to cripple to opponents Lead with Sleep Powder, (or whatever they switch in) and from there, set up Toxic Spikes. I can normally get up 2 layers thanks to Focus Sash. This lead also isn't hindered too badly by TrickRachi, as with a Choice Scarf, Roserade can easily become a decent revenge killer and can induce fast sleep in a pinch.
Most leads can't outright beat Roserade, and as long as the someone shaky accuracy of Sleep Powder pays off, I can start the battle off right.
After TSpikes are up, Roserade isn't just useless death fodder, either, a nice bonus. She can absorb status thanks to Natural Cure, KO bulky waters with Leaf Storm, and walls Celebi quite well.
But why did I even want Toxic Spikes so badly? Well, that's a good question. Suicune and Jirachi really appreciate it, as they now have opponents slowly succumbing to Toxic Poison while I set up in their faces. Suicune especially, as Blissey won't be sticking around to sponge hits when it's poisoned. It really helps in the long run, and allows me to stall out if need be.
I'm considering HP [Ground] so I'm not lolwalled by Heatran, would that be kind of redundant?
Why I am using Roserade over Foretress:
My friend asked me that when I asked him to review my team before writing this, so I thought I should explain. I'm using Roserade over Foretress for quite a few reasons. Here are the pros and cons I thought of while choosing the leads.
-Much faster
-Sleep Powder
-Can absorb status later on
-Can absorb Scarf and Specs later on
-Powerful Grass type STAB
-Can kills some steels in a pinch
-Absorbs Toxic Spikes
-No 4x weakness
Cons:
-Less sturdy
-No Explosion
-No Stealth Rock
-No Rapid Spin, although my team doesn't hate SR too much.
-More weaknesses
-Stealth Rock AND Toxic Spikes
-Spikes, if I really wanted them
-Less weaknesses overall
-Explosion, in a pinch
-Much better defenses
-Rapid Spin
Cons:
-Slower
-4x weakness
-Fails to damage opposing leads very hard
-Seems like it might end up as deadweight or death fodder
-No sleep powder
After looking over both of the Pokemon, I decided Roserade would be better for my team, since my team doesn't hate SR too much, I didn't really need Rapid Spin. Also, Heatran learns Explosion if I need to use it in a tight spot. I really do miss having SR though.
Please note I have no experience using Foretress, so I might seem a tad biased.
Synergy:
---> Heatran, Suicune, Jirachi
The Scout:
Scizor (M)@
Tecnician
248 HP/252 Att/8 Spe
Adamant
-Bullet Punch
-Pursuit
-Super Power
-U-Turn
WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED?
I MEAN, NO ONE USES IT AND ALL
SCIZOR FOR NU
/caps lock
This Pokemon is the definition of bog standard. Who doesn't use him? Well, there's good reason to use Scizor. It fits so well with any team, and is ridiculously easy to abuse. I won't spend time explaining the set, because everyone knows what this does and why it has the moves it has, etc. etc.
Rather, I guess I'll explain why I put it on my team, why this set, the works. Scizor was originally put on this team as a Scout, (and a good one) and a way to deal with Blissey, as my team has some difficulty with her until they're fully set up. He can revenge many threats with Bullet Punch, one of the the main reason Scizor is used. U-Turn leaves a huge dent in anything that doesn't resist it, and allows me to Scout the opponents team, also allowing me to get in Suicune or Jirachi in without a hassle.
Synergetically, it works quite well with Suicune, allowing it to get into the fray unscathed without having to make a sacrifice, while denting an opponents Pokemon in the process. As Scizor tends to lure Heatran, Suicune can threaten out 90% of the time, getting a free Calm Mind and building up pressure on the opponent. As a combo, they really work wonders.
Scizor works well as a Blissey check, either denting it hardcore or KOing with Super Power. I'm using the Choice Band set for raw power right off the bat, and because I already have enough set up sweepers as it is. Early on in the match, I always U-turn to scout for Magnezone, as I don't want a major asset to my team to be trapped and killed.
I know there's probably a better EV spread, if someone wants to suggest one that'd be sweet.
Synergy:
Set Up Sweeper #1
Suicune @
Pressure
252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe
Bold
-Surf
-Calm Mind
-Sleep Talk
-Rest
Set up sweeper #1, and a defensive beast. I don't care what anyone says, Suicune is a cheetah, even though it isn't that fast. I mean, look at those spots! And it runs like the north wind. It's a cheetah. Not a gerbil. :3
Nice typing and Defensive Bulk allows it to take hits from the physical side, and after a couple CMs, absorbs most (unboosted) special attacks thrown at it. Everyone who played ADV should know and love Suicune. Although Suicune has taken somewhat of a fall from grace, it can still take down many of today's top threats with relative ease.
With a mono attacking set like this, there are the obvious drawbacks. It can hardly touch Bulky Waters like Swampert, and it utterly walled by Vaporeon. That's where the rest of my team comes into play. Heatran lures bulky waters like whoa, And can safely stall out for Toxic damage from behind a sub, KO with HP [Grass], switch to Roserade and knock them right out, or Latias can come in and mess them up with ThunderBolt. Jirachi can also usually set up on bulky waters not named Swampert. As with almost anything else, Scizor can come in and make a huge dent with U-turn.
Almost everything on my team can put the hurt on bulky waters, and with 6 CMs under it's belt, even Suicune can take on it's brothers, and can PP stall Vaporeon out if absolutely necessary.
Another bane to Suicune's success would be Salamence and Gyarados. Both are easily revenged by Latias, even after a DD. Scizor can also take a big chunk out of Salamence's HP with Bullet Punch. I usually have these guys out of the way before setting up Crocune anyways.
Suicune really appreciates the Toxic Spikes support set up by Roserade, as even the most renowned Special Wall, Blissey, can't stay in to sponge hits from Crocune very long if it's slowly dying from Toxic Poison, and fails to even make a dent, as her meager attacks and statuses are easily rested off. Roserade also absorbs Toxic Spikes that would otherwise be really annoying for Suicune, and the two go hand in hand.
What Crocune really hates is being Tricked, so I have 3 things that can absorb a Scarf or Specs, (Latias, Roserade and Heatran wouldn't mind in the least, they would do quite well with those) and Scizor can absorb a Band, as he already has one of his own.
Synergy:
Set Up Sweeper #2:
Jirachi @
Serene Grace
252 HP/80 Sp. Att/176 Spe
Timid
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Flash Cannon
-Thunderbolt
What this team was really built to help, and usually ends up being the MVP! (If Crocune doesn't steal the glory) I know it may seem a little redundant to have two CM sweepers, but it works surprisingly well. There are lots of Pokemon Jirachi can set up on, and it scares out a ton of Pokemon, allowing me to get a free Sub and CM my way to victory!
For those of you who have never seen a sub-CM Jirachi in action, you haven't seen Jirachi used to it's full potential. Normally, we know Jirachi as the king of hax, but this set takes it in a different direction. This Jirachi can set up on a pleathora of Pokemon, such as Toxic Blissey, Bulky Waters (Not Swampert), and anything specially oriented that fails to break it's Sub. With the given EVs, 101 subs are created, so even with Seismic Toss, Blissey can't break your subs, allowing you to CM in its face. The speed EVs are to outrun Jolly Mamoswine, and the rest are poured into Special Attack for extra damage.
Things that threaten me while I'm unboosted are Tyranitar, Mamoswine and Heatran. They are too risky to Calm Mind against, but be dented while they break my sub, and then I can easily switch to Suicune for all three, and Scizor for the two former. Synergetically, those 3 work together well do dent, stall and break the opponents core down and easily make way for a sweep.
Against Blissey 1 on 1, Jirachi should always come out on top. Flash Cannon and Serene grace can usually net a Sp. Def drop, making her much easier to take out. Flash Cannon and Thunderbolt give me the better coverage over Psychic and Thunderbolt, as I'm walled less by Tyranitar. Conversely, I'm walled more by Swampert and Lucario.
Another thing that's really nice about Jirachi is it's resistance to all priority. Ice Shard, Extremespeed, Bullet Punch, the works, all do laughable damage to Jirachi, so it isn't easily revenged by the likes of Scizor. It isn't easily revenged by Magnezone after a couple CMs, even Jirachis biggest counter isn't much of a threat.
Jirachi shares a lot of common traits with Suicune. They're both CM sweepers, both hate being Tricked, (although Jirachi can hide behind a sub to avoid this) they both hate being Phazed, and they both DESPISE Perish Song Celebi. That's where Heatran comes in.
As with Suicune, Swampert is a bane against Sub-CM Jirachi, but the rest of my team (read, Roserade) can easily take out the mud fish before setting up.
Also, like with Suicune, Jirachi really appreciates Toxic Spike support. Having my opponents slowly worn down while I set up is just so nice. <3
Synergy:
Sub Revenger/Absorber:
Heatran @
Flash Fire
4 HP/252 Sp. Att/252 Spe
Naive/Timid
-Substitute
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power [Grass]/Explosion/Stealth Rock ?
Somehow, a SubTran usually makes it's way onto my team. It's just because it works so nicely. I know it looks a little weird, but I'll explain. You may be thinking, "Why would Ivysaur consider putting a Life Orb on something with Substitute?! It's already killing itself making subs!" Well, that extra power could be needed to take out threats in a pinch, or add power to explosion. Conversely, if I don't need the power and want more longevity, I'll put leftovers. Advice?
The EVs are simple, be as fast as possible, hit as hard as possible. If I run Explosion, I'll pick Naive, and maybe add some Attack EVs.
The lack of Toxic is because of T-Spikes, and it allows me to free up a spot for an extra attack or utility. Hidden Power seems like the best choice at the moment, to take care of those Bulky Waters and Grounds that Heatran lures, and the rest of my team hates so much. Explosion adds extra security against Blissey, and allows me to dent a threat in a pinch. But Stealth Rock seems like a decent option because I can't fit it in anywhere else in the team, and it's so necessary for Scizor to be able to revenge kill many threats like Salamence.
The other moves are obvious, Fire Blast for ridiculously powerful STAB, Earth Power for opposing Heatran and my best option against Bulky Waters if I don't carry Hidden Power. Substitute is the crux of this set, easing prediction, allowing me to absorb weak hits, protecting from status, and allowing me to get a hit in before fleeing counters.
Heatran acts as a lure for Bulky Grounds and waters that Latias can take out with ease. Heatran doesn't usually have trouble beating either one on one with HP Grass, and can stall for Toxic damage by repeatedly subbing up. Heatran also absorbs Fire attacks aimed at Roserade, Jirachi and Scizor, but has to be wary of ground. Roserade and Latias can take fighting attacks aimed at Heatran pretty well. Heatran also acts as a check agaist Celebi, who annoys my team to no end.
Heatran is sort of the "glue" holding this team together, along with Latias, both of them have a multitude of handy resistances and can play off of each others backs. They really help the team in many ways.
Synergy
Scarf Revenger:
Latias @
Levitate
4 HP/252 Sp. Att/252 Spe
Modest/Timid
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Trick
A very effective revenge killer with handy resistances, and an immunity to Ground that my team so desperately needed. Can efficiently outspeed Gyarados and Salamence, even after a DD, and revenge with Draco Meteor or Thunderbolt. She also acts as a check to Heatran without Dragon Pulse.
But Latias can do a lot more than just revenge things. With Trick, the crux of this set, she can mess up set up sweepers like Crocune and walls like Blissey. Also, can cripple Celebi, who likes to mess up Suicune with Leech Seed and Persish Song.
Draco Meteor is for a sort of "hit and run" powerful STAB, Surf checks Heatran, Infernape, and bulky grounds, Thunderbolt is for Gyarados and Bulky Water types. Trick, like I mentioned earlier, is to mess up Blissey switch ins or bulky walls/set up sweepers, and allows me to get rid of the scarf when I don't need it any more.
I'm having sort of a dilemma with the nature. Timid forces a speed tie with other Scarf Latias, but Modest allows me to hit a lot harder when I need it. Any input here would be totally appreciated.
With Heatran, Latias really holds the team together. They fit very well synergetically, (like all Steels and Dragons) and Jirachi fits well with Latias as well. They all play off of each others resistances. Ground attackes aimed at either Steels go to Latias, Heatran to absorb Fire and Ice, and Jirachi and Latias can both take Fighting attacks pretty well, etc. etc. They're like a match made in heaven. <3
Synergy:
...Extras!
Just cause I love you, Smogon community. <3
In this section, I'll include all those wonderful things that make an RMT better, like, "Team Building Process" and a wonderful, oh-so descriptive threat list. I put a lot of thought into this team, so I'd like you to be able to appreciate it better!
Team Building Process:
I started off wanting to center the team around Sub-CM Jirachi, an often forgotten threat. I needed something to take Fire and Ground attacks aimed at Jirachi, so I knew a water type would be handy. Now, there were SO many choices, like Gyarados, Swampert, the list goes on. I finally settled upon a great water tank from my ADV days, Suicune.
The team was looking kind of specially oriented, so I decided to add a big physical threat, everyone's favorite Choice Bander, Scizor!
Looking over my half team, I knew I needed a lead. This is usually where I struggle. I knew Scizor would appreciate SR, but Suicune and Jirachi would also appreciate Toxic Spikes. I was torn between Foretress and Roserade. After going over the pros and cons, I decided I wanted Roserade so I didn't add another 4x weakness to Fire.
Now, I was noticing a large weakness to Fire, especially if Suicune was taken out. I decided, why not add something that Absorbs Fire altogether? Out of all the Flash Fire Pokemon, only Heatran was viable in OU, so he was the obvious choice.
Now, the team was almost complete! I needed something to take ground hits, as 3/5 were weak to it! I also needed an efficient revenger. Hmm.. a ground immune revenger. There were quite a bit of choices, like Scarf Rotom, Gengar, or even Flygon.. but I decided on Scarf Latias.
The team was now complete! After about a week of playtesting, I got the sets I desired, and the team works pretty well. I'm pretty satisfied with the team at this point, but I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions!
The team was looking kind of specially oriented, so I decided to add a big physical threat, everyone's favorite Choice Bander, Scizor!
Looking over my half team, I knew I needed a lead. This is usually where I struggle. I knew Scizor would appreciate SR, but Suicune and Jirachi would also appreciate Toxic Spikes. I was torn between Foretress and Roserade. After going over the pros and cons, I decided I wanted Roserade so I didn't add another 4x weakness to Fire.
Now, I was noticing a large weakness to Fire, especially if Suicune was taken out. I decided, why not add something that Absorbs Fire altogether? Out of all the Flash Fire Pokemon, only Heatran was viable in OU, so he was the obvious choice.
Now, the team was almost complete! I needed something to take ground hits, as 3/5 were weak to it! I also needed an efficient revenger. Hmm.. a ground immune revenger. There were quite a bit of choices, like Scarf Rotom, Gengar, or even Flygon.. but I decided on Scarf Latias.
The team was now complete! After about a week of playtesting, I got the sets I desired, and the team works pretty well. I'm pretty satisfied with the team at this point, but I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions!
Conclusion:
This team has been working pretty well for me, but it's not without it's faults. Every team has problems, and I know this one probably has more than others. For instance, I rely quite heavily on Toxic Spikes as residual damage while setting up. Lack of Stealth Rock is sort of a hindrance as well. I'd really appreciate any help to help this team work out it's many problems. If you spot a large weakness, have a better team member, or any other suggestion, just say so. Thanks!
