OU stall without Blissey (WTF?!)

[Ontop]

Hello everyone and welcome to my most recent RMT. This time i decided to try out my luck on Stall, but really it isn't going very well. So far i've only reached a CRE of around 1380 (lol). Now let me show the team at a glance:

At a glance this might not look like a full out stall team with Tyranitar, but he has a defensive set. So the point of this team is a bit different than from many other stall teams. Here i try to get my pokemons surviving as long as possible, because through all parts of the game i wanna wall whatever that comes up, without thinking "Oh why did that guy die?!." Now let me present for you some stats of this team:

~*~ No pokemon are weak to SR ~*~
~*~ Resistans to every type ~*~
~*~ All 3 entry hazard ~*~
~*~ 3 Pokemons have healing moves ~*~

Leftovers

Impish nature
EV:|252HP|168Def|88SpDf|

Stealth rock
Slack off
Earthquake
Roar

Description
Hippowdon have been this teams lead ever since the beggining and it has never failed on it's job. Usually i can scout atleast 3 members of he's team which is great as this team (and other stall teams) rely on knowing you'r opponent. I have done some calcs on how much the most common OU lead(Azelf) does to me.

Fire blast 40% - 47.1%
Explosion 71.2% - 83.8%
Psychic 40% - 47.1%

As you see he can't OHKO me with any of he's moves meaning i am 100% sure to set up Stealth rock (unless he crits with Explosion). This EV spread were copied directly from Smogon because i really couldn't come up with a better one myself. When i made this lead i knew i wanted Slack off|Stealth rock|Roar, but when it came to a attacking move, there were a blistering fight between Ice fang and Earthquake. I knew Flying types and Levitaters would wall me if i went with Earthquake, but it has STAB and good coverage on those few pokemons who stay on the ground. Unfortunatly both Azelf and Aerodactyl resist it. But who cares i can just Roar em out'.

Light clay

Bold nature
EV:|252HP|120Def|132Spdf|

Light screen
Reflect
Will-o-wisp
Thunder bolt

Description
*My thoughts* "I need dual screens! Latias! So at first this were a Latias. All it did were dying and dying without doing any real job. So at the same time i needed to switch out Latias for another dual screener i needed a Spin blocker. Rotom-H! But why Rotom-H and not any other Rotom form? Well as this comes out early game, when they've maybe only seen the Hippowdon, they don't know that this is stall. So they'll think this is a scarf variant and switch to Tyranitar or Scizor as i A. Sets up Reflect that pwns both of em' or B. Will-o-wisps that cripples both of them.

This EV spread is pretty simple, maximize physicall bulk! Not even OU heaviest attackers like CBScizor, DDMence, DDGyara or SDLuke can come through this. So why are Dual screens that important for this team? Well it let's Forretress set up much easier which is on the road to stall!

Letfovers

Bold nature
EV:|252HP|252Def|

Wish
Surf
Protect
Roar

Description
The center of the team part 1 is here. This is just standard cleric/Wish a support with a personal twist. I don't really now what CRE this team would have without Veporeon? 1200? This guy makes life easier for Tyranitar and Forretress who can't heal themselvs. (noobs XD) Roar have caught people off-guard numerous times, when they think i have Toxic. I don't really now what to write. Everything, EVERTHING on this set are just self-explentary. Im ight consider changing Bold to Calm though.

Leftovers

Impish nature
EV:|252HP|252Spdf|
Rest
Roar
Crunch
Sleep talk

Description

Restalk are born to be good! With Sandstorm boosting he's Special defense he can wall very good. Add on this EV spread and raw offensive power and you have a monster. Oh and don't forget he can PHaze to ;D. Restalk and Roar were obvious for this set as it is a Restalk set but when it came to the attacking move i were not that sure. I made up a list of moves and choosed one with nice coverage
Crunch
Stone edge
Earthquake
Fire punch
Aqua tail
At first i were using Fire punch and Crunch which worked okay but not great. Earthquake and Crunch has pretty good synenrgy and good power so that were the combination i fell for. This were when i had a CurseTtar here.

This is like the only offensive part of this team, which makes him pretty important as i don't want to be realying on only Phazing. This can can also due to Sand stream kill Rain dance which otherwise can become annoying for this team.

Leftovers

Impish nature
EV:|252HP|252Df|

Drill peck
Roost
Spikes
Whirlwind

Description
Finally we have came to the flying airplane! Although i have to make this description rather short due to lack of time. To start of, why Drill peck? Well you remember i said this teams strategy were a bit to survive? Well even though great defenses and Roost, i will get taked down by constant attacking moves + recoil damage. So why are there Spikes on this, isn't Forretress you'r Entry hazards guy? Well yes but sometimes he just don't finish the job for some reason making this a moce switch in to continue the Spikes laying. If there are someone i should remove from the team it will problamy be this, because i don't feel like it's doing that much.

Leftovers

Impish nature
EV:|252HP|252Def|
Explosion
Rapid spin
Gyro ball
Toxic spikes

Description
Okay guys i have to make this Description very short. This is BTW the center of the team part 2. He just sets up Entry hazards all over the place like drugs and then go B00m. Impish nature to get very high defense as Forretress has 140 base def. So take 140 base Def max HP max SpDf, and you can wall OU. When i knew i wanted a set-upper that i could rely on i could problamy have went for the Froslass, but fprretress seemed like a more staple guy in this place. When you are looking on good counters to Forretress you directly see MysticGar(which is kinda dead now), Magnezone and Heatran. The only one of those that really bothers me is Magnezone because of he's frikkin' ability. Although i am not (reapeting) NOT gonna use shed shell. It's just dead weight as people don't use Magnezone that much anyways. Wow the description turned mid-long anyways.

Okay gtg now, hope you enjoyed reading this and taht you feel like rating;D


​

 

[Ontop]

Threat list
Red= I am gonna die
Green= Can be tricky
Black= No problem


Heracross - Skarmory

Latias - Tyranitar

Infernape - Set-up fodder for Rotom

Lucario - Skarmory can PHaze away

Scizor - Skarmory can PHaze away

Salamence - Rotom can set-up

Dragonite - Rotom can set-up

Gyarados - Rotom kills, Vappy walls

Heatran - Tyranitar

Kingadra - Skarmory can PHaze away

Gengar - Skarmory can PHaze away

Starmie - Rotom blocks spins and kills

Zapdos - Tyranitar can wear down

Blissey - Tyranitar

Suicune - Skarmory can PHaze away

Machamp - Skarmory can PHaze away. This can be tricky if i always get fusion-hax

Rotom - Tyranitar

Azelf - Tyranitar

Metagross - Skarmory can PHaze away

Jirachi - Tyranitar

Swampert - Skarmory can PHaze away

Celebi(i) - Tyranitar

Gliscor - Skarmory can PHaze away

Vaporeon - Rotom can cripple and kill

Tyranitar - Skarmory can PHaze away

Flygon - Skarmory can PHaze away, hoping they don't have the fire move. Rotom can cripple

Brellom - Skarmory can PHaze away, Skarmory OHKOs

Skarmory - Skarmory can PHaze away, Rotom can set-up, Ttar can set-up

Forretress - Skarmory can PHaze away, Rotom can set-up, Ttar can set-up

Weavile - Skarmory walls him

Electivire - Tyranitar

Mamoswine - Skarmory walls him

Jolteon - Different i guess

Porygon-z -

Tentacruel -

 

[eastamazonantidote]

I don't have much time but I'll put in something: VAPOREON NEEDS PROTECT. There was actually a pretty large debate a while back. Can't remember when. But the point is Vaporeon loses to so many threats without Protect. So many things 3HKO Vappy that it needs that healing turn. I would drop Hidden Power. Roar is incredibly useful in stall and surpasses any attacking move Vappy can use. Hidden Power: Electric should become Protect.

Gengar runs right through you. Zapdos gives you issues. Heatran is going to take out at least one poke before it dies. Salamence looks like it could be an problem. There are most likely other serious issues I'm not seeing at the moment. Unfortunately I don't know how to fix all these holes, but I'll do my best.

You need a dedicated special wall. Without changing your team dynamic, I recommend changing Tyranitar's set to Rest / Sleep Talk / Roar / Crunch with all EVs in SpDef and HP and a Careful nature. Curse is not as useful on TTar was one might assume. The speed drop hurts a lot and the boost is still not enough to withstand incoming Fighting attacks. You also need a status absorber. Tyranitar is a fantastic SleepShuffler and catches everyone off guard. Tyranitar is also extremely bulky and can still threaten many common switch-ins. You could use an attack over Roar (Brick Break, Low Kick, and Earthquake are probably the best options), but I have found this set to be so effective as a solid special wall that doesn't need Wish support to heal. Also, burns and poison mean nothing to this monster. This Tyranitar is my own invention and functions like a well-oiled machine.

With 2 pHazers, you can take Roar off Hippowdon. Put Ice Fang over Roar on the Hippo. Right now you die pretty solidly to a well-aimed Salamence, and Hippowdon can deal with that threat well enough. Stone Edge is not an option because of its accuracy. Gyarados is still handled by your team despite the fact that Vaporeon does not have an electric attack anymore.

Switch the EV spreads for Forretress and Skarmory and make Forretress Careful natured. Skarmory functions much better as a physical wall in stall. On balanced teams, Skarmory functions differently and thus receives tons of SpDef EVs. Stall is different and you need a backup physical wall. Forry is a utility defender of sorts and needs SpDef investment to be able to come in on Draco Meteors and Ice Beams. Forretress is hard pressed to find something it really walls nowadays, so put his resistances to use.

Replace Spikes on Forretress with Payback, Gyro Ball, Earthquake, or Pain Split. Spikes is unneeded and takes up valuable space on Forretress' moveslots. The above 4 attacks are all situational but very useful. If you need to answer Weavile and Mamoswine, Gyro Ball is your man (but chance your nature and IVs). Pain Split is very annoying but is difficult to use correctly on full stall. Earthquake his Magnezone and Heatran hard. Payback takes out spin blockers. In fact, I don't like Explosion on stall teams (particularly on the Rapid Spinner/entry layer), but that's your decision.

Give either Skarmory or Forretress the Shed Shell item. Pretty self-explanatory. You don't want to lose 2 pokemon to Magnezone.


Well, that's my 2 cents. I hope it helps. I tried not to change your team too much, but there were some things that I thought should be fixed. I'm sure some more knowledgeable people will show up and give you help with EV spreads and other technicalities. I play stall as often as possible and have had issues similar to what I see in your team.

 

[Ontop]

Okay Restalk Ttar fixed, Protect fixed, chenged EV spread on Skarmory fixed, Gyro ball on Forry fixed. Ice fang on Hippowdon not fixed. I really want to keep Roar on him. It just allows him to scout my opponent's whole team.

 

[jc104]

First of all, several of your Pokémon are missing 4 EVs. I think many of them need changing anyway.

Skarmory and Forretress is overkill. First of all, you do not need 2 spikes users. Secondly, they are both carrying leftovers, so your team gets destroyed by Magnezone. They are also both running SpDef sets, which is, again, unnecessary. Since you have nothing to take water-type moves if Vaporeon falls, I suggest replacing it with a water resist.

You probably want Brave Bird over Drill Peck, as with no attack investment, you need the power. Skarm can also roost off damage easily. The above poster did not make it clear either that if you use Gyro Ball on Forretress, you need 0 Ivs in speed and a Sassy nature. If you use Payback, which is good for hitting spin Blockers, you may as well use full Ivs and careful.

Rotom: First of all, since you are running Light Screen, I see no reason to neglect his Special Defence. I would recommend 252hp 120def 132 spDef Bold. Secondly, reflect + will-o-wisp seems like overkill, particularly with toxic spikes. I would go for Tbolt/Shadow ball/Screens. Also, i am not completely sure whether screens are of that much benefit to such a slow-paced team.

Since you already have SS in your team, why not try Curse Regirock over Curse Tyranitar? Also, I think you want a RestTalk set whether or not you keep curse (i.e Crunch/Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk is an option)

You also have a Lucario weakness if Hippowdon gets slightly weakened. +2 Close Combat OHKOes Skarmory (OK you know changed this to physically defensive, so a likely KO with SR), Forretress, Tyranitar and Vaporeon with Close Combat, and Rotom with Crunch. CC does up to 95% to Hippowdon. therefore I would suggest Scarf Rotom over your current set.

Sorry for not doing a proper rate. Good luck

 

[Ontop]

Thanks, jc. I'll change Rotoms EV spread now. I'm still not happy with the idéa of Brave bird on Skarmory. Although i'm not sure about Regirock seeing it has no Phazing.

 

[jc104]

Sorry. I didn't notice you had roar on your Ttar. It should normally have RestTalk, Crunch, Curse. The set that you changed to while I was writing is fine. Also, do you often find yourself swept by Lucario? Scarf Rotom would help.

 

[Ontop]

252/252 Skarmory should wall(Luke) him, and then PHaze away he's SD.

 

[jc104]

Here is the calc for +2 Close Combat: 84.4-99.7%. A likely KO with SR. Here is a recommended set for Scarf Rotom:

Rotom-H - leftovers
Timid
4hp 252spatk 252 speed

-Thunderbolt
-Overheat
-Shadow Ball/will-o-wisp
-Trick

This outruns Luke and OHKOs with Overheat (and is obviously immune to extemespeed). Will-O-wisp is an option if you are scared of being trapped by tyranitar. It is also a good secondary check to Bulky Gyarados in case Vaporeoon dies.

Roaring is aslo a generally bad idea with Luke, because it takes nothing from SR, so it just somes back in. I have also just realised that it can't really set up, so its not so much of a problem as I first thought.

Edit: Megan Fox's suggestions are probably the ones you should listen to.

 

[Ontop]

Thanks for calcs, man. So what should i do about it? Earlier i've just been Roaring out i think.

 

[Dûrion]

Hey, this is one of my first rates and I'm probably not very good at it.

So far I've noticed that you have 4 Physically defensive pokemon to 2 Specially defensive ones, a pokemon like Gengar, Zapdos or even Alakazam could quite easily rip through this team with there his Speed and Special Attack stats. Although you do have Rotom and Tyranitar that can deal with these two, Gengar is more likely to his Rotom hard with a STAB'd 80 base power Shadow Ball coming from a possible attack stat off a base Sp Atk stat of 394 is going to put Rotom in a world of hurt, especially considering yours does not carry a Shadow Ball of it's own. Gengar usually carries Focus Blast to deal with Dark types that think they can switch in and Pursuit him so Tyranitar could be greatly hurt and easily picked off by a faster Revenge Killer.

I've also noticed you can't really hurt Scizor, one of the Metagames most common pokemon that can easily set up and run through your team (also one of the pokes that is likely to Bullet Punch T-Tar), I suggest that you swap Skarmory or Forretress for a pokemon that can. Latias is a great lure for Scizor not expecting her to carry Hidden Power Fire on the set, although this also removes one of your Phazers you gain a more balanced team with 3 Physically Defensive and 3 Specially Defensive. Latias lures in Tyranitar though which can be a problem so you need to make sure that Tyranitar is out the way otherwise he might get the kill with Pursuit if you try to switch Latias out.

Lucario as some one else said also can quite easily destroy a fair amount of your team, especially if Hippowdon isn't a full health so I'd make sure you have a way to deal with him, something like the Scarf Rotom would do fairly well against him but this would probably turn your team to a more balanced team than a stall one.

I suggest that you do use Shed Shell on either Skarmory or Forretress if not both, you may not think Magnezone is used that much but he quite common in the OU Metagame because of his massive Sp Atk stat and ability to pretty much kill every Steel type in the game not carrying Shed Shell with ease.

Finally, in your threat list you seem to say that Skarmory can Phaze away quite a few pokemon, this doesn't really eliminate the threat they bring to your team though because they are still there waiting to be brought in, as I mentioned before, Scizor is a large threat to your team because you can't really hurt him that easily or stall him with Toxic Spikes thanks to his Steel typing.

Sorry if I've missed something that you have actually covered but I've missed.

 

[Ontop]

Thanks for the rate, Durion. Zaodis can't do a skwatt to Ttar, LOgar does 89.1% - 105% which is alot. Altough a Latias or Scarf Rotom-H would make this a more balanced team.

Scizoe do not hurt me at all. Actually he is set up bait for Skarmory, who then can PHaze him to death pretty easily. Okay i'll do Shed shell >> Leftovers on Forry and Skarm.

 

[Thorns]

this team needs blissey so special sweepers don't run over you, use the standard set over skarmory and give forry spikes over explosion. cmrachi gives you aids so you want to change rotom into a scarfer, use hippowdon's eq to break the sub and trick a scarf to it you don't really need dual screens considering how defensive you are already. infernape is also gay for your team, even with ds rotom since fire blast is a dick. maybe run latias who can also use wish over vaporeon

 

[rickheg]

Also, just a quick note, NO Azelf or Aero lead will ever let a Hippowdon set up Stealth Rock. They'd always Taunt, so you can't Roar them away either. You'd be forced to switch out to something else and try again later. And honestly, either one can start off the battle with a decent-sized dent in your team.

 

[Megan_Fox]

hi, first of all fortress + skarmory is absolutely unnecessary and really is as jc104 said, overkill. instead, it would be wise to merge skarmory and fortress together into this fortress set.

Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Payback
Rapid Spin

252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Attk Careful nature

Using this spread would not only allow you to setup on more sorts of things, but with screens support (that your team provides) it could take attacks much better on both sides of the spectrum while having payback for incoming rotoms who attempt to spinblock you and rapid spin for some spinning yourself. Should u need more health, you have vaporeon as wish support.

Without Skarmory you have several options to replace it but what seems good to me is a rest talk gyrados

248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Waterfall
~ Roar

While it may seem like a bad idea due to have Vaporeon as well, when paired with a scarf-tar and your rotom and hippo, this weakness is surely covered. pokemon like scarf rotom wouldnt have a chance against gyrados or vaporeon with ttar to absorb the t-bolt/trick. Gyrados is one of the best resttalkers out there and its resistances allow it to be better then T-Tar ever could. Plus Gyrados could phaze stuff like DDmence and other gyrados's that t-tar would pretty much be screwed against

Furthermore, i see pokemon like LO Starmie being a problem (T-Tar would get 2hkod despite its evs). In order to fix this, i would replace it for a scarf-tar

4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature

~ Stone Edge
~ Crunch
~ Pursuit
~ Earthquake / Superpower

This will help alleviate that sort of problem while also providing you with an additional Lucario counter (Hippo can sometimes gets pretty beat up as a lead and without it Lucario can sweep you).