ORAS PU Outsider

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Hello and thank you for checking out my RMT. At first glance this team probably looks abysmal since it has several highly outclassed Pokemon on it, but because of a few metagame quirks it's been working well for me. I love using unorthodox mons, even in PU, and I'm curious what the good competitive brains think of this. This is my first RMT.

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Ariados @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
- Sticky Web
- Megahorn

My usual lead against most teams is Ariados. As you can see from the preview, this is not a hyper offense sticky web team. Usually I'll take a look at team preview and decide if I need webs against the particular matchup (basically if they have anything that's going to outspeed Slaking or some niche cases) and go from there. Between megahorn and sucker punch, Ariados can very often land a KO or force a switch on the opponent's lead as it hits surprisingly hard. Keeping Ariados around at 1 hp after its sash is also useful thanks to sucker punch's utility and as fodder for Slaking's retaliate, as described later. Its 4x fighting resistance is important for this team as well.

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Bibarel @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 172 Def
Impish Nature
- Amnesia
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Quick Attack

This set is obviously pretty gimmicky, but with good prediction it's actually quite effective. Switch it in on resisted or non-stab physical moves and then predict your opponent's next move and boost accordingly. Most of the time that'll be Curse, but if the opponent has a strong SpA mon then use Amnesia because it's almost guaranteed to come out. This set works great against a lot of pokemon but is hard countered by Roselia and Gourgeist XL so eliminating them first is mandatory. The speed drop from Curse makes outright sweeps challenging, but the sheer bulk and power it gets with a few turns of setup will punch big holes in any team. As such, Bibarel tends to be more useful midgame than late, but a late-game Bibarel sweep is possible in some matchups.

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Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Signal Beam
- Psychic

Grumpig supports my team by absorbing the special hits the rest of my team can't take and removing status as my physical attackers tend to attract Will o' Wisp. Calm Mind and Signal Beam lets it beat Beheeyem and other Psychic types, and Psychic is for decent damage on unresisted Pokemon. Grumpig's goal isn't to be a hard counter to special attackers, just provide enough of a buffer that a Bidoof quick attack or Ariados sucker punch can take care of whatever is left when Grumpig goes down. This set is probably the one I'm least happy with, though, and I've experimented with a more support-ish set with Twave/taunt/reflect over CM/signal beam. Feedback would be much appreciated.

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Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 Def
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Toxic

Avalugg is a big linchpin for this team. The constant switching in and out of Slaking makes rapid spin support very important so Avalugg needs to be able to keep hazards at bay. It might seem strange to invest in a Defense stat that's so high already but Avalugg's SpD is so low that I decided it was better off avoiding all special hits and being extra physically bulky. Toxic is very handy to put a timer on opposing walls, and helps this team break through some threats it otherwise wouldn't be able to (such as opposing Avalugg). It's also great to hit LO users with Toxic as it really limits their use.

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Whiscash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam

This set may seem completely outclasses by Simipour and Floatzel, and on paper it may be so. However, this set has great synergy with Bibarel to eliminate its counters. Traditional Whiscash counters are the same as Bibarel counters, i.e. bulky grass, and sending it out against something a DD variant would set up on, such as Golem, virtually ensures that Roselia or Gourgeist will come in and take an Ice Beam. Gourgeist is easily 2HKOd, and assuming Web is up standard Roselia is 2HKOd 80% of the time. If these pokemon aren't a problem, firing off a hydro pump on the switch will deal good damage to most Whiscash counters. HP fire is used to hit grass types in sun for more damage. This pokemon is much more effective when Web is up, so ensuring that is important if Whiscash is necessary for a battle. Whiscash is a great pokemon to bring in early to get some early momentum from the surprise factor or saving to eliminate specific threats as described above.

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Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Retaliate
- Hammer Arm
- Pursuit
- Night Slash

This guy nets 3+ KOs per game, win or lose. Slaking is my revenge killer and he is so effective. I wanted to build around Slaking because I thought his stats were too good to be as underused as he is. Retaliate OHKOs a large percentage of the tier, including most if not all unresisted non-eviolite users. Basically, sack something off that's no longer necessary (1HP Ariados comes to mind) and fire off an epic hit with Slaking. Pursuit is useful for taking out weakened threats such as Roselia that could cause problems later, and the other moves are obligatory coverage. With good prediction, a 1 pokemon lead essentially means a win by allowing one of your pokemon to faint and then bringing in this monster for a KO. Switching afterwards is mandatory to preserve health and repeat the process so spin support from Avalugg is crucial.

Importable:

Ariados @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
- Sticky Web
- Megahorn

Bibarel @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 172 Def
Impish Nature
- Amnesia
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Quick Attack

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Reflect
- Psychic

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 Def
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Toxic

Whiscash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam

Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Retaliate
- Hammer Arm
- Pursuit
- Night Slash


I'd love to hear some feedback for this team. There are definitely some problems; fighting moves and powerful special attackers are two of the biggest. Fortunately, PU doesn't really have much of either of those things, especially the first outside of Machoke and Throh. Stealth rock would also be a huge help against sturdy/sash and sweeping but I'm not sure how to add it without ruining the synergy this team has. This team definitely works, and it's great fun to use some of these sets, but I'm curious if there are any improvements I could make without totally changing the character of the team. Thanks!
 
Hi, welcome to Smogon.

I know you said in your overview that you purposely built around gimmicks, so i will try to not to change the key parts for you n_n

Firstly, Slaking is completely outclassed by Stoutland, as Slaking provides a free turn for set up sweepers, which could lead to an easy sweep. Stoutland regains Slaking's power and has almost 0 things to take advantage of it, whereas in some battles you might not want to send Slaking out in fear of getting set up on. Stoutland can also weaken some of Bibarrel's checks, such as Gourgeist, with its strong STAB return

Next, I feel Stunfisk would suit your team better than Avalugg. Firstly, you lack a Stealth Rock user, which would be really nice in order to wear the opposing team down for Bibarrel. Stunfisk also provides a better check to Flying-types, which can outspeed the rest of your team and deal heavy damage to it, along Pawniard which can KO most of your team with Knock Off. Your team isn't too weak to hazards so no longer having Rapid Spin is alright.

I know Whiscash is a fun partner for Bibarrel, but Choice Scarf Monferno would be a very good addition to the team, as even with Sticky Webs, your team is quite slow, making you weak to set up sweepers such as Regice, and Monferno not only acts as a more reliable revenge killer, but also a more reliable Pawniard check, as at +2 it can KO pretty much all of your team.

Next, I think you should run a more offensive Grumpig set. A spread of 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 Spe Modest allows you to outspeed most of the relevant metagame (up to Zebstrika) in Sticky Web helping you check Pokemon such as Floatzel, while also giving you a decent amount of bulk to check what you want to, along with more firepower. I also think focus blast over Heal Bell would help you mess with Steel-types like Pawniard.

I know I should only suggest at most 3 Pokemon changes, but try Leavanny as a Sticky Web setter as it is faster helping vs Taunt users such as Misdreavus, and since aradios gets outsped by like everything, often you wont be able to get off a strong attack, unlike leavanny.

Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Facade
- Superpower
- Crunch

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Monferno @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- Mach Punch
- U-turn

Grumpig @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Signal Beam

Best of Luck!
 
Hi jgigas cool team idea you got there, I love teams based around weird sweepers.

Firstly, I agree with Anty on replacing Avalugg with Stunfisk. Stunfisk provides you the Stealth Rock setter you lacked, and really needed if you want to make Bibarel work and sweep the opposing team, and a check to Pawniard and Monferno, while it is still able to tank Flying-types such as Dodrio. Honestly your team suffers entry hazards quite a lot, especially Toxic Spikes, but with Stealth Rock + Sticky Web you should be able to pressure the opponent into Defogging them away, while Avalugg isn't that good itself against Toxic Spikes so wouldn't have helped you much there.

The only reason I could think about your choice of running Choice Specs Whiscash over Floatzel would be having an Electric-type immunity, but now that you also carry Stunfisk, you don't really have to worry about Electric-types a lot anymore, so replace Whiscash with Floatzel. Floatzel is just a straightforward update here, it hits for kind of the same damage, but it's way faster, and that will help your team a lot seeing as how it's slow paced and can't keep up with offensive threats even if running Sticky Webs. Thanks to its Water-type, Floatzel will also help you soft checking Water-types such as Floatzel itself and Simipour, with Hidden Power [Electric]. Also running Switcheroo in the 4th slot will be really beneficial for your team, losing Choice Specs isn't that relevant as you still have another wallbreaker, and you gain set up opportunities with Bibaral on opponents locked in unfavourable moves or the chance of spam Hydro Pump, further wearing down the opponent.

Then, change Grumpig set into a 2 Attacks + Heal Bell TWave set or 3 Attacks + Thunder Wave set. These sets, while still being able to be threatening offensively, will provide you a check to things such as Regice and other set up sweepers your team struggles with. I don't think you need Calm Mind at all, Grumpig will still be threatening and the rest of the team can still supply an high amount of damage to wear down foes and support Bibarel. You can choose between running Heal Bell or Shadow Ball here. Heal Bell helps supporting Bibarel against status users, but Floatzel can still switch into things such as Scald and Will-O-Wisp users, while Shadow Ball helps you dealing more damage to both Psychic- and Ghost-types, useful especially against the latter as Bibarel struggles with them.

Lastly, Slaking feels out of place here. I mean Slaking is already not that good itself, but it just doesn't fit Sticky Web strategy and your team structure. Because of its ability, he can be easily taken advantage of by Defog users to remove entry hazard and Sticky Web from the field, while it is also set up fodder for many set up sweeper, and your team already barely checks them so you would want to give them less possibilities to set up, that's not possible by running Slaking. My suggestion is to replace Slaking with Choice Band Monferno. I don't really think you need Choice Scarf Monferno here, as Choice Band is a straight upgrade regarding the threats you have to account for (mostly Regice and Pawniard), and Sticky Web + Thunder Wave Grumpig should be enough to slow down opposing Pokemon for Choice Band Monferno to get the job done. Even if not running Choice Scarf, you can check both Pawniard and Regice handily with Choice Band and Iron Fist boosted Mach Punch, even if Regice isn't 1HKO'd then it is in range to be KOd by Grumpig. Choice Band Monferno basically carries on what Slaking has been doing, which is dealing as much damage as possible and dealing with bulkier builds, while still being an effective revengekiller with Mach Punch, which also helps with squishy Water-types you struggle with such as Floatzel and Simipour. Also you want to run Thunder Punch on the 4th slot here to bait in Pelipper, an annoying Pokemon to your team, and 1HKO it.

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Floatzel @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Switcheroo

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball / Heal Bell

Monferno @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch
 
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Hi, jgigas - Anty and Raiza have already covered most of what I would've added, especially with the addition of a much needed SR setter in Stunfisk and an accompanying burn absorb / wallbreaker for Bibarel in either Stoutland or Monferno, so I think with those changes your team has been improved to the point it can be competitively viable while keeping the team as similar to your original post as possible.

There is one thing that I'd like to touch on that they haven't however. You still have options for Sticky Web, between Leavanny, which is the most viable setter of Sticky Web in our current meta hands down, and Ariados. If your heart is still set on using Ariados, I think its Toxic Spikes can actually benefit this team greatly for three reasons:

1) You already have Grumpig to remove grounded Poison types that would otherwise take Toxic Spikes off the field with its STAB Psychic
2) You've got strong Choiced users here which would appreciate walls being weakened by Toxic (Stoutland / Monferno)
3) You already have bulky setup sweepers like CM Grumpig / Curse Bibarel that can take advantage of Toxic Spikes to stall out more offensive teams

So,
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Poison Jab --> Toxic Spikes
Ariados @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Toxic Spikes
- Megahorn
- Sucker Punch

Next, I find double setup with Bibarel means you have to spend too many turns to do anything while your opponent isn't just sitting idly, and even after you've set up, you're still beaten by status. To help prevent such a scenario from occurring, I recommend using ChestoRest in tandem with Curse.

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Amnesia --> Rest
Leftovers --> Chesto Berry
Bibarel @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Quick Attack
- Rest

So, with all of these rates combined, your finished team would look something like this:
Ariados @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Toxic Spikes
- Megahorn
- Sucker Punch

Bibarel @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Quick Attack
- Rest

Stunfisk @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Floatzel @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Switcheroo

Grumpig @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 64 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Signal Beam / Shadow Ball

Monferno @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch
 
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Hi jgigas, and welcome to Smogon! I'm just going to drop some recommendations here in an effort to improve your team.

First, I'm going to suggest you change Avalugg --> Golem. Golem provides you with a Normal- and Flying-type check as Avalugg did, but it also provides you with much-needed Stealth Rock.

I'm also going to have to agree with the above rates and suggest you change Whiscash --> Monferno, but especially with the change to Golem, you are very weak to Pawniard, so I suggest you use AoA Eviolite Monferno. This also gives you a switch-in to Grass-type moves, which you lack at this point.

Your team is really slow at this point, and Bibarel isn't really helping, so I'm going to suggest a set that's really uncommon and kind of goes along with the them of unconventional sets. So I'll suggest you change Bibarel --> Bulk Up Floatzel, which I used briefly and it helps with the lack of Speed on your team.

Next I'm going to agree with some of the earlier rates and suggest you change SpDef Grumpig --> Offensive Grumpig, which benefits more from Sticky Web and is in my opinion, the better set in this meta.

Lastly, I'm going to again have to agree with everyone else and suggest you change Slaking --> Stoutland. Pretty simple, Stoutland completely outclasses Slaking.

tl;dr

Avalugg --> Golem:
Golem @ Weakness Policy | Sturdy
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Adamant
Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Sucker Punch

Whiscash --> Monferno:
Monferno @ Eviolite | Iron Fist
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Adamant
U-turn / Flare Blitz / Close Combat / Mach Punch

Bibarel --> Floatzel:
Floatzel @ Life Orb | Water Veil
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Jolly
Bulk Up / Waterfall / Ice Punch / Aqua Jet

Grumpig:
Grumpig @ Leftovers | Thick Fat
160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe | Modest
Psychic / Signal Beam / Focus Blast / Taunt

Slaking --> Stoutland:
Stoutland @ Choice Band | Scrappy
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Adamant
Return / Facade / Superpower / Pursuit or Crunch

Hope I helped :toast:
 
About your team, just an overview you have a sticky web user, but nothing to take advantage of it. I see no purpose in slowing down the opposing team, yet using mons that are extremely slow (like avalugg and CURSE bibarel). Since your team is extremely slow and bulky, replace sticky web with toxic spikes seems more productive. Next, you have a hazard lead, but no way to keep them on the field via spinblocker or defiant user.

I would start by replacing sticky web with toxic spikes as listed above.

If you choose to keep webs, my first change is Specs Whiscash > Specs Floatzel. Yes floatzel is a bit standard but its high speed lets u abuse webs by outspeeding zebstrika and slower scarfed mons.
Slaking >> Stoutland because reasons.

If you wish to change to spikes, I would replace slaking with audino to provide a wish passer for your team. I would change grumpig's set to:

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Evs: 248 HP / 164 SpA / 96 Spe OR 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature / Careful Nature
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Heal Bell
- Calm Mind / Thunder Wave

Audino @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Double-Edge
- Toxic / Heal Bell
 
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