Patience (Balanced OU)

SomeDrunkRockLee

SomeDrunkRockLee

The goal of this team was to take two pokemon who are extremely underrated and showcase their talents, since they work fairly well together. These two pokemon, Hazardless Deoxys-D and Support Mega-Scizor, gave me a core to start building the team around. So, with no further ado, let's get started.

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Assault Vest Landorus-Therian is a vastly underutilized set, albeit an effective one. Due to the high number of Lando-Therians running scarf, Assault Vest Lando-T makes the perfect candidate for an assault vest scarf bluff. He carries fairly good bulk thanks to intimidate + assault vest, keeps momentum with U-Turn, and, unlike the Landorus-Therian of last gen, actually provides decent utility with knock off.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Atk
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Knock Off
- U-Turn
- Defog

Support Mega-Scizor is a brilliant option to tank knock offs and provide a solid physical wall. He keeps the field clear of hazads that might worry other team members with defog and conserves momentum with U-Turn, and, as an added bonus, is able to handle Bisharp and Physical Thundurus (although mixed defiant Thundy with hidden power fire would be a loss... although that's exceedingly rare. M-Scizor doesn't appreciate thunderbolts either). He keeps pressure on the opponent with his wonderful knock offs.

Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 16 SDef / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Night Shade

This is the single most underrated pokemon in the entire meta, although it's gaining more recognition now thanks to DeoSharp and the fact that people are beginning to appreciate hazards again. However, I've been having a lot of success with abusing Deo-D's fast taunt combined with his amazing bulk, essentially enabling him to take on any pokemon without offensive investment at no detriment to himself. I'd really like to see him used in a heavy offense team, but that's not really my style (plus all the heavy offenses are using hazards Deo-D lol)

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Wil-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Provides Rotom-Zor, and works nicely with Lando, providing the ice resist. Mostly just acts as my Talonflame counter. I've been looking at switching his set to a trick scarf, since I have yet to actually use Pain Split in a battle. However, I like his defensive spread. Thoughts are very welcome here.

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Extremespeed

I threw this set on randomly since I'd encountered it and been swept by it on at least one occasion. I felt like I needed some decent offense to make the team more balanced, and so Dnite was my answer. He's felt a little bit lackluster nowadays, mostly because everyone expects weakness policy. Despite this, he's still very useful, especially since he carries the teams *only* priority.

Last Slot: This last slot has been thrown around a little bit. It started as a specially defensive Sub/Roost Zapdos, then modulated into Togekiss for heal bell. Togekiss was kind of set up fodder (uninvested air slash/aura sphere didn't do much) and so I've been experimenting with different clefable sets, because I do like having a cleric here, and also I've been exploring getting rocks into this last slot and seeing how that changes the team's dynamic. My most recent nailed down set was:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Roost
- Heal Bell

Cleric and dark type resist to aid Deo-D. Not much else. Looking to replace.

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
I really like this team. It looks both very unique and very solid.

Some Ideas:
-I personally think investing heavily in special defense on Scizor might be a good idea, as your team is somewhat lacking on the special defense side, especially if you get rid of Togekiss.I don't recommend this all that strongly, however.
-You can keep hazards off the field very easily with Deo-D's fast taunt and Scizor's reliable defog, so I think if you want Priority Talonflame would be a better replacement for Dragonite. It could be either banded or and SD set, but I think carrying two 4x weaknesses to ice on a team isn't the best idea, even with Rotom and Scizor to resist it.
-If you don't want Togekiss I would strongly recommend Umbreon. Wish/Protect/Foul Play/Heal Bell with maximum special defense seems like it would go wonderfully with this team, especially since you can cover its weaknesses fairly well. I highly recommend making this switch if Togekiss just isn't pulling its own weight. However, while it serves as a dark resist, it has extreme difficulty defeating dark types, as it only has foul play for damage. Mandibuzz could maybe work here as well, although having a third Pokemon with knock off would be redundant at this point, so the set would be along the lines of roost/toxic/foul play/filler.

Your team is pretty well built in the sense that I can't really think of any one Pokemon who would cause a problem alone. Mega Charizard Y seems like it could be a problem, but may not be able to get through Deo-D or Lando-I. Mega Gyardos could cause trouble depending on the set, but it can't hit everything since it will usually only have a combination of two moves out of earthquake, ice fang and bite. Lucario poses a similar problem, but similarly will not carry ice punch, crunch, and earthquake. Therefore you just have to be able to scout the sets to make sure you use the appropriate counter.

Overall, I think this is a very good team.
 
Hi there, I'm here to rate your team.

So, by the looks of it, this is generally a bulky offensive team that utilities a solid Volt turn core in the form of Landorus-T, Scizor, and Rotom-W, wearing down Dragonite's checks nicely, enabling it to sweep late game. The idea behind the team is pretty good, but I think you're maybe not using some Pokemon to their full potential, and you're missing some key factors that contribute to a great team. Hopefully my suggestions will help you improve this team, and hopefully give you more success on the ladder.

I think the first thing I noticed on this team is the lack of entry hazards, mainly Stealth Rocks. Despite Defog being extremely common, entry hazards still play a very important role in today's metagame, and Stealth Rock should be on 95% of teams or more. The fact that your team uses a Volt turn core is only adding to the reasons as to why you should be using Stealth Rocks, because as you force switches with the Volt turn combo, entry hazards really wear down your opponent's Pokemon really nicely. I think the second thing I noticed was that Deoxys-D spread. Your team thrives from momentum, as it looks like you abuse the Volt turn core until Dragonite can sweep, but Deoxys-D really slows down your team, and doesn't really provide your team with the support it needs. I think finally, you seem to be stuck on your final team slot, so I'll be helping you with that as well.

Okay, here are my suggestions.

1) Change your Deoxys-D spread to a hazards setting lead. Deoxys-D is a solid hazards setter, and hazards work really nicely with your team (as explained above). I think making this change will really allow your team to flourish nicely.

2) Change your Landorus-T to a Choice Scarf set. Choice Scarf Landorus-T is really great right now, as it allows you to check and revenge kill a bunch of threats in the metagame right now, like the Charizard forms and Talonflame / Pinsir.

3) Change Scizor's set to a more offensive set. If you choose to go with the hazards setting Deoxys-D, Defog Scizor really doesn't work too well with it, so an option could be to use a more offensive set.

4) Replace Togekiss with Bisharp. Bisharp as you know has great synergy with Deoxys-D, as it prevents Defog really nicely thanks to Defiant. It also softens up Dragonite's checks like Skarmory and Fairy types really nicely, so it also shares synergy with the rest of the team too.

5) Put 44 Speed EVs on Rotom-W. This is only a small suggestion, but it just allows you to out speed Defensive Landorus-T, and there's really no reason not to run 44 Speed EVs on Rotom-W.


Here are the sets

Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Magic Coat

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Scizor (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Atk / 108 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Bisharp (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Well, there's my rate. Hopefully I helped you out in some way, and good luck with the team n_n
 
Baconman said:
I really like this team. It looks both very unique and very solid.

Some Ideas:
-I personally think investing heavily in special defense on Scizor might be a good idea, as your team is somewhat lacking on the special defense side, especially if you get rid of Togekiss.I don't recommend this all that strongly, however.
-You can keep hazards off the field very easily with Deo-D's fast taunt and Scizor's reliable defog, so I think if you want Priority Talonflame would be a better replacement for Dragonite. It could be either banded or and SD set, but I think carrying two 4x weaknesses to ice on a team isn't the best idea, even with Rotom and Scizor to resist it.
-If you don't want Togekiss I would strongly recommend Umbreon. Wish/Protect/Foul Play/Heal Bell with maximum special defense seems like it would go wonderfully with this team, especially since you can cover its weaknesses fairly well. I highly recommend making this switch if Togekiss just isn't pulling its own weight. However, while it serves as a dark resist, it has extreme difficulty defeating dark types, as it only has foul play for damage. Mandibuzz could maybe work here as well, although having a third Pokemon with knock off would be redundant at this point, so the set would be along the lines of roost/toxic/foul play/filler.

Your team is pretty well built in the sense that I can't really think of any one Pokemon who would cause a problem alone. Mega Charizard Y seems like it could be a problem, but may not be able to get through Deo-D or Lando-I. Mega Gyardos could cause trouble depending on the set, but it can't hit everything since it will usually only have a combination of two moves out of earthquake, ice fang and bite. Lucario poses a similar problem, but similarly will not carry ice punch, crunch, and earthquake. Therefore you just have to be able to scout the sets to make sure you use the appropriate counter.

Overall, I think this is a very good team.
Click to expand...

To be honest, even with my defensive investment, I still have more trouble keeping my physical walls healthy rather than walling special attackers. Part of this is the fact that, despite his defensive stats being balanced on the surface Deoxys-D can handle the entire special metagame practically by himself without being significantly worn down (especially since this meta is extremely physically dominated). There are very few Dark type special attackers and mixed aegislash is handled by Landorus-T. Gengar represents the biggest problem, but it can be dealt with my Lando-T or Rotom-W if need be, and he's frankly not that common. Deo-D can sponge pretty much any non STAB supereffective special attack easily, so I haven't found him needing more special support so much.

I'm definitely interested in the Talonflame, although I will admit this team sometimes has trouble breaking through Rotom-W, so it might be a bit iffy. In this meta I haven't really been too thrilled with any Choice mons so far, so I think I'll try the swords dance set first. Definitely going to give this a whirl though.

I tend to find Umbreon to mostly be set up fodder, and Mandibuzz without Defog seems a little underwhelming. While some more special defensive presence would aid the team, I think something more offensive might work better in this slot. I'm quite tempted to try Assault Vest Conkeldurr or something here, but I'm not quite sure what I would fill in for the cleric support, which isn't being particularly well utilized.

ShootingStarmie said:
Hi there, I'm here to rate your team.

So, by the looks of it, this is generally a bulky offensive team that utilities a solid Volt turn core in the form of Landorus-T, Scizor, and Rotom-W, wearing down Dragonite's checks nicely, enabling it to sweep late game. The idea behind the team is pretty good, but I think you're maybe not using some Pokemon to their full potential, and you're missing some key factors that contribute to a great team. Hopefully my suggestions will help you improve this team, and hopefully give you more success on the ladder.

I think the first thing I noticed on this team is the lack of entry hazards, mainly Stealth Rocks. Despite Defog being extremely common, entry hazards still play a very important role in today's metagame, and Stealth Rock should be on 95% of teams or more. The fact that your team uses a Volt turn core is only adding to the reasons as to why you should be using Stealth Rocks, because as you force switches with the Volt turn combo, entry hazards really wear down your opponent's Pokemon really nicely. I think the second thing I noticed was that Deoxys-D spread. Your team thrives from momentum, as it looks like you abuse the Volt turn core until Dragonite can sweep, but Deoxys-D really slows down your team, and doesn't really provide your team with the support it needs. I think finally, you seem to be stuck on your final team slot, so I'll be helping you with that as well.

Okay, here are my suggestions.

1) Change your Deoxys-D spread to a hazards setting lead. Deoxys-D is a solid hazards setter, and hazards work really nicely with your team (as explained above). I think making this change will really allow your team to flourish nicely.

2) Change your Landorus-T to a Choice Scarf set. Choice Scarf Landorus-T is really great right now, as it allows you to check and revenge kill a bunch of threats in the metagame right now, like the Charizard forms and Talonflame / Pinsir.

3) Change Scizor's set to a more offensive set. If you choose to go with the hazards setting Deoxys-D, Defog Scizor really doesn't work too well with it, so an option could be to use a more offensive set.

4) Replace Togekiss with Bisharp. Bisharp as you know has great synergy with Deoxys-D, as it prevents Defog really nicely thanks to Defiant. It also softens up Dragonite's checks like Skarmory and Fairy types really nicely, so it also shares synergy with the rest of the team too.

5) Put 44 Speed EVs on Rotom-W. This is only a small suggestion, but it just allows you to out speed Defensive Landorus-T, and there's really no reason not to run 44 Speed EVs on Rotom-W.


Here are the sets

Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Magic Coat

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Scizor (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Atk / 108 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Bisharp (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Well, there's my rate. Hopefully I helped you out in some way, and good luck with the team n_n
Click to expand...

All right. The first thing is that I agree with at least getting stealth rocks in here, but I think hazards Deo-D, specifically suicide lead Deo-D is the wrong way to do it. Deoxys-D provides a solid pivot who gives virtually no momentum to the opponent while being able to beat at least 80% of the meta 1v1. To change to suicide lead Deo-D would dismantle the team, giving it virtually no way to check any sort of special offense and alleviating his ability to break down walls like Gliscor, which is crucial for the success of the team.

Landorus-Therian essentially already does afford me all the benefits of the scarf set, while still maintaining the utility of switching moves and acting as a lure. From my post in creative/underrated sets:
The Lando Calrissian Bluff
Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Knock Off

As far as I could tell, Lando got two major boosts coming into X and Y. The first was Assault Vest; already with solid physical bulk thanks to intimidate, Landorus could also complement its special bulk with an assault vest, while at the same time bluffing a choice set. The first thing that goes into most players heads when they see a Lando sans leftovers is that it's a scarfer, which can really help maintain a nice bluff. The second major bonus that Lando got was Knock Off. With the new Knock Off buff, there's no reason *not* to use the move on him; it basically suits him perfectly. Not only does he really benefit from knocking items off his counters, like Skarmory's leftovers, Gliscor's Toxic Orb, or Dragonite's weakness policy, but he can also check most justified users hoping to switch in; he can tank attacks from (non band) Terrakion, even after the justified boost, and KO back with Earthquake.

Lando's improved bulk with intimidate + assault vest allows him to work as a crucial defensive pivot while also pressuring the opponent into thinking that you're running a choice set, making this Landorus-Therian a valuable contribution to bulky offense and voltturn, the two most dominant playstyles so far in X and Y.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that quite stresses the scarf bluff enough. The point is that you play Lando-T as a scarfer. No opponent is going to be setting up their Pinsir with a likely scarfed Lando (once they don't see Leftovers) running around.

Defog still works alongside stealth rocks, which I'll get to in a moment, and scizor is the most reliable defogger in the current meta. To be perfectly honest, I find any scizor that isn't running it's support set to be better off as a non-mega; the added defense is M-Scizor's greatest perk, and in a metagame where it's priority is usually either too weak or too slow to be of note, an offensive set designed to accumulate boosts doesn't give it any real ability to aid the team.

Bisharp is an interesting suggestion, and one I've been considering, although I've been looking more at an assault vest Bisharp with Pursuit. I honestly find the swords dancing set both unreliable and underwhelming. The biggest problem I have with Bisharp is that this is the slot that I'd be interested in putting rocks in, and I really appreciate cleric support.

Noted on the Rotom-W. Consider it done.
 
UPDATE:
I laddered some today, tried the following:
- Swords Dance Talonflame > Dragonite:
I found it a bit underwhelming, but I also never managed to get a swords dance boost up because of its frailty. I'm going to try out the banded version, since I think it will fit how I was playing Talonflame a bit better, so we'll experiment with that.

I also occasionally missed having Dragonite's extra bulk and ability to live virtually any first hit with Multiscale, which is often a saving grace. Dragonite's also good at discouraging people from targeting his weaknesses thanks to the growing popularity of him as a Weakness Policy abuser.

- Bisharp (a few variants, including your swords dance variant):
Admittedly, I didn't have any hazards (except when I was trying a support Bisharp set with Rocks) but so far I've found it underwhelming. As I mentioned above, I'm rather against turning Deo into a suicide lead, but I'd really like to get rocks from somewhere else.

- Rotom-W > Scarf, still keeping a defensive ev spread (although 44 EVs to speed, as noted) and dropping Pain Split for trick:
At times I wished I had gone for a more offensive spread, and at times I wished I just didn't have the scarf. It did work well occasionally, but it wasn't exorbitantly more competent than it was before.


THINGS I'M HOPING TO TRY SOON:
- Banded Talonflame has a lot of promise, definitely looking to try it out soon.

- Possibly an Assault Vest Conkeldurr in the last slot, because with Bisharp in that slot I was having some trouble with Greninja (barely manages to snag a 2HKO with Life Orb dark pulse on Deo-D).
 
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