Permission To Rape (RMT)

[you may skip this if you want]

I don't suppose a lengthy introduction is needed; however, I am probably a new name/face to most of the frequenters here so I'll at least give a short summary of where I've been and what I've seen with regards to Pokémon in its competitive history. I started playing competitively online when I was 12 at the dawn of the GSC era, though I had discussed Pokémon at length on a forum called DMGIce before that generation's release (went by the tag PokémonMaster151, obviously an elite player). I then made an account on pokemasters.net as PokémonMaster251, again establishing my dominance over the rest of the competitive community (right?). I endured the archaic battle system of IRC scripts for quite some time, probably before the creation of Smogon as an entity (though I have no memory of the origins of Smogon). Can't say in hindsight that I was any better than garbage, though. I took a vacation from the scene a couple of years later and upon my return, RSE had been newly established, with an early release of Netbattle, which undoubtedly surged new life into an almost cult-like competitive gaming community, and also led me to Smogon for my first time. I would say that the discovery of this site revealed to me the true competitive style of the game, and I played RSE Netbattle for a while, showing some friends the program and playing for a few months. Can't say I got especially good either, but I made a few decent teams and understood the basics. However, that's not even where I consider myself in D/P. I gently dabbled in team building for D/P upon the game's first release, but that was before a comprehensive metagame was established, there hadn't been time for many trends to develop, shoddybattle wasn't discovered yet, and most of the metagame evolved slowly through Nintendo's WFC as Competitor slowly slouched along. Playing against other people, sharking my own Pokémon because I'm lazy, etc just wasn't the same, and as my interest waned I played D/P less and less. Shoddybattle was still in beta, the new site hadn't been completely restructured and there definitely was no extensive strategy index for the D/P metagame, and I didn't feel like waiting, so eventually I just ceased the study altogether in the summer of 07. But now that I've had some renewed interest due to meeting a friend who enjoys playing D/P, I decided to see how things have changed; sure enough, the scene has rapidly progressed, and everything I wanted to exist is here.

However, I'm very unprepared for this metagame and I know I can't just make Pokémon with the ideas of the past and expect myself to exceed with any more than a modicum of success, so I decided to take a different approach to creating a team. I discovered the Shoddy Battle Server Statistics, and to my delight, the top threats have been reported, as well as the top lead Pokémon. So I decided to start there.

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@ Focus Sash
((Naive)) Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Att / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Explosion
- Flamethrower

Smogon's statistics show Azelf being in the top 20 of Pokemon used for the past six months - however, what's more important is that Azelf is ranked the #1 most used lead. This is astonishing considering that Azelf has never even been in the top 10, and that a good number of the contenders for the top 10 have also been used as fairly common leads. This tells me that Azelf's primary and most effective function is to be a lead, and obviously a very good one, and that's why I decided to start here. I surmise that, based on my own understanding, Stealth Rock is an important facet of D/P's metagame, so I am going to make the best use of it with my lead posing an immediate threat of laying them down. I chose the Azelf that is supposed to beat the other leads, further explaining why Azelf rocks so much as a starter. However, I was still unsure about who to add, so I decided to return to the statistics one more time. My next Pokemon came straight from the top 5 threats in today's metagame - and for the past four months straight, it's never scored below 2nd place.

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@ Choice Scarf
((Rash)) Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 Att / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- HP Ice

Seems like as good of a choice as any to toss into my team, it's definitely discussed a LOT in pretty much all of the strategy pages so I'm guessing it's the tip of top tier OU. Upon adding him, I reasoned that I can't go wrong with choosing any two good Pokemon, even if they don't necessarily have much synergy together. However, after choosing this one I must consider my team's weaknesses as well as threat coverage for the remaining four. I wanted HP Ice because Salamence had a consistent 4-month-in-a-row top 3 usage rating, and from what I remember about Salamence from RSE, it's probably one of the most pervasive threats in the metagame for D/P as well, top 5 if not even higher. I must have sufficient coverage for Salamence. My next choice came as a result of looking at my first two choices and realizing that I have a weakness to bulky waters...

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@ Life Orb
((Modest)) Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 Att / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Energy Ball
Ice Beam
Surf
Focus Punch

Going from my previous logic, I wanted an effective counter to bulky waters, and being a general threat in its own right is something that it seems most Pokemon need to be; however, this set lets me still have some freedom and I'm not going to be relying on him as a sweeper necessarily. I had some choices, such as whether to use Grass Knot or Rain Dance. I don't want Rain Dance messing up Azelf or especially Heatran, and with Stealth Rock support from Azelf I should be able to 2HKO bulky Gyarados, so I chose Energy Ball. Did I make the right choice with Ludicolo? He seems like an oddball for sure, but I think it fits nicely with two special sweepers that use Flamethrower. So, in need of a fourth Pokemon, I looked to the physical side of the metagame, an aspect my team completely lacks thus far:

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@ Life Orb
((Adamant)) Ability: Technician
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Att / 224 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- X-Scissor

The number one threat for two months in a row, #2 in October, and still hit top10 in September... his popularity seems to have surged right around the time that Garchomp was banned. I was wondering if there was any connection? Also, right around the time Scizor's popularity increased, Heatran rose from being somewhere in the top10 to #2 or #1 (tying only with Scizor), so this has to say something about Scizor's threat level. Seems like out of the Pokemon I've chosen, this slot in my team is the most malleable, however I do want to try Scizor out for a bit and see how he does. As for who I chose next, I still don't have a reliable counter to dragons, and I need something sturdy that can hold my team together against a lot of things. So I decided on-

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@ Leftovers
((Bold)) Ability: Trace
Evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Thunder Wave

Porygon2 seems amazing on paper. He has the ability to handle Gyara/Sally/Heatran, stands alone as a capable BoltBeamer, and isn't going to be fainted by just anything. I'm still not sure if he's the best choice, but I need a thorough counter to dragons. It's possible that I might rather have someone who can still handle dragons who also gets STAB on Thunderbolt, but given that Porygon2 can handily switch-in on Heatran he seems needed for my team, which has a pretty big Heatran weakness so far (though my Heatran can beat out other Heatran on revenge kills). My last choice is a consistent staple Pokemon; almost always landing among the top10 and has an integral role in all of the metagames it's ever been involved in:

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@ Leftovers
((Calm)) Ability: Natural Cure
Evs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

I determined that Porygon2 is a decent physical wall with his ability to Trace away Intimidaters and his fair amount of Defense EV's (although he has a Fighting weakness), but my ability to withstand special hits is lacking. That's where Blissey comes in, obviously. Most importantly, ChoiceSpecsMence will absolutely rape my whole team if I don't have a reliable special wall, since Porygon2 is really only equipped to handle physical variants, and Blissey suits this role beautifully. n I chose Thunderbolt in case Gyarados switches in and Porygon2 isn't around for some reason, and finally, Wish support is like water to a team like mine with multiple Life Orbs.

What do you think of my approach? Is it logical to look at the server statistics? Do I need more physical threats? I think I did an okay job, but feel free to rip into my team as much as physically possible.
 
A quick remark regarding to your final question: The server statistics represent something. Like you said with Scizor, Heatran's surge shows the threat Scizor is. But keep in mind that the more "standard" your team is, the more likely it is people will be experienced in how to deal with it. It's liek SkarmBliss, although it's like indestructible on paper, it's so common-place most people carry half a dozen ways to disable it, and can do it with their eyes closed. Just something to think about.
Maybe i'll come back later and actually rate the team XD
 
Ok this team doesn't look half bad. I don't see much synergy within the team, but other than that it looks like it's built around a fine structure. The biggest problem I notice is that you're seriously lacking offense from the physical side being that Scizor is your main physical attacker, and other than that you only have Explosion on Azelf and Focus Punch on Ludicolo which doesn't give you much to work with. I'll get back to that later. All it needs is some tweaking in certain places and it'll be good to go.

First off on Azelf you're really going to want to run Fire Blast > Flamthrower because it's extra helpful against lead Bronzong and the like since Fire Blast 2HKO's Bronzong whereas Flamethrower only 3HKO's it.

On Heatran I want to change the spread up a little because you might have a few issues revenge killing certain Pokemon speed wise so let me get along with the changes:

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: Same EV spread
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion
~ Hidden Power Ice

Ok there aren't any big changes, just some slight ones. I put Fire Blast over Flamethrower in the first slot for an all out STAB attack and don't worry so much about the accuracy since it isn't a big deal. Also changed to a Naive nature so you can outspeed Adamant Gyarados after a DD along with 130 base speed Pokemon that can be a problem if you were slower.

Alright for Ludicolo I just want to take him out entirely and replace him with Empleon so you can have a speedier threat along with playing the role of countering bulky Waters not named Tentacruel:

Empoleon @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
~ Agility
~ Ice Beam
~ Grass Knot
~ Surf / Hydro Pump

Unlike Ludicolo you don't need to set up Rain Dance to get faster thanks to Agility. This set just hits hard in general. Grass Knot is there for those annoying Waters and combined with Ice Beam you'll have great coverage barring Fire and Steel Pokemon (Read: Heatran) of whom are dealt with by the latter STAB Water attacks. The last slot depends on if you prefer reliable accuracy with Surf or if you want to hit noticeably harder with Hydro Pump, your choice. If you manage to activate Torrent you'll be hitting with deadly force even if you preferred running Surf in that situation.

Moving along with Scizor there doesn't actually seem to be anything that comes to my attention as problematic although running U-Turn > X-Scissor is an option as it allows you to scout for threats. Another possibility is dropping Life Orb for a Choice Band which will make your attacks a bit more devastating if you're not against being locked into attacks.

Getting back to the main problem I stated which was your lack in offense I wanted to give your team a reliable physical attacker. As such, I want you to drop Porygon2 for Salamence which will prove to be useful against Gyarados and Heatran along with other Dragons of which you said you needed a counter to:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Blast / Stone Edge

The deadliest force you get to work with here is STAB Outrages. You got a few options to work with on this set. If you decide to use Fire Blast over Stone Edge, then the set is fine as is, but if you want to run Stone Edge instead use an Adamant nature and use the following EV spread: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe. Fire Blast is there so you can hit Bronzong and Skarmory of which you couldn't other wise hit and Stone Edge is great against Gyarados. It really depends on what you fear more in that situation. DD boosted Stone Edges actually hurt Skarmory for pretty good damage anyways.

Lastly on Blissey I can understand you running Thunderbolt to deal with Gyarados since it can be a problem to deal with but you normally wouldn't keep Blissey in against Gyarados anyways so I oppose running Thunderbolt. IMHO, Ice Beam would be the better option since it effectively deals with Specs Mence which you said gave your team a lot of problems. It's really doesn't matter too much so I'll leave that decision up to you.

Good luck with your team. =)
 
Thank you for running 224 Speed EV's on Scizor to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar.

That's just plain win.

Also, you have 3 fighting weaknesses and only one resist, so i would replace your Ludicolo with either a SubDDBounce Gyarados, a Bulky MixNite, or a MixMence with Defense EVs.

Dark/Fighting tears this team apart. Once Azelf is out of the way, i can see Restalk Machamp being a pain.

You could also put a SubTox Thunderbolt and Heat Wave Zapdos over Heatran for another Fighting and Ground resist.
 
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So after making the suggested changes, I've had a great deal more success for the most part, however I've noticed that it has one particular glaring weakness as of right now: CMCune. Ludicolo used to be able to stop him with STABbed Energy Balls, but without that kind of raw initial power CMCune is able to set up on Blissey, Azelf, and Empoleon, scares off Heatran with Surf and Salamence with Ice Beam, and 2HKO's Scizor with Surf. So, I feel like getting rid of Empoleon will allow me to put a dent into CMCune, as long as I maintain my ability to handle bulky waters. Here are a few that I've thought of:

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@ Expert Belt
((Adamant)) Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake

Standard Electivire was my first thought, which would be a great choice to handle CMCune, though Swampert returns as a threat to which I have no longer have a viable alternative. Bulky Gyarados also might be a problem, and I can't exactly rely on Salamence to Intimidate him every time.

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@ Leftovers
((Bold)) Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpA
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Fake Tears
- Hidden Power Electric

I originally discarded the idea of Vaporeon because it seems very similar in function to Blissey, but upon a second glance, Vaporeon would be able to handle CMCune even after he sets up with Fake Tears, which also forces a lot of switches and complements the other three special moves very well, scaring away a lot of otherwise bulkier water types without attempting to engage in a stall war. I already have Wish support and Toxic stall thanks to Blissey, which is why I wanted to switch it up a bit, however the Choice Specs set isn't desirable because I don't want to be locked into HP Electric on a switch to a stat-upping dragon save Gyarados, which would allow them time to set up and I admittedly don't have a different Pokemon with Ice Beam that also isn't afraid of said dragons. When I first made this set, I contemplated the possible threat of Swampert to my team, but I reasoned that Swampert wouldn't enjoy staying in vs STAB'bed Surfs with the threat of Fake Tears sharply reducing his ability to tank the move, and I could switch to Vaporeon whenever a Swampert (or other waters even) try to Surf my Heatran, adding to my Vaporeon's longevity.

If neither of these choices are good replacements for Empoleon let me know; also, keep in mind that my team's current set-up, especially Heatran, is just asking bulky waters like Swampert to switch in on me, and I need something to keep them at bay.
 
Vappy is a more suitable pick, but won't do much with HP Electric. One of the Rotom forms can help with the Offensive Cune weak. Mowertom probably works best, since he has Leaf Storm.

Rotom also helps out in a big way because you lack a status absorber. T-bolt or Discharge/Leaf Storm/RestTalk with Lefties can go>> Empoleon.
 
I'm missing a lot of information about Rotom's other forms. Is this a Platinum-specific thing? I can't find any information about them in the Smogondex, and Serebii.net has less information than I would like.

But, I dunno, assuming Vaporeon can switch in on a Calm Mind, it takes one Fake Tears to neutralize the advantage in Special Defense, another Fake Tears puts him in position to be 2HKO'ed by HP Electric. Keep in mind that most Suicune will not stay in versus a Vaporeon switch-in anyway, although I see lategame CMCune Roaring might become a problem. If I were to use Toxic on CMCune with Blissey, I could possibly force him to Rest, which would take care of all CM forms save the Resttalk one, which Vaporeon already handles.

One final thought, do you think I could actually use CMCune in this spot with Surf, CM, Roar, and HP Electric? It basically counters itself, and I could run a -Speed nature to beat out other Suicune roars.

EDIT: Note that this Vaporeon has already proven itself to me in a few battles, OHKO'ing Gyarados in one battle, and overall just simply forcing switches and threatening everything with low health with Surf, especially if they switched into a Fake Tears save for a special wall like Blissey or something, in which case I have the option of Fake Tearing a couple more times to dent them with STABbed Surfs or my other two Special Attackers.
 
I've been experimenting on Shoddybattle with this current team, and I've realized a few things:

Scizor, because of how good he is and how often he is used, never gets time to set up with Swords Dance now-a-days. Once I'm in, they're going to their Scizor counter no matter what, so Swords Dance Scizor isn't very viable against good opponents IMO, it's best for a late game sweep if you've taken out their Scizor counter(s), but doesn't hold much weight on its own. The fact that I already have another stat boosting sweeper has convinced me that I should have some other type of attacking force in his slot, or a different form of Scizor if nothing else.

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@ Life Orb
((Adamant)) Ability: Technician
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

U-turn is an amazing move, letting me get one-up on a Pokemon they want to switch in to counter him while also potentially doing a good amount of damage. This set is much better given the speed at which people move to their Scizor counter, often times Heatran, and is actually much better at lategame sweeps when he can prevent faster, low HP pokemon from doing any damage at all thanks to Bullet Punch. Superpower and Pursuit are self-explanatory, but I feel Superpower may be overdoing it on the raw physical force side, not sure yet.

So, realizing that I do have a Suicune weak, I have decided to make some adjustments to my roster... firstly removing Blissey, because she's simply set up fodder for Suicune and similar Pokemon, and giving the role of wishpasser to Vaporeon, who is arguably better at it because of its ability to pack a punch (meaning NOT simply set up fodder):

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@ Leftovers
((Bold)) Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpA
- Baton Pass
- Surf
- Wish
- Ice Beam

Replacing Blissey. However, I still have an extra slot in my roster, because I already had a Vaporeon, just changed the moveset. This set wasn't designed to handle CMCune exactly, rather just to have a reliable sturdy Ice Beamer. The next Pokemon is the CMCune counter:

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@ Light Clay
((Timid)) Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Light Screen
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Grass

This is going to handle CMCune. Light Screen, plus decent defenses, will allow me to wear him down before he can really set-up, however I'm not even quite sure if it's enough. I may replace HP Grass with either Charge Beam or Psych Up, although Rain Dance + Thunder is a possibility. I haven't been able to find any real competitive information about Rotom, but I really love Rotom so far :).

Is my Rotom set good? Could my other sets use adjustment? I was thinking about packing U-turn on Azelf instead of the fire move, as I love scouting and Azelf's high speed gives it a pretty good scout, everyone else expects a fire move anyway. Plus if they try to bait me into exploding by switching to a Steel or Ghost, I can just U-turn first and move in with my Heatran/Rotom.
 
I personally love Vaporeon, he really helps my team get out of all sorts of tough spots. Anyway I would suggest you use a Zapdos, Its got a nice set of immunities, is bulky as hell, but also can counter alot of pokemon.

Something like:
Zapdos@ Leftovers
Timid nature
252 Hp / 220 Def / 36 Speed
Roost
Roar / Hidden power grass
Thunderbolt
Heatwave


That or swamp out Roar/Hidden power grass for Sleep talk, switch the Def Ev's over to special def and use it as a status absorber.

While it's not as offensive as the rest of your team, it works wonders on Skarmory/Metagross/suicune/Scizor/fortress, even without a choice item or life orb. it's beefyness gives it lots of chances to switch in and roar lets youphase out opposing suicune/Ninjask/umbreon/snorlax and I find that its a overall incredibly useful pokemon, although I could be wrong so someone correct me if I am. If you opt for Hidden power grass, swampert and rhyperior OHKO'd . :) I would switch Empoleon out for this guy.
 
Just a little nitpick here, but you should replace Discharge on Porygon2 with thunderbolt. It is more powerful and considering you are already running thunder wave, you won't mind the reduced paralysis chance.
 
Enkidu: Who would you suggest Zapdos takes the place of? My Rotom? I'll consider it, however right now my Rotom can block Rapid Spin and switch in on an exploder or something while setting up Light Screen, which although Zapdos can use, I feel that Rotom gets more opportunities for a free turn due to his three immunities, and his semi-bulkyness allows him to use Light Screen and stay in on a lot of Pokemon so long as they aren't special walls.

bongodude1: My Porygon2 isn't part of my team anymore. My current team consists of Azelf, Heatran, Rotom-w, Scizor, Salamence, Vaporeon.
 
I was using the 2nd team you had put up, and at the bottom of my Post i said to replace Empoleon for him. I happen to like the rotom forms a lot more actually, Zapdos was just a suggestion to replace Empoleon though. ( since hes a bulky specials weeper last I checked )
 
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