Please tell me there are still good team raters on Smogon

[Yamborski]

I was bored and decided to throw together the worst team possible (in terms of synergy) and see how high I could get with absolutely zero attempt to cover my weaknesses or anything. I peaked at #8 before the fact that this is an absolute shit team finally caught up with me and I dropped down to the low 60's after a few losses which set back about an hour of work. It also managed to get to #43 on the PBC ladder without losing a single battle lol (I later got #1, that server is very easy to leaderboard)

This is my favorite team ever because its so bad and because it uses Terakion and LO Empoleon. I don't play very much but when I do I use this team. Banning Blaziken and Drizzle + Swift Swim helped A LOT in not losing.


**THIS IS FOR WIFI. So no Shandera, no Ditto, no Smuglord, no Technician Breloom. (besides that its pretty much the same). Also team preview is on, so I don't have a lead.

@ Life Orb
Lonely
44 Speed / 212 Attack / 252 Special Attack

Boil Over
Aqua Jet
Ice Beam
Grass Knot / HP Fire

Empoleon takes on "generic fast water weak thing" (you know Landlos, Doryuuzu, Mothra etc). It also takes on steel moves and dragons ok (even though most 2HKO him). LO Empoleon is SO GOOD. I can usually just spam Boil Over and burn stuff like Grass types and bulky Waters. I dont know what the last move should be. Its between Grass Knot which 2HKOs Burungeru and OHKOs Quagsire and HP Fire which obviously hits Nattorei and I guess Scizor. Speed EVs outrun Scizor IIRC and the rest into offenses.

Full credit to the set goes to Ciaran from CAL, its definitely an under appreciated set.

@ Life Orb
Timid
252 speed / 252 special attack / 4 hp

Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Focus Blast
Thunder Wave

This thing is so good its ridiculous. Sometimes I can just look at "Team Preview" and see Volotos 6-0s and the game ends there. Other times he checks stuff like Latios or Garchomp. Its a safe switch into Gliscor usually and they can't do much even if I mispredict. Thunder Wave utterly destroys stuff like Mothra or Salamence and keeps "x" from sweeping me if its name isn't Doryuuzu or Scarfchomp / Yachechomp.

@ Life Orb
Jolly / Naive
252 Attk / 252 Speed / 4 Special Attack

Close Combat
Stone Edge
Quick Attack
HP Ice

No one prepares for Terakion because hes so rarely used for some reason but its pretty good. Its moves 2HKO probably 95% of the tier (Skarmory and Hippowdon at 90% or more is pretty much all that lives) and prediction isn't a problem because of team preview. Quick Attack is kinda filler but I never missed not running Swords Dance or Rock Polish and it finishes off Latios, Scizor and Azumarill after Stone Edge or Close Combat. HP Ice seems dumb but its a KO on Gliscor after a close combat.. well usually. It also can KO a Salamence at low enough health (65% I think) without Stone Edge missing.

Im considering running Naive since without Stealth Rocks Gliscor is about 7% damage short of a guaranteed Close Combat + HP Ice KO.

@ Toxic Orb
Adamant
252 speed / 252 attack / 4 hp

Spore
Focus Punch
Seed Bomb
Mach Punch

Pfft who needs Substitute when you're as awesome as me. Spore something then Focus Punch. Thats usually two KOs per game. Good switch in to bulky waters and kind of Nattorei. He dies a LOT to any hit so I might drop the speed EVs for bulk, though I like quick Spores. I also might run effect spore for the ability and use Life Orb since Breloom isn't very bulky and more power to the Focus Punch is always welcome. Another EV spread is 236 HP / 20 Defense / 252 Attack with Toxic Orb. It guarantees survival against +2 Return from Dorry and hits a Toxic Orb number, though thats pretty pointless without Substitute.

@ Choice Band
Adamant
224 HP / 252 Attak / 12 Special Defense / 20 Speed

Bullet Punch
Quick Attack
U-turn
Superpower

U-turns are always nice for breaking subs and keeping the offensive pressure up but 90% of the time Scizor just throws priority at whatever is currently killing me. I tried Pursuit but it was dumb since all the pursuit targets either run HP fire or just 2HKO me with Surf (lati@s). I honestly have no idea what the EVs do, im sure theres a better spread. I have zero good switch ins to dragon moves besides sorta this and kind of Empoleon so maybe more bulk? (please don't just offer Smogon's 4th gen Uber Scizor EV spread.. I know what that is..)

@ Life Orb
Timid
252 Speed / 252 Special Attack

Draco Meteor
Surf / Grass Knot
HP Fire
Psycho Shock

Its hard to resist running Latios since it 2HKOs pretty much everything. Best of all is after a Psycho Shock most Blissey fall to Volotos thunderbolt + Focus Blast so Bliss usually can't wall much. Draco Meteor is the last move I use since thats the first move they usually expect. Generally I spam Psycho Shock or Surf until a Nattorei or something switches in. Team preview makes this really easy, its rare to see Latios not kill something. Grass Knot is something I was looking into to 2HKO most Tyranitar / Burungeru and OHKO stuff like Hippowdon / Quagsire etc AND do some reasonable damage to Suicune and Starmie.


To beat most of my weaknesses I just throw priority moves at them until the problem goes away, or I lose. Usually this works pretty well.

Problems:

Thunderus - uuugh I hate this. Its so fast and its hits SO hard.. I have no good switch ins. My only way of beating it is having my own genie Thunder Wave it or by throwing priority at it.
Landlos - not as bad because I have Breloom and Empoleon but it still hits stupidly hard and can hurt a lot with a scarf set.
Starmie - It outruns everything and OHKOs most of my pokes. This is good reasoning for bulk on Scizor and Breloom.

I was thinking of maybe dropping Thunderus for a Scarf Abomasnow since I love that Pokemon and because it puts huge pressure on other weather teams. It also helps check all my main weaknesses. Losing Thunderus means losing my priority Thunder Wave though and I depend on that a lot. It also gives me a stupid weakness to Fire moves. Maybe I'll drop Scizor for a Specially Defensive Jirachi?

 

[Topher.]

Why run HP Ice on your Terakion when your nature kills special attack? seems a bit dumb, even if it does cover you from gliscors.

 

[Lemonz]

I love your use of empoleon. Its just plain awesome.

Anyways, although I see where youre going w/ Hp ice on terakion, you could switch to thunderus on the expected earthquake and either scare or OHKO gliscor.
The quick attack is also pointless IMO. Terakion is already quite fast, and the main stuff that outspeeds him wont be killed by that quick attack, unless youre in need of a dugtrio counter.

I suggest running rock polish on Terakion so you can somewhat counter opposing thunderus, and to use in place of a priority move.

Although you said that you dont need a sub on Breloom, I highly recomend it. Itll gain a lot of staying power, which in turn will allow it to kill off some would be counters, most notably to kill starmie.

 

[danilo]

your team seems weak to bulky waters if breloom dies

 

[jds24]

On terrakion please don't run HP ice and quick attack. Air Balloon is a gift from gamefreak that changes Terrakion from walled by Gliscor to Gliscor counter. He can force a switch and get +4 in a hurry, then OHKO with stone edge (after SR damage). I do notice that your team doesn't have SR support, I'm not so sure if this works without it.

Over quick attack, you could run taunt. It totally shuts down Skarmory and friends and turns them into set up fodder.

If you want to bait and kill Gliscor, HP ice landlos does it much better. (EdgeQuake, HP Ice, SD/Rock Polish, Naive nature).

 

[Yamborski]

Why run HP Ice on your Terakion when your nature kills special attack? seems a bit dumb, even if it does cover you from gliscors.

Because 5% of the time HP Ice is helpful, but 95% of the time added bulk is. Running Hasty or Naive will not gain me a Gliscor KO.

I love your use of empoleon. Its just plain awesome.

Anyways, although I see where youre going w/ Hp ice on terakion, you could switch to thunderus on the expected earthquake and either scare or OHKO gliscor.

A lot of times I do. In a pinch HP Ice on Terra is good for a 2HKO though.

The quick attack is also pointless IMO. Terakion is already quite fast, and the main stuff that outspeeds him wont be killed by that quick attack, unless youre in need of a dugtrio counter.

I suggest running rock polish on Terakion so you can somewhat counter opposing thunderus, and to use in place of a priority move.

Yeah, Quick Attack is pretty useless a lot of the time. I mean once in a while it saves me from a +1 Volcarona or something but Rock Polish is worth trying.

Although you said that you dont need a sub on Breloom, I highly recomend it. Itll gain a lot of staying power, which in turn will allow it to kill off some would be counters, most notably to kill starmie.

But then I lose one of my coverage moves :(

your team seems weak to bulky waters if breloom dies

I have three water resists. I also have Thundurus who OHKOs virtually every bulky water ever. Scizor and Terrakion has little difficulty U-turning into or 2HKOing most other bulky waters.

 

[AB2]

Hello Yamborski! This seems to be like a very unique and solid team that you have. You have pointed out a few weakensses; however they can be easily fixed up with the proper changes. First of all, you seem to be a bit SD Excadrill weak, particularly to versions that carry X-scissor. Although you can play around it with your priority moves, it runs along the same vein of sweepers such as Landorus which can be concerning. Drizzle teams can an annoying type of team to face especially since your water resists take massive damage from Specs Politoed's Hydro Pump. Your weakness to Thundurus just makes this situation worse as a Nasty Plot Thundurus under the presence of rain has the potential to sweep a lot of your team. There is an easy way to fix these weaknesses by a simple pokemon switch. Your empoleon is pretty much the weakest link of the team at this point. It seems that another bulky water could be in its place so that you could better make use of that slot for checking Thundurus and preparing yourself for drizzle teams. This is why Storm Drain Gastrodon fits perfectly onto this team. It has the ability to check Thundurus with a correct EV investment and can switch into pokemon such as Specs Politoed and take no damage due to storm drain. Gastrodon is a really amazing pokemon for absorbing hits in general as it can hard counter pokemon such as Rotom-W and Starmie which can be very helpful.

Next, fixing your weakenss to some sandstorm 'mons would be very helpful. Once again this can be fixed by a simple shift to a more defensive pokemon. Scizor is the pokemon that should be replaced here as you need a general pokemon to check threats such as Landorus and Excadrill. A wish Jirachi would be very helpful here as it gives you the ability to check the same pokemon that scizor was; however its a better switch in to latios and reuniclus. If you would like another option on Terrakion, I would try running a Balloon on it as its a simple fix that gives you a pseudo check to Excadrill and Landorus. Although you must be cautious, you have other ways of dealing with these threats as well so its not that bad.

Other than that, this team is quite good. Good Luck!

Gastrodon

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Calm 252 HP | 4 SpA | 252 SpD Storm Drain
Scald | Recover | Earth Power | Toxic

Jirachi

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Careful 252 HP | 216 SpD | 40 Spe
Wish | Iron Head | Body Slam | Stealth Rocks

 

[Yamborski]

On terrakion please don't run HP ice and quick attack. Air Balloon is a gift from gamefreak that changes Terrakion from walled by Gliscor to Gliscor counter. He can force a switch and get +4 in a hurry, then OHKO with stone edge (after SR damage).

Or I can just 2HKO it on the obvious switch in with HP Ice. HP Ice is a guaranteed 2HKO even taking into account Poison Heal as long as Gliscor doesn't invest in Special Defense.

I do notice that your team doesn't have SR support, I'm not so sure if this works without it.

Stealth Rocks gets Terrakion a couple important KOs like Stone Edge + Quick Attack on Latios and Close Combat + QA on Azumarill / Scizor but otherwise I don't like the move much. I get most of the same 1-2HKOs with or without it.

Over quick attack, you could run taunt. It totally shuts down Skarmory and friends and turns them into set up fodder.

But Quick Attack is awesome at killing things at ~15% health. It doesn't sound useful but against something like a DD Kingdra or badly damaged "anything" can continue Terakion's sweep.

If you want to bait and kill Gliscor, HP ice landlos does it much better. (EdgeQuake, HP Ice, SD/Rock Polish, Naive nature).

I'm not trying to bait Gliscor I'm trying to let Terrakion sweep. HP Ice is the difference between Gliscor being a hard stop and being 2HKOed.

Hello Yamborski! This seems to be like a very unique and solid team that you have. You have pointed out a few weakensses; however they can be easily fixed up with the proper changes. First of all, you seem to be a bit SD Excadrill weak, particularly to versions that carry X-scissor. Although you can play around it with your priority moves, it runs along the same vein of sweepers such as Landorus which can be concerning. Drizzle teams can an annoying type of team to face especially since your water resists take massive damage from Specs Politoed's Hydro Pump. Your weakness to Thundurus just makes this situation worse as a Nasty Plot Thundurus under the presence of rain has the potential to sweep a lot of your team. There is an easy way to fix these weaknesses by a simple pokemon switch. Your empoleon is pretty much the weakest link of the team at this point. It seems that another bulky water could be in its place so that you could better make use of that slot for checking Thundurus and preparing yourself for drizzle teams. This is why Storm Drain Gastrodon fits perfectly onto this team. It has the ability to check Thundurus with a correct EV investment and can switch into pokemon such as Specs Politoed and take no damage due to storm drain. Gastrodon is a really amazing pokemon for absorbing hits in general as it can hard counter pokemon such as Rotom-W and Starmie which can be very helpful.

Hmm, Gastrodon is an interesting idea. I'll try it. It really does cover a ton of crap I'm weak to. Kind of leaves me dead against Excadrill though.

Maybe Scarf Politoed over Empoleon instead? It would leave me with a reasonable answer to sand teams, offensive force and a good revenge killer for Thundurus / Starmie / Gyarados / whatever. Rain overall benefits my team, barring Latios's HP Fire which I could just drop for Recover (and get the speed point back... fuck other Latios).

Next, fixing your weakenss to some sandstorm 'mons would be very helpful. Once again this can be fixed by a simple shift to a more defensive pokemon. Scizor is the pokemon that should be replaced here as you need a general pokemon to check threats such as Landorus and Excadrill. A wish Jirachi would be very helpful here as it gives you the ability to check the same pokemon that scizor was; however its a better switch in to latios and reuniclus. If you would like another option on Terrakion, I would try running a Balloon on it as its a simple fix that gives you a pseudo check to Excadrill and Landorus. Although you must be cautious, you have other ways of dealing with these threats as well so its not that bad.

I love Wish Jirachi and if I drop Empoleon it would cover my slightly larger Latios weakness. Scizor doesn't do too much besides help against Reunicles and "dragon resist" so I guess Jirachi can work.

If I use Gastrodon I'll probably use a Balloon on Terakion, but otherwise I'd rather avoid it because stupidly high offenses are fun!

Other than that, this team is quite good. Good Luck!

Thank you for the best rate I've ever had on this site. You are almost as good as foolgario!!!!

I'll test stuff tomorrow (or today, in like 20 hours)

Gastrodon > Empoleon
Scarf Politoed > Empoleon
Jirachi > Scizor

 

[Yamborski]

Bump, because its easier than just re-posting.

Gastrodon was cool and is very good overall but I like offensive Pokemon better on this team. Jirachi too, although Paralysis support is cool.

Empoleon is awesome but I think Scarf Politoed is overall more helpful. Rain screws with sand and supports the entire team barring Latios's HP Fire. Rain boost lets it hit harder than Empoleon.

Politoed @ Choice Scarf
252 blah
Timid

Scald
Ice Beam
HP Grass / Focus Blast
Perish Song / Hydro Pump

Cuts apart sand teams and helps slow down Sun. Revenge kills the stupid genies at worst, which is better than Empoleon did.


Superpower on Scizor has been useless. I've used it a grand total of zero times. Pursuit was also useless, maybe something stupid like Bug Bite since U-turn Spam does not OHKO Reunicles, and if it Recovers on the U-turn and follow up turn it can stall Scizor out.

If I go Rain HP Fire on Latios also goes. Recover seems decent here.

Ideas?

 

[DarthChocoboz]

Hey pretty cool team however i can suggest some changes.

Your team isn't that weak to gliscor so HP ice on terrkion isn't neccasary and won't OHKO so i suggest taking this off and adding on swords dance. Adding swords dance to your terrakion will allow you to check all of your threats since a LO +2 Quick attack is gonna hurt anything especially those 3. You might also want to switch empoleon to a specilly defensive set and add SR. You also may want to change scizor since it just looks redundunt to me. Adding a Scarf rachi would keep you synergy and give you a great revenge killer who also checks your threats.

Cool team hope i helped and Good Luck

Empoleon

Empoleon|Leftovers
Calm|252 HP|252 SP DEF|6 SP ATK
Scald|Stealth Rock|Roar|Ice Beam

Jirachi

Jirachi|Choice Scarf
Jolly|252 ATK|252 SPEED|6 SP DEF
U-Turn|Iron Head|Ice Punch|Thunder Punch
You can Run Jolly/Adamant and you could also run Stealth Rock over one of the moves and make them think your support.