VGC Primal Trap

BassoTara

Hey guys!

I've recently started to play VGC and, after some testing, I came up with this team, based on Mega-Gengar. The general stategy is to counter the opposing Primal Kyogre or Primal Groudon by trapping them with the weather disadvantage.

I've had pretty good success with this team, but I feel like I'm missing something. Also, since I almost always lead with Gengar and Liepard, I get countered if the opponent uses Quick Guard.

These are the team details:

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Overheat
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Main sweeper and best choice if the opponent has got a Primal Kyogre or no Primal. I've chosen to put some points in bulk, so he can survive opposing Groudons if he needs to. Not really much to say about him.

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 12 Def / 188 SpA / 4 SpD / 164 Spe
Timid Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout
- Protect

Best choice against Primal Groudon. If I manage to trap the opposing Groudon with my P-Kyogre and Mega-Gengar, he's 99% dead. Also, I use Kyogre as the Dragon Killer, as I really don't have another Ice or Fairy-type move in my team. The EVs are what I found on the VGC Compendium, but I'm open to changes.

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 52 HP / 20 Def / 172 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Disable
- Protect

He's the MVP of the team, as my strategy revolves around trapping enemies when I'm in an advantaged condition. I usually lead with Gengar and Liepard, as I can Protect+Fake Out and then Encore+Disable, denying any sweep from one of the opponent's Pokémon and trapping him. Shadow Bolt and Sludge Bomb are the STABs of choice. Very strong against Xerneas.

Liepard @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Encore
- Role Play

Fake Out and Encore are obvious choice. Foul Play because I felt like I needed some damaging moves, as, if I played Taunt or Swagger, I would have been very vulnerable to Taunts myself. Role Play is the "checkmate" move for when I need to reset the weather condition, allowing my Groudon or Kyogre to sweep without worrying too much about the opposing Primal.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Xerneas counter and second win condition against Kyogre. Also useful for Speed Control with Thunder Wave, but I'm still unsure about that move, as I found that I don't use it very much.

Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Super Fang
- Taunt
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind

I'm really unsure about Crobat in this team. Well, he's good vs Trick Room for his Taunt, he can counter Gale Winds or Prankster with his Quick Guard, and he provides Speed Control with Tailwind, but I feel like Gengar and Liepard are so strong as lead that I don't have the time to use Crobat effectively. Maybe I should use some different stategy against Fake Out users? Crobat + Liepard lead?

Thanks in advance for any comment or suggestion you may have :)
 
Hi BassoTara :)
I really like this team, especially the gengar liepard combo :) if youre unsure about crobat it might be wise to swap liepard out for whimsicott, as it does pretty much everything liepard does with gengar, whilst having the ability to set up prankster tailwind. An example set would be:

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Fake Tears / Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

This set will speed tie with other whimsicott, allowing you to have the best odds to taunt them. Fake tears allows gengar to do massive damage to foes and makes this combo more consistent, so this move choice is up to you
This swap means crobat can be swapped for something like mega salamence, who can also set up tailwind for the late game sweepers (im guessing you save kyogre or groudon in the back). Mega salamence will also improve this teams matchup versus PDon since liepard would not be on the team and forms a good core with your own PDon and provides intimidate support :)

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Tailwind
- Protect

Sample smogon set is pretty good for this meta (20 Atk OHKOs all amoonguss except coba berry), mega salamence would be a much more offensive choice than crobat so its up to your preference of playstyle who you pick

There is a team quite similar to this that ive seen use of that uses xerneas instead of PDon (as well as whimsicott/mega salamence + amoonguss < ferrothorn) if you want to experiment with some other ideas :)
Good luck with the team, if you want me to send you the importable for this other team i could do

Btw gengar whimsicott beats fake out users, double protect first turn, and use encore on the fake out user
 
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Draconid997 said:
Hi BassoTara :)
I really like this team, especially the gengar liepard combo :) if youre unsure about crobat it might be wise to swap liepard out for whimsicott, as it does pretty much everything liepard does with gengar, whilst having the ability to set up prankster tailwind. An example set would be:

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Fake Tears / Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

This set will speed tie with other whimsicott, allowing you to have the best odds to taunt them. Fake tears allows gengar to do massive damage to foes and makes this combo more consistent, so this move choice is up to you
This swap means crobat can be swapped for something like mega salamence, who can also set up tailwind for the late game sweepers (im guessing you save kyogre or groudon in the back). Mega salamence will also improve this teams matchup versus PDon since liepard would not be on the team and forms a good core with your own PDon and provides intimidate support :)

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Tailwind
- Protect

Sample smogon set is pretty good for this meta (20 Atk OHKOs all amoonguss except coba berry), mega salamence would be a much more offensive choice than crobat so its up to your preference of playstyle who you pick

There is a team quite similar to this that ive seen use of that uses xerneas instead of PDon (as well as whimsicott/mega salamence + amoonguss < ferrothorn) if you want to experiment with some other ideas :)
Good luck with the team, if you want me to send you the importable for this other team i could do

Btw gengar whimsicott beats fake out users, double protect first turn, and use encore on the fake out user
Click to expand...

Hi, thank you very much for your suggestions.

I really like the Whimsicott option, I had not considered him before.
However, I don't think I'll add Mega-Salamence: Mega-Gengar is staple in this team, as my main tactic revolves around trapping enemies, so I can't really afford to use another Mega.

The only problem that comes to my mind is that, if I change Liepard, I won't have another Role Play or Skill Swap user to reset the weather condition in case I get a bad switch of a Kyogre vs my Groudon or viceversa. However, seeing that I usually manage to trap the opposing Primal, that shouldn't be an issue, and I think I'll be able to fix it by improving my gameplay.

So, thanks for now, I'll try Whimsicott and I'll post here the results. I'm still looking for a Crobat replacement, as the idea of Mega-Salamence doesn't appeal me very much. I think I'll check my coverage and resistances when I have time, so I can have a better idea of what my team is missing.
 
*possible crobat replacement*

Thundurus and tornadus both learn role play and have access to speed control in thunder wave and tailwind respectively.
Arguably, thundurus would be the better choice on the team since tornadus' most reliable STAB is hurricane, and since youve got PDon...

Sample set:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 36 HP / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot / Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Role Play

Thundurus would support both primals well versus opposing (opposite) primals through use of role play, and grass knot will do quite a bit of damage to POgre

The EV spread is pretty simple, but it minimises recoil from life orb as the HP stat reaches 159 at level 50, fitting into the life orb 'n'th term' of 10n-1, a little more optimal than the standard 4/252/252 spread imo
 
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Okay, I just have some quick comment here. First, you mentioned not liking Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, and I agree that T-Wave Ferro is a little counter productive. I mean, your main, consistent STAB attack is Gyro Ball, which Thunder Wave significantly weakens. I suggest that you run Leech Seed in that slot. To be honest, I feel Leech Seed might actually be Ferrothorn's most important move because it can win games by itself, even 2v1 once it gets up it's Seeds. It's an especially valuable choice against things like opposing Primal Groudon when you achieve weather superiority; neither Ferrothorn nor Primal Groudon an deal all that much damage to the other when Rain is up and the consistent damage and recovery of Leech Seed is invaluable.

Now, Draconid997 mentioned Whimsicott and posted a pretty cookie cutter set. I love Whimsicott as a Pokemon, and I'll post two of my specialized sets here:

Crocodile (Whimsicott) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Encore
- Fake Tears
- Protect

This is the Whimsicott that I used to win Ft. Wayne Regionals this past fall. The set is pretty simple, but the EVs actually have two important points. First, you live Jolly Mega-Kangaskhan Return, which while less common than it used to be is still cool. Second, the spread lacks max speed. The EVs do allow you to outspeed 252 speed boosting nature Thundurs and Tornadus to move before their Taunts, but you don't speed tie with opposing max speed Whimsicotts. Back in 2015 I figured that I wouldn't run into any Whimsicott so it wouldn't be a problem, and I was right. This year Whimsicott is a bit more common, so for the sake of consistency I decided to try another set:

Whimsicott @ Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Tears
- Encore
- Tailwind
- Protect

This Whimsicott set is mostly untested, which is why I included the slightly outdated set above. The idea here is to make use of Whimsicott's surprisingly respectable bulk to abuse Shadow Tag with Mega-Gengar (I've been working on some Gengar/Whimsicott myself). The EVs allow you to always live an Adamant Mega-Kangaskhan Double Edge, with the rest thrown into Special Defense. The Mental Herb allows you to bypass Taunt for a turn and set up a Tailwind, which makes you faster than every Prankster Taunt in the game for the next turn. The lack of Focus Sash might prove to be an issue with Eruption Primal Groudon running around, but I'm really not sure because as I said this hasn't been fully tested. I'm just leaving it here as an option.
 
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