Discussion Profiles Feedback Thread

[TheEver]

Similar to the other focused feedback threads, this thread is meant to house discussion related to how Pokemon profiles are formatted.

The first thing I'm looking for opinions on is full ability descriptions on profiles. More specifically, should players be allowed to list the full descriptions of their Pokemon's abilities as a part of their profiles? Compare these two Starmie profiles to see what I mean:

Patrick the Starmie (No Descriptions)

Patrick (Starmie)
Level: 4 | EXP: --

"No, this is Patrick."

Advanced Techniques:
Dynamax
Terastalization (Tera Type: Normal)

Types:

Abilities: Illuminate / Natural Cure / Analytic
Nature: Adamant (+1 Atk, -1 SpA)

Stats:
HP: 85
Atk: 7 (+)
Def: 6
SpA: 6 (-)
SpD: 6
Spe: 115

Size Class: 2
Weight Class: 4

Moves:
Level 0:
Attract
Avalanche
Confide
Dazzling Gleam
Double Team
Facade
Flash
Flash Cannon
Harden
Ice Beam
Protect
Psychic
Psycho Cut
Round
Signal Beam
Surf
Tackle
Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt
Toxic
Tri Attack
Waterfall

Level 1:
Bubble Beam
Confuse Ray
Cosmic Power
Curse
Hail
Magic Coat
Psybeam
Psywave
Rage
Rain Dance
Rapid Spin
Recycle
Refresh
Snore
Swagger
Swift
Trick
Twister
Water Gun
Water Pulse

Level 2:
Agility
Blizzard
Double-Edge
Dream Eater
Expanding Force
Grass Knot
Hydro Pump
Meteor Beam
Minimize
Nightmare
Recover
Rest
Secret Power
Skull Bash
Take Down
Thunder
Whirlpool
Zap Cannon

Level 3:
Bide
Brine
Dive
Flip Turn
Frustration
Gyro Ball
Headbutt
Icy Wind
Light Screen
Power Gem
Psych Up
Psyshock
Reflect
Return
Rollout
Scald
Spotlight
Telekinesis
Teleport

Level 4:
Ally Switch
Camouflage
Endure
Giga Impact
Gravity
Hidden Power (Fire)
Hyper Beam
Mimic
Natural Gift
Pain Split
Reflect Type
Skill Swap
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Trick Room
Wonder Room

Patrick the Starmie (Full Descriptions)

Patrick (Starmie)
Level: 4 | EXP: --

"No, this is Patrick."

Advanced Techniques:
Dynamax
Terastalization (Tera Type: Normal)

Types:

Abilities:
Illuminate: The Pokemon is naturally luminescent, lighting up the environment for all to see. (This ability can be toggled On or Off. The default is On.) While toggled On: The accuracy of actions is increased by 10. (From any user.)
Natural Cure: The Pokemon has a deep well of natural vigor, or a hardy constitution. When the user leaves play, and at the end of each round: Remove all Major and Minor Status from the user.
Analytic: The Pokemon gathers data on other battlers while they plan their attack. When the user attacks a Pokemon that has already taken a turn in this step: Give that attack a power bonus of two (2).

Nature: Adamant (+1 Atk, -1 SpA)

Stats:
HP: 85
Atk: 7 (+)
Def: 6
SpA: 6 (-)
SpD: 6
Spe: 115

Size Class: 2
Weight Class: 4

Moves:
Level 0:
Attract
Avalanche
Confide
Dazzling Gleam
Double Team
Facade
Flash
Flash Cannon
Harden
Ice Beam
Protect
Psychic
Psycho Cut
Round
Signal Beam
Surf
Tackle
Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt
Toxic
Tri Attack
Waterfall

Level 1:
Bubble Beam
Confuse Ray
Cosmic Power
Curse
Hail
Magic Coat
Psybeam
Psywave
Rage
Rain Dance
Rapid Spin
Recycle
Refresh
Snore
Swagger
Swift
Trick
Twister
Water Gun
Water Pulse

Level 2:
Agility
Blizzard
Double-Edge
Dream Eater
Expanding Force
Grass Knot
Hydro Pump
Meteor Beam
Minimize
Nightmare
Recover
Rest
Secret Power
Skull Bash
Take Down
Thunder
Whirlpool
Zap Cannon

Level 3:
Bide
Brine
Dive
Flip Turn
Frustration
Gyro Ball
Headbutt
Icy Wind
Light Screen
Power Gem
Psych Up
Psyshock
Reflect
Return
Rollout
Scald
Spotlight
Telekinesis
Teleport

Level 4:
Ally Switch
Camouflage
Endure
Giga Impact
Gravity
Hidden Power (Fire)
Hyper Beam
Mimic
Natural Gift
Pain Split
Reflect Type
Skill Swap
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Trick Room
Wonder Room

Some players have noted that having abilities on their profile provides convenience by saving them a trip to the DAT. This is particularly notable for players who frequently play from mobile. Others have noted that, particularly during this time as we're still early into the new generation, abilities are subject to getting their descriptions altered for balance reasons or to fix/clarify things, leaving people with outdated and incorrect descriptions on their profiles.

Please discuss your thoughts on this.

 

[LouisCyphre]

depending on how this thread goes, there's definitely room for a crowdsourced column of short descriptions in the DAT's Ability page, for the profile generator to draw from.

 

[Gemini Taurus]

I personally am against the inclusion of ability descriptions (and while we're at it, type descriptions) in profiles.

I understand the convenience for people that may have difficulty accessing the DAT for whatever reason, however I fear more for the second point than anything else, the potential for incorrect or outdated info remaining in profiles when things change. In a hypothetical situation where player 1 has ability descriptions in their profiles that may be even slightly outdated, and player 2 makes orders assuming that the information in player 1's profiles is correct what is to be done? Should player 1 get a reorder? It was argued on discord that it should be on the ordering player to check for accuracy, but I don't think that's fair at all.

In the end if players are allowed to have ability (or type) descriptions in their profiles I am of the opinion that they should be subject to approval like the rest of a profile. While that may seem obvious, that means no addition of descriptions except in the prize claim thread, otherwise we have potential for issues.

It would also mean that every time an ability description is changed at all, all pokemon with that ability will need to be reapproved before they can be used again, which seems like a bit of a headache. This already is fairly unsatisfactory to me, as its still possible for abilities to change in the middle of a battle, rendering the profile description inaccurate.

Unfortunately I am against self regulation of updating descriptions because of the scenario I mentioned above. If I were player 2 I would assume that if there is an approved profile in a battle, then the information in that profile is correct and order as such. It is unfair to have potentially deceitful descriptions, especially if the player who has the inaccurate descriptions is aware of the changes that have been made to the ability.

Because of all of this I am of the opinion that ability and type descriptions should not be allowed on profiles. The potential inaccuracy as well as approval headache make this more of a hassle than the description is worth in my eyes. If the ability descriptions are allowed however, I am strongly of the opinion that they must be approved as stated above.

I understand that this may be an unsavoury opinion to those who currently find the descriptions helpful, especially mobile players. My best thoughts as a solution would be to recommend that these players keep ability descriptions somewhere on their player profile rather than in the pokemon profiles themselves. That would allow them to use the descriptions effectively as they are now, but prevent (or at least drastically reduce) the potential for inducing confusion on their opponents.

 

[TheEver]

Hello, we’re reigniting this thread.

The topic of profile descriptions has come up again on Discord, so I’d like to take the chance to gather some more opinions on the matter.

The question, and the arguments in favour of each side, remain the same as before: should ability descriptions be allowed on profiles?

I will be transparent: I’m pretty strongly against them at the moment. Profile accuracy is of utmost importance, and such descriptions open too many doors to potential inaccuracies. Doing reapprovals to ensure accuracy any time there is a patch note also sounds like a nightmare.

I’ll be looking to come to a conclusion on this matter by the (BBP) release of Indigo Disk, or whenever the next mass profile reapproval is.

 

[Mowtom]

I don't actually care one way or another, but potential compromise position that I'm porting over from discord: Allowing them but quarantining them to hide tags (possibly with a label that warns they may be inaccurate)

 

[epicdrill]

I don't think ability descriptions should be allowed at all tbh. Even if we take extreme steps to ensure accuracy, like saying that sending in a profile with an inaccurate ability description is an auto loss, this still doesn't fix the issue of what happens if the abilities change during the match. It shouldn't be on the ref to keep ability descriptions provided by players at sendin updated in Tower battles or Realgams and, unless the players are mods, players are unable to update those descriptions on their own. I think profiles being accurate should be the number 1 priority, and if we allow descriptions in profiles I think that causes too many potential accuracy issues.

 

[Hyjack]

A meet-in-the-middle convenience is a (url=)Link to the DAT(/url) where the ability is. This removes the inaccuracy while keeping the convenience of quick-access descriptions.[/url]

 

[cityscapes]

as someone who's had ability descriptions listed on their profile for a few months now, i have had to change 2 ever (keen eye and beast boost), both of which were completely irrelevant to battles. in comparison i've gotten an advantage over people much more often from new patches that weren't yet reflected in the dat. banning ability descriptions also doesn't answer the question of what we do in cases where traits of pokemon change (gaining/losing forme shift, change in technique control cost). i'm not super attached to ability descriptions but i think that people are too eager to pin the problem on specifically them and nothing else.

 

[Ayush_1]

Well, lately I had begun to add abilities description in my Profile (my rest of the profile is probably overdone, approvers probably hate it!!)

I definitely believe the chaos when an ability gets updated is quite nasty. But what I believe, on the flip side, is the fact that the reward we get for it as a player is quite nifty!

What my suggestion is, most of the players won't even bother to have ability descriptions in the profile anyways. While a few have (including me), I definitely believe to prevent any confusions during battles, the refs & the opponents must be obliged to just check the DAT itself, while the description being useful for the user itself just so that they may make strategies without just looking at that DAT. It is now their fault for having wrong information, & I don't find it that punishing tbh (the ref might just inform them about the ability change, if they somehow notice)!!

As Mowtom also suggests to add Spoilers so that players are less likely to notice. Even then, they could just be treated as irrelevant stuff like "Poke-Profiles" & the ref must ignore them as they may be incorrect!!

I would also suggest that since ability description won't have a meaning to refs & have any affect competitively, I feel there's no use of having recheck them by the moderator just to get it updated!!

The complaint of "Profile being accurate" ceases at the place when we just begin considering the ability description competitive (atleast for the opponents & refs)!!

Also, for those who suggest that it is tedious to change it, I agree. It is now completely the person's choice to have it in the profile, & checking the updates frequently. Thus, I'm also against the notion of making them like compulsory. I like the state it is in, & wouldn't appreciate any alterations!!

In short, I am against the prohibition of Ability Description, instead believe in its use to be within the boundaries of user itself!!

 

[Mowtom]

As Mowtom also suggests, they could just be treated as irrelevant stuff like "Poke-Profiles" & the ref must ignore them as they may be incorrect!!

That is not what I suggested. I suggested that they could be forced to be in hide tags to make it less likely that the opposing player reads and is confused by them.

 

[Ayush_1]

That is not what I suggested. I suggested that they could be forced to be in hide tags to make it less likely that the opposing player reads and is confused by them.

I agree, just quoted your verdict to link to my statement that perhaps I worded incorrectly. I'll just write that properly!!!

 

[TheEver]

I will be coming to a decision on descriptions on profiles shortly, as we prepare for another round of profile updates. Please voice any final opinions you have in the next couple of days.