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Punishment on Infernape...
- Thread starter Nameless
- Start date
Well, I guess I mean to say that Infernape may be hard to bring in, but if you bring him in on a predicted Calm Mind or something, couldn't a Jolly CB'ed Infernape OHKO a Phsychic type or something?
I just like the type coverage with Fire/Thunderpunch/Fighting/Dark and for a Dark move Punishment looks like the best bet, though I suppose you could just as easily use Shadow Claw with the extra CH for almost the same type coverage.
But, wouldn't Punishment get +40 (for a 100 base power) to it's base from a Calm Mind? Since CM would be like +1 to SA and another +1 to SD? Or am I reading too much into that?
Edit:
I guess basically I don't like using U-Turn with a CB'ed Infernape and Punishment looks like a pretty good option to me with its potential over U-Turn. I don't really consider Stone Edge to be viable for me, because I tend to have crappy luck with it comes to missing, even with Rock Slides, much less an 80 accuracy.
I just like the type coverage with Fire/Thunderpunch/Fighting/Dark and for a Dark move Punishment looks like the best bet, though I suppose you could just as easily use Shadow Claw with the extra CH for almost the same type coverage.
But, wouldn't Punishment get +40 (for a 100 base power) to it's base from a Calm Mind? Since CM would be like +1 to SA and another +1 to SD? Or am I reading too much into that?
Edit:
I guess basically I don't like using U-Turn with a CB'ed Infernape and Punishment looks like a pretty good option to me with its potential over U-Turn. I don't really consider Stone Edge to be viable for me, because I tend to have crappy luck with it comes to missing, even with Rock Slides, much less an 80 accuracy.
Well thing is when you look at Infernape's multiple options a recovery move at least stands out as something extra. Punishment despite its properties in the end is just another attack to add onto its already saturated and diverse movepool.
The other matter is Punishment can only really be used on either Psychics or setup pokemon both of which Infernape has no place fighting. Part of what makes the monkey great is it hits them hard before they can do anything.
The other matter is Punishment can only really be used on either Psychics or setup pokemon both of which Infernape has no place fighting. Part of what makes the monkey great is it hits them hard before they can do anything.
To be fair, not many will set up on Infernape unless... well, they WANT to die.
Punishment and Shadow Claw both are better then any of his other attacks, STAB Flare Blitz not withstanding, against Ghosts, too. So if you're worried about that, then do you take Shadow Claw for the extra CH, or do you overlook the CH and 10 BP to take Punishment for the potential BP boost that'll likely come in heaps if you actually need it?
Just something to think about and try, I guess.
Well I don't know about you but outside of the special attacks and STAB ones Earthquake, Stone Edge, Thunderpunch, U-Turn are generally stronger and more versatile.
Anyway back on subject it crossed my mind too about Shadow Claw vs Punishment being very similar. But I'd go Punishment if its hit&run but Shadow Claw on Swords Dance.
Just going from what Mekkah mentions about a CM Slowbro I may as well chip in abit. I'm not too familiar with the thing so I just assumed the CMBro EV spread from the Analysis. Here some estimate of Punishment figures on Slowbro if your interested.
This is assuming max damage and also all the current research on Punishment is correct. It also assumes I didn't screw up my calculations but they look pretty okay at first glance.
That's true, but Punishment is a Physical attack, and actually works on CB Infernape, as opposed to having Grass Knot on the same Infernape. That being said, if those figures are at all correct you're going to force a switch.
Let's put it this way, you have out Inferape, and they bring in Slowbro to counter, so instead of switching you use Punishment. They'll probably CM, assuming you're going to switch anyways. So now they'll pretty much have to switch or risk a KO by another Punishment, right?
I'm not saying this is all perfect or anything, I'm just trying to demonstrate in the thread that it's a viable alternate option for a 4th move in a Choice Infernape moveset.
I still don't even know if Shadow Claw isn't still better, with it's improved CH, in the same circumstances as listed above. I'm just trying to look at options vs. type coverage and whatnot.
But then so what if you do force a switch? The only reason they even brought in Slowbro was to get rid of Infernape, and the only reason you used Punishment was to force out Slowbro.
That leaves you locked into Punishment, so if they switch you're pretty much forced to switch as well, and you haven't achieved anything apart from taking SR damage, SS damage and possibly a hit on the way in.
You basically end up countering yourself..
That leaves you locked into Punishment, so if they switch you're pretty much forced to switch as well, and you haven't achieved anything apart from taking SR damage, SS damage and possibly a hit on the way in.
You basically end up countering yourself..
You would go first though, so unless Punishment has a -priority modifier (I don't know if it does or not), the first one wouldn't be boosted at all.
Which means they'll take way more damage than they expected from the second one (thanks to Punishment's obscurity?), leaving them with down to 2% health leftover. If they were going to Slack Off the first one, instead of Surfing and being left at low hp against the replacement, they'll likely be left in OHKO zone and switch or die.
Or, of course, they'll expect another Punishment with boosted power, and switch out fearing death. Piece of cake.
Yeah, the point is though that you don't gain anything from them switching out because now you're stuck on Punishment, and Infernape with no healing, crap defences and no useful resistances is one of the hardest pokes to bring in, meaning you don't want to waste this opportunity basically doing nothing.
EDIT: lol, realised Infernape has a 4x Bug resist, not that does it much good when CBcross does 35-41% to it with Megahorn anyway
EDIT: lol, realised Infernape has a 4x Bug resist, not that does it much good when CBcross does 35-41% to it with Megahorn anyway