Question about PID and Egg soft-resetting

Mario With Lasers

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
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As the title says, I have a doubt that has to do with the PID, and I don't think it's that simple to be posted on the sticky, neither has to do with AA's thread, so...

It' only one PID for a pokémon, and it always returns the same IVs for a pokémon, if I understood correctly. The only possible way to get different IVs is doing breeding, so one to three IVs will be inherited and then the pokémon won't have the same IVs its PID returns, right?

If so, how come a bred pokémon which egg was soft-resetted on a X amount of times can get so many different IV spreads (say, it's PID returns 31/26/30/31/31/31, the parents have 10 Attack IV, but the baby always get huh 11-25 Attack IV)? Does the game, when the old man turns left to the Solaceon road, just fixes the Nature, gender and trait and creates a list of possible PIDs for that combination, and then use the ones listed to generate the Egg? Or is it always the same PID for Eggs and I'm the one who didn't get how it work?

I'm asking this not only for sheer curiosity, but because I want to start a shiny breeding project for myself, and it wouldn't be nice to start my "save before getting a new Egg with the old man, hatch it, repeat if non-shiny or shiny with wrong nature/gender/trait, reset if shiny with crappy IVs but right nature/gender/trait, keep if shiny with good IVs and right nature/gender/trait" plan only to learn later that it isn't even possible to soft-reset for a shiny Egg...
 
From my understanding, PID limits on IV combinations only apply for wild Pokemon and legendaries. Bred Pokemon aren't affected since the parents can override the normal selection, making every possible IV combination available.
 
When the Old Man generates an Egg, he makes a PID

When you pick up the Egg, the IVs are generated

This is why Bred Pokemon cannot be hack checked by pAC - because there is a gap of time between PID and IVs
 
But if it only generated one PID, then for each IV the egg has, there are only three possibilities - that of the mother, that of the father, and that which was randomly chosen by the PID. Obviously, though, this is not the case, as I've resetted an egg before and gotten more than 3 different values for each IV.
 
Toothache said:
From my understanding, PID limits on IV combinations only apply for wild Pokemon and legendaries. Bred Pokemon aren't affected since the parents can override the normal selection, making every possible IV combination available.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, not quite. It determines the PID and IVs normally, but then it overwrites it with the inherited IVs. It still uses the 'regular' limitations of wild Pokemon catching, except it then overwrites some IVs, which makes all combinations possible.
 
But does that mean that if you SR an egg, and the mother has a 25 attack IV, the father has a 31, and the PID would give you a 7, would the only possibilities for that particular egg's attack IV be 25, 31, and 7? Because that hasn't seemed to be the case when I SR my eggs, but possibly I'm not paying enough attention.


EDIT: Since I have a flashcart and I'm bored, I'll test this...

First, I hacked a couple of 31/0/0/0/0/0 parents to put in the daycare (I chose the HP IV as the one to look at because it has a low chance of being passed, and therefore the greatest chance of variation). I put them in the daycare and walked around until they produced an egg, saved in front of the daycare man, and then copied the save file to my computer.

Here is the first SR'ed egg
egg1dd9.jpg


For those of you who can't understand that, it means the egg has a PID of 2918EC2A, and IVs as follows:

0/0/18/0/8/0

So, in this example, the HP IV was passed down from one of the parents.


Time to SR another egg:
egg2bi2.jpg


Same PID. But we already knew this.

However, very different IVs for this one.

23/20/14/5/0/15

So, this egg did not receive its HP IV from either of its parents. If we are to assume that an egg's IVs are to come from either the parents or its PID, then the only two possible options for this Charmander's HP are 23 or 31, since the PID does not change with each soft reset.

However, a third reset gives
egg3fm1.jpg


Again, same PID, but again, different IVs.

5/0/21/12/0/0

HP is 5 this time, which again, neither parent could have passed down. But on the same token, it invalidates the theory that it comes from the PID, because the same PID cannot produce both a 23 and a 5 in the same stat.

So, the only conclusion I can reach from this little test is that the non-inherited IVs of a SR'ed egg are, indeed, completely random, and generated from some event other than the PID at the time of pickup.
 
Here's what people are not understanding.

In a wild Pokemon, the PID and IVs are created in exactly 4 or 5 consecutive RNG calls, so you can map a PID with a set of IVs and nature.

In a bred Pokemon, there are two possibilities.

If you have not soft-reset in between taking the egg and hatching it, there are an undetermined number of RNG calls between the 2 RNG calls that generate the PID and the 2 RNG calls that generate the IVs (and the subsequent 3 or 4 RNG calls that inherit the parents' IVs). That means that you cannot map a PID with an IV anymore.

If you have soft-reset in between taking the egg and hatching it, then the RNG seed was changed in between the PID and the IVs. Hence the IVs automatically cannot correspond to the PID anymore.

This is why you can never write a hack-checker for bred Pokemon that's based on the PID and IV of a Pokemon.
 
So basically if you want a proof of what x-act just said, look one post above his. He beat me to saying exactly what I was going to say by saying it in a much simpler and easier-to-understand way :P
 
X-Act said:
In a wild Pokemon, the PID and IVs are created in exactly 4 or 5 consecutive RNG calls, so you can map a PID with a set of IVs and nature.
Click to expand...

Am I correct in my understanding that the "random" (as in not inherited) IVs of the Pokemon are still subject to the same limitations of wild Pokemon (prior to being overwritten by inherited IVs)?
 
Obi said:
Am I correct in my understanding that the "random" (as in not inherited) IVs of the Pokemon are still subject to the same limitations of wild Pokemon (prior to being overwritten by inherited IVs)?
Click to expand...
They should be. But that's of no consequence, since any combination of IVs with any nature is possible, just based on how lucky you are.

Shelcario said:
So if I'm catching this right, you can SR for a shiny or good IVs pokemon that is in the current egg. Right?
Click to expand...
Not shinyness, because that's a product of the PID, which is set the moment the egg is created. But IVs, yes, that's the point of SRing an egg. Changing the IVs while keeping the nature, gender, and ability the same. Combee, anyone?
 
Depends entirely on how lucky you are. Sometimes with a good set of parents you can get your final within a few hours, or in the case of my [pokemon coming soon], it's taken over 2 weeks of SR'ing (with my final parents, mind you) off and on and I haven't even gotten anything usable.
 
I'm glad that you've given me some good advice as now breeding for a good IV'ed poke is going to be somewhat easy:) So thank you for your help Syberia, lol at the avatar:)
 
Obi said:
Am I correct in my understanding that the "random" (as in not inherited) IVs of the Pokemon are still subject to the same limitations of wild Pokemon (prior to being overwritten by inherited IVs)?
Click to expand...

No. The PID is generated when the egg is created and the IV's when it is picked up, so there is an indeterminate amount of time in between the two.
 
Ha, the chances of a shiny showing up are so low you'd have to use a host of AR codes just to do it. Without any codes you'd have to save before every egg just to check if it's a shiny.
 
SWChill said:
Ha, the chances of a shiny showing up are so low you'd have to use a host of AR codes just to do it. Without any codes you'd have to save before every egg just to check if it's a shiny.
Click to expand...

Exactly. But I won't use any AR codes for this project, I WILL hatch every single egg until I save before a shiny one.

And thank you for the answers, everybody. Looks like the project is really possible to be done :]
 
wait i dont get the shiny part when do i sr for a shiny egg? when the old man walks outside or when i pick up the egg? thanks in advance
 
Arael said:
Exactly. But I won't use any AR codes for this project, I WILL hatch every single egg until I save before a shiny one.

And thank you for the answers, everybody. Looks like the project is really possible to be done :]
Click to expand...
Just watch. It'll be shiny, but with your luck, it'll have the wrong nature/ability :P
 
If you aren't using AR, assuming each SR takes 3 min to generate and hatch (this is a generous assumption), and you spend 8 hours a day doing nothing but SRing, this will take you about 2 months.
 
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